Little White Pills

soysauce #46 Actually, I think Musharaff is quite a likable fellow - he was a hit even in India when he was there, remember? The Americans like him since he comes across as straight talking and good humored and does not take himself too seriously as many of our South Asian stuffed shirts (take our man Sattar e.g., or some of the Indian politicians) come across.

I agree though that a nation needs a dictator like a man needs a hole in the head - except sometimes a hole in the head is needed to get rid of some tumors. But even today, reading the press is quite free in Pakistan and Musharaff and the army are openly criticized and the cruel punishments that Zia introduced to intimidate opposition (unsuccessfully) are nowhere to be seen in Pakistan. The fact is that Pakistan simply cannot be ruled like a banana republic anymore, and Musharaff knows that while Zia did not and that is why Zia failed but with Musharaff one has hopes.

Re AnNy

You have homosexual friends who you know and love. What would happen if they decide to turn heterosexual? In my opinion ....... chaos.

Homosexuality is pretty much genetic.

I personally know people who refused to come out of their closet and ended up marrying straight women and caused nothing but misery to everyone around them. What would have been a better choice?

It is true that this concept is neither accepted by our religion nor our society but each person has his or her own special relationship with God. One doesn’t have to pray five times a day to be a good Muslim ........ similarly one doesn’t have to be straight to be one.

Re Bijli # 34

It is the Government of Pakistan that requires the consent of the woman and not Islam. Polygamy hurts. Ask women who go through it.

If the sole aim of a relationship is to produce kids then also condemn those who don’t marry or refuse to have kids just as vehemently.

binifer # 53

So that`s what it is all about: filing princess anNyz nails...

And here I was, thinking there were some deeper philosophical questions to be probed!!

LOL

Regards.

scout, anny,

Religiosity is not bigotry. And bigotry is never religiosity.

God, by His nature, can not be a bigot. If we read His word carefully, we will find love and compassion; not hatred and division. He embraces mankind, not repels its parts.

It is we who project our own prejudices, our own hatreds into His work; and then defend our black souls misusing the light of His Holy word.

Very few are given the wisdom to read His word with clean eyes, eyes not blinkered with past societal prejudices. These people can follow the Word closely, because they see in God`s work compassion and unity, not division and injustice.

Truly religious people who can rise clear above bigotry are an exceptionally rare and blessed breed. Their hearts are large enough to be completely loving and friendly with those whose doctrines they may not entirely agree with.

Just as we would not mind a gay person being friendly with a religious person even when the former does not accept the latter`s doctrines, the reverse ought to be true as well - we should respect a religious person`s freedom to disapprove of someone else`s lifestyle while still loving them to `pieces,` as anNy puts it.

We the less fortunate, those not blessed with as strong a faith, can only pray (if He still listens to evil men like us:)) that we have loving and giving men and women of faith, and not the far-more-common hatemongers pretending to be keepers of faith.

There is a very fine line between faith and bigotry, and we ought to be glad that there are some exceptional people of faith who clearly see the difference.

Best.

In reply to ``Unsophisticatus_Maximus``

If you have read Quran, the word ``lewdness``

is Zalamoon. Which indicates to cruelty.

Cruelty can be something that is forced upon.

eg. Rape, marital rape etc.

God also says that look at nature for your

answers. Scientifically it is a proven fact some

animals indulge in homosexual acts.

eg. Penguins, giraffes etc.

You can take the gist of the ayats or you can

be lakeer kaye fakir.

Don`t quote Quran to spread hate. If you feel

differently about things use apathy and

compassion. The basics of Quran.

anNy #51,

Hmmm, I can understand your stance. About alcohol and drugs, they inevitably cause harm. I dont` think you can say the same about homosexuality though.

Reply #: 48

scout......anNy

just one other thing, if your stance is based solely upon religion, then dont` be a hypocrite to your gay friends, tell them what you really think.]

Scouty,

No body is saying maltreatment of gay ,or drunkard,or fornicator,or any sinful act.You dont have rights or control over other ppl. `s choice atleast in this country ,you would not be endorsing or encouraging or supporting it by being civil with them.Do you tell all new acquentences,that you are beefeater,5 times prayer wala,haj performing ,possibly polygamy practicing,alcohol shunning,hijab wearing .....on the first day??

Reply #: 49

Vaneeza.......Re: Bijli #30

I never meant endorsing ``honour Killing`` literally.Only to the extent that infedility,illicit relation,& unfaithfullness ,BOTH for men & women is a crime in islamic jurisprudence .Although not agreeing with death penalty for it spl. in modern times of Gay & lesbian,we already are loose in our strictness.

#45

AnNy,

Thank you for your view regarding imposition of western values ,no matter how irrartional they may seem

``.....i too feel that a whole majority of people so thand with gay physical relations are this way because of the west and its general acceptance of this phenomenon...its hard accepting a women who wants to cover her head...paranoid jehadi babes then..but its all good when one man wants to bang another... ``

Iam not saying that eastern society ,is all good,& we have to improve foeticide,bride burning,dowry,inequality of castism,as in India ,too.Iam not for hatred either,i would never support ,hatred violence against gay,or prostitutes or drunk ,or druggy ,b/c we as ordinary ppl. are not assigned that responsibility.But we have to know for our self where we stand.

anNy:

{disclaimer: this is in no way to be insulting towards the gays i associate with (and who read chowk;))..youre complete dolls:0)}

haan na, who`ll shape our eyebrows without you beejoo and joetoo and hashee......and christ who`ll file princess anNyz nails then if we were to insult you `dolls`?

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Scout,Zahra,Vaneeza & so many others.

Even the mentioning of such evils & vulgarities removes the shamefulness associated with them & somehow gives them credence.

An Amish gentleman once taught me that if something sinful & vulgar is committed by someone it is better to handle the matter in a hushed but with firm societal retribution.Making it a common-place happening gives it the semblance of a common occurence.

Rishvat in Pakistan has instead of a stigma become an honour badge---precisely because of a wistfulness associated with the ``corruption``.

Once the western thugs change their Qibla veryone will follow.Some folks acquire eduction but NEVER learning(which one can only acquire in ones` mother tongue.)

``Mein khayal hooN kisi aur kaa,mujhay sochtaa koi aur hai.``

Ubaidullah Aleem?

wassalaam

Scout apa

((``bachi, ur disclaimer and ur post do not match. if u want to love everyone, love their lifestyles as well (as long as they are not harming anyone). i for one have never heard of violence perpetrated by homosexuals. maybe a case here and there. but in most cases, they`ve made a big difference to society...just one other thing, if your stance is based solely upon religion, then dont` be a hypocrite to your gay friends, tell them what you really think.``))

all my gay friends know how i feel about their `lifestyle`..and because they respect my disgust as i do their ways, they dont indulge in any blatant displays of affection in front of me...:)

((``as for my stance on it, i don`t believe religion should be followed word for word, blindly.``))

i follow my religion word for word as best as i can..not `blindly` since i research, think about it and when satisfied go ahead with it...99 times out of 100 its satisfactory...my religion is in my opinion the right religion and i will not make excuses for it for anything, anybody or any misplaced concepts of acceptance as is the case with gays and lesbions who are all of a sudden as normal to acceptance for the world as is tweety to me...if prohpet luts kaum was destroyed for such a reason a kabillion years ago and the warning given to muslims is present in the quran, thats enough for me...i realize how un borgeise this is and overwhelmingly contrary to popular sentiments but thats the way i feel..no excuses

in no way do i hold my nonstraight friends in contemp nor have i attempted to insult them here on this board scouty...i love them to pieces ...but i feel it is wrong...just like i tell friends who indulge in excessive drinking and drugs its wrong, i tell friends who indulge in this kind of behaviour that its wrong too...

love,

anNy

YLH:

Please consider Zahra & Scouts` advice.

It might be ok to ``discuss`` as an intellectual exercise or just to prove a point but it does not & never will alter the prevailing objective conditions.

``Khirad kee ghuthhian suljhha chukaa mein

miray maulaa mujhay sahib junoon kar.``

A L L A M A Iqbal

What in your opinion would be the practical way to get us out of the morass we have got ourselves in.Perhaps you might have a greater job at hand than even the quaid could handle.As you know it is easy to make an omlette but quite another to reverse the process.

Or start with new eggs altogether?

``Yeh daur apnay Braheem kee talash mein hai

Sanam kadah hai jehaan---La Ilaha Il Allah.``

A L L A M A Iqbal

wassalaam

Re: Bijli #30

I completely agree with you bijli , its amazing how we are so dam/n conditioned that anything the west says make so much sense. Its a sign of how we, Asians, in my opinion, are still mentally colonized. Its sad that the slavery our fore fathers fought so hard to free us from, we now embrace ourselves so willingly.

Perhaps its time we took a stand for our own ideas(the right ones, which in my opinion don`t include honor killings! :P) and perhaps its time I had the right to express my discomfort with something thats alien to my religion and culture (although you won`t generally find me rooting for culture but thats an altogether different thing)

without being labelled as biased etc.

Wassalam

anNy,

just one other thing, if your stance is based solely upon religion, then dont` be a hypocrite to your gay friends, tell them what you really think.

as for my stance on it, i don`t believe religion should be followed word for word, blindly.

anNy #45,

bachi, ur disclaimer and ur post do not match. if u want to love everyone, love their lifestyles as well (as long as they are not harming anyone). i for one have never heard of violence perpetrated by homosexuals. maybe a case here and there.

but in most cases, they`ve made a big difference to society.