The Sage

Temporal RE: MAAn say

It was simply beautiful, and very eloquently worded .My compliments to you on such a wonderful piece !

love,

sa :)

Godot

exactly ... !!!

temporal ... i shall turn up in your pigeonhole as soon as my deadlines are taken care off ... meanwhile my parents are enjoying your writing ...

cheers

dL

Re: dL, #34

``who am I?``

Tut tvam asi, says the Upanishads. You are it.

Farzana Versey #46:

[... I object to your assumption that commentaries are made to order....An opinion may not require imagination yet it can create a “storm in the sea of gray cells”. I apply the same standards for poetry as I do for my columns, or vice versa: that is, regurgitate the inner demons, which are invariably lodged in the mind due to external stimuli, overt or covert....A ‘deadline’ discipline is akin to waking up at night to jot down urgent and persistent thoughts that do not leave us... the fresh gush has a different resonance altogether ...]

...well...have already admitted my admiration for you and others who excel at deadline work...and while I take nothing away from those efforts...I think we are talking about two different aspects of writing...first off...will agree that ‘resonance’ at finishing a piece is one of the great reward of writing...and there is no denying that...but I was alluding to ...if I may...that hard to describe literary impact....longevity? freshness? sac’s rawness factor?...(and yes, I agree that is not to be taken as the sole test of any literary effort!)...years ago I read an essay The Onion Eater...unfortunately have forgotten the writer’s name...but the impact of that essay still resonates...years ago JFK was shot dead...or Armstrong landed on moon...or Dr. Bernard did the Aashiqs of the world a grave injustice by actually transplanting somebody’s living throbbing heart...just a random mention of three events that perhaps shaped our lives...NOW...I recall the events...and perhaps vividly in my mind...but...hard pressed as I am...I cannot recall a single newspaper or magazine writer’s news report, article or essay from that time...
...as for MaaN Say...I will take you suggestion and post it also in the Speaker’s Corner...and thanks for liking it...it is a tribute to the resilience and fortitude of all desi mothers...

lve,

t

...

A note for dL: It is perhaps bad manners to pop up when one has not popped in earlier for the relevant submission. But I can smell blood…so, if you will pardon the intrusion…

temporal (# 42):

[“...yes, I find it impossible to write to ‘order’ too...in fact I admire those who are deadline-disciplined...must ask ferz how she does it...even though commentaries and columns may not be ‘creative’ in the same sense as stories or poems...”]

I take it that your reference was to me. Thanks for the ‘admiration’, but I object to your assumption that commentaries are made to order. (I have of course been accused of ‘creativity’ even when I quote solid evidence!) An opinion may not require imagination yet it can create a “storm in the sea of gray cells”. I apply the same standards for poetry as I do for my columns, or vice versa: that is, regurgitate the inner demons, which are invariably lodged in the mind due to external stimuli, overt or covert.

‘Poetic licence’ is available to anyone who chooses to have a unique perspective of the world or themselves. In fact, columns and poems are for me both a form of self-indulgence, and I say so studiedly, though it might appear arrogant. Sensitivity to the environment results in this sort of indiscreet pull – be it the Muse of daydreams or of happenings. Stories might afford quite different parameters, simply because one is camouflaging both intent and execution beneath the garb of anonymity. A ‘deadline’ discipline is akin to waking up at night to jot down urgent and persistent thoughts that do not leave us. You may craft it at leisure, but the fresh gush has a different resonance altogether (which is why I unashamedly confess that for me rawness in writing is its own reward).

Regarding ‘MAAn SAY’: Those dots are pretty awful, bete :) What do you mean that you did not know how to format it? Sorry, but it was hard work, meandering through the maze. And I wish you had got your own Board for this, and if you do not think responses on this Board are proper, that pigeon-hole business will not result in any suitable discussion; try the Speaker’s Corner as an alternative.

BUT…your poem…I will tell you what I told a friend…

I have re-read it for the nth time just a minute ago and I still have goose-bumps. I admit, it is a difficult poem, especially since my proficiency in the language is limited…your notes at the end helped a great deal, but I wanted to go ‘beyond’---- isn’t that what your tribute is about? Isn’t it about more than the fading of the stereotype, the potent imagery of dast-e-hina was superb, its transference from the bride to the complete woman. Nah, even beyond that! I especially liked the structure, like a musical composition….almost built to a crescendo and then that drop to almost a whisper….qubool ker…

Salaams??

Farzana

MAAn SAY

(and to all desi mothers everywhere)

Dast-e-hinaa
...........napaidaar, na paidaar
...........jafakash, jafakaar
...........sabab, se’par
...........sayaa, sayaadaar
...........saya afghun
...........saya-e-baal-e-huma

Dast-e-hinaa
...........nikal kur maktab-e-riwaaj say
...........bana who saiqal-gar-e-zindagi
...........hina-e-jaan-o-munn-e-zindagi
...........hina-e-inquilaab-e-purmeedi
...........hina-e-maujib-e-baghawat
...........hina-e-baghawat-e-murawwij

Dast-e-hinaa
...........naazaan, naaz bardar, naaz parwardah
...........nazook, nazook andaam, nazook khayal
...........bana yeh dast-e-hinaa, daste-e-nazook

Dast-e-nazook
...........moomkin hay lay jaa’ye
...........joostoojoo-e-dast-e-nazook
...........baeed-e-dast-e-hinaa
...........baeed-e-dast-e-kalaam
...........baeed-e-dust-e-insaaN

Dast-e-nazook
...........zindagi, a’jul, bundagi
...........lub, lub-e-goya, labeeb
...........se’r, se’ra, se’rapaa
...........soorkh, soorkhi, soor’kh’ru

Dast-e-nazook
...........az’l say taari jeh’l-e-zoolmut say
...........her lamhay nabard-aazma hona t’ra
...........kya ab’r, kaisah ash’k, kaisi aaNdhi
...........panapna, pyar say pyar ka
...........yaad hay, humaiN yaad hay
...........aye hina-e-jaan-o-munn-e-zindagi
...........pur tashakkur mishgaaN say m’ri
...........ik bosa-e-paa
...........qubool ker

dL:

...the promised poem follows this...just some digression...yeah, what else:)...am still not perfectly satisfied with this...will continue to work at it...in that sense this is still ‘unfinished’... one reason why I have stopped contributing...keep bothering the kind ‘staff’ ...before, during and sometimes post publication...a comma added, a colon deleted...the travails of someone forever looking for that elusive perfection...

...in the InterAct box I do not know how to format this poem properly...hence am resorting with the help of dots to format the lines...just ignore the dots...the glossary...well, am not sure if it is needed...but here it is for what it is worth...


sipardhaal, shield
saya afghun helper
saya-e-baal-e-humahuma is an imaginary bird –mythology-its shadow falling on a mortal makes him the king – lucky!
saiqal-gar-e-zindagisaiqal:burnisihing/polishing – saiqal-gur : one who
polishes, makes mirrors, etc.
kalaamkalam:philosphy/learning/knowledge (not intended as a reference to any holy book)
lub-e-goyaspeaking lips
labeebthe wise/informed one
se’r bhaid, raaz, secret
se’rapaaa poem in which all parts from head to toe are praised
pur tashakkur mishgaaN- -----eye-lids brimming with thanks
bosa-e-paabosa:kiss—paa: feet

lve,

t

PS: for views/abuse use the address from the pigeon hole:)

ah ... sac`s response reminded me of your Desani query. I was not familiar with his Sage but found an extract on some Indiapage the other day ... of course since it was an extract the nuances were completely lost on me but now I shall now go and find the book ...

thanks for mentioning it ...

i popped into your pigeon hole only to realize a stretch of time later that I was spending too much time in it when I`m supposed to be writing a report ... so I shall have to explore on the weekend ...though I must say your day dreaming is rather productive ;)

cheers

dL

dL #39:

...this begins with a digression:)...your ‘Hi’ made me realise in these interacts I never begin with a ‘dear’ or hi-hello...just the monicker and post #...hmmmm...wonder if there is a ms. manners to check on the proper way...khair...

...when I am not day dreaming (working:))...fancy myself as a minor poet...and I understand the ‘aamud’...the inspiration that ‘descends’...but...hurriedly...i will make a distinction between ‘aamud’ and stream of consciousness...more on this some other time?...

...yes, I find it impossible to write to ‘order’ too...in fact I admire those who are deadline-disciplined...must ask ferz how she does it...even though commentaries and columns may not be ‘creative’ in the same sense as stories or poems...

...at times the storm in the sea of gray cells...plays god with ‘thought’ as we sleep...turning, tossing, splashing, submerging and then throwing them up ...ever so causally...don’t know how many possibilities have been lost when I wake up and barely remember that one word or line...for me that is enough to start a chain reaction all over again...lately have been following a sage’s advice...yellow sticky pad, pen and glasses...ever ready by the bedside...and usually the one word, or phrase scribbled in mid sleep is sufficient to recover the whole thought...:)...enough...

....if you visit the dargah @:
http://chowk.com/people/Tools/cc_printhome.cgi?temporal
... in the ‘final’ section a mixed bag of some recent ‘aamud’...

...find this slightly intriguing...”... the desire to write is there but my writing, when I`m not inspired, may still be decent...” and “..Besides the enforced discipline of analytical writing ... seems to be taking its toll...”...more on this later ... if you discover the pigeon hole on the dargah site where I seem to while away time when not day dreaming....

lve,

t

re temporal and dL:

Initial creative efforts are usually inspiring because they break the rules. In case of literary works there is often a strong autobiographical element that spices up the narrative. After the initial success other considerations besides the pure joy and catharsis one has experienced through ones writing enter the picture. There are expectations of living up to ones previous attempt. Monetary considerations may also make an appearance. It is a dfficult riddle to solve.

At a subconcious level though, I believe that every inital ground breaking effort involves the artist imbibing the works of the previous generation and his peers to an appreciable degree. Something along the lines of learning all the rules before one is capable of breaking them. I suspect that those who are able to come to terms with these conflicting desires enjoy longevity in their creative endeavours. Others just fade away as one-hit wonders.

temporal:

Thanks for mentioning Desani. Will look it up. As for raw genius......good point. Will replace it with well-cooked genius :)

later

-sac

with Sadhna`s permission (which I don`t have but hope to be forgiven for the transgression) and lifted off of Panninis `Drive by Baggings` - heres the last peel in the onion ...

``And Lo! says Shankara, eyes bulging, verily there is no escaping Ultimate Self Realization or clueing-in during your cosmic journey. Recognize that sometimes you are the importuned passenger,

sometimes the leaky boat, sometimes you are the travelling and often you are the creek...``

dL

Hi again ... `t`

sorry, i don`t get around to scribbling on chowk as frequently as I might like to - hence the delay. I`ll skip to your question on `baffling` to contend that `it` shouldn`t be baffling! Sure readers are secondary, we`ll forget about them for now, but some people write the way the surrealists used to paint. I read somewhere recently that they would sit in front of their blank canvases and wait for inspiration - so that their paintings tend to be similar to stream of consciousness writing ...

while I`m not comparing myself to Dali or anything you understand, I cannot just `write` for the sake of writing. Once or twice I`ve woken up in the middle of the night with the last two sentences of something I was writing in my dreams floating about ... and much as I would want to hold on to them ... by the time I put pen to paper ... those too would have disappeared.

So yes, the desire to write is there but my writing, when I`m not inspired, may still be decent, but if some of my other work ever makes it to chowk, you will find it to be very different from this one piece.

Besides the enforced discipline of analytical writing ... seems to be taking its toll...

anyway, enough ... i thought that `riyaaz` analogy was rather apt ...

Sac: I`m not sure I`d agree with you about practise making perfect though. Editing, punctuation, grammar can be perfected with practise. But innate writing skills - either you have `em or you don`t - at least within the context of the type of writing apparently being discussing here … I mean Manto and Patras Bukhari, Faiz and Iqbal and Mir Taqi - writing styles are widely disparate of course but there can be no questioning the innate (I think) appreciation of the `power of the word` - and I don`t think you can get that with mere practise?

Apparition: sorry didn`t mean to forget about you there … thanks for the compliment and your analysis - which is apt more or less depending on how many layers you`ve peeled off … of course people read all sorts of things into that little piece- I can see that in retrospect ;-)

cheers (!!)

dL

sac #36:

[...Some as you suggested like to produce perfect(in their estimation) gems. Others try and hone their craft by producing more and more...]
---nothing wrong with honing the craft...and yes, I agree with you practice makes for perfection in some cases...but why inflict that pain on unsuspecting readers?... example?...Begum Akhtar used to do ‘reyaaz’ for several hours... as does one of her shaagird Rekha Surya...that is ‘honing’ their skills...no studio secretly recorded their ‘reyaaz’ and cut discs to dump on unsuspecting fans...

...but then there is a flip side to this too...in the cases of past maestros I suppose we should be grateful...ravages of times...changes in tastes...etc...bring neglected works to surface and ... we read, watch, listen with renewed interest...

[...People are still waiting for something by the
creator of The Catcher in the Rye. Maybe Salinger just isn`t capable of repeating his masterpiece. Who knows...]
---yeah this is interesting...conjectures and all... have you read Desani’s All About H. Hatter?... he was again a one book wonder..... died last year in Texas somewhere...he did write essays or features for a while for the Illustrated Weekly of India...don’t know if any of that survived...

[...I would agree with you that in general practice makes perfect however raw genius is more often visible in initial attempts than in latter ones....]
---yaar ‘raw’ can only be applied for initial forays...any subsequent efforts will not be ‘raw’ any more:)


PM #37:

As for that ‘mian’ bit.... will share the relevant portion of #22 on Panini’s board!

...kaam azz kum aap tou angrezi ka khayal rakhaiN!...

...do you mean to say MOST folks live lives of quite desperation?...find it hard to believe...

rgds

t

temporal miaN :), re. #35

Interesting musings, as always. Just wanted to comment of the `gentle folks` vs. ones battling inner demons.. Who was it that said that most men live lives of quiet desperation? Delve deep enough and I think, but for a few incurably optimistic folks, that is quite a valid asertion. Whaddaya think? Eh?

regards,

P.

re temporal #35:

The quality vs. quantity debate is an iteresting one. Your example of Patras is a good one. His humorous pieces(though heavily influenced by western literature) are in a league of their own. Artists approach their work in diferent ways. Some as you suggested like to produce perfect(in their estimation) gems. Others try and hone their craft by producing more and more. There are examples of both approaches producing fruitful results. Mozart has written more forgettable music than most composers combined and yet some of his works have rendered him immortal. People are still waiting for something by the creator of The Catcher in the Rye. Maybe Salinger just isn`t capable of repeating his masterpiece. Who knows.

I would agree with you that in general practice makes perfect however raw genius is more often visible in initial attempts than in latter ones. The sad part is that some of us still keep trying when we know its just not going to happen. Hence the enormous number of music and English majors running amok(and ending up as web-designers!!).

later

-sac

dL:

…when I mentioned a novice, average and above average writer you wrote…[… if the writer writes once in a very blue moon … in a certain kind of way … and cannot indulge either her own desire to write or the readers desire to read … how would you decide whether you were dealing with a novice or not …]

…I should have said ‘serious’ novice, average…..

…I don’t know…there is not a simple answer…I will plod on to attempt a reply…once in a blue moon could be once a year?…and say over twenty years she has twenty creative pieces…twenty good efforts…on the other hand… the total may be four or five?…secondly…we assume that they are published…otherwise how is one to know?…example time…

…in Urdu humour…Patras Bukhari has earned a place…try to find his published works…one book and the odd articles…Ghalib…one kulliyaat…the fellow spent greater portion of his life ‘rejecting’ and editing his poetry!….Faiz…five or seven thin books spanning 40/50 years…now….don’t want to get into trouble.. so help me….go into any book store and see four five thick volumes of poetry by an ‘artiste’ barely in their 40s…and there are several of them…

..so other than the obvious…..quality vs. quantity…it is apparent that they (the former) were serious about their craft…or at least not non-flippant…highly selective… and driven….now...if that ‘blue-moon’ writer is driven...then we can judge him or her differently… we must…and if not…then it is difficult to discuss…

…now I come to a slightly baffling part for me… I fail to understand why the writer fails to’indulge’ in her desire to write…(and this is far more important – the reader’s desire for a good read are secondary)…it could be writer’s block, lack of time, inspiration, inclination, incentive…could be almost anything under the moon…

…why is it baffling?…because as I understand...if the writer is a genuine, serious writer…a new creative piece would torment him/her to give birth to it…the intensity of this pain is not to be under-estimated…

…and now to the last part...how would I decide?…well, who am I to decide?…the work will speak for itself.

[… not every one was a willing pilgrim … or were they …]

---is there ever a ‘willing’ pilgrim?…did we have a choice?… to grace this world or not to?…..that settles it then?…

[…Maybe its best to live life as the ever optimistic ‘gentle folk’ … at least you live in hope rather than in despair …]

---NO…no… that gentle folk is not an optimist…would rather live with intuitive despair than be lulled by false sense of security… but that is an individual’s thinking…agree with you… rather be broad-sided :) …better than that attribute…perhaps unfairly named after that sage Hippocrates: (circa 460-377 BC)…

…what no cheers?:)


lve,

t