An Eulogy For The Hawks

Re: SaadPAslam #129

``...entirely new structure of all of South Asia. All countries in the SAARC should be dissolved as independent federations...``

I agree. If this is carried out, a lot of our professional patriots will be put out of work.

Re: Sameer, #135

To me it is quite tragic that an educated person such as you sees Pakistan and its politics from an eye of a Punjabi and not as a Pakistani.

It is this ethnic mentality that will undo Pakistan and, if not checked, turn Pakistan into another Bosnia.

I expected better from you.

SameerJB #135
For next time, maybe we should each keep a Sindhi guy ready :).
Isn`t one of the languages spoken by Pakistanis from the Dravidian language family ? Keeping a guy speaking such a language as contingency measure(`Ms Universe runner up`) will also be judicious for next time or next-to-next time:).

Dear stuka:

``Secondly, the Joint Chief should have the rank of Cabinet Minister and should report directly to the Prime Minister/President without bureaucratic intervention``

Don`t you dare proposing a Pakistani malady for Indian civilian governance. That`s really strange.

Reply SaadPAslam #129

Two points:

One: Multiethnic states are not necessarily doomed to failure. Please consider Canada, Australia, the USA, and Switzerland. On the other hand, largely ethnically and religiously homogenous states are not automatically destined for unalloyed success either. For example Cambodia, Vietnam, North Korea, Morocco, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras and Egypt. The size of administrative units should be based on the requirements of administration - different administrative needs might be best met by different administrative borders. (Boundaries for administration of educational institutions on linguistic boundaries, for adminstration of irrigation systems on catchment area boundaries, etc.)

Two: People of different ethnicities, religions and languages generally live geographically mixed together (to varying degrees and concentrations) right across the subcontinent. The people of the subcontinent suffered terribly when an attempt was made to physically separate them by religion. Repetitions of this on the basis of language/ethnicity would result in even more violence and death. Surely that`s not a good idea. The last partition we went through was not a success - more muslims live in India today than in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. I`m not suggesting we turn the clock back, what`s done is done, and today we all love our countries as they are. But surely we should study history and try not to repeat our mistakes vis a vis making ordinary people suffer when it is avoidable.

Among the reasons that Khalistan failed to eventuate were (1) 48% of the population of Indian Punjab is not Sikh. And (2) at least 50% of Sikhs live outside Punjab. I can`t think of many ethnic or religious communities in the subcontinent who are not similarly mingled with others and spread out to many areas where they are minorities. More ethno-religous partitions would make the last batwara look like a picnic.

FROM THE TIMES OF INDIA

There`s a Path to Peace

Dare to Dream, Dare to be Different

By BEENA SARWAR

PAKISTANI painter Salima Hashmi laughingly recalls an art seminar she participated in, hosted by a Japanese organisation, where the hosts apprehensively eyed her and the Indian delegate, wondering when hostilities would break out. ``We told them that if anything, we would be ganging up against them - which we did, because of their colonial attitude.``

Even those serving in the armed forces of India and Pakistan bond with colleagues across the border. Alumni of the Rashtriya Indian Military College (formerly the Royal Indian Military College), have had at least three reunions since 1996 in India and in Pakistan - despite the fact that retired military personnel, and even their children, are not usually eligible for visas. Visas, for that matter, are not easy for anyone, except for group travellers with some influence.

These army reunions are significant. Cynics dismiss them as easy enough for retired officers, but the fact is that the desire for friendly contact has proved stronger than the indoctrination of years in service and active combat against the `enemy` country. There are several retired officers in the Pakistan-India Peoples Forum for Peace and Democracy which facilitates people-to-people dialogue. Through the Forum, hundreds of ordinary people from both countries have come together every year since 1995. Our governments grudgingly grant visas and special permissions, like allowing border-crossing on foot (not among the three approved methods of air, train and, since 1999, bus), because of which Forum members, most of whom pay their own way, can travel cheaply.

It`s not just due to international pressure that these meetings are allowed. Those in power themselves want peace. Locked in the rhetoric of politics, they can`t bring themselves publicly to take on positions that they privately concede to. Any point of contact between an Indian and a Pakistani has the potential for bonding. Take the aggressive flag-raising and lowering ceremony at the Wagah border. When there is no audience, the same guards chat, share food and other items. My friend and television journalist, Barkha Dutt, writes with touching honesty about reporting at Kargil (Himal South Asia, June 2001). The war, she found, was ``a theatre of contradiction that embraced courage and fear, head and heart. The very men who scoffed at your suggestion that the neurosis in the India-Pakistan love-hate relationship may yet subside, would in the next breath regale you with stories of bonding sessions with the `enemy` across the border.`` Like the Sardar earlier posted as a commander at the Punjab border: His Pakistani counterpart had smuggled him across one evening, ``whisked him away in a car with tinted windows and given him the grand tour of Lahore...Others piped in with similar anecdotes of cigarettes and books shared at the post...``

These were soldiers at war. But bonding is not limited to those with shared army backgrounds, language or alma mater. A West Bengali student with no ties to what is now Pakistan wept with emotion when visiting Lahore as part of the women`s `bus` delegation last spring. Barkha and I, listening to woman after woman talk about what this visit meant to her, struggled with our own emotions. ``Do we report, or do we participate?`` we asked each other. We ended up doing both. An engineering student from Lahore volunteering at the meeting was teary-eyed as his new Indian friends departed. He confessed that he had until now hated India. Why did he volunteer? Curiosity. He had never met an Indian before. Now he knew that `they` were people, just like `us`. ``I don`t agree with a lot of their policies. But at least we can talk about it.``

Echoes of the observations made just months earlier by visiting Indian students from Ramjas College. Not all interaction is emotional. The customs officials who make the lives of travellers hell on the ironically (or prophetically) named Samjhauta (`Conciliation`) Express between Attari and Lahore, have it all worked out. Mazhar Zaidi, a colleague from Lahore, found that officials on both sides accept `enemy currency`: later they simply share the booty. Think of the mutual benefits if our rulers started sharing resources.

Think, as friend Isa Daudpota from Islamabad urges, of Pakistan and India as `buddies`. In a letter to newspapers, he suggests: ``To loosen up for the mid-July Musharraf-Vajpayee meeting, try dreaming a bit. Imagine a joint South Asian cricket team...! This seems outlandish...Think of a common market for this region... Think of students from Pakistan going South, rather than North, to study information technology...`` Lata Mangeshkar singing in Pakistan and Abida Parveen in India; our agriculturists learning from each other`s mistakes... Of course, there is `the big stumbling block`, Kashmir - both the Pakistani and Indian parts.``

But for now, as Isa says, ``let`s think of Kashmiris as just humans wishing to lead peaceful lives. Forget that they are Hindus, Sikhs, Christians or Muslims. Let them be free to live as they wish, and don`t covet them and their land. If division is necessary let that happen too. Do that soon - in July. Don`t spend years around roundtables getting fat on conference food.`` A conference in Islamabad last July brought together top print and television journalists from the most powerful Indian and Pakistani media organisations - barely a year after Kargil. Participants condemned the media for fuelling hostilities, and stressed the need to change reporting about the `other`. After his closing dinner address, as General Musharraf opened the floor for questions, Indian journalist Bharat Bhushan muttered: ``Not a good move. All this goodwill will disappear.`` Sure enough, most questions were geared towards extracting a response to feed the next day`s headlines rather than promoting understanding.

But the blame for tensions cannot be laid at the media`s door alone. The media plays an important role in shaping perceptions, but they must also `report`. And there`s not much positive to report with politicians either silent on this issue or making a scapegoat of the other side. Privately, they express a desire for peace and its ensuing economic benefits. Publicly, they keep mum.

It`s time they followed the people in the quest for peace. Lift the visa restrictions, allow publications, music, and movies to be legally marketed. The future is there for all to see. Do our leaders, self-appointed or elected, have the vision and courage to make it happen?

(The author is editor of The News on Sunday, Pakistan)

nasah #132:

[An Indo-Pak Mushaira has been planned in the Haveli where President General Musharraf was born, on July 14, 2001, when the Pakistani leader meets the Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee in a much-trumpted summit, it was reliably learnt here.

It is expected that the two leaders will attend the Mushaira (poetry reading peculiar to the sub-continent) but there was no immediate confirmation if they will attend.

``It all depends whether the two leaders will be able to grab some time from their packed schedule,`` a source said. But it is likely that they will listen to the poetry by the subcointent`s reputed poets, the source said. ]

I have a title for the Dawn editorial. Mahabharata part II: Indus Valley loses again to Ganges plains.

Musharraf dealt a blow to Indus Valley team by scoring the decisive goal against his own team, a move popularly known as Kargil offensive. He did not like Nawaz Sharif and Inder K Gujral speaking frankly in Punjabi about Indus Valley team that would have lead to a victory for Indus Valley team with Nusrat Fatheh Ali Khan, Ghulam Ali, Hans Raj Hans and Manpreet Akhtar entertaining the victoious team at Lahore. After taking over the captaincy of Indus Valley team through back door, a celebratioin in Agra is planned to toast the victory of Ganges plains. Entertainment menu include mushaira in the language of Ganges plains, paan and paandan, gao takyas, sherwanis, choorhidar pajamas,........

Were 4 years and countless casualties justified the difference between ``tuhada Kashmir tuhada te sada Kashmir sada`` and ``aapka Kashmir aapka aur hamara Kashmir hamara``?

Stuka #130
I posted a reply on the other thread by mistake:
http://www.chowk.com/bin/showr.cgi?f=mhussain_jun2601&n=00#reply122

A column from Dawn:

A poetic prelude to the summit

By Muhammad Rafique

An Indo-Pak Mushaira has been planned in the Haveli where President General Musharraf was born, on July 14, 2001, when the Pakistani leader meets the Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee in a much-trumpted summit, it was reliably learnt here.

It is expected that the two leaders will attend the Mushaira (poetry reading peculiar to the sub-continent) but there was no immediate confirmation if they will attend.

``It all depends whether the two leaders will be able to grab some time from their packed schedule,`` a source said. But it is likely that they will listen to the poetry by the subcointent`s reputed poets, the source said.

Ahmed Faraz and Mehmood Shaam will represent Pakistan while the names of those representing India are not yet known.

Atal Bihari Vajpayee is himselfa poet, while the Pakistani leader is reported to be a lover of poetry. ``So it will be anauspicious start to begin a peace process between the two countries, bitter enemies on the disputed state of Jammu and Kashmir ``, said an observer.

Meanwhile Ahmed Faraz, the poet-turned-ambassador-of-peace has returned to Pakistan after an eight-day sojourn to Delhi.

Speaking to Dawn, the poet said: `My visit has been a tremendous success. A vast majority of the Indians want peace as do the Pakistanis. We have shared problems and shared poverty. To get rid of our problems we must find ways to live in peace. Arms race will not help the cause. Together we can have a very progressive future for our teeming millions. This is a chance of a life-time.

He added: ``A majority lives below the poverty line in both the countries. Should they continue living that way. There are great avenues for cooperation in trade, culture and social fields. We both now have the nuclear deterrent. We must not use it for sheer destruction that they will cause.``

The poet said that he had met leading intellectuals in Delhi including Kuldip Nayar, Khushwant Singh and Yunus Dehlvi. He also addressed Delhi Press Club and fielded many questions by hall full of journalists. He was also much in demand by the print and electronic media, including widely viewed, not only in India but Pakistan, Zee News. ``This amply proves the keen interest of the media in promoting bilateral ties between the two neighbours``, he said.

Faraz is not known for supporting military regimes, but this time he is backing General Musharraff.

Enthusiasm for peace, says Nasir Zaidi, a fellow poet and a friend, recalling his self-imposed exile in the Zia days in London. But he also has his critics, says Akhter Usman, a poet and a critic: ``He is not a good choice as an ambassador of peace. Mushtaq Ahmed Yusufi, the eminent humourist would have been a better choice.``

That is a matter of opinion, but Faraz remains vastly popular in both the countries.

He said that poems penned by him and late Indian poet Ali Sardar Jafri two years ago and now put together in a pamphlet form were in great demand in India. They are also circulating among the intellectuals in Pakistan. They are in Urdu, translated also in Hindi and English. They were exchanged between the two sides.

Samples: Ahmed Faraz:

Friends I`ve come to your country this time

Neither for musical company nor poetry

If it is a question of your ego

I extend my hand in friendship, first.

Ali Sardar Jafri (late):

May the beautiful of the Khyber

and those of the city of Lahore live long.

May the youth of Kashmir,

the earthly paradise abide.

May the warmth of the songs of fidelity

continue to emanate from our lips

and may the epics of love

Continue to be penned in the book of the hearts.

Here is a quartet from me for that mushaira:

hum kiye jate hai dil se tujh sey mil jane ki baat

dil ko lekin shuk ke hai yeh dil ke bahlane ki baat

Shore qaum-o-deen mein zikre rawadari zeya

kis ko foorsut hai suney tujh jaise diwane ki baat

Dear scout:

Re:#124

``I love my country, I know it`s flaws, and I`m on my way towards helping it out,..``

That`s a sure guarantee that Pakistan will NEVER become a ``failed`` State.

More power to you.

Re: Nasah#69 in ‘Quest for Power’ (Civic Center)

“Did you read Keerthik`s trash? What is your reaction.”

Same as yours. He could have written the same article with half the number of words, without using any high-falutin’ language. I am not in favor of increasing tension with Pakistan. We should be doing the opposite. His recommendations 3,4,11(?)and 15 are highly irresponsible.

Sadna:

If Advani is proposing a Presidential form of government, exactly what is the problem with that?

The United States has a presidential form of government and is yet a democracy. If India was to adopt a Presidential form of governement, at least we would get a stable governement, not vulnerable to the whims of a Jayalalitha. The most shameful event in Indian political history was the fall of the BJP led coalition gov`t because of 1 VOTE, and without an alternative governement being in place.

Regarding the presence of a Unified Chief of the Armed Forces, that is exactly the kind of reform we need, among others, as far as defence management is concerned. The lack of co-ordination and inter-service rivalry has been the bane of the Armed forces. Secondly, the Joint Chief should have the rank of Cabinet Minister and should report directly to the Prime Minister/President without bureaucratic intervention. I agree that there needs to be civilian control of the Armed Forces, but civilian control does not automatically translate into bureaucratic control. The complete inertia of defense procurement is a result of complete control by Ministry of Defense civilians who lack the interest and capability of understanding military needs.

With regards to respect for the constitution of the country, let me put it to you this way. One of the greatest constitutions of the world is that of the U.S. Its greatness lies in the fact that the framers realized that they did not, could not possibly have all the right answers for all time to come. Therefore, they included a clause for changing the constitution as and when the need arose and with due process. I am not an expert on constitutional law, but don`t similar provisions exist for the Indian constitution. Is there anything wrong about not respecting the Indian constitution in its entirety? After all, change is a necessary consequence of dissatisfaction. There is nothing condemnable in wanting to amend the constitution and bring it in line with present day requirements.

I agree with the future presented for Pakistan in this article i.e. restructuring into smaller manageable regions. However, I would present the same solution for India itself. Despite its recent successes in terms of economic and international acceptance, no one can deny the fact that India is an underdeveloped third world country. This particularly stems from the fact that it is not a single nation at all. It is more of a union of nations comprising people of different ethnic, social and religious attributes. These are the very reasons for continued unmitigated poverty, illiteracy, racism, corruption, bigotry and ignorance existing in every aspect of life there. In addition, countless regional separatist movements, from Kashmir and Khalistan in North to Assam and Nagaland in the South East, speak of the state of the union. In these terms the cohesive factors binding Pakistan i.e. a common religious identity are a lot more justifiable.

What I purpose is an entirely new structure of all of South Asia. All countries in the SAARC should be dissolved as independent federations. Instead, regional governments and states composed of, and based on ethnic fractions should be formed i.e. Kashmir for Kashmiris, Khyber for Phatans, Tamilland – Tamils, Khalistan for Sikhs etc. The government in these states should have complete autonomy i.e. their own education system, police and revenue generation. At the same time all these states would join together to form a single South Asian Federation with a common defense, foreign and economic policy. Such a federation should be run by a body (e.g. senate) comprising equal representation from all these states wanting to take part. This model will be a lot like EU, as the South Asia in terms of ethnic diversity is comparable to Europe.

This model is based on broad thinking and definitely needs a lot of refinement. However, my point is that instead imagining India as a superpower, which unfortunately is an absurd illusion at best, lets think of how to take the entire South Asian region forward.

re: acheron2

Even if Indians attack first the chances are good that we can take out a couple of their cities. I am not sure that even a dickhead like Advani would like to see Dehli or Bombay wiped out in exchange of a Pakistani wasteland-and I would`nt even expect Vajpayee or Jaswant to take that chance. Fall-out was also one of the things I had in mind. And no matter how much the Believers (I being one of them, alhumdolillah) might wish that the Almighty will ensure the winds to blow east for the next ten years after the bombs fall, its a safe bet not have it as a factor in our calculations. Its like the angels who are supposed to come down on the battlefield to aid the momineen. The fact is that there have been many no-shows.

Regarding Sadat, I`ll just say that I usually associate the word brilliant with the likes of von Manstein, but you are welcome to admire this fellow and Nasser. Lets leave it at that.

And no matter what your brothers might say, bharatiya_m, Manstein is not a character on Beavis and Butthead.

jay #103, ``Pakistan has moved in the direction of intolerance, the young of pakistan, YLH, aisha, scout and others do not fill me with optimism. Waht I see is only denial that the events have moved, no assuming of responsibility, it is all slogans, flippant remarks, no love for the country.``

Aisha and YLH can speak for themselves, but I for one have a life beyond Chowk, which you will not and do not see, so you have no right to make judgements about my love for my country through what I type on an anonymous opinionated forun such as Chowk.

Take it easy, and don`t think too much, chotasa brain toot jaega.

bhartiya musalman #104, ``.I do believe on Average Indians have a much much higher IQ than Pakis``

What happened to you then? ;)

`` But please remember Pakistan does not mean much to Pakis except in juxtaposition to India.``

Oh really? Please put down that reefer. Ask the families of Pakistanis (other than your relatives) who found a home in Pakistan after the Partition, who built Pakistan from scratch, from teh bottom up, who developed a distinct identity, people like my grandparents, my parents, and in the future, myself what Pakistan means to us.

Now please, leave us alone, Pakistan obsessed freak.