The Winds of Change

tahmed321 #294
Sigh. When you find a poster called mithuna ask him to explain better if you donot get it this time.
Someone noticed that it is human nature that the same attitude is called something different when applied to oneself versus to a second person versus to someone absent. So for example what one calls firmness of principle in oneself, one is highly likely to call bigotry in another.

As in(from inexact memory):
I am firm, you are obstinate, he is a pigheaded fool.
I have about me the scent of the mysterious, you rather overdo it, she stinks.

Here is a reference to help you(with the IQ and all)
http://bemorecreative.com/one/275.htm

So here is how I paraphrased your statement calling me a bigot:
``I stand firm on principle, you are a bigot. My opinion is informed yours is blind prejudice. You starve your people, I didnot send an orphan to war.``

Sigh again. Think whether anyone else would have provided you references to help insult them?

btw, if people invite others to join jihad against `Hindus` on chowk as people like Urstruly have done on more than one occasion, better think twice before calling it bigotry if someone gives him a fitting reply because, who knows, many Pakistanis may oneday very soon find themselves on the same side of the jihadi argument that `bigotted` Indians are on today.

hobbyty # 289

Newspapers (specially Indians ones) are all full of this sad story.

*sigh *

If only parents realized that their children are owned by the future not by the past.

sadna #290 You accuse me here of starving people and of sending orphans to war. In other posts you make these accusations against not one but all 135 million Pakistanis.

Brilliant. I think the IQ meter just fell through the floor.

Reply #: 286

krashid,

Hey, did i say discrimination does not exist in India. That would be far-fetched. I am only saying that secularism,with all its imperfections, is alive and thriving. We cannot be like Turkey where the moment secularism is threatened the Army moves in to correct the situation. Hence we have the likes of Bal Thackeray who we tolerate. In secular beliefs even extreme view points find expression and one need to tolerate them even while disagreeing with them. Poor man in India is discriminated for the simple reason that he is powerless against forces that are arrayed against him. These poor men belong to all religions. Finally,we will let the common man speak through elections as they have done in the past. If BJP thought it can get away with communal politics,the recent state election results must have a sobering effect on its leaders.

sridhar

Re:Musharraf`s visit

This one is a gem. Note that Irfan Hussain says what some of us have been saying in this forum ie clear the atmosphere before thinking of solution to Kashmir problem. I am only posting the relevant para from his column in Dawn:

``In his invitation to General Musharraf, Mr Vajpayee talks about the need to resume the ``composite dialogue`` between the two countries. This makes sense: to focus exclusively on Kashmir, as many Pakistani politicians and columnists would like, is to ensure the failure of the talks in advance. The issue is too raw and sensitive to be solved overnight. There must be a cooling off period in which the killing stops and the hysteria subsides for any breakthrough to occur. Kashmir can be put on the back burner while mundane matters like trade and travel are sorted out. After all, if we have been unable to resolve this thorny issue in all these years, it can surely wait a bit longer. What should take priority is to reach an understanding on matters that are not so bitterly disputed so that we can change the atmospheres in the subcontinent, replacing accusations and artillery shells with discourse and reason.``

sridhar

The Friday Times, www.thefridaytimes.com, Jun 1-7 2001
Opinion
Pervez Musharraf should come to the help of Pervez Masih & Yunus Sheikh
Khaled Ahmed

``...Pervez Masih also makes monetary contribution to Lashkar-e-Tayba in support of the jehad in Kashmir...``

Poor guy, even such an insurance policy didnot pay off. But, no doubt Khaled Ahmed is a bigot bent upon stereotyping Pakistanis.

tahmed321 #282
Whatever. I stand firm on principle, you are a bigot. My opinion is informed yours is blind prejudice. You starve your people, I didnot send an orphan to war.
You keep yourself happy doing classifications but kindly do me the favor of realising that I am not in your congregation and that I have the decency to keep my personal opinion of you to myself.

narain #278 Agreed. I think there are some people on chowk who would benefit from reading your post every night until it finally penetrates their heads.

sadna: when you stereotype any group of people, as you routinely do with Pakistanis, then you are a bigot. And I agree that after our last interaction I realized that trying to reason things with you was as futile as trying to reason things with urstruly or jay. I feel sorry for you people.

Can anyone please help shed some light on what has happened in Nepal?

Why did this happen? what is behind this gruesome acts?

KRashid,

{{{Conscious? What conscious? What is conscious? Is it Jehadi? Is it Islamic? Is it Pakistani? Is it coming out of pen of Urstruly?

It must be neceesarily wrong or at least any thing coming out of pen of Pakistani and Muslim cannot awaken it for the simple reason. They should not succed in their purpose.:-).}}}

OK. Now could you kindly do this illiterate gawar the courtesy of explaining what the F you are trying to say ?; In simple English please.

hobbytv,

{{Money man/god/ Prick, Penis God , Terrorist!

A bunch of closet cases.}}

You got that right! And we are the cream of the desi intellectual crop:) Since it is our fate to see our ex-countries go up in radioactive vapor; might as well engage in black humor.

Rsridhar#281

I agree that this letter has laid to rest all the myths about discrimination of minorities in India once and for all.

I have read that Ramesh Kumar lives in a house and lives a good life.

This certainly puts the myth about people in India living on streets and hungry to rest forever.

I have also read that Shabnam Romani is a work woman who earns living straight.

This certainly should put the myth that there is a trade of women in India, to rest forever.

As I have mentioned on my post to TAhmed regarding nonIQ RSridhar. You are just strengthening my belief instead of breaking the myth.

Hobbyty #

That is the very interesting book, and I am still reading it. The primary premise according to me is economic power is the back bone of political power in a country like us. In this situation how the majority of masses can achieve their rights and have a bright future?

If you think a strong center will bypass the basic law of relation between economic and political power? I don`t think it can happen.

The important thing is how the rights of people are safeguarded.

I have no doubt regarding the sensibility of local solution to local problems in the form of local bodies. But that is only related to local problems. It can be thought of as a non political process. (Although I think it should ieally be done with involvement of political parties so that there is someone answerable for actions of locally elected people)

But this in no way is going to solve the political problems facing Pakistan.

One of the reason of reservation of all the political parties on local bodies is that it is presented as a panacea for our ills. While without political involvement it is going to create havoc. Two recent incidences will be an eye opener. Two days back a recently elected official along with his goons paraded naked a lady in street. How are you going to stop these incidences or nexus of police, with local influentials?.

For sure without check by organized political forces, our beareucracy both civil and military both at central and local levels will be out of hand.

It is a question that for how long people will continue to demonstrate and sacrifice so that at least their lot increases?

I see a sense of doom and gloom.

Recently the people of beareucracy both civil and military are migrating to foreign countries. It only shows that people have no faith in the future of our country?

Like leperous mangy dogs the hindus keep visiting muslim precincts in the vain hope that their former masters might throw a morsel at them.

No wonder that the 1000 year slavery itch has entered their DNAs and an evolutionary overhaul is in order.

A hindu?The last remaining superstition on earth.They have nowhere to go but to find refuge in secularism/socialism.Such reincarnations are part of their karma cycle.

Of course,the smart ones from amongst them fast forward their lives into Islam.Such census is seldom revealed in a secular country like India.

Does anybody know the reason why muslims do not visit Indoo sites but the ragged-tagged turmeric- oozing hindus hover around muslim sites? An urge to return to slavery,perhaps.

wassalaam

anarayan #

Without sarcasm.

Your post suggest the conclusion that not only Muslims but Hindus were also raping the Hindu women.

Re: secularism and muslims in India.

To those who pooh pooh secularism in India,here is what an Indian muslim feels

``An Indian Muslim

Sir,

I write with reference to Muhammad Akbar’s letter “My country II” (TFT May 18 — 24), a reply to “My country” (TFT April 13 — 19) by K. Ravindranath. Mr. Akbar asks Mr. Ravindranath when he last visited India, and asks him to get his facts straight before making statements about his country. I would like to ask Mr. Akbar if he had ever visited India before he wrote that letter. I suggest that he does.

I am an Indian Muslim, and I study in one of Mumbai’s most prestigious institutions. It is government-controlled, but I have had no problem receiving admission because it is purely merit-based. I have many Hindu and Sikh friends. For them, my religion is irrelevant.

India may not be a perfect secular country, but then again, Pakistan is not a perfect Islamic state: in a Muslim homeland, Muslims are not at peace with each other. You too have sectarian violence.

Farzana Dan. Mumbai.``

sridhar