Brahmin and Mullah

Do some pathetic losers really believe millions of Muslims and Christians get killed in India every day or even every year? Proof please, apart from your personal hatred of Hindus?

Yes and this number seems unknown too:
More than 1 million Afghans have died in Afghanistan since jehad began, and there is no sign that the war is going to end soon or that the sponsors of Taliban (where do the arms and funds come from?) are worried by this figure. Maybe Muslims can kill fellow-Muslims at any scale without any outcry in the `Islamic world`?

sb #331
I guess I was thinking of the UP/Bihar scene. The so-called upper-caste party like BJP has been trying out alliances with BSP/Samata. Now BJP is trying to reach an agreement with a `backward` Muslim party, with promise of reservations.

And see it this way, suppose Mayawati/Kanshi Ram had rivals within the communities they claim to represent. Then these rivals would need to go looking for supporters outside their communities.

I know, UP is currently where TN was 30-40 years ago in the `disadvantaged` caste dynamics, one can only hope UP will not end up with quite such a roster of reservations.

Well, I agree with you about 50 years not being a long time, but for certain types of changes 50 years can even be too much time.

Someone was describing a village in UP. No bigshot pols from here, so its pretty neglected. The low-interest or interest-free loans offered by the government are availed by members of every caste, thats fine, but with no intention of paying back. The `upper`-caste get away with this scot-free due to their connections, while the `lower`-caste ones languish in jail for the same offence. And rural indebtedness to moneylenders anyway continues, with guess who at the bottom of the pile.

Apparently, what social workers prefer to do is discourage availing of govt loans and getting those who need money to form cooperatives and essentially lend to each other. Now in how many villages would there be social workers?

Thats when you realise what if these villagers couldnot even vote? Whatever little visibility or benefits they are granted, even so much visibility would be denied easily as they would be completely off the radar with those in power not needing to care about this small village in this rural backwater.

Its no surprise that rural voting percentages are generally higher than urban voting percentages.

tamed321 #333

`` Is this why we are here on chowk? To insult one another, berate one another`s religious feelings? I hope we can aspire for something more intelligent than that.``

No, we are here on chowk to read ARTICLES on misinterpretations of the Ramayana and Hinduism, even though people like the author claim to have spent months studying Hinduism in a university course. Its OK to misinterpret Hindusim and insult Hindus by claiming our ignorance is knowledge and their knowledge is ignorance.

We are here to be lectured that `Indians donot debate caste` though it was debated even in the 1800s and in our Constitutent Assembly and in our affirmative actions and everyday in our political scene between parties in office and out of office representing every caste. It was debated on this board with Arun Gupta posting 2 long articles on castes practices in Kerala and numerous other posts.

We are here to be lectured Islam is an egalitarian religion by those who willnot allow Ahmedis to say a simple Muslim greeting without being sent to jail. By those who have often said ON CHOWK that nonMuslims can only go to hell.

We are lectured about secularism on one board while on another, a Pakistani makes an appeal on joint electorates AND NO ONE replies to his point.

Good for you, tahmed, you at least know what we are here for.

ylh #325

`` All your questions have been answered very well by a lot of chowkies on this board. I personally dont see the reason why we should continue to explain something to a person who is not only pig headed but a shameless liar!``


ylh, I donot write shameful whining lies about priesthood in Hindusim being the cause of problems in Pakistan and publish it on chowk as an article with intellectual content, I merely reply to such self-serving cr-p.


I didnot get a single answer to my question. Where was the secualr democratic Paksitani government and the people? Where was the force of egalitarian Islam? Where is the public outrage? Why isn`t there a repolling ordered?

Such a widespread use of physical threats in India to prevent polling would result in widespread outrage and repolling in India.

That more than hundred thousand women in not one but two districts couldnot vote because an Islamist party chose to use force and stand on principle unlike other Pakistanis is not an issue?

ylh, finally what have I got to gain or lose whether women in NWFP got to vote or not?

But after being lectured to ``follow Pakistan`s lead`` in separating religion and governance, and how fake is India and Indian`s secularism and democracy, you and others arenot going to get away scot free by blaming Indians and `Hindu culture` for problems in Pakistan.

SN #319
Whole articles will be published on Ramayana,Brahmins, castes, Indian leaders as the sole evils facing Pakistanis, thats fine, (then its an academic discussion). The `insult to Islam` is essentially Indians not taking all this self-serving cr-p quietly .

#329

Dost-Mittar

[``And compare the graph of Muslim Population in India with those of Pakistani hindus, you will see a steep rise in the former and a slow decline in the latter``].

#: 324

dost-mittar

justadesi#307

`` People talk about Kurds being killed, but conveniently forget to mention the million of muslims and christians killed in India each day from the so-called peace loving Hindus there``

And still their numbers keep on increasing. Allah is great!

First is there any co relation between growing reproducing & being neumerous and happiness safe & security INDEX.For if populosness was anygood then ,India & china being most dense persq Mile of ppl. would be the utopian society.

Another point when you talk about graphical ``STEEP RISE`` for muslim & ``DECLINE`` for hindus are you not aware of one of the major cause of LESS hindu (not decline) is b/c of selective foeticides of FEMALE genders.A conservative estimate m,ay out as much as 80 million such female stopped from growing up in last 15 -20 yrs.Now muslim population in India being 10% would account for 100 million & some .If you have 80 million less hindu than actuasl number stopped by HINDUS themselves ,& you are using such atrocious practice to BLAME THE MUSLIM,Minority ?????????????????

sb #

I actually dont know much about M N Srinivas` works. I did just one course in Sociology during my post graduation and he is extensively covered in it. But I could easily relate to his works bcos 1) I have lived in rural India for considerable part of my life and 2) He wrote mostly about South India.

Anyways he expired last year and please have a look at the following link. Very informative about him and his works..

Cheers,

jntuece99

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Ref Pakmusalman #: 337

You wrote:

``...Indian Muslims are the lowest barbaric race with no manners, no education, no intelligence.``

But we DO make excellent kababs!!!! Don`t you think that this small redeeming feature should be mentioned in fairness?

Re Idolatry

I think this unending discussion on idol worship is the most useless discussion on chowk since the ylh-inspired series on dead historical figures. If you practice idolatry, good on ya. If you dont, good on ya as well. Whats the big deal anyway? Surely noone thinks people ACTUALLY pray to a stone as if it were God now, do they?

Hobbyty

Romila Thapar has a pretty wide list of publications. If I get the time, I will try to single out one of her books most pertinent to our discussion of caste. Will get back to you. Meanwhile if anyone else can suggest a title, pls do so.

ylh #311 I am not sure if being the ``most moderate`` is a major achievement, kind of being the ``world champion mediocrity`` :-) But sounds good, and I know you meant it as a compliment. You indicate some issues you and I disagree on. The issues I have with you are as follows:

a. I think you pay too much importance to men (ataturk, jinnah, gandhi and so forth). Each one of them had some good ideas, and I happen to think that the idea of non-violence is the most profound. Small minds talk of personalities, bigger minds discuss ideas. So please dont brand me a Gandhiite, but I certainly will agree to stand on the side of non-violence. This is the same thing as saying I would not like to be called a Mohammedan, even though I happen to agree with the basic message Mohammed conveyed.

b. Nationlism: I think we need to think beyond nationalism, and start thinking in terms of humanity at large. The biggest service we can do to Pakistan is by promoting peace in the region in whatever way we can. Any by promoting peace in a huge region like South Asia, we are benefitting all humanity. There is no conflict between loving Pakistan and loving India at the same time, between loving muslim culture and loving hindu culture at the same time. Our lives will be that much richer, and we will be less of a problem and more of a solution for the rest of the humanity.

c. Actually, I am not sure of any other issues, but please feel free to raise them.

SN #319 OK. I am sorry if that post offended you. I do find Sadna`s constant berating of Pakistanis to be irritating. Her presumptions regarding the Islamic teachings are also totally - see for example the post that prompted by response where she starts by taking as given certain incorrect things about Islamic teachings. Had this been the first time she had such I post, I would have written a different kind of a response. But this is a person who has been on chowk for months and constantly plays the same tune without any concern. Is this why we are here on chowk? To insult one another, berate one another`s religious feelings? I hope we can aspire for something more intelligent than that.

friend #320 Any barber will do, I am sure. You may have to wait your turn though, while they find a suitable donor roach that matches your blood type.

PS: Please dont respond while you are mad. Cool down, then come up with a clever response that will rip my Paki hide off.

One must wonder about people who find it necessary to declare ``Long Live Pakistan`` as often as they have to run to the bathroom during a day. Can you all spell I-N-S-E-C-U-R-I-T-Y? Only those with doubts about Pakistan`s continued existence will feel the need to reaffirm it.

No Indian ever finds it necessary to declare ``Long Live India,`` particularly on a randon-a$$ message board chock full of people from the wrong the side of the border. We KNOW India has lived long and will live long....we are a genuine civizilation, not the byproduct of political and religious machinations.

Anarayan 322

I get your point - PM was was also suggesting the same that is that what you called ``qualities`` and he called ``attributes`` - I got it. Thks

Eklavya #170: `Please don`t sit back and speak up only when you feel offended.`

But Eklavya, old chap, nothing you are saying prompts me to do anything but...

btw, I meant Dadeechi, from whose bones the weapons for the Devas were made, not Salya. His spine became Vajra. Talking of Vajra, the Vajrayana sect of Buddhism derives its name from the concept that the knowledge/enlightenment when it happens, happens suddenly - like a thunderbolt. It might be a factor of one`s experiences, knowledge gathered uptil that point, and more - I dont know.

jntuece #162: Ah, but what fraction the brahmin actors and directors and producers in an industry that produces the greatest number of films a year? You bet, it is reverse casteism! On a more serious note, wonder how strong the movement for a separate Telangana really is...

``Actually the confusion arises bcos, Kammas have a last name of Chaudary (not to be confused with the North Indian one) or no last name at all in North and Central Kosta region of A P. And the `Kapus` in North and Central A.P. have a surname of Naidu. But in South A.P (esp. in regions of Nellur and Chittur dist) Kammas have a surname of Naidu. Thats how the C.M. of A.P, C B Naidu, who is from Chittor dist is a kamma.``

:-) Hey, I knew all this at one time! Yes ChandrababuNaidu is a kamma. I stand corrected. But isnt it a norm to call the kapus from northern and central AP Naidus? I do remember the mayhem after Ranga`s murder in `88. Kapus asked for a slot among the BCs a few years ago - just another indicator of the social dynamics of the `hindu` society.

PS: Who is Prof M N Srinivas? I am out of touch with the news and books, I should quit now. Gail Omvedt? Thanks.