The Making of a Successful Marriage

An Excellent Article with great observations and a few ticklers!

PS: Thank God! Chowk Staff has started smelling the roasted vanilla beans for their morning coffee or a cup of strong tea to realize that there are many other things that contribute to the making and breaking of human beings than issues on Kashmir and demolitian of monuments or flowing poetical verses[well, they may assist in the making of human being and to some extent in the breaking of them as well :-) but still I want to leave this category intact. In short, I think there were quite a few informative articles in limelight this week. Practical Approach is always enlightening :-)! Good Selection!!!]

I think the author has analysed the topic well. I would like to point out a couple of things:

Just because most desi marriages do not end in divorce, it does not mean that they are successes. Many failed marriages continue as the wife is dependent on the man for economic reasons or because of the social stigma of divorce. In the US, divorce carries no stigma, women are more financially independent, it is possible for a single mother to raise children without a man... also women are less subservient and more aware of their rights and can more easily walk out of an abusive marriage.

Perhaps, the author needs to define what a successful marriage is. While I am not implying that all marriages in our home countries are flawed, the fact they do not end in divorce is no testament to their success.

People remain together because of social pressures, financial pressures (especially for women) and other reasons. They may be the most miserable, unhappy and unfilled people, harming their children, but they are at least together. Being trapped in a marriage does not mean the marriage is a success, just that the trap is strong.

I would rather say that marriages in both east and west are equally successful or unsuccessful. The only difference is that here, people take active steps to end a dead relationship. Back home, they let it fester.

A succesful marriage is different from a marriage in which people just stay together because they have to, for whatever reasons.

I think the institution of marriage and its sanctity is rather over-rated anyway. *shrugs *

The tone of the article made me think the author approached the topic with a certain naivete. Not only about the realities of life in his ethnic (rather glorified) home, but also of the complexities and day to day life of a marriage. A rather clinical analysis of a layered problem.

Just my two cents. Thanks Nasim, for writing this though. I see a good debate coming on from people.

to author:

You have mentioned ``the statistics`` several times and it might have helped if you had actually put them in your article. Without them, your premise is not any more convincing than numerous desi drawing room conversations on the same topic.

Without a doubt the Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Indian cultures are far more traditional (tradition-bound?) than Western cultures and consequently marriage and family are a much bigger aspect of a traditional lifestyle. This is nothing surprising. Conformity to tradition restricts the individual to a prescribed code of behavior. This can have both positive and negative effects at a societal level.

In the marriage context, people will not divorce as easily in a traditional culture but there is also more tolerance for abusive relationships. At a cultural level, there may be more families staying together but there may be less empowered, productive individuals. Each society has it`s own priorities. For one it may be equal opportunity and empowerment of the individual. For another it may be the continuation of tradition and ritual. Most desis are obviously here because the former was more important to them.

Americans compared to most Western Europeans are much more family-oriented especially in the Mid-west and the South. Stable and strong families aren`t as unusual as many desis who only interact with the culture at work or through TV seem to think. Most desis whose socialization is exclusively with other desis really exist only in a sub-culture and they aren`t really in a position to make sociologist-level generalizations about the entire culture.

Most educated desis have benefited from growing up in stable and loving families and ususally want to give their children the same thing. While it`s very normal for immigrants to complain a bit about the lack of respect for tradition in the US. They must also realize that it is this very non-traditional society that created the opportunities that they capitalized on.

The Jewish-American community is an excellent example of a sub-culture that has managed to preserve their tradition and still produce exceptional individuals. The Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Indian subcultures in the US are still young and even though they have already produced numerous highly successful professionals, they are still struggling with assimilation issues. These issues are very apparent in the second generation who unlike their parents, actually are a part of the culture through school, friends and cultural indoctrination that their parents cannot control.

RE: ``Support System

The availability of a support system is a great contributor to stable marriages. The support system is a network of friends and relatives that can be relied upon in case of any misunderstanding. Both partners can discuss the problem with their respective friends. By discussing the problem alone can put it in a proper perspective. In North America, there is a great emphasis on individual growth and independence. This factor alone prohibits sharing of concerns and aspirations with friends. In the Eastern society, the extended family and friends provide a network that keeps marriages on track. The lack of this support system has started to manifest in the second generation of immigrants.``

Comment: The true value of a support system, especially grandparents and the presence of brothers and sisters living nearby for the married couple is reliable and FREE BABY SITTING SERVICES. The ready availablity of such services helps keep the married couple SANE. The unavailability of such services is enough to drive anyone, anywhere, in any country, quite MAD.

---OMAR

Nasim Hassan

What are your thoughts on Gay Marraiges ?

A few observations:

Divorce rate is increasing in india. This, to a large extent, is due to increasing financial independence of women and the disinclination, in general, to tolerate abusive relationships. A very important factor is also that those who have had an arranged marriage - this includes a large swath of immigrant Indians and Pakistanis - are tradition-bound and are likely to stay together even in an unhappy relationship. This is just my guess. If true, this would be an alternative explanation for the observed correlation between no divorce and similar cultural backgrounds. In other words, since the partners in an arranged marriage are mostly to have come from similar ``cultural backgrounds``, their marriage is also apparently longer lasting (vide supra).

All said, I strenuously disagree that longevity is a sign of a successful marriage.

My head is still spinning from all the topics the author tried to touch upon. I agree with the sentiment of the article, though I disagree with the methods used to derive them. Cultural evolution bears no influence upon the lives that individual, married couples lead.

I`m especially opposed to the idea that religious piety somehow leads to a successful marriage. In fact, the concept of monogamy and fidelity is a function of the love two people possess for each other. Successful marriages are the result of honesty and sincerety. Not some sort of a religious obligation.

(Remember Jimmy Swaggart? Jim Baker? 99% of Catholic priests?)

Personally, I think a more relevant comparison would be the divorce rate among south-asians living in the U.S. versus south-asians living in south-asia. That information, combined with information regarding education, age and income levels, would probably be more insightful.

the institution of marriage only survives when the guys stop being pimps in their bachelor lifes and the gals put a halt to their whorelike characteristics....

Dear Mr Nassim welcome to Chowk. I had real problems with your concluding statement:

``The challenge for our times is to keep the marriage intact``

What about marriages where spouses are unhappy and are bound due to social pressures? (eg. family scorn, financial dependence etc)

Have you ever thought that that maybe a percentage of first generation desi marriages are actually ``unsuccessful``?

May be this is because in some arranged marriages traditionally -women and even men have married due to family coercion and not out of freedom.

I agree with your premise that marriages should be worked on - but not at the liberty of happiness of individuals. Being stuck in an unhappy relationship where spouses are not happy could increase the probability of emotional damage for children and for the people themselves involved in the turmoiled relationship.

Also as a side note humans need companionship. Marriage as an institution should encompass companionship - so gay marriages should be given the okay.

In this day you still have men living with men from San Francisco to Peshawar. The only issue is it is done discreetly and ``in the closet`` in the sub continent.

This article is one of the stupidest bits of drivel that I have read on Chowk. Many other readers have already pointed out that the greater ``success`` rate of desi marriages is due to two simple factors:
1 Social pressures that force unhappy couples to stay together.
2 The lack of financial alternatives for the wife.

If you empower women financially--their own jobs and earning power--they can escape an unhappy marriage easier than if they have no financial alternatives.

Additionally, in the West, the presence of a government provided social safety net means that the woman has an easier time surviving on her own without the husband`s financial assistance. IF the US prohibits women from working AND scraps Social Security and Medicare, guess what, divorces will go down as well.

Chowk staff: where is the censorhip when we need it?

gfm:

``I agree with your premise that marriages should be worked on - but not at the liberty of happiness of individuals. Being stuck in an unhappy relationship where spouses are not happy could increase the probability of emotional damage for children and for the people themselves involved in the turmoiled relationship.``


Excellent Point!

ditto!!!

Fuzair:

Could it be that the writer(he or she) may be synthesizing the results of what he/she has observed ?

I agree with the high level categories identified by the writer and not necessarily with all the intricate details[ticklers] provided under those. But still it has a ``realistic`` tinge to it!

Take it easy!

who can say it with me?

D-R-I-V-E-L

re Fuzair #11:

I agree with your 2 points. The incidence of divorce amongst south Asians is much higher amongst well-off dual working couples who can support themselves in event of a divorce.

I am not so sure about your contention that a saftey net for women in the west encourages divorce. Actually the legal tide is in favor of keeping the families together(at least at the middle-class level). The financial implications of divorce settlements they`ll have to go thru deter a lot of men to stay put in otherwise unhappy marriages.

The whole discussion would be useless without keeping in mind that the reasons for divorce vary by the couple`s social and economic backgrounds. Maybe at the lower strata of society ready availability of medicare and social security does make a difference. At the other end its mostly `irreconcilable differences` that take their toll.

later

-sac

A very important topic that some Chowkies may
not yet be able to relate to (too young).
Thanks for writing this article here.
Divorces in Pakistan are also increasing.
I know many divorced people now who are married
again and into their second ``Desi`` marriages.
A very small number are on their third.

Ras