What I Want Pakistan’s CEO To Do

RE Shah

``...you may outshine ,none of the melodrama of personal loss IS any more than thousand unknown mujahdeen who dont even have marked grave.``

Heck, I thought they were in heaven being ravished by, and in turn, ravishing those 70 vestal virgins or whatever that quota they were allocated

Reply hobbyty #23

Hi,

Well just a counter point. How many Indians do you think want to associate themselves with the so called Pakistani culture or Pakistani way of life .

I think just as Pakistanis are proud of being who they are, so are Indians, and no Indian in his sound senses is either wanting to make Pakistan a part of their nationhood or consciousness .

Just because some lunatic from Rss say so, does not in any way convey the collective consciousness of India. In a similar way I might argue that some of your guys too claim to fly the Pakistani flag on the red fort, but that does not represent the mainstream Pakistani view, that`s what I think at least .

I fully agree with you that we as nations have a totally different outlook to life and cultural ethos . We are two totally different people, Pakistani culture is closer to the central Asian and the middle eastern culture and world view. India is where from the Far eastern culture and way of life actually start .

So I hope that satisfies you .

What has happened has happened, I don`t think anybody can either change it nor should change it .

What can be done is that the two countries can reach agreements on cooperation in business, which could mutually benefit all concerned, in a similar way India should have a close cooperation with the other countries of the subcontinent as well .

This will definitely lead to better atmospherics for the resolution of all outstanding problems .

Now coming to Kashmir, yeah we all need to find a just solution to the problem, but problem presently is that the definition of JUST vary`s so much across the board, and secondly if at all any solution comes for Kashmir, then it would definitely not be under the shadow of the Gun, No Nation can be seen giving in to the authority of the Gun, how ever just the cause .

If Gandhiji can win freedom from the British using non-violent means, And if Kashmiris of the valley truly believe in what they are doing.

Then they should protest in non-violent ways. In today`s day of media, you think they would not be heard.



Long and short of it is that not withstanding Kashmir, all parties tend to benefit from closer cooperation in only business .

Regards

-VIVEK-

Veeresh 11

OK Veeresh - I didn`t get it - so let me try to understand:

The butter won`t melt in their mouth, pacifist Indians have been magnanimous. They are actually get PM`s fat out of the fire, not their own?

Yes, Pakistan today is not what Jinnah (it would seem) would have wanted. But Jinnah died to soon to help shape Pakistan. And Pakistanis shape Pakistan. While Pakistan is no Paradise, it is hardly the fundamentalist caricature so many Indians are convinced it is. Propaganda? Couldn`t be, you Indians are such independent thinkers.

Veeresh, Most Indians, as is evidenced by their posts on Chowk boards definitely believe that Muslims were collaborators with British - but while the pacifists were being nonviolent, someone was catching British bullets. (check out A. Sarwari`s board or any other board)

And is it not true that ``our`` freedom movement was the Pakistan movement? Indians hold that we broke ``their`` country, never acknowledging that we charted a course that is our right to. I think that bugs Indians.

The same background? under your definition, which is rather loose, yes we can be all from the same background, including backgrounds North and West of India. Why does seem to burn you guys so much?

Don`t you get it? We made a choice in 47. And so did you guys! Why do Indians want so desperately to have veto over our choices, don`t you get it?

You and so many Indians just do not seem to respect or understand that choice. So long as that is the case, horns or not, Indians are no friends of Pakistan. Yes, you make an extreme point with the spaceships, but that does make our being the same any truer. Try and get this : we are Pakistani not Indian. Indians should not be Pakistanis, they should be Indians. If we get into this superficial mushyness about the possibility of better relations in the future, we will be threatening those relations. Acknowledge and respect the difference between us, this will allow us to acknowledge and respect our similarities.

Why paper over the facts and the realities, it`s no way to build better relations. Instead Indians should have the courage to say, yes it`s true, Indians did demonize Pakistanis and Muslims, Yes, it`s true that we hold that Muslims broke ``our`` country. And say it loud so Pakistani can hear, that maybe Indians think it`s time to reconsider some of their notions about their and our history.

Veeresh, we can be friends only after the Indian nation does some soul searching, OK we are a evil, greedy, liars, filthy bunch, but, if you are not, why this situation persisted for more than 54 years. Just a little honesty, please. If we think of you as the enemy, you think of us as the enemy - anything else would be like the sound of one hand clapping. Just read some the posts here by Indians. If you disagree that that is not just unabashed, irrational hatred, of Islam and Pakistan, I don`t know, I`ll eat a bug or something.

Yes we should have normal and correct relations, but please save the bhai bhai stuff for the Chinese.

And if someday, Indian institutions will realize that demonizing Islam and Pakistan was not the way to go. Maybe we can look at the past with relatively rosey glasses.

OK Indian cyber warrior squad - get with the name calling.

Veeresh, in your article you write: ``Just yesterday, I spent an hour next to the grave of my first cousin, gentleman and tough soldier if ever there was one, victim to the troubles in Kashmir as recently as May 28th, 2001.``

Please accept my condolences on the death of your cousin, Major Sikka. May God bless his soul, and may his grieving mother and other loved ones find peace.

We owe it to your cousin to do what we can to end this madness. Indeed we owe it to every single individual who has lost his or her life as a result of the India-Pakistan hostilities of the past 50 years, to put an end to these hostilities. We must make it clear to our leaders (elected or otherwise) that we will no longer accept this continued confrontation. Kashmir is not an difficult problem by any means, and if these leaders want to solve it they can solve it in one day (accept the de facto border as it is, and work together to put an end to the fighting).

Enjoyed reading it.

Peace between Pakistan and India is in the interest of both, so there is no need for the speculation about who thinks the other more of an enemy.

I am glad Musharraf is now President. I hope there is a diplomatic and practical solution to this hostility. It should not and will not go overnight, that is not the aim, but there must be an edging towards more honest acknowledgement of what each state`s responsibility is. New contracts should be made, only after the violation of old ones is examined and tackled.

RE: hobbyty:

Well said.

Aisha Sarwari

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What `WILL` PM do:

I think thats quite clear to any student of Pakistan`s History

1. Create a political party to serve his interests and those of the army)

Recall ZAB and NS were both politically sired by armymen.

2. Install more (self) serving and retarded army personel in civilian posts.

3. Curse the politicians forgetting they were (most of them) created by his army

4. Suspend any remaining human rights of the miserable citizens ``in greater national interest``

5. Follow the dictates of International monettary agencies making the ordinary man more miserable

6

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etc etc

One thing he WILL NOT do

change the status quo in Pakistan

This is the sad reality

Adnan

Well written and optimistic. In the these times of uncertainty and pessimism, atleast this brought a smile or two to faces of many chowks.

Maybe, the solutions to political problems will be achieved more easily, in an atmosphere of cordiality and friendship. No wonder Rsaxena hasnt written on this board so far.

Let us live and let live. Let us agree to disagree in cordial and friendly manner (case in point being my friend Prem and my relationship) and let us accept that Histories are based on perspectives, and there are no rights or wrongs except the obvious ones like Hitler for example, and even there we have to refrain from playing gods.

Let us agree on Kashmir once and for all, and let us then abide by our decisions till eternity. Let us accept all legal resolutions and revolutions of the past, no matter how just they might seem to us, and foremost let us learn to respect each other`s right to exist.

Those who are going to point fingers at my conduct in the past, I have only one thing to say, ... if I disagree with Gandhi jee, I wont insult him unless somebody provoked us first. Now let us leave these provocations, and take pride in what we are, as Pakistanis and Indians, and learn to co exist in this world.

Long Live Pakistan

Dear Veeresh!

Loved it as usual!...was beginning to miss your presence.

I am sure having lost a beloved cousin in Kashmir won`t affect your thinking,nor lessen your desire to make friends with Pakistan and its people(including the new President:)

Regards,

Taimur.

Ref hobbyty

``People with the same background? What same background? What planet is this? Majority of Pakistanis and Indians have no mutual history other than mistrust and suspicion.``

Arre melya tu he khara bollas, tujya sarkhya halkat mansan barobar majha kahihi sambandh nahin

Tom Friedman, the NY Times columnist has a thesis, which he calls the McDonald’s theory. According to this theory no two countries that have McDonald’s chains have ever gone to war against each other. I think Pakistan now has a McDonald’s in Karachi, If India already has one then the CEO should go there and enjoy a happy meal otherwise, he should urge Mr. Vajpaee to invest in the first Indian McDonald. In fact they should jointly invest in opening Macs all over India and Pakistan.

They should try talking to each other in colloquial Urdu/Hindi rather than English. During ZAB visit to Simla, Indra Ghandi enamored Pakistani journalist by speaking flawless Urdu.

They should memorize each other’s national anthems and impress the other side by singing along during the official receptions.

Instead of blaming the other side they should blame themselves for causing so much death and destruction without achieving anything.

Mr. Vajpaee should take the CEO to the jhugee colonies of Delhi and Agra and spend some time with the poor and disposed. They should explain to them why they spend so much money on arms and so less on reducing poverty and illiteracy.

Ref Farzana Versey #: 4

[Para gliding by CEO? Nah. There is an old fakir at Fatehpur Sikri who jumps into a mossy well for 100 bucks.]

In the book `Lives of a Bengal Lancer`, it is recounted that the author (a British officer of the Bengal regiment) met a Muslim near Delhi in the 1920s who for one rupee jumped into a well. Maybe it is the same person who is now doing it for 100 rupees.

That Muslim also bemoaned the fact that the old ways were changing fast and the kaffir Hindus were going to English schools and taking jobs away from Muslims. It will be tragic if today`s well-jumper is a descendant of the earlier one. It would mean that these guys haven`t learnt a thing in 75 years.

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#4 , What is the need to reply in swahili or some other language? I understand that some Indians and Pakistanis have made eastern Africa home , but Wwahili is about as unitelligible to Indians as Pak intransigence.

Ras Siddiqui and everybody else, sorry about the nomenclature bit on CEO versus President, as we say, Natha Singh, Prem Singh, one and the Sam Ting.

jntuece99 #2: Thanks. I also lost a brother a long time ago, but anyways.

nameless #3: I am informed that the ceremonial reception on arrival Delhi would include checking out the grandeur of the Viceroy`s Palace on Raisina Hill currently occupied. Incidentally, even I as an Indian cannot drive up to the ViceRegal Board & Lodge unless I have a car with a sticker.

Farzana #4: You`ve been had by that bloke who jumps into the moat at Fatehpur Sikri and surfaces out the other end from under the wall through the secret tunnel stuff which is actually nothing but masonry that crumbled . . . his rate is like 20 rupees for desis and 100 for gora log. The roads were, like, an algorithm. The Merc has an engine, though the bodyline got slightly ropey/rusty/scrappy, you infidel non-believer and shall run again as soon as I get time to fix it, there are some people on this board who have been in the car when it worked, OK? I know where we will all get certificates to prove that we are below 21 or above 60 once I`ve got this deal going. I do think most of us in India, and not just Russi Karanjia or MJ Akbar, can and could say what we pleased. As far as the joint freedom struggle bit is concerned, I was never taught that it was in anyway otherwise.

devkant #5: Do you think anybody gets the allusion to American Chop Suey or am I the only one seeing gunboats floating down the Sir Creek?

popcorn #6: Thanks. Come to chowk often.

Cyra #7: Does he get a raise, or a bigger house? Just curious . . .

hobbyty #8: Get a life, please. I do think you`ve missed most of the essence of the article, but as long as you are willing to talk and discuss, I am achieving my purpose, so thanks dude. For the rest, I don`t think anybody at any race course in India would object to a Jinnah Cup, I assure you that Indians and Indian history books acknowledge his role in our freedom struggle though at the same time like most thinking Pakistanis they don`t understand why Pakistan today is not exactly in line with what he wanted. But then India today is not exactly what Gandhi wanted, either, so . . . if somebody donated that cup or prize, I do think there are some races with links to people and places in Pakistan and one more would not be objected to. The para jump has allusions to some regimental connections that Parvez Musharraf would have as a soldier to Agra. Teetar-batair are illegal except if reared specifically, which apparently is not the same thing as seeking the increasingly rarer wild one. The Prime Minister of India Atal Behari Vajpayee, the Managing Director of Infosys Nandan Nilekani and the boss of Wipro Aziz Premji all own Ambassadors as their personal cars simply because they are reliable and comfortable. Sure, get the Kashmiri mothers along too. Unlimited visas for Indians below 21 and over 60 in exchange for the hordes of illegal Pakistanis and Bangladeshis now entering India anyways, why not, we would like to see that great Muslim Arab heritage near Taxila and maybe even that Saracenic or Turkish influenced Pakistani exclusive civilisation known as Indus Valley, right? Musharraf`s brother stayed on in Delhi and wan`t too unhappy running his leftist bookshop, I`m told. We openly ``preach`` in our history that at any one time everybody complied with and collaborated with the Brits which is why we were reduced to the sorry lot we were then. Mutual history, no, all of us came by separate spacecrafts from different planets, but now that we landed on soil connected by rivers and mountains and seas, may we request you to please not think that we Martians/Indians are your enemies just because we probably got horns on our heads and are all relics from Bollywood films, please?

I don`t mind if President Musharraf goes to Agra or Pondicherry. I don`t care if they discuss Naushad or Pink Floyd.

I DO however care about people running the Delhi Gymkhana down. Hey Farzana, I`ve read your articles before, and yes those articles piss me off, but I`ve never been aggravated enough to make the effort of interacting. But C`mon the DGC?? What do you, along with Ex Prime Minister VP Singh(who once showed up in Pajamas) and the painter MF Hussain (who insists on on going bare foot) have against the Delhi Gym. Its too ``Colonial`` for you. Why pray?? Coz they happen to have a dress code. Coz they limit the numbers?? Is it the Delhi Gymkhana`s fault that we belong to an overpopulated country?? By the way, I have used the sleeping room and the blanket was NOT smelly.

I do apologise for the digression from Kashmir and so on and so forth, but hey the Delhi Gym is worth the effort.

Cheers