What I Want Pakistan’s CEO To Do

Ref ylh-Veeresh

``Sorry Veeresh, but it is one of your chaps who brought the whole thing up again``

Hey Veeresh,

are you recruiting chaps? please, please can I be one of your chaps?

(I hope there is Pilsner and kababs and nubile women in choti-choti chaddees involved :-)

Anyone for placards :)?

Throughout his visit:
MUSHARRAF HOLD NATIONAL ELECTIONS!
GENERAL LET YOUR PEOPLE RULE!

At his press conferences:

LET 140 MILLION OTHER PAKISTANIS BE HEARD TOO!

At the summit:

MAKE HISTORY! FREE YOUR 140 MILLION BROTHERS FROM DICTATORSHIP!


At Ajmer:
HUMANS ARE MORTAL, NATIONS CARRY ON
LET PAKISTANIS VOTE AND TAKE CHARGE TODAY !

THOSE WHOM YOU LOVE SHOULD ELECT THEIR OWN LEADERS!

Re: Hobbyty #66

``Sons and daughters of the same mother are we?``

Perhaps, you should hear this audio excerpt of Altaf Hussain of MQM:

http://www.mqm.org/audio_news/zeetvencounter-1.ram

http://www.mqm.org/audio_news/zeetvencounter-2.ram

http://www.mqm.org/audio_news/zeetvencounter-3.ram

MaheshG

Sorry for being repetative. I think my postings here are colored by the posts by Indians on A. Sarwari`s board. It did not ever occur to me that as a Pakistani, I had a right to have a say so in whatever identity the Indian choose for him or herself. Indian posts on Sawari board and here by Veeresh (wants to see which turkic and saracen) and to some degree even Farzana`s post (Ataturk or the lackey Maulana Azad, India as Spiritual inspiration, as if partition did not happen, Pakistan does not exist as other than an Indian appendage), seem to suggest that Indians object to any Pakistani identity outside of parameters of ``Indian``. For Instance, note how many objected to anything ``Islamic``, or Turkic or Persian or arab. They want more Indus and Mohenjo, something with which even they have no connection, over an identity that seeks to link us closer to Muslim countries and culture. I just think that it is scary that Indians have in mind for us, some of the same stuff Muslims in India experience.

Shammi 67

Does your moral compass include the same sentiment for those hundreds and thousands of Muslims who were evicted from their homes and killed in India, by fanatical Indians? Or is Indian pain, better, more painful, more moral than Pakistani pain?

If it is then, then certainly, our moral compass is different.

Shammi 68

That is a rather perceptive article. Mr. Musharraf as President, seems to have more to do with constitutional solutions than anything else.

So long as Pakistan fails to develop a system of governance and administration suited to Pakistan as a single unit, it will always be open to charges of whether it is ``genuine``, or ``true`` democracy and by the very same people who when they were in ``empire`` business, ensured that ``democracy`` got wide spread play in the jails they maintained.

President Musharraf? a good thing? good for Pakistani lower middle and middle class, good for the development of politics in Pakistan, (but still a further restructuring will have to be done a little later). Bad for landowner politicans, violent sectarian political parties, bureaucracy and those who think it`s the function of the state to subsidise the meals of the citizen and not the enabling of the citizen to feed him or herself.

basically the indentity a hindian (thanks to urstruly) has of a paki (in parts of India this has a different meaning - ask any Andhraite) is that of a person

(a) high on the tenets of a mindless mullah (for the prophet (PUBH) couldnot have uttered the stuff the mullah spew)

(b) high on afghani

(c) has AK42 in one hand a churi in the other a grenade in his mouth and an A-Bomb tied to his goolies ready to set it of in a moments notice

(d) a neandrethal

(e) undereducated goon ready and willing to not only take himself and his people back to the stone ages but every one around who doesnot agree with him

(f) the beard and body cleansing part is optional.

Now this image of a paki is pretty scary isit not.

Now this is also the image in other parts of the wprld (to which you have add the container ship goods).

I wish the likes of urstruly would try to resolve this image but then I guess he is also one who is high on afghani and cannot see his elbow from hindside.

hobbyty 66

``It`s scary that Indians have an opinion on what Pakistani identity should be``.

You repeat the same lie over and over hoping Indians will buy it. It may get some barely adult and brainwashed Pakistanis excited with indignation (that may be all you are aiming at) but it has no effect on Indians. Indians do not care what your identity is so long as it is not just anti-Indian. If you define yourself as an anti-Indian, be gracious enough to expect that Indians will happily return the favor with plenty of interest. Why crib then?

You have your freedom to choose your identity from a range of identities available to you. We have the freedom to decide what opinion we should have of your choice if you are going to use your `identity` as an excuse to oppose everything Indian.

I know this wont stop you. You will go on repeating your lie on other boards at other times.

Farzana:

Okay where do I begin. I guess I have to realize the limitation of interacting in a medium such as this. If we were to have a face to face conversation, and I were to say exactly what I said in my previous post, I wouldn`t even have had the need to explain myself. Would have been obvious to you that I was kidding. In fact the purpose was not to yank your chain at all but bring forth the rwo sets of rules that exist. If I, with my Hindu, Punjabi refugee background, being a military brat to boot, would have said the same stuff that you usually say, I would be looked upon by my peers as a statesman like person. You on the other hand get offers for free tickets to Pakistan/Kabul etc. I still say take them up on the offer. I bet you can exchange a one way ticket to Kabul for a round trip to Kathmandu ;)Great place that...

``People like you who applaud the media warriors``...WOW People like me huh?? what do you know about me that you would make such a sweeping statement?? In fact, substitute ``People like you`` for Blacks, Jews, Mozzies, Dhotis, Coons, Honky...hey, you pretty much come to the root of every conflict in the world. Not that I am accusing you, repeat NOT, of being a bigot, but I`m sure you are aware of the effect of language.

The ``sweet secularists`` and their Muslim drivers?? To be very honest, you kinda lost me there. Why the Muslim drivers?? I`m not one of those liberals that you know the truth about coz you have seen us talk at parties ;) (from one of your earlier articles) I carry my opinions on my sleeve, but in this case I have no clue what you are talking about, but I wouldn`t begrudge anyone the right to go to a wine tasting jamboree. Heck I`d go....

``Pity that you need to depend on love...`` actually more`s the pity that I don`t. Coz I don`t have anyone willing to sponsor my trips. In fact I pity you if you don`t either. And NO I`M NOT QUESTIONING YOUR INTEGRITY. Hey I know how it is to speak against a crowd. Try defending a Republican administration in a liberal city like Boston. Ok, I don`t get as much flak as you, but hey its a start.

HobbyTy:

Dude, I wasn`t begrudging UrsTruly his right to hold an opinion. Just trying to expose the hollowness of those opinions. I guess its a question of interpretation, but what you refer to as ``peace with dignity`` came through to me as a call for peace with complete victory. Even Bal Thakeray wants peace, but not the kind of peace you`d like. The peace being sought is one of compromise.

By the way, I think there is some validity in your opinion about Indian and Pakistani identities needing to be seperate, though I think you go a bit too far. Have you heard about the Canadian beer commercial which came out a few months back. Reason it became hugely popular was coz they were yanking Yankee chain and emphasizing the Canadian identity and getting a kick out of it. Our countries are 50 yrs old. If Pakistan has insecurities, so does India. Give it time, both nations will mature internally and externally. Though, the complaints of Indian cultural imperialism will always exist, similar to European and Canadian issues about the states.

Cheers

Stuka.

Somebody congratulated me on the choice of a nick name. Creddit goes to the Commando comics I grew up reading...

Shammi,

The massacres at Partition were the result of the fanaticism, bigotry, and intolerance displayed by Hindus and sikhs to the Pakistan demand. It is an accepted fact (as human beings we dont rub in your face) that Hindus and Sikhs started the violence at partition, but I dont wish to convince you of anything, because murders happened on both sides, and just because Hindus and Sikhs demeaned themselves is no excuse for Muslims demeaning themselves also. Those who wish to see the quotes and sources please go to Aisha Sarwari`s latest board, for I am not going to repost to educate those who are beyond education.

In any event this is an old and boring debate, in which Indians are not going to budge from their wrong position that they will continue to hold till end of time.

-YLH

PS Sorry Veeresh, but it is one of your chaps who brought the whole thing up again. I am content with letting you chaps have your version of History, no matter how messed up, or illogical it may be, or how pathetically devoid of proper Political Science, Economics, and History, these computer science cum political theorists on chowk are.

From The Economist:

``He (Musharraf) has appointed himself indefinitely, but is likely either to seek legislative endorsement for his rule, or to limit his first term to five years once democracy resumes.``

``It is too early to say whether such arrangements will leave Pakistan better off than it was before the general’s coup. Big issues, such as how much power the federal government will devolve to the provinces, are still unsettled. General Musharraf will no doubt say that a strong presidency and a constitutional role for the army are preferable to lurching from democracy to dictatorship and back, as Pakistan has done throughout its 54-year history. Vital policies, such as economic reform and efforts to counter corruption, will perhaps be shielded from parliamentary whim. But it is difficult to see how anything that could be recognised as real democracy can develop under an indirectly elected president who is unanswerable to any institution in the land.``

``General Musharraf can now be greeted by India’s prime minister as President Musharraf at their first summit, to be held in India, starting on July 14th. He may even elicit a “Mr President” from George Bush if he attends the UN General Assembly in the autumn in New York. But that does not make him a democrat.``

Is Musharraf`s new position good for Pakistan or just good for the general in `supreme national interest` to guide the nation towards `real`, `genuine`, `true` democracy?

Re: Hobbyty #36

``And yes, you have got it right, I`m proud of Pakistan, of every miserable and beautiful grain of sand, dust and dirt and of Pakistanis, regardless of their shortcomings``

Well, I suppose that your pride would have come in the way of offering help/succour to any number of my kin who were slaughtered in the post-partition by crazed fanatics (`regardless of shortcomings`) who were acting in the name of Pakistan. Your moral compass is not quite the same as mine.

Frazana

Thanks the reply, always rewarding talking to you. It`s scary that Indians have an opinion on what Pakistani identity should be.

Siblings forget their mother? Sons and daughters of the same mother are we? Did we have the same mother when Britania was the mother country? Ham shireagi exists with those who acknowledge it.

Self destructive? How? And what is wrong with being Ham-Sahyeh? Isn`t this better than a false hamshiregi?

SameerJB #45
``They must protest inlarge numbers, visible to international media,``.. ``above all for the rights of Pakistanis to choose their own rulers.``

Well said!! Delhiwallahs, piously sporting the tag of ``largest democracy``, India International Centre seminar-wallahs, JNU wallahs, khadi wallahs, swadeshi wallahs, are you all listening??

Time to show something for all those soothing ego-massaging articles on the great Indian experiment.

Here is one participant in spirit at least. MUSHARRAF THEY ARE YOUR OWN PEOPLE !
GIVE THEM THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT !

MaheshG

((Romair, I can`t understand why you still think that Indians are targetting civilians in Kashmir. You think we have nothing better to do?))

actually no..we dont think you have anything better to do in kashmir...dont u read the papers sir? www.dawn.com...its a pakistani newspaper..very respectable (as in, they generally give both sides of the picture)...read it for the next 2 weeks and then tell us what you think..denying what u have is hilarious..and sickening to the core

hobbyty,

I don`t understand why you get the idea that Indians are out there to prevent you from reaching your destiny. Who are we to do that anyway? I don`t see why you have to constanly talk about Pakistani identity being threatened by Indians.

Farzana Versey# 54

I have three comments on your lengthy post:

KASHMIR:
The condemnation of murders, rapes, and human rights abuses by Hindia using the state apparatus against the people it calls its own, must be absolute. There are no ifs-ands-or-buts as far as murder is concerned. A polity that so vehemently claims itself to be the epitome of democracy and secularism must not let get away with the murder. It specially is pathetic when you don’t find a single voice of reason and with balls (excuse my language) among 1 billion people who can call a murder a murder. It must stop. The human values about murder are same everywhere on this planet. Does it really matter if I raise my voice to condemn it from the Mount Everest or sitting in my armchair? If only solution to the problem of Kashmir is political solution (as it should be in a democracy) then why murder and mayhem inflicted by the Government of Hindia?

COMMENT ON PORTRAYING MUSLIMS AS ISI AGENTS ETC.
Now again it is somehow my fault that the democracy and secularism that Hindians so vehemently boast about is not working. My only fault is that I point that out. And why should I refrain from it? Well I might have looked the other way (chances of that are also slim) if there was only discrimination on jobs etc. but the Hindu lowers itself as down as to commit murder to assert himself. This is unacceptable. And such thugs must not let get away with it just because they cover their misdeeds under the garb of Secularism and Democracy. It`s a shame.

3RD COMMENT
On a lighter note, Yes, I might consider dying for you, only if you are nicer to me, and if you are as good looking as your picture that I saw on a Hindian website ;)

Ms. chowk admin, quite contrary
how does your website grow?
With beysharam liberals and horrible hindoos
And baby ghaznis all in a row..

Hold your noses, time for a diaper change..
(no offence intended to the most adorable section of `humanity` ie babies)

Anyone been to the town of Ghazna lately? Do people there have enough to eat, forget about hosting pilgrims from the Ghaznoid diaspora eager to reconnect with their supposed dynastic and `civilizational` roots? Brave words cannot be eaten(or can they?).

Ghazni must be rotating in his grave at a good spanking rpm all because of the wimpishness of his self-proclaimed descendents. HE certainly didnot get where he is by restricting his activities to his fingertips and other extremities.