What I Want Pakistan’s CEO To Do

The first step? There ares still many sane people around..

From The Hindu newspaper today

`Siachen as peace park will help`


By Atul Aneja

NEW DELHI, JUNE 21. Concerned over environmental degradation and the loss of life in Siachen, a group of conservationists has proposed that the troops stationed there be withdrawn and the glacier be converted into a peace park. The proposal will be formally sent to the Prime Minister, Mr. Atal Behari Vajpayee, ahead of his summit meeting with the Pakistan President, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, in Agra.

Mr. Aamir Ali, who is here as part of a group to commemorate the golden jubilee of the Trishul mountaineering expedition, said the conversion of Siachen into a natural reserve offered several advantages. First, it skirted the contentious issue of border demarcation. The reserve, along the Saltoro range, could be jointly maintained by India and Pakistan without reference to territorial boundaries.

Secondly, it would not involve dislocation of populations as the area was uninhabited. Also, it would be an honourable way out for the countries locked in a battle since 1984 on the heights ranging up to 21,000 feet. ``If Siachen becomes a trans-frontier peace park, it maybe a way out as no side (India or Pakistan) loses out,`` Mr. Ali said.

If both sides mustered the political will to convert the Saltoro range into a reserve, technical means were commercially available to verify that it remained that way, Mr. Ali said.

On the ``appalling`` environmental degradation, he said the troops stationed there generated a huge amount of waste. Because of the low temperatures, the waste was stored in drums, which were later thrown into crevasses. Around 1,000 kg of human waste alone was generated daily, he observed, adding that ``all this will come out one day with disastrous effect``.

Mr. Ali said both India and Pakistan, who were experienced in maintaining high-altitude parks, would not have a problem in looking after the Siachen area. For instance, Pakistan maintains the Khunjerab National Park and the large Central Karakoram National Park, which will be adjacent to the proposed Siachen peace park. India maintains the Manas Wildlife Sanctuary on both sides of the India-Bhutan border. Other Himalayan reserves looked after by India include the Nanda Devi, the Leibul Lamjao, the Khangchendzionga and the Kishtwar.

The concept of peace parks is not new. Mr. Ali said there were 136 trans-frontier parks on the borders of 98 countries. Recently, Hungary, Yugoslavia and Croatia had agreed to establish a cross-border nature reserve, while in February last, Albania, Greece and Macedonia had decided to establish the Prespa park. The demilitarised zone between North and South Korea had also become a nature reserve after it was left undisturbed.

The Peace Park foundation in South Africa, led by Mr. Anton Rupert, was taking a keen interest in such ventures, Mr. Ali said. If India and Pakistan agreed to a `Siachen Peace Park`, it would earn them great respect in the international community. ``It would be an extraordinary statement as the year 2002 is being observed as the International Year of the Mountains.`` In the following year, the World Conservation Union will be devoting its regular conference to peace parks.

Romair and Scout,

You telling Indians if only we had let go of Kashmiris Veeresh`s cousin would have been alive stinks of hypocrisy.

Why don`t you pose this question to your very own Jehadis. Let`s see if only you Pakistanis and Jehadis had minded their own business ...

Romair, I can`t understand why you still think that Indians are targetting civilians in Kashmir. You think we have nothing better to do?

If the soldiers are killing only civilians then your jehadis must be having a field day.

Stuka

How did you come to the conclusion that Urstruly was critical of those seeking seek peace? My understanding was that he was calling for a honorable peace.

Can you justify questioning anybody`s right to hold whatever opinion? We can disagree on the content of the opinion, but can we justify the right to an opinion?

hamidm,

{{there is nothing more ridiculous than a burqa-clad prostitute and a sherwani-clad general .......}}

Hah! you arrogant Pakistani! You think you are so great because your leaders have the moral high ground of ridiculousness..

Just wait... you will soon encounter a certain dhoti clad, pan chewing, kavita quoting, artificial kneed homo...

India kicks Pakistan`s butt in EVERY category...including ridiculousness..

Scout, 49,

The only certain way a muslim can enter heaven is by becoming a jihadist and killed by a kafir. There are pakistanis in their thousands streaming across the LOC for this only purpose, and at the annual meeting at Madrike, The lasker e- toiba sends thanks to the indian soldiers for obliging the desires of the pak jihadists.

Urstruly (#31):

Dear Mr. Businessman, would you buy me or die for me, even though I do not live in Kashmir? Or will that be a futile exercise as you have no brownie points to score, and I with my charmed life have no slain family members and the wounds inflicted on my mind have been called imaginary? Will you stand up for me? Will I be counted? No. I know that. Because when the mosque was demolished your people destroyed temples to show solidarity; they did not come to the bastis, where I may not live, but the darzi, the boys working in tanneries, the domestics, the little people do, and I know them.

Having said this, I am also well aware that while I may walk into those bullet-ridden houses and watch their fading scars, I too hold Kashmir as a pennant. For, it has seeped into our psyche and become a cause with which we have unwittingly become identified. Today, most Muslim boys are seen as Kashmiri militants or ISI agents even if they are dark-skinned and have never tasted ‘kahwah’ (Kashmiri tea) let alone blood.

The other day I was returning from a trip and I noticed this elderly gentleman watching me, from the departure lounge, to the aircraft, where he sat across the aisle, through immigrations and finally at the baggage retrieval. He pulled his trolley near mine, and asked me, “Are you a Kashmiri? I am convinced you are, just want to confirm…” I said, no, I am not. He said he was. Then he asked me my name. “Ah, Muslim…I am a Kashmiri,” he said. I mentioned the name of a place where my friend lives. He frowned a bit before replying, “I don’t know where that is. I am a Hindu.” I had not even told him which religion my friend professed.

There will be people here and elsewhere who will question your moral authority. Yes, I do believe that many of you who live in foreign lands find it very convenient to make us feel responsible while you blabber with rhetoric. Remember how often I have been told to ‘experience the regressive Muslim world’ by those comfortably ensconced in far-off Western societies. They had a problem because one was the ‘other’ among their own; you are the other Other and so there will be a different take on you. The saints will come marching in and be feted as the sane voices, and one side will patronisingly talk about how good the other is and there is hope due to these knights. I question the moral authority of these knights as well, for I know that except for a few of them, the rest are playing their sweet little games.

But I cannot ask you to keep up your diatribe, for I know that you are not flawless. How can you say, “And any peace that comes by shredding your motherland into pieces is a

Deception” when you do know that as a shredded piece yourself, you are seeking to defy being called the deceiver?

Think about it, and continue to believe in yourself without saude-baazi!

Farzana

hobbyty (#34):

[“Pakistanis want to develop an identity or put emphasis on ``not Indian`` precisely because Indians display a institutional, almost congential hostility towards us and our ideals.”]

As you must know I have brought up this point in my articles, and have been called anti-national and unpatriotic for it. However, in my post I wanted to give you the flip-side and emphasise that you cannot wipe out the historical legacy we share. You may think of Ataturk as a model, but tell me honestly, has Pakistan in its entire duration of existence ever strived towards it? I appreciate your acceptance of “insecurity”; I also feel that there is an element of self-destruction. Sure, you can and will identify with those of your choice, but when I mentioned Maulana Azad it was to draw attention to the fact that he shares a greater commonality with what is now the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, just as Jinnah at one time shared a secular vision with Nehru. (I have my own take on the ego tussle, though.) Azad was attached to India, and he cannot be faulted on that score. The tragedy is that he was sidelined completely and became the totem of a Republic that had no respect for its secular and democratic principles. We still applaud our democracy, which is a sham. Which is why I feel that your CEO anointing himself President is less of a conniving act than our ruling party getting all cozy with people of different stripes to save its precious ass. And they talk of preserving culture.

You say, “You know, like you be you, not like me.” It is not as easy as it appears. And I beg to differ that “most of us look alike”. Some of us do, who happen to belong to a certain religious group. This is an insidious way of telling us where we ‘belong’, and while they do not tire reiterating this point, the minute we object to it, we are blamed for using the minority card.

I cannot speak with any authority on Pak nationalism, but it depends not on when and how India tells you where to get off, but when your own society realises what you ought to be. Siblings differ, true, but they do not forget their mother.

As for getting a stray silly comment by bong-dongs translated, just let it be (I can do it if you are desperate); it will not enlighten anyone at all, and it is not “multi-dimensional”, so do not worry too much whether things have gone over your head. Remember a satire is a satire, not an allegory, so the hidden meanings are usually on the surface.

---------

Stuka (#38):

Yes, I talk of colonialism – the superiority of the Bombay one as opposed to the Dilli version. Anyway…

[“Why do I get pissed off by your articles. Lets leave that for another day ;) Yes Yes I know how popular you are. People love you so much they always seem to be offering free airline tickets to you :) Wish I generated such love. My vacation plans would be set

for all time.”]

Pity that you need to depend on love and the munificence of others to plan your holidays. And believe me, being sponsored for a vacation to Kabul by those who come from purgatory is not my idea of a vacation. This is if you are keeping tabs on the Boards here and joking. If you are seriously making accusations then, excuse me…may I know who has offered me free airline tickets? Do you mind the fact that I pay for my tickets, my stay and all other recreational activities? And I never accept a free lunch? I suppose this is cause enough for feeling resentful. And it is people like you who applaud the media warriors who shamelessly go on sponsored junkets, and you have a high opinion of those sweet secularists who when they are not talking about their Muslim drivers are busy going as ‘special invitees’ on wine-tasting jamborees to France. Do I envy them? Not one bit. I reject them.

My asking you about what you felt about my articles was just a way of breaking the ice. You can get pissed off by what I write, and may not even read me, but don’t ever question my integrity. Because I live by my convictions and independence alone. The rest I leave open for assault. Hope this sinks in.

PS: Did not know you were new here. Thought you were just avoiding me all along :)

Cheers,

Farzana



dost-mittar (#47):

Thanks for missing me :) No, we were not chasing different threads…I was chasing dreams. Why do you ask, “You seem to be wearing the flag more proudly these days. Any changes in life?” This is disturbing, coming from you. I wear the flag of honesty (however self-congratulatory it may sound), and I have loved my country, but not always liked it. What is wrong in pointing out when the colours start fading? Does it not mean that one cares?

Khair, how are the ghazal-sessions coming along?

Regards,

Farzana

RE: SameerJB # 45

It is ridiculous for a fan of Maharaja Ranjeet Singh like yourself who believes that fuedalism, socialism, communism, Hinduism, Sikhism, nihilism... everything with an ``ism`` is better than Islam, to try and forge a Pakistani point of view.

Now get over it. The Syeds, Farooquis and Uzbeks ruled over your brothers in faith in UP (and kicked their ass too) just like Siks ruled over your sorry Punjabi asses. If you miss the Sikh horses in the Badshahi Mosque and the Sikh chitter on your behind... not to mention the pride of having your women in the harems of Ranjeet Singh and his hanger-on`s, well, its your choice.

(Chaudri Fazal Din, mubarak howay, mein sunnya see Nikki nu SardaraN ne chuk laya hai, Maharaja horaN di rann banaan wastay.... Bas ji, Uppar Walay da khas karam hay sadday te... A typical Punjabi Muslim dialogue from the 1800`s).

The Syeds from UP tried to save you then (Ismail Shaheed Barelvi), and managed to free you in 1947, but can`t help if you miss the Sardars so much.

PS. Use a Urdu to Gormukhi dictionary to check the meaning of ``Aslaf`` (singular Salf).

News Item in Friday`s Dawn: ``President and Chief Executive Gen Pervez Musharraf would preside over a meeting here...``

The reporter is obviously impressed by ``President and Chief Executive Gen`` PM. He forgot ``shah-in-shah, jehan panah``

Stuka #39 ``If you are a Jehadi, I would consider you the enemy yes, but would respect your motivation and courage. ``

Brother urstruly is a soldier just like you are a Stuka fighter-bomber. In his dreams. I have commented so often on the evil of people sitting comfortably in the West or in Islamabad or Delhi or someplace pretending to be great warriors. It is the poor man who suffers from violence and hostilities, and when there is so much poverty and suffering in the subcontinent it is a crime for those lucky enough to escape that misery to sit and act like some kind of grand warriors. I have mentioned this to urstruly in the past, and to a few other chowk posters like him (Indian and Pakistani), but like a true self-centered person he keeps on playing the paper warrior.

....... now i am more convinced than ever that india is pakistan`s enemy number one .... why did vijpayee agree to meet with our little tin-pot dictator ? .... what does he hope to accomplish ? .... nothing, absolutely nothing, will come out these ``talks`` except that mushy will get a twenty-one gun salute and get a chance to puff out his sherwani-clad chest and play president .... there is nothing more ridiculous than a burqa-clad prostitute and a sherwani-clad general .......

I`m sorry about your cousin`s death. People die unnecessarily in the face of war.

Maybe you should take a stance against the Indian government`s stubborness over Kashmir.

Let the Kashmiris be the masters of their own fate, and in the process save countless lives, including those of Indian soldiers and people like your cousin.

Perhaps people like you can make a dent in government policy and bring changes.

Stuka,

You are new to Chowk. Better learn some manners! URstruly is a super-special agent of the ISI. He has been sent by the supergeneral to keep tabs on Chowk. He wants to know who is who. Then he wants to set all the brothers & sisters on the path of true righteousness that eludes them. Of course, none other than URstruly, has the supreme wisdom that will set you on the path of true human decency, o brothers & sisters.

How DARE you doubt his intentions?

How DARE you preach to him?

He has correctly identified the biggest scum of the earth--even worse than hindus (if THAT`S POSSIBLE!)--those besharam pseudoliberal ex-commies of Pakistan. Allah cursed Pakistan the day those besharams were born in the Land of the Pure. Their true identity will soon be revealed (they cant hide in cyberspace forever). Then Pakistan will deal with them---traitor by bloody traitor! I promise you URstruly will do that. He never goes back on his promise, I promise you.

At least those hindu scumbags have an excuse! I mean, theyre frikking penis-worshippers, yaar. Think about it, their fathers & their father`s fathers never had any shame! How the heck do you expect creatures like those to have any shame?

Get real, Stuka, & dive bomb someone of your own caliber. Not my friend, URstruly. I mean, that man knows us hindus better than we know ourselves!! Nobody, but nobody is in the same category as my main man URstruly. How I wish I was like him....sniff..

PS. URstruly. Christ! how many times should I grovel before your majesty? Listen, you blew my cover..I lost my RAW job...I know sh *t from shinola about psychiatry. I neeeed that job at the ISI...pleeease!! I will track those namak haram pseudo liberals out for you. I promise you...

What I Want Indians to do to Mutt

About a 1000 years ago, some disgruntled Rajputs invited Shahb-ud-Din Ghauri to Delhi. That was the begining of Islamic Empire in the sub-continent. The empire started to crumble after 700 years and despite many spirited attempts to revive, it finally came to an end in 1857. A substantial number of Muslims from the Muslim minority provinces in the Ganges plains always felt about Islamic Empires as ``theirs`` and kept dreaming about reviving Islamic Empire in India or some part of India. Over time a group of people identifying themselves as ``Aslaf (noble Muslims)``, not only dreamed of reviving an Islamic Empire but under their leadership also. The Indian Muslim League provided the kind of opportunity they were looking for. They hid their desire behind Muslim League, Jinnah and a separate nation in the Muslim majority provinces. Muslim majority in Muslim majority provinces was not convinced until 1940 but something happened between 1940 and 1946. BJP applied the same strategy in eighties and nineties and like Muslim league of forties, they were able to turn a 2-seat victory into majority 10-15 years later.

The assassination of Liaquat Ali Khan dealt a severe blow to Aslaf led revival of Islamic Empire of India based in Pakistan. It delayed their dream by 50 years and finally they succeeded.

The accumulation of power in the hand of a Syed (presidency, chief executive, COAS and CJCS) cupled with a Qureshi, an Usmani and Shaukat Aziz leaves only two more spots to fill, a Siddiqui and a farooqui to have an Islamic Empire heade by one from the house of Muhammad and one each from houses of four Khalifa Rashideen. How about having a Siddiqui Chief Justice of supreme court and a Farooqui Prime minister or senior minister? Pakistani public need to distribute ladoos for the most honest and most ``Aslaf`` of all finally taking over Pakistan through back door.

History repeats itself. After 1000 years, another Indian invites someone to New Delhi. A millennial anniversary of invitation to Shahab-ud-Din Ghauri is about to be celebrated in New Delhi and Agra. It would be appropriate for Indians to provide Mutt a Qandhari Afghan orderly ( a reminder of Ghauri`s army) and Mutt comes back with the title of Lawrence of Pakistan.

This is a great opportunity for Indian people of New Delhi and Agra to prove their love for the people of Pakistan. They must protest inlarge numbers, visible to international media, against the honor killing, poor treatment of women and minorities, and above all for the rights of Pakistanis to choose their own rulers. The protests by Kashmiri hindus, RSS, Sangh Parivar and relatives of recent military casualties on Indian side do nothing to show affection or caring for their neighbors, people of Pakistan. Please do not miss this opportunity to show your concerns for the people of Pakistan who are anyhting but Aslafs.

Veeresh,

You say:

` ylh #19: Thank you, and we all need to thank Prem too. As for RSaxena . . . well maybe he will meet his equivalent of a Prem/Parvez someday too, and then let nature take its course? `

Sir kindly visit the following link,

http://www.chowk.com/bin/showr.cgi?asarwari_jun01

It has 1056 replies currently. It is an ideological debate about a lot of issues, including things like what is secularism and what fanaticism etc. From post one you will see that I have debated on facts, figures, sources, and my interpretation of history, which as I have quoted is a view shared by many. Instead of having an honest debate, the kind of intolerance and fanaticism, that the likes of Rsaxena, Latif Chappu, and Upman7626 have exhibited on that board, and the kind of disrespect they have shown me, is totally uncalled for, and against any norms of decency. I dont know why instead of debating Gandhian Philosophy, or Jinnah`s Constitutional idealism, why people have taken to berate, abuse and disrespect me? Is this sir, what you teach your youth in your country? Kindly go and see for yourself, that I have not singled out anyone despite extreme provocation by these people.

My debate on these forums have been ideological. If the debate has been about Jinnah, I have put up my perspective, and backed up with facts figures and sources which for the most part have been a balanced mix of Indian Pakistani and Western Authors. If the debate has been about Gandhi, I have again done the same. If the debate has been about Pakistan`s political fabric I have done the same. Indeed, the conclusions I have drawn, and reached, are what a lot of other individuals, in Pakistan, India and the West have too.

Indians counter arguments have been nothing but filth, personal attacks, and corny mama jokes. So you see why any positive and friendly sentiments expressed by a person like you dont go very far, because you sir are a minority in India just like you are minority on chowk.

Hence with great regret, I retract all my sentiments and hopes for peace between our two nations that I have talked about in my post 19 except one ... ``Live and let live.``

Indeed, I wish to propose once more, as a genuine well wisher, that all Indians leave Pakistanis alone at once, for this constant talking at each other has not brought out anything constructive instead of increase hostility . That I have done justice to my perspective in the past is a known fact, and all those past interactions will be a testament to who has steadfastly held on to the rope of logic and rationality, and who has stooped to petty name calling BS.

Long Live Pakistan

Stuka,

Love your nick. Where from...?

regs,