Tehelka Tapes: Modernising Media Morality

``Even though Hindu religion tries very hard to make poor people not complain about their miserable lives by conditioning them to accept it (btw it has worked for thousands of years), newly imported “virtual Christian culture” will not allow poor people to accept it``.

To begin with India was not always a poor country. Until the beginning of the Industrial revolution, China and India were top 2 economies as per the GNP. Even when the British came to India, the trade between England and India was in favor of India to the tune of about 30 million pounds (which would translate to billions of US dollars today).

India became poor because of systematic economic exploitation of the economy by the British (what the Ghaznis and Gauris did pales in comparison to what the British did). For the first time, India had mass starvation,a direct result of uprootment of local artisans due to high taxes by the British. India,instead of being an exporter of finished goods,became an importer of raw materials and a market for finished products from U.K`s mills.

India`s problems continued after independence with stupid economic policies pursued by Nehru. It is wrong to think that India`s poor masses are resigned to fate and accept their plight as Karma. They may rationalise thus but what other choice they have.

I have said in another forum that karma is a much misunderstood concept even by most indians. It by noway means fate but is an affirmation of freewill. Unfortunately such freewill does not exist for most poor people in India who cannot make choices even if they want to, for want of opportunities. Hopefully all this will change with liberalisation.

sridhar

Harimau #59,

Thanks for the story. Shows a different side of you. The side I thought didn`t exist.

Harimau #59,

cool it mister. I am just trying to figure out Farzana`s thought processes. If she considers you a bigot but not urstruly then I am going to hound her for an explanation. That`s all.

I think Urstruly and you are in the same category.

Ref MaheshG #: 58

[Farzana Versey,

Is Harimau a bigot?]

Let me relate a story that happened over a period of 6 years and ended in 1992.

A Kerala Muslim girl was divorced shortly after her marriage to an Indian Muslim living in a Persian Gulf country. This girl happened to live a couple of streets from where a brother of mine lived in Bangalore. The girl and her mother became friends with my mother. When the girl finally got an opportunity to study in the US, my mother gave her my phone number.

The girl calls me up during her summer break because of the connection with my mother and comes to visit me. She goes back to school and eventually off the radar screen as I switch jobs and move twice to other locations.

Fast forward another 6 years. The girl now has an MSEE after her MS in Physics for which she came to the US (all her degrees were in Physics, so she had to do a whole lot of engineering courses) and she is looking for a job. She has targeted the area I live in because there are a lot of electrical engineering companies. She also has a classmate`s sister living in the general area with whom she can stay while looking for a job.

I drive her around for interviews (about 140 miles each roundtrip as I calculate it now between where she was staying and where the companies were located) several times and she lands a job after about 3 weeks. She demurs about taking the job immediately because the commute would be impossible. She wants to find an apartment close to her place of work before she starts the job.

I insist that the girl move into my apartment so as to be reasonably close to work and I move out to a friend`s place. Good thing because 3 days after she starts the job at my insistence, her employer announces a hiring freeze. For the next two weeks, I give her daily rides to and from work while searching for an apartment during the weekend. We finally locate an apartment within walking distance for her and I help her move there and stock up on groceries and stuff. We stay in touch for a year or so and I know the girl now has a green card and has a steady future (as steady as employment in the US would allow).

Pathetic people like you who probably will not lift your little fingers to help another person in need ask arm-chair pontificators like Farzana whether I am a bigot. I am least botherd by your perceptions.

For those Pakistanis who like to condemn Brahmins as the root cause of all evil, I would like you to know that Ayesha`s classmates and best friends who provided her with support, friendship, and assistance during college years and accommodation during her job search were Tamil Brahmin girls who shared neither a native language nor a religion with Ayesha.

Farzana Versey,

I am still waiting for your analysis of the shortocomings of the Indian muslim society that you promised a long time back.

As an aside do you think Urstruly is a bigot? Is Harimau a bigot?

If you don`t want to respond on this board let me know which board your response will be on.

farzana,

perhaps i should have explicitly stated that the only people who are supporters of you EVEN FOR YOUR MOST ABSURD ARGUMENTS are urstruly and ali1. i thought that was understood.

however, i do agree with you (count me as your another supporter if you want) that this discussion is irrelevant.

have a good life and i hope your endeavors in improving the daily-life of your fellow citizens are fruitful.

I thought this board was about Tehelka and the media, so what the heck is wrong with discussing it? If the point of taikonaut’s post (#44) is only to let us know that this is “pseudo intellectual blabbering”, then I think it is a pity. I agree there are other issues. I had in fact raised the question about the need for the corruption to be exposed almost immediately, but that too was looked at with suspicion; at the time some people had said where was the need to bring it up!

I think there has to be a certain level reached in the interactions, and even if I say so myself I think Faruk, Harish and I have maintained that standard on this board. (And incidentally neither has been fully in agreement with me.)

Urstruly (#54):

Can’t get into further trouble by commenting on this one:) However, you need not have addressed it to Hindus. That will be seen as ulterior motive! And the reference to “1 billion moral degenerates” was avoidable.

temporal (#51):

I am equally ‘concerned’. Do you think that old song would be apt here…”Na shikwa hain koi, na koi gila hain, salaamat rahe tu, meri yeh dua hain…”? Do you think the concerned party will find it patronizing?

krashid (#49):

I am glad at least someone’s memory here is not selective. But I know that if I were to thank you, you would be initiated into a hall of shame by the rest. Your fault? That you are a Pakistani and Muslim! So, I shall spare you…but will remember your gestures of support, despite our difference of views on religion, in mind always.

Akash (#48):

[“What concerned is saying is true. Urstruly, Ali1 and if you insist Harimau are the ones who are the most abusive people here on chowk. Beware of those who praise you fulsomely, especially on cyberspace for they have ulterior motives. Why is it that inspite

of all this your heart is full of warmth for the likes of Urstruly and Ali1. You say their heart is in the right place. So is my liver. If these guys are simply misguided youths, how is harimau (not that you said)a bad boy. Or are your good books reserved for your coreligionists. If that is the matter, I will understand.”]

I could have decided to skip this post, especially because of your naughty insinuation that I am full of warmth towards certain individuals because they are my co-religionists. However, since you have brought up the subject of ‘ulterior motives’, I thought I should clarify. If those who occasionally agree with me have such motives, then what about those who needlessly rubbish me? I am not talking about the ones who point out flaws in my argument, but just personal attacks…what do I make of them? As for Urstruly and Ali, the former has often been quite unsparing in his criticism of me (he asked me to stop bashing up Hindus!) and I have repeatedly asked Ali (who, btw, has in fact made the worst comment about me on Chowk yet) to desist from making snide comments about Indians and Hindus. I would like to add that at a time when it was very convenient to make use of their ‘support’, I came out in clear terms to say that I am an Indian and they should not use my situation to get back at my countrymen. If all I wanted were hosannas, would I have even bothered to alienate them? As for other bad boys, they do not let me have a word in at all, and when I do, each one is used against me. Please understand that I do not enjoy these futile battles at all, and to maintain one’s dignity despite is not easy.

concerned (#47):

Kindly see the contradiction in one single post of yours:

[“if you choose to focus on 1 against you and ignore the 10 that were for you, and further, imply that 10 were against you, it can only be called unique.”] …and then…

[“ever wonder why majority of the time your only supporters on chowk happen to be urstruly and ali1?”]

I rest my case. I think this discussion is irrelevant. Okay?

(PS: Sorry about this derailment of your Board, Harish. But as you are witness, I had no control over it.)

Regards,

Farzana

Pardesi #53

You have to read more Islamic history to know the role Mullahs played in the downfall of Islamic empire and keeping the masses in check for the benefit of rulers of their time and in some cases foreign invaders also.

Short 53 years history of Pakistan is sufficient proof of this.

Don`t make me relive another life to see otherwise.

Dear Hindus!

Plz take off your Hindutva Ainuk for a second and try to see and listen what Ms. versey is trying to tell you. She is one single voice of truth, fairness and justice among all of you 1 billion moral degenerates. Try to accept the fact that truth hurts in the begining but in the end it benefits all. Stop the character assassination of this lone crusader and give her the due respect that she rightfully deserves. If it is too hard then at least try to learn from her. Just listen to yourself for once and ask yourself this question: How the bashing of your neighbors will solve your problems. Hasn`t enough harm done already?

dost-mittar, taikonaut, Krashid, Urstruly # various

Upper class elite (i.e., politicians, generals or industrialists) in the sub-continent have no morality. It does not matter whether they are Hindus or Muslims. If they had any morality, they would not pile up money in foreign accounts for their own next 50 generations but rather share some of it with the bhookay-nangay people in their neighborhoods if not cities or whole countries.

Indians were wise in 1947 that they didn’t try to use Hindu (our collective heritage) morality as the foundation for new republic. They are trying hard to graft Christian morality and back filling our own cultural weaknesses while still calling it Indian cultural morality as their base. I think that’s smart and hope it works. There was no other way. This keeps people happy and gives them some pride about their past while new imported value system takes roots.

However, there are two major risks while this great transition goes on: a) If people seriously start believing that their past culture was indeed great (e.g., hindutatva), since every one is paying lip service to it, watch out. This needs to be crushed. B) If the fruits of progress do not reach lower level people who are awakened, there will be backlash. Even though Hindu religion tries very hard to make poor people not complain about their miserable lives by conditioning them to accept it (btw it has worked for thousands of years), newly imported “virtual Christian culture” will not allow poor people to accept it.

Pakistan, in theory at least, does not suffer from this malaise of Karma acceptance. However, sub-continental concept of acceptance of miserable life is ingrained deep in the poor convertees too. Success of Mullahs is exactly for this reason and Urstruly is right on this. The problem you have though is that while problem is correctly pointed out, and used to awaken people, I do not believe that the Mullahs have any blueprint for progressive state machinery or foundation that is more moralistic. Are their any model Islamic states which address downtrodden people’s concerns and focus on making economic pie bigger rather than just shrinking (or even destroying) the pie and then dividing it and therefore no net improvement at all?

Justice in the long run for poor people in India’s model will hopefully come when education reaches down to the lowest levels. Then, they will not be railroaded into accepting their fate. Until then, I will rely upon more Tehlkas and will watch out aggressively against VHS types.

temporal,

[...and my other concern is that your concern is slightly misplaced... ]

how so?

concerned #38,43 &47:

You asked,``farzana, do you just have poor memory or are you always hallucinating?``

I ask you, ``Did you abuse your husband/wife last Tuesday night?``

...since you are avowedly concerned I suspect you will get the drift....

....and speaking of concerns surely there must be other concerns than these concerns regarding the determination of Farzana`s concern that are more pressing on the Concern-scale...I mean sure you have the right to express these concerns...and try as they might our other concerns... we will come to your defence to express your concerns under the freedom of concerns..sorry make that expression...and my other concern is that your concern is slightly misplaced... the lady in question has shown she can take all concerns hurled her way and accept, thank, agree, disagree and hurl back concerns as the concern demands...hopefully...you will forgive me this concerned intrusion on this board...and having expressed my concern...I remain...concernedly temporal:)

Taikonaut #44

Is it some conspiracy by so called elite and their intellectual cronies to keep the fruit to themselves without sharing it with majority of population or actively preventing the majority to be a partner in prosperity. To keep theirs and their progeny`s future safe at the cost of millions and million. And to muffle and muzzle all the voices through bribing so called armed religious zealots.

I don`t know, but I have a feeling that this rationalizing has this aim.

Farzana Warsi and Concerned#

I am seeing with interest the logic presented now by people on this board.

If people`s memory is not selective and short term. They can recall hounding of Farzana Warsi as a pathetic writer with no thoughts of her own. A third grade columnist and whatnot, by these same concerneds, extinguished Sadhnas and the whole lot riding into the same bandwagon.

So the crocodile tears are now everflowing.

I think apology is in order rather than rationalizing the misdeeds.

Who will take this task from the castle high in the air, looking down on other people as insects, is difficult to predict.

Farzana and concerned

What concerned is saying is true. Urstruly, Ali1 and if you insist Harimau are the ones who are the most abusive people here on chowk. Beware of those who praise you fulsomely, especially on cyberspace for they have ulterior motives. Why is it that inspite of all this your heart is full of warmth for the likes of Urstruly and Ali1. You say their heart is in the right place. So is my liver. If these guys are simply misguided youths, how is harimau (not that you said)a bad boy. Or are your good books reserved for your coreligionists. If that is the matter, I will understand.

farzana,

if you choose to focus on 1 against you and ignore the 10 that were for you, and further, imply that 10 were against you, it can only be called unique.

ever wonder why majority of the time your only supporters on chowk happen to be urstruly and ali1?