The Making of a Successful Marriage

Studebaker, I can`t follow what you are trying to say. BTW, I have left a message for you on YLH`s board on Sher Shah Suri. Can you please answer that?

Would you support the imposition of shariat in India? Simple Yes or no will suffice.

Do you support Uniform Civil Code in India?

Studebaker:

First you mention ``laws of Hinduism``, then say there are no ``hinduism`s laws`` and then go on to say `hindu laws such as sati, dowry`, etc.

Your problem is not articulation. It is anger and muddled thinking. You have been evasive at best and there is no point in continuing this. I thought you may have some genuine grievances that you might want to discuss. Turns out all you are is angry. And from the way you have been evading, I am forced to conclude that you either grew up in a cocoon with only muslims as your neighbors and friends or you`re just another expert from across the border just like your buddy Dr. Jekyll.

All the best and may your anger not consume you. Read Dalistan.org for spiritual solace.

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Studebaker,

What Anamika asking you is whether you support Shariat in a country with more than 15% minorities.

Do you support UCC in India? UCC doesn`t mean imposition of Hindu rules on everybody. UCC has got nothing to do with Hinduism.

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#113 studebaker

After reading all the zigzagging I am confused. What are the problems (economic, political, social) that Indian muslims are facing, in your opinion? And what can be done about it?

You also said, ``BUT I

AM NOT THAT FANATIC TO IMPLEMENT KORAN IN A

MAJORITY HINDU COUNTRY ``. No one was implying that you or other muslims wanted sharia to be imposed in India. That would be a preposterous thing to do. Since you wouldn`t want to live under ``hinduism`s laws`` (I think you mean Uniform Civil Code?) what do you think about implementing shariat in a muslim -majority state with significant minority population (say, 15%)?

Dear Studebaker,

Since we are in the path of knowing each other, let us not digress back. What Anamika and Harimou said, I will just add my two cents in it. I will give you just one example of (trust me,I am not lying a word of it)how the ritualistic aspect of islam is taking a stonghold even within the moderate western educated muslims.

I have two colleagues, one Bangladeshi and another Indian, both muslims, both are brilliant, specially the Indian one. The Indian guy is extremely good in heart. However, he does not mix with his Indian colleagues socially because of his wife` special need, he rather mixes with middle eastern muslims. You got it, his wife wears a complete veil with a slit. I tried to invite them twice in my place, they came, the wife will immediately take a recluse in one of the bed rooms and will never come out in the living room. Obviously, this way it can not go on for long. Although he is such a nice person he never called us back in his home. So the one-way street closed, now it is just Hi and Hello.

Now the Bangladeshi guy who has a beautiful wife who had enjoyed all the freedom is under stress now to wear at least a headdress. The guy used to go out with us for dinner once in a while, now very seldom he goes as he has to check out his food whether that is halal or not. Obviously, there are not too many places where we can go together! The Indian and Bangladehi Muslims had become close friends now, while the Bangladeshi guy and I speak the same language, whereas the Indian is a Gujrati! I wanted both of them to be my friends, one was a natural ally, yet the religion, almighty religion came our way.

I must say, my son and Bangladeshi`s son are the best friends, we are waiting for them to grow up and take charge of their communities, although the little boy (11) has started his ramadan this year.

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#109 studebaker

Two very different issues - quran and the Indian constitution.

One can be altered and the other cannot.

I was just curious as to why you who escaped from the belly of the beast still thought that the constitution (authored by people whose descendents you now despise) was and OK document.

You see, you were using a very broad brush that somehow left out the consitution.

What is clear to me is that the ``hindus`` are not wholly secular but they are not for a theocracy either. Otherwise the BJP would have been able to create and implement a Uniform Civil Code. What is also clear to me is that you want the hindus to take care of the muslims. How about if we all take care of each other or just ourselves?

I come from a place where hindus and muslims interact strongly. There are pockets where muslims are prosperous and pockets where they are very poor. I however see the prosperous muslims becoming more rigid in their observence. 20 years ago, a muslim woman wore a head covering and that`s about it. Now purdahs (tents with a slit for eyes) are becoming very common. What can anyone do if the prosperous muslims who should be role models start withdrawing from the mainstream?

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#103 studebaker



It`s your prerogative to apologize when you feel like it. It`s also your prerogative to write about the plight of muslims and the invidiousness of hindus while seemingly finding the Constitution of India worthwhile (was it delivered by aliens?). But it is totally wrong to label you a traitor for writing what you feel. It only betrays the insecurity of some people.

All the best.

Ref Studebaker #: 103

[My oplogy if i hurt any religous sentiment.]

Thanks for the gesture. However, I have no religious sentiments at all for you or anybody else to offend.

[I admit Indian Constitution has been instrumental in banning Dowry,Sati,Allowed divorce initiated by hindu woman& other unjust but hindu religous edicts

I reads your defence ,mostly they are `they dont happen now``thanx to laws naya kanoon hindu marriage lawsAct child marriage Act.

But irrelevent as it may be in modern india,it does still happen b/c how much any law is enforced or enforceable you can imagine by the traffic laws obeyed on marine drive Mumai.]

It is education that advances the thinking of a people as a whole. However, education is bad for religion because it causes people to start questioning the fundamental beliefs of their and all religions.

How come that the most educated (in the Western tradition) Indians are Brahmins from the southern states of India? Because they have to work extra hard to overcome stringent affirmative action programs. Why is it that they are at the forefront of social revolution today? Because that education also causes them to question their own religion; they can see the injustices (after all, they have paid for it by restrictive quotas in professional education and government jobs) that are caused by divisions in society.

I have had occasion to mention a Tamil Iyer girl who is married to a Muslim colleague. Another Brahmin friend displays a rosary and a picture of Jesus and Mary on the dashboard of his car along with a picture of Hanuman. Would these have happened just 30 years ago? No way!

But what direction are the Muslims taking? The fear of losing Islam seems to grip the Muslim mind in a stranglehold. Whereas Hindu parents have no diffficulty sending their children to the best possible schools regardless of the religious affiliation of the school (the best are of course run by Christian missionaries, with their emphasis on discipline, hard work, Christian prayer, etc.), average Muslims seem willing to completely forego education rather than have their Faith diluted however slightly.

In 1947, India offered to all its citizens an equal opportunity to participate in the nation-building exercise. If Muslims retreat into a shell, they are the ones who will lose. As they lose, they can blame the system, increasingly retreat into their mental as well as physical ghettoes and form the underclass of Indian society. You can see this happening to Hindus too. From being in the forefront of the fight for Independence with leaders like Nehru, Uttar Pradesh is now at the bottom of the ladder and is being derided as a Cow-Belt state. With politics of division playing a big role, Uttar Pradesh and Bihar are condemned to be the hewers of wood and drawers of water in future Indian society. With education taking the front seat, Karnataka, Andhra and Tamil Nadu have surged ahead in not just exporting skilled IT manpower but also in attracting foreign direct investment. The benefits are available to all, no matter what their religion is. Do you see Sikhs, Christians, Dalits, etc., complaining? Every one of them has had to overcome the covert and overt discrimination of the previous generation. Yet, they are making it in today`s India. Why won`t Muslims shake off their apathy? You have already lost a precious 53 years. How many more years will you lose before you wake up? Can you ever catch up?

I said earlier [Hindus want Indians to move forward to the 21st century. Muslims want to regress from about Aurangzeb`s time to 7th century.] This is a prescription for a very deep division in society that will be exploited by politicians of all shades (and unfortunately, by mullahs who will continue to preach to the Faithful that they should withdraw further into a totally Islamic society). The division will be socio-economic; religion will be just an added factor but also the root cause.

Trying to remedy the symptom of Muslim backwardness without trying to understand its causes led to the division of India. Pakistan and India`s Muslims are still trying to remedy the symptom. But there is no thought being given to using the cure which already exists.

PM #105 ``my funny bone had been tickled only by that remark by jazba you quoted in #91``

I see what you mean. I hope for Jazba`s sake that the humor in that line of his was intentional, but it does seem like he was dead serious. I can see a book here waiting to be written: ``Unintentional humor from South Asian movies, newspaper clippings, and internet postings``. It would make the Poles look like geniuses.

re. tahmed #100

tahmed, my funny bone had been tickled only by that remark by jazba you quoted in #91. Now, even you gotta admit that was a scream!

Next thing you know he`ll be saying something like ``stable guys like Urstruly and ...`` :)

rgds,

PM

#91 tahmed321

Come now, you sound acerbic!

Jazbati is hilarious!