What I Want Pakistan’s CEO To Do

Sameer JB #45

Although your post in understandable, but not comprehensible. For reasons.

1- If Pakistan was a mistake. Then blame all people who ultimately participated in it. Rather than living peacefully in United India. (Indian Muslims can better tell)

2- Inspite of all rhetoric, Indian Muslims and Hindus have been two different people in same nation. And their interest were sometimes anti to each other. For example demand of seperation of Sind with bombay or Division of Bengal etc.

3- Institutions are institutions. And does not depend upon Farooqui or Jat or Siddiqui or Gujjur.

That is fifteenth century attitude where one group vying for supermacy subjugates other group.

In modern states, institutional interest takes precedence over all other interests.

For example a Pathan or Punjabi or Mohajir or Baluchi(Musa Khan) General will have two things in mind. Benefit of Army and defense of country.

In the same vein, beareucracy has its own interest.

Politically, you are well aware of Northern Punjabi Nawaz Sharif, uniting hand with Southern Punjabi Nawabzadah Nasrullah Khan, uniting hand with Sindhi Benazir, uniting hand with Pathan Asfandyar Wali. Their interest is political rights and opportunities in Pakistan.

In the same way MQM and Nationalist Sindhis and Baluch Sardars want to get their rights on the basis of their community or region and not in all Pakistan context. And there is some proximity between them.

Those times are gone.

Even if Pakistan is not there, you still have to think in terms of State. This time within Indian union. Or Union of Punjab (Sikh and Muslims and Hindu Punjabi). And still same or similar kind of problem will arise.

Does Bangladesh has no problems? There is one nation Bengali. What will happen if East and West Bengal unites to form one state?

Re: Hobbyt #83

``Shammi`s personal tragedy at the Hands of Pakistanis is more valid than those suffered by Muslims at the hands of Indians``

Absolutely not. It was an evil all around. My family was not special in any way.

Re: ROMAIR #35

``However, considering the fact that every Indian-Pakistani discussion, from hygiene to kebabs, eventually somehow or the other, ends up on Kashmir, one would have to assume that Kashmir is the only roadblock between India and Pakistan``

Winston Churchill once said, ``A fanatic is someone who cannot change his mind, and will not change the subject``. I decided to test whether you (along with Urstruly and Hobbyty) fit this definition. I therefore went back to all the interactions preceding this post of yours, searched for the keyword `Kashmir` to see who said what and why on Kashmir. The analysis details appear below at the end of this post. The results were not startling. One thing became clear -- all interactions up until your post, Hobbyty#8 and Urstruly #31 skirted around Kashmir, and mentioned it only in passing, or to downplay it as a reason for strife between India and Pakistan. Your assertion that all discussions end on Kashmir is all the more suspect since you (along with Urstruly) attempted to drive it in that direction. Strange charge indeed!

RESULTS OF ANALYSIS (in order of appearance of interactors)

Popcorn #6 & #24 (downplaying the issue)

Hobbyty #8 (highlighting the issue) with responses from Veeresh #11, #26 (mentioned Kashmir in passing) and Shah #13 (again mentioned Kashmir in passing)

Stuka #10 (apology from digressing away from Kashmir)

Tahmed321 #14 (mentioned Kashmir in passing)

taimurmalik#18 (mentioned Kashmir in passing)

YLH #19 (mentioned Kashmir in passing)

Versey #27 (mentioned Kashmir in passing)

urstruly #31 (MAJOR DIATRIBE/OUTPOURING OF SUPPORT for Kashmir)

Romair #35 (Major `Thought Piece` on Kashmir and what bedevils Indo-Pak relations)

END OF ANALYSIS

I suspect that elections in Pakistan will generally produce the same result and intensity on Kashmir, but then most Pakistanis are not fanatics.

I rest my case.

Re: Veeru

If you want any say whatsoever on your board, please refrain from using the hot button (per my chum The Silent One) key words or themes in your articles. Write a poetry and you will have lots of control over the 35 posts. Write about anything remotely peripheral to the hot button and snarling will begin. And there is no controling snarling.

Now please be a doll & make a contribution on the sarwari board... and dont forget to double post.

Your evil cousin

Latif Chappu

Re: Sadhana

More slogans for Mushie:

THE MORE DICTATORS I MEET THE MORE I LIKE MY DOG.

FIGHTHING FOR PEACE IS LIKE F * * *ING FOR VIRGINITY.

TIME FLIES WHEN YOU DON`T KNOW WHAT YOU`RE DOING.

Thank you kindly.

The recent takeover of Kidney Center in Karachi by Government, needs to be seen in proper context.

Since the Government has failed utterly to provide relief to people, and needs money to run the affairs of Government.

Rich and poor alike, by philanthropy have started taking care of their problem, without involving the Government.

There are many projects, but Kidney center, Edhi trust and Shokat Khanum Memorial hospital comes to mind right away. Since I have worked also with such a clinic, I know they are providing some service to the much needful population.

Although the rich donate their money for Tax relief. But still those and many many institutions provide much needed services to much needful population.

Government after destroying all institutions, leaving people in perpetual poverty and illiteracy and indebting them to Foreign powers, should leave these institutions from its dirty hands. And let these institutions work on their own.

If this kind of attitude continues, then people will ultimately be deprived of the only hope for the people of Pakistan.

MQM chief sings `Saare Jahan Se Achha,Hindustan Hamaara...`

NEW DELHI: Pakistan`s Muttahida Quami Movement chief Altaf Hussain, who recently equated the brutalities perpetrated by the Pervez Musharraf regime against the Sindhis and Mohajirs to the Jalianwalla Bagh massacre, has again created a storm by reciting Saare Jahan Se Achha, Hindustan Hamara during a TV interview.

Hussain recited the famous poem of Iqbal during the interview and said ``every Pakistani should make these lines as his ideal``, Pakistani media reports said.

Urdu daily Din quoted Hussain as saying that recent firing on Sindhi demonstrators, who were protesting against severe water shortage due to blockade of river water by Punjab province, ``refreshed the memory of brutalities during Jalianwalla Bagh in British India``.

``There can be absolutely no two opinions that every officer of the police and Rangers of the Punjabi administration in occupied Sindh has become General Dyer which has been manifested by direct and indiscriminate spraying of bullets on innocent people,`` he was quoted as saying.

The MQM chief also asked Kashmiri `jihadi` outfits whether they would ``declare `jihad` against those who opened indiscriminate fire upon innocent Sindhi protesters`` and whether they would perform `jihad` against ``the ruthless and oppressive personnel of police and paramilitary rangers to free the occupied Sindh``.

Sindh province has been witnessing large-scale unrest on the water shortage issue, especially in the last two weeks, with MQM, Jiye Sindh Quami Mahaz and Awami Tehrik organising protests and strikes on the issue.

A large number of senior leaders and activists, reports in Dawn, The Nation and other dailies said, were picked up from their homes, taken into custody and tortured.

Senior Awami Tehrik leader Vishnu Mal, who led a group of party workers in observing a hunger strike on the same issue, was quoted in Dawn as telling reporters at the Hyderabad Press Club that Gen Musharraf ``was performing the role of a `chowkidar` (watchman) for Punjab``.

Similarly, Pakistan Oppressed Nations Movement, in a resolution, criticised the pro-Punjab policies of the military regime and accused Punjab of ``committing dacoity`` by stopping and diverting the water from the Cheshma-Jhelum link canal.

Stating that this had led to almost total destruction of agriculture sector in Sindh, the organisation said ``Bengalis and Mujibur Rehman were not in favour of separation but they were forced (to go for this option)``, the dailies quoted the resolution as saying.

The MQM chief had earlier made similar statements while commenting on the ``discrimination`` by Punjab against all other provinces and claimed that Pakistan could disintegrate if similar situation continued.

Ms. Versey :

When ``Hindu Kashmiri`` resident in Kashmir has virtually become an oxymoron, how can you fault a Hindu Kashmiri for carry certain pre-conceptions ?

-Arun Gupta

Re: Hobbyty

``Does your moral compass include the same sentiment for those hundreds and thousands of Muslims who were evicted from their homes and killed in India, by fanatical Indians? ``

Absolutely. Any innocent Muslim or minority killed in India during/after partition is a shame under whose weight India must labor long and hard. There can be no escaping from the responsibility of protecting the vulnerable.

Re: YLH

YLH, I will not counter you lest it give credence to a belief that if one community `started` it, the other was right to `respond`, and to not further dengirate the memory of the innocent dead. Both were wrong, and the collective guilt that we all bear (of which there is plenty to go around, and was compounded by a lack of any post-partition trials) is one of the reasons why neither country has yet thought it fitting to build a memorial to the thousands who died.

There are thousands of stories of personal tragedy, and my own family`s is not unique. Blame fixing now, when it is too late, cannot honor the dead -- it can only dishonor them. The best way to honor them would be to take steps that this should never happen again, and that false pride or misplaced chauvinism not be allowed to get out of hand.

Tahmed

A noble sentiment. You play into the hands of those who hate us and our ilk. Which Indian on any of these boards stood up to be counted for any Pakistani or Muslim? But, OK - I acknowledge Shammi`s personal tragedy at the Hands of Pakistanis is more valid than those suffered by Muslims at the hands of Indians.

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``its possible to think the taliban are horrible and also think the present campaign is against basic human values.``(slinky)

Dear shandana:

This is NOT a problem where quantum mechanic`s uncertainty principle can be applied without any qualms.

You HAVE TO DRAW a line somewhere between the balck and the white -- you have to take a stand somwhere -- you cannot hunt with the hounds and run with the hares as well -- you can`t eat your cake and have it too -- you cannot say that the campaign against the horrible Nazi was against ``basic human values`` -- can you?

As such, you cannot equate the acts of criminals -- with the acts of punishment meted out to them -- as justice to their victims.

Similarly, you cannot equate Talibans with anti Talibans -- because the Talibans like the Nazis --were all about -- AGAINST BASIC HUMAN VALUES.

What I see -- behind this ``veiled`` ambivalence of a progressive woman journalist -- is that despite efforts to be objective and even handed -- her Islamist slip is still showing between the lines.

hobbyt #73 You write to Shammi ``Does your moral compass include the same sentiment for those hundreds and thousands of Muslims who were evicted from their homes and killed in India, by fanatical Indians?``

I think we should acknowledge what was done wrong to others by thugs from ``our side`` before we demand the same of the others. I can fully understand the injustice that was done to Shammi`s family by thugs in Pakistan since the same injustice was done to my family by thugs in India. It will go to the eternal shame of both Indians and Pakistanis that nothing was done to either stop the killings or to bring thugs on either side to justice.

If we really care about the killing or deprivation of innocent people, we must not care whether the innocent people are ``ours`` or ``theirs``. Indeed, our responsibility is to make sure that injustices done on our side are corrected. If we simply point to injustices done to ``us`` without first acknowledging injustices done to others, then surely we are very small individuals indeed. Hobbyty, I hope you will think about this and reconsider your response to Shammi.

Hi . . . as the author of the article, I think I have some rights on your time on whether you write right or left or left of centre . . . and I did spend some time on it, I would like to know if any of you are looking at

(a) the tongue in cheek aspects of it and please to give me your own tongue in cheek responses (yes, Sadna, you are correct American Chop Suey is only available in India and Pakistan, more fools us . . .) instead of all of us getting into these India-Pakistan arguments which have been gone through before and

(b) the point of view on my late cousin being Phizo`s grandson donning Indian Army colours . . .

Stuka, I just love the idea of a Delhi versus Bombay article on chowk, pehle aap?

Farzana, the infidel stuff has to do with your believing my children when they say the Merc has no engine, it has it has I just got to fix it and a lot more. (Others on this site, please excuse, there is this Merc lying unfixed outside my home which has become a marital discord thingie . . . and everybody pulls my leg on it)

I am not going to answer any of the India versus Pakistan stuff, please appreciate ``is hamam mein hum sub nange hain`` and ``kisko yaad hai kee kub aapka caravan aayaa thaa Ganga yaa Sindhu ke kinare`` . . . 80-90% of Indians & Pakistanis (I think) dont give a rat`s tail on who is in power doing what as they go about looking for their next meal so let us give them a chance is I think what all of us want to say but don`t.

Timshel.

Stuka:

I take your point. Maybe 50 years is not enough.

Gowardan:

Please! If pro Pakistan, Pro Kashmir and Pro Muslims is anti Indian - then so be it.