Hazrate’ Insaan and the Image of God

SR #50

My next question is do you drink.

Pankaj:

Thanks for the explanation (which I have to admit went over my head), and for the link (that didn`t :) )

Eklavya:

I hear you! I think hammed made the point back in #28.

hameed: (re. 48) Gee, and here I was thinking God had created the apes from which we were to alter evolve. :-)

But seriously, you are spot on in #28. The Hebrew story of Adam and Eve, before it was corrupted by brain dead and self-flaggelating Christians, and bought by simplistic Muslims, was a really powerful myth that rivals some of the Greek`s in it`s metahporic value...

If anyone is even remotely interested, I will relate the obviously `real` meaning of it-- on demand.

Not that`s I`d be saying anything radical.. I believe Iqbal also read the story in this very humanistic, if seemingly scandalous way.

adios,

PM

Re: krashid # 42

[``...Are you serious...``]

You bet, I am. Why wouldn`t I be? Do you see any flaw in my line of reasoning?

Re: PM

Thanx for the welcome. I cannot say that I am `back` at the Chowk (though in some sense I never left), if by that you mean that I am ready to dive, head-first, in the Indo-Pak pissing match that Chowk has, unfortunately, turned into.

I`ve been spending most of my time at this location:

http://www.shibumi.org/eoti/index.htm

I am, as they say, `getting a life`.

...SR

PM #38:

``To put it very simply as did my 8 year-old niece: ``Did we evolve from the apes?````

I would make the following points:

No, we did not evolve directly from the apes. Humans and apes evoloved from a common ancestor millions of years ago.

Evolution shows that everything on this planet is intimately connected with each other. The same process that has led to us, and our civilization, is also responsible for the evolution to cats, elephants, dolphins, crocadiles, turtles, pine trees, and koala bears. We are all cousins...and it alone provides a good reason to respect and preserve all living creatures on Earth.

PM,

I agree. Personally, I have no time for the brain-dead argument there is some kind of an identity between science and myth. People who make such claims either have no idea what the scientific method is, or are looking for an excuse to claim what they wish to claim in the first place.

Myths are useful, may even be `sacred` but I wish people won`t confuse them for facts. Our respect for myths (so long as they are not harmful to others) should not depend on whether they can be scientifically verified.

Re; The Mr Mohyuddeen

The article reminds me of a poem by a well known Punjabi poet (Prof Mohan Singh):

“Rubb ik Gunjhal-daar bu-jhaarat, Rubb ik gorakh-dhaNdaa

Kholan la-gi-yaaN pey-ch ais-dey, kaafir ho jaa-ye baNdaa``

(‘GOD’ is a mystery. One who thinks, questions or researches in order to unravel the mystery, becomes an atheist)

``Kaafir honoN dar key jee-veyN, khojoN mool naa khunjeeN

(kyoN-key) laa-ee-lugg momin dey naaloN, khojee kaafir chaNgaa”

The poet’s position is clear in the second stanza:

`One should not stop searching, researching and questioning for the fear of becoming an atheist because a thinking atheist is much better than an unquestioning, blind faith believer`

So Mr Mohyuddeen one is at liberty to choose one or the other.

Re: Mohyuddeen

‘Pardon my ignorance and boldness’

In the absence of a varifiable proof,conviction in the absolute correctness of ones views, usually results from ignorance.

Mr mohyuddeen seems to have no doubt about the existence of God.

PM#44

The problem you state is famous as ``Twin`s Paradox``. Say if A is at rest with respect to a reference frame and B is placed in a reference frame tavelling at a speed close to speed of light ``c`` with respect to A, then B can never return back as this would imply that the direction of speed(velocity vector) of B reversed at some point in time. If the direction of speed changes, it implies accleration of B that means that reference frame B is no more an ``inertial frame`` for which STR is valid. This paradox can be resolved by proposing three reference frames. Read the details on

http://mentock.home.mindspring.com/twins.htm

Sincerely

Hey Sohail!

Welcome back to the chowk...

Your thesis raised a question for me....

ok.. if everything is relative , with no absolute frame of reference (and maybe my undesrstanding of the STR is flawed!), then who/what decides who ages when one approaches speeds about that of light. Why should Einstein`s traveller not age with respect to his townsfolk, since, in relation to him, *they * were the ones travelling at nearly that speed, were they not?

///???///

rgds,

PM

Krashid & Eklavya

Thanks for your responses.

Eklavya, I have no problem with the use of myth to express let us say non-rational truths... but only so long as they are understood as just that -- myths, i.e, stories with a moral or meaning. It is when folks purport that these myths have historical validity that problems are created, such as the incredible practice of teaching creationism and evolution side-by-side. Or needlessly having to pussyfoot around the issue when answering by a curious child. :-)

The myths may even have served as the `only` truth to peoples of past ages, but since the Modern age began 300 or so years ago, we`ve been pretty big on empiricism and objectivity -- at least when we think of the idea of `truth`. We teach our kids to ask `How?`, not `Why?`. No need to tell you which of the two different domains of krashid`s each of those questions relate.

Yet we have people trying to answer the `How` questions with stories that were designed to answer the ``Whys``.

rgds,

PM

SR #37

Are you serious.

Is there any Zionist theory of relativity.

Or is there an Islamic science.

PM #38

As I said science is the existing reality. There is only one way to accept it.

Rationalize religion to conform to the existing reality.

Isn`t it the same thing we do in social phenomenon.

Particularly my reading of Quran, can substantiate theory of evolution.

What is the problem if human evolve from ape or other hominid.

To give an example. In Quran heavenly bodies are desribed as moving in their path. In old times when earth was center of universe people will be rationalizing to conform to that existing reality.

This is a discussion which can go on and on if you wish.

Is it possible that the insanity of Hazraat-e- insane come up with this theory and then exert every possible means ,sane or insane to explain it ?

PM # 38

An interesting question!

Should we say that the domains Krashid refers to are not domains of phenomena but domains of reasoning?

Any phenomenon can fall into religious or scientific `domain` depending on how we try to understand it.

Human evolution then falls into the domain of religion if we see in it the mystery of the divine. It becomes a matter of science if we try to think of it in a scientific deductive way.

If I had a niece, I would say:

Pyari beti, scientist log to aisa hi kahte hain, and mai bhi aisa sochta hoon. Par kuchh log isko bhagwaan ka kamaal bataten hain. Main to aisa nahi sochata.

See, how I will be brainwashing her into the `scientific domain!` LOL

krashid #34:

``And as I said science and religion are two different domains or science can be thought of as one part of religion.``

All very well, but in which domain does, say, the biological origin of man (or life) lie?

To put it very simply as did my 8 year-old niece: ``Did we evolve from the apes?``

More questions later...

rds,

PM

THE ISLAMIC THEORY OF REVERSE RELATIVITY

(A Theory of Space and Time in the light of Islamic tradition.)


I present this primarily for the consideration of those believing Muslims who are also well schooled in science and technology. I have a theory that I humbly share with you. It pertains to our understanding of space and time and attempts to show how the teachings of the Jews and Christians have distorted reality and repressed our Islamic vision.

The Islamic Theory of Reverse Relativity derives its inspiration from the incident of Miraj, when the Holy Prophet (sal-al-lah-ho-al-leh-wa-aale-he-wus-sohab-he-wa-azwaaj-he-wasallum) is supposed to have traveled to the High Heavens. I realize that many Muslims don`t believe it ever happened, at least not in the physical sense. In fact, the Quran only gives a somewhat indirect reference to it. However, many learned Muslims do believe in the incident of Miraj as an actual physical happening or, at least, as a divine vision sent directly from Allah. I do not address those who completely deny the validity of Miraj on the assertion that it was a hallucination or a dream induced by fever while the Holy Prophet (s.a.l.h.a.l.h.w.s.h.w.a.h.w) slept in the chambers of his wife, Ayesha.

The Jewish scientist Einstein proposed a theory that is widely accepted by western scientists. He called it the SPECIAL THEORY of RELATIVITY. Without getting deep into its technical details I`ll come to the point of contention whereby it is obvious that Islamic teaching reject his thesis.

According to that absent-minded German Jew, time inside a frame of reference slows down as the velocity of that frame of reference increases.

To give a plain language example of this theory; let us suppose that an astronaut gets in a spacecraft and shoots away from Earth at, say, half the speed of light. (For simplicity`s sake, and to avoid the liberal Black Sheep’s Ba Ba bleeting, we won`t make him go any faster because their ‘hazrat’ Einstein said that the speed of light cannot be exceeded.) After his successful launch from, say, Cape Canaveral, or better yet, Port Gawadar, life on Earth proceeds normally and we lose contact with his spaceship. However, the space traveler progresses without trouble, makes a long trip around the stars and comes back to Earth after one year (as measured by his own wristwatch and his ship`s onboard instrumentation). When he finally lands back on Earth he notices something very strange. He discovers a time-paradox. While the astronaut thought he had been flying around for only one year, in fact, much longer than one year had passed on Earth.

According to Einstein`s theory of Special Relativity our astronaut will suffer from, what we could call, the ‘Rip van Winkle Effect’. As in the fable of Rip van Winkle, our astronaut also thinks he’s been gone for only a short time while his world has experienced many years. His friends are all dead for years already. His children have aged and their bodies are older than his. (Let us not attempt to calculate exactly how much time this Zionist theory says will have passed on Earth in our above example, but suffice it to say, it is much longer than what the space traveler experienced.)

Notwithstanding the above theoretical example, anyone who has studied the incident of Miraj and believes it to have actually occurred as a physical reality, or even as a vision sent by Allah, this Special Relativity concept is unislamic (and therefore untrue) because quite the reverse happened in the experience of the Holy Prophet (s.a.l.h.a.l.h.w.s.h.w.a.h.w) during Miraj.

According to Islamic teachings we can infer a different conceptual model and form a new theory which is congruous with Islamic tradition. I therefore propose: The Islamic Theory of Reverse Relativity.

According to the Islamic Theory of Reverse Relativity time speeds up inside a frame of reference as the velocity of that frame of reference increases. (Islamic scientist, inshallah, will derive the mathematical proof some day.)

During the Miraj, the Holy Prophet (s.a.l.h.a.l.h.w.s.h.w.a.h.w) went on a long journey to the Sidra-tul-muntaha (the Highest of Heavens) and had an audience with Allah. The first segment of his expedition, though at a lightening speed, was Earth bound and only took him as far as Jerusalem. It was from the Masjid al-Aqsa (The Dome of the Rock for AB and BB CD’s) in Jerusalem that he took off skyward. He changed three modes of transportation en route (Buraak, ruf-ruf & the archangel Gabriel, not to mention a long walk towards the very end when the angel refused to go any further) and had several encounters and adventures along the way. Regardless of the finer details of his celestial odyssey, the point is that when the Holy Prophet (s.a.l.h.a.l.h.w.s.h.w.a.h.w) returned home from across the Galaxies, the chain of his front door knob was still undulating from having been slammed shut when he had left, only moments earlier according to Earth-time. In other words, only the blink of an eye had lapsed here on Earth while the Holy Prophet (s.a.l.h.a.l.h.w.s.h.w.a.h.w) had journeyed long across the Heavens.

This clearly suggests that a long span of time passes at high velocity during space travel while on Earth only a few seconds lapse. This is the basis of the Islamic Theory of Reverse-Relativity.

The Holy Prophet (s.a.l.h.a.l.h.w.s.h.w.a.h.w) experienced, what we could term as, the ‘Gulliver Effect’ which is the exact opposite of the above mentioned ‘Rip van Winkle Effect’. (When Swift’s Gulliver returned home from his travels, he realized that he had hardly been missed because everyone thought that he had only been gone for a very brief moment.) Even the American scientist, Carl Sagan, in his book Contact, painted a similar time paradox scenario. Hollywood’s version of it with Jody Foster has brought this concept of Reverse Relativity home to the non Muslims, even in the ‘You Ass of America’.

Even if one momentarily accepts the assertion of those who say that The Prophet (s.a.l.h.a.l.h.w.s.h.w.a.h.w) didn’t travel physically (but was only given a simulation ride by ‘fast-download’ of the experience into his memory banks), the lesson derived from his vivid recollection is very clear. His God-inspired vision unmistakably identifies the relative incongruence of the two time frames, one of his house on Earth and the other experienced by him during his star trek.

If we believe that his vision came from Allah, then we have to believe in the Islamic Theory of Reverse Relativity.

Sincerely,

Allah’s humble servant,

…SR