The Indus that Strayed

Gomathy

An enjoyable article. Sind is now all green - almost.

After the breakaway of Bangla desh, Sind is now the province in our country with rich art and culture as compared to others. And I must say that they are rightly proud of it and guard it jealously. Baluchistan is fully tribal and in 18 century. NWFP is tribal and very conservative. The Punjabis tend to get swayed by the religion. (I am a Punjabi)

Only the Sindhis are sticking to their 5000 year old roots.

Dost-Mittar #17

Where in Lyalpur are you from? My family comes from Harcharnpur, near to what used to be the old sabzi manDi, and our village is only 20 mins out of the city on Satyana Road... Lyalpur has become so massive now, have you ever been back there?

Although originally my family comes from Jullandhar. Where in India do you call home now?

Mrs.V,

This piece made good reading. What is it like now in Nepal - post massacre.

Why don`t you write on that?

Gomathy # 23

I am looking forward to that.

mo2000 # 21

Thanks for writing that post-and I agree with most of it. May I suggest that you write an article on the similar lines at Chowk so that it may help initialize a dialogue. Unfortunately, we lack in appreciating visionary thinking and planning for unforeseen future is still a novel and foreign idea for us. But despite that I will still insist you to write more on the subject.

I am indeed overwhelmed by the number of appreciative responses, as well as the philosophical lateral discussions that have arisen from my article. I particularly wish to thank Shirin Ahmed, and others who warmly asked me to contribute more such episodes. I haveposted two mor articles and hope you will enjoy reading them. Best regards to you all from Nepal.

Reply #: 21

mo2000

Sindh2 :2030

One good change may occur for both types of Sindhis. The stranded Pakistanis will be coming to state of Karachi and Sindh may start giving duel citizenship to Sindhis all around world including Hindu Sindhis from India. This will help Sindh to attract industry and capital , Punjabis may not like that but nearly 300 million Pakistanis will be welcoming anybody. We know the major players in international business who are Sindhi Hindus. Still there is lot affection and brotherhood and Sindhi Hindus want to prosper Sindh to as international Jews want Israel to survive and prosper. I have met many Hindu Sindhis who have lost members in 1940s and it is great credit to them they want Sindh to survive and prosper. For them it is emotional thing and they will raise international voice if operations start against Sindh by army.

State of Karachi and Sindh will be prosperous place. With coming of WTO regime the artificial protection barriers cannot be mounted. This international organization will do favor to Pakistan govt. by forcing them to follow free trade policies. I can see large multinationals from India putting Plants and Capital in State of Karachi and Sindh. The abandoned raillinks between Sindh and India will be operating and goods and services will be coming and going both ways. Punjabis will envy the resulting betterment of economy of Sindh and state of Karachi.. Cotton from Sindh will be Purchased by Indian buyers at good prices due to quality. Due to free trade Sindhi companies will have branches in Bombay. People may even go to see ‘Pakijha’ in big air conditioned theater and will not have to feel unpatriotic.

With time the agricultural income may not be dominant in economy and areas in farming may not be as important as today. Presently world wide there is excess of grains and agricultural products ( India Pak both have surplus grains , sugar, due to lack of demand milk is thrown at some times of year- it was news in times of India a year ago). New biotechnological development will change power patterns. The skilled man power of Karachi will be producing great wealth compared to agriculture centered areas. Karachi will act as great harbor exporting and importing 20 times than today. With almost doubled population Pakistan will be importing and exporting huge amounts.

I can see demise of Indus as Colorado river. All existing water will be used before it enters delta. (Colorado river in USA use to be mighty river it is damned and all water used when it enters Mexico its a dirty polluted Nallah at most). Punjab will be using most of water and we will be at mercy of Army. Kalabaugh will be built over protest of Sindh. Famous mangroves of Sindh will be long gone , fishiries gone (Palla will be history). The costal Sindh will be devasted as not having any flow of fresh water sea water will ingress and tubewell will be bringing salty mineral water and if used will destroy farming lands. ( Thatta is drawing brackish water in tube wells, some say even sea water has ingressed all along sindh cost by over ten miles in last 10 years- I have no knowledge but thats what a article in Jang said.) Fishires along sea cost will be destroyed due to lack of incoming water in delta in fish breeding places. Our forests , bird, animals (not hardly any left- mostly shot by lots of guns) will be gone. Machhar lake will be drained for survival or will become so poisoned by flow of phosphates it will going in soda ash solution. The dry arid sindh will go desert rapidly. It can lead to storms of sand like what now Caspian Sea, a dead sea. Probably Chasma Canal will going full while Indus will be dry and dead. Army’s base is Punjab and they can not displease farmers along canals they need to run for survival. Formerly along Indus green belts we use to see , they are gone today there is nothing.

Army still will be controlling tightly but will not dare to control population as they want to do popular things as in promised elections kings party like mined Muslim league can loose. Army can not do such things its peoples army.

This stage will come to tackle the water problem. This can lead to break up of pakistan2. (Original Pakistan1 was finished in 1971) or can lead to federation on lines suggested by former Chief Minister of Sindh Sadar Mumtaz Ali Bhutto. I predict Punjab and army will accept idea as they do not want to loose Sindh and State of Karachi at any cost. Army needs a country, what is army without country. It is possible if things get bad and Army is to unjust to Sindh or state of Karachi it may lead to peaceful resolution like Checzcoslavia. A reasonable divorce. It is my strong belief with information going in few seconds the army crack down as in Bengal by Generals or Bal..Stan by Bhutto is history. Sindh, state of karachi and Punjab will survive and prosper if army goes out of politics and allows people elected officials to exercise power then even Nation of pakistan will survive as federal republics (as suggested by our Sirdar Mumtaz Ali Bhutto) even hard economic conditions due to extreme large population can be lessened.

If Population is not arrested then honestly nothing will survive, it will survival of fittest ,restart of Mughal empire of new century and Our Afghan friends will be rulers as then only Taliban style rule can endure the misery. The extreme misery does not lead to revolutions but lead to despot fanatical state . Afghanistan or Sudan is example of what can happen . In Afghanitan ruling Pathans against nonpathans in Sudan ruling Muslims against southern Christians and animists. State instead of getting involved in welfare of people start in ‘making new citizens, starts paying attention to improving moral of people and punishing them till moral improves. It is my feeling that this will not happen in Pakistan.

In 2030 our supreme court judges will be far better. It is my strong understanding that misery of Pakistan is outcome of arrogance of Punjabi Pathan army and Supreme court. Our black robes (justices) are dishonorable people. Late justice Muneer and Ayub are both responsible( Justice Muneer is worse than our phony self titled field Marshall)for starting the Rule of army junta. This donkey supreme court judge justified the military rule and paved for breakup of Pakistan1 (1947 to 1971) and even take over for Ayub to Zia to our new supreme leader in ultimate national interest. ( all army rulers all over world capture power for ultimate national interest.). There seems to be light at end of tunnel and visible evolution is taking place. This time court limited army rule up to 3 years and asked to have elections and return of Khaki to barracks. This will happen in near future the Supreme Court will have some real ‘men’ not present Hizaras and and forbade the coup and later stage even give life sentences. Once this happens then Army rulers will not be able to face their lenders, they can choke them in no time. ( at this time it is strange our army rulers want people to be good citizen, pay taxes, be virtuous it does enter their thick heads that in most countries they will be hanged for treachery and for not following orders of elected prime minister- It is jungle law. What saddens me most even foreign educated people support and justify general.)

Three things will decide future of Sindh and Karachi state.

1. The population number. It follows as predicted it will be misery (does not matter prime minister or general rules, more misery will lead to anarchy and general will be in charge to take care of

..................................

sOMEBODY FORGOT TO TAKE HIS MEDICATION.VERBAL DIRRHOEA ,FLIGHT OF IDEAS,HYPERACTIVITY,MANIC PHASE INTELLECTUAL CONSTIPATION .

Sindh2 :2030

One good change may occur for both types of Sindhis. The stranded Pakistanis will be coming to state of Karachi and Sindh may start giving duel citizenship to Sindhis all around world including Hindu Sindhis from India. This will help Sindh to attract industry and capital , Punjabis may not like that but nearly 300 million Pakistanis will be welcoming anybody. We know the major players in international business who are Sindhi Hindus. Still there is lot affection and brotherhood and Sindhi Hindus want to prosper Sindh to as international Jews want Israel to survive and prosper. I have met many Hindu Sindhis who have lost members in 1940s and it is great credit to them they want Sindh to survive and prosper. For them it is emotional thing and they will raise international voice if operations start against Sindh by army.



State of Karachi and Sindh will be prosperous place. With coming of WTO regime the artificial protection barriers cannot be mounted. This international organization will do favor to Pakistan govt. by forcing them to follow free trade policies. I can see large multinationals from India putting Plants and Capital in State of Karachi and Sindh. The abandoned raillinks between Sindh and India will be operating and goods and services will be coming and going both ways. Punjabis will envy the resulting betterment of economy of Sindh and state of Karachi.. Cotton from Sindh will be Purchased by Indian buyers at good prices due to quality. Due to free trade Sindhi companies will have branches in Bombay. People may even go to see ‘Pakijha’ in big air conditioned theater and will not have to feel unpatriotic.

With time the agricultural income may not be dominant in economy and areas in farming may not be as important as today. Presently world wide there is excess of grains and agricultural products ( India Pak both have surplus grains , sugar, due to lack of demand milk is thrown at some times of year- it was news in times of India a year ago). New biotechnological development will change power patterns. The skilled man power of Karachi will be producing great wealth compared to agriculture centered areas. Karachi will act as great harbor exporting and importing 20 times than today. With almost doubled population Pakistan will be importing and exporting huge amounts.

I can see demise of Indus as Colorado river. All existing water will be used before it enters delta. (Colorado river in USA use to be mighty river it is damned and all water used when it enters Mexico its a dirty polluted Nallah at most). Punjab will be using most of water and we will be at mercy of Army. Kalabaugh will be built over protest of Sindh. Famous mangroves of Sindh will be long gone , fishiries gone (Palla will be history). The costal Sindh will be devasted as not having any flow of fresh water sea water will ingress and tubewell will be bringing salty mineral water and if used will destroy farming lands. ( Thatta is drawing brackish water in tube wells, some say even sea water has ingressed all along sindh cost by over ten miles in last 10 years- I have no knowledge but thats what a article in Jang said.) Fishires along sea cost will be destroyed due to lack of incoming water in delta in fish breeding places. Our forests , bird, animals (not hardly any left- mostly shot by lots of guns) will be gone. Machhar lake will be drained for survival or will become so poisoned by flow of phosphates it will going in soda ash solution. The dry arid sindh will go desert rapidly. It can lead to storms of sand like what now Caspian Sea, a dead sea. Probably Chasma Canal will going full while Indus will be dry and dead. Army’s base is Punjab and they can not displease farmers along canals they need to run for survival. Formerly along Indus green belts we use to see , they are gone today there is nothing.

Army still will be controlling tightly but will not dare to control population as they want to do popular things as in promised elections kings party like mined Muslim league can loose. Army can not do such things its peoples army.

This stage will come to tackle the water problem. This can lead to break up of pakistan2. (Original Pakistan1 was finished in 1971) or can lead to federation on lines suggested by former Chief Minister of Sindh Sadar Mumtaz Ali Bhutto. I predict Punjab and army will accept idea as they do not want to loose Sindh and State of Karachi at any cost. Army needs a country, what is army without country. It is possible if things get bad and Army is to unjust to Sindh or state of Karachi it may lead to peaceful resolution like Checzcoslavia. A reasonable divorce. It is my strong belief with information going in few seconds the army crack down as in Bengal by Generals or Bal..Stan by Bhutto is history. Sindh, state of karachi and Punjab will survive and prosper if army goes out of politics and allows people elected officials to exercise power then even Nation of pakistan will survive as federal republics (as suggested by our Sirdar Mumtaz Ali Bhutto) even hard economic conditions due to extreme large population can be lessened.

If Population is not arrested then honestly nothing will survive, it will survival of fittest ,restart of Mughal empire of new century and Our Afghan friends will be rulers as then only Taliban style rule can endure the misery. The extreme misery does not lead to revolutions but lead to despot fanatical state . Afghanistan or Sudan is example of what can happen . In Afghanitan ruling Pathans against nonpathans in Sudan ruling Muslims against southern Christians and animists. State instead of getting involved in welfare of people start in ‘making new citizens, starts paying attention to improving moral of people and punishing them till moral improves. It is my feeling that this will not happen in Pakistan.

In 2030 our supreme court judges will be far better. It is my strong understanding that misery of Pakistan is outcome of arrogance of Punjabi Pathan army and Supreme court. Our black robes (justices) are dishonorable people. Late justice Muneer and Ayub are both responsible( Justice Muneer is worse than our phony self titled field Marshall)for starting the Rule of army junta. This donkey supreme court judge justified the military rule and paved for breakup of Pakistan1 (1947 to 1971) and even take over for Ayub to Zia to our new supreme leader in ultimate national interest. ( all army rulers all over world capture power for ultimate national interest.). There seems to be light at end of tunnel and visible evolution is taking place. This time court limited army rule up to 3 years and asked to have elections and return of Khaki to barracks. This will happen in near future the Supreme Court will have some real ‘men’ not present Hizaras and and forbade the coup and later stage even give life sentences. Once this happens then Army rulers will not be able to face their lenders, they can choke them in no time. ( at this time it is strange our army rulers want people to be good citizen, pay taxes, be virtuous it does enter their thick heads that in most countries they will be hanged for treachery and for not following orders of elected prime minister- It is jungle law. What saddens me most even foreign educated people support and justify general.)



Three things will decide future of Sindh and Karachi state.

1. The population number. It follows as predicted it will be misery (does not matter prime minister or general rules, more misery will lead to anarchy and general will be in charge to take care of law and order problems)

2. Indus water will be not be sufficient with building of even more dams. Water will be a very scares commodity. I expect tanker in Karachi cost over 2000 Rs at present worth of rupees. Efficient and catching of every drop of water will lead to complete destruction of Sindh. Overall Sindh will be reduced to desert similar to Thar desert. Presently biggest producer of Gas and Coal is Sindh. Coal mines will start taking huge amount of coal for power production and this will produce great amount of pollution.( Coal power will be needed as we will have no money to pay in foreign currency for gas or oil) Coal mine operations always produce great byproducts full of Sulphur containing tailings. All water used in mining and surface water from tailings will produce so much acidic water to make sure Indus will be ecologically dead. ( Indus drains all final water)

3. As Punjab needs water for 170 million Punjabis and agricultural down stream Sindh will be at mercy of Punjabis. Ingress of Salt water along Sindh cost , total destruction mangroves , fishing in Indus will be cruel joke. Punjab and all states may decide not to use so much water in farming but use for industry and have wealth. They will start importing grains- international prices of grains may not even allow growing of many crops.

4. At this stage Sindh and State of Karachi will at struggle with punjab over sharing of water. At this stage above states will start thinking of diverting of Indus from Indian areas. Part of Indus water will be diverted through indian area and will enter in upper sindh. ( there will be international agreements to satisfy everybody). At same time great gas fields of Pars in southern Iran will be pumping gas through Pakistan to Indian coustomers. (presently proposed it passes through B.Stan to Punjab - loss to Sindh, state of Karachi and Sindh will put money money to have pipeline passing through Sindh. I never understand why it goes to Multan(proposed) through Sindh it will be lesser distance to India. Sindhis(natives and Mohajirs get up and see new game detrimental to them)

5. Lastly future of Sindh will be decided by Mohajirs and Sindhis. Punjabis and Army will use them to fight each other and weaken them. If there is no compromise Sindhi and Urdu speaking Sindhis will be fighting and powers of both will be reduced and it will be misery land. If both become sensible and unite they can protect interest against Punjabi and Army interests. If limited water resources used more for nonagricultural they we can have great trading , manufactuering and service industry along with Largest markets in world like India. It is possible trading with India will be we can benefit every way. Even Punjab can benefit from trading with India but for army’s objection. Indian economy can act as locomotive for Sindh and derive great business. I have heard lot about our nearness to Arabs and Iranians and central asians ( They do not give damn, for them we are dark and dirty people- Mukhkarbans) etc but to prosper we need to trade with biggest partner on border. When transport cost are incorporated and extremely small market size of middle east does not make great sense. State of Karachi and Sindh will have to depend on open markets for prosperity and open trade with world and near world of India as agricultural will not produce wealth and jobs to large extent.

6. I hope People of Sindh ( Sindhi speaking Urdu speaking) be prosperous and peaceful with calm and busy and involved in free markets of world and enjoying fruits of their labor.

Slavery ,Idolatory,Women persecutions,Polygamy,Divorce,Existed in worse form preISLAM!!

Dont confuse these as part of Islam,if anythin these are REHABILITATED in ISLAM

some quotes on slavery - perhaps the truth will become

self evident.

Manumissm is the granting of freedom by an owner to a specific slave.

Derived from the latin `manumiterre` which means `to let out of hand`. Islam

was quicker to embrace manumissm than Christianity. Islam, more than

Christianity, emphasised the importance of freeing concubines.

[A Historical Guide to World Slavery, Dascher & Engerman, 1998]

The following quotes are all from `World Slavery` by Rodriguez (1997):

Biblical:

``The evidence shows that Christians such as Paul and his followers had

attitudes about Chattel slavery that resembled those in the wider

Greeco-Roman world``

Roman Empire:

``Slaves were still their masters chattel. Almost completely deprived of

legal and public rights, and they were subjected to beatings, torture, and

sexual abuse``

Greek Empire:

``Slavery was prominent in the poleis (city states) of Athens, Delos and

Delphi. Evidence from Athens suggests that slaves composed 1/3 of the

population [400,000 in 4th century BC - citing the evidence of Athenaeus]

Islamic Empire:

``The evolving shariah sought the eventual elimination of the institution by

rejecting the often harsh practices of the oldersocieties that their forces

conquered``

``The 7th century Muslim arrival introduced significant changes in the

ancient institution of slavery, changes that had far reaching effects``

Throughout the period of Islam, there has been a tremendous focus on freeing

the slave. From redeeming oneself from a sin, by releasing a slave, or

simply to please Allah. The Prophet encouraged the fair treatment of slaves

by saying `feed them with whatyou eat, clothe them with what you wear,

treatthem as youwoudl wish to be treated` etc. However, to me the most

encouraging purpose to free the slave is as stated in the hadith of the

Prophet:

``Whoever frees a Muslim slave, Allah will save all the parts of his body

from the (Hell) Fire as he has freed the body-parts of the slave.``

[Sahih of Bukhari 3.693]

May Allah grant us wisdom to benefit from the freeing of slaves, and guide

us to do so as and when the opportunity presents itself to us, ameen.

fi amanallah, assalam alaikum,

A very well written article indeed Mrs Venkateswar. I enjoyed reading it very much. You sketched a brilliant picture of Mirpurkhas and your stay there.. i could almost feel myself in your shoes. Keep writing and welcome to chowk!

Klutz

Ms Venkateswar:

hope to read more of your memories in print ... i have been trying to prevail upon my parents to do a bit of the same ... but to no avail ...

enjoyed your writing ...

-p

mo 2000 # 13

Sir, you are very kind with your appreciation, and I am grateful, but I did not write my post for that. I was actually seeking your point of view on the situation in Sindh-present, past, and future-the need for a new and just social contract and what can be done.

I am also grateful for your advice on my writing- I write just because I feel like it-never thought about renumeration and I want to keep it as a hobby.

Welcome to Chowk Mrs. Venkateswar,

This was truly beautiful! I enjoyed the powerful images you created with the brilliant flow of your diction. Although, I must confess, I hardly read any piece on Chowk, which exceeds 4 paragraphs, this due to the obvious reason: they lose their attraction as they exceed a humane length. But yours was an exception.

Reminded me of my childhood memories; those were the days! Aah, to be carefree again!

Hope to read more of your work.

Welcome to Chowk Mrs. Venkateswar,

This was truly beautiful! I enjoyed the powerful images you created with the brilliant flow of your diction. Although, I must confess, I hardly read any piece on Chowk, which exceeds 4 paragraphs, this due to the obvious reason: they lose their attraction as they exceed a humane length. But yours was an exception.

Reminded me of my childhood memories; those were the days! Aah, to be carefree again!

Hope to read more of your work.

Response to comment#10 by urstruly

Dear Sir/Madam.. I read your letter and thanks for your comments. I read all stories generally ( let me be honest there is too much political comments , even wine at all meals can be repulsive). I read your `White Charade` and was impresswd ( can not say I enjoyed as reading made me numb and shudder.) As sindhi seeing this all downhill decent of capital of sindhis makes me cry. This does not happen to me usually. I will write about your story soon. I was hoping to write about it but my asthama problems(made worse by bad foul and pollulated and great humidity of summer- it has been naturally hot and humid in karachi even before birth of nation but unnatural explosive growth of population- lahore is natural city karachi is kind of artificial noncity). I promise you to write about it soon in about 2 weeks time.

You are real story teller. We had great crime-story teller from bombay and our neighbour a marathi teacher use to read tell us story about it- If I recall authors name was Baburao Arnalkar or like that.(indian reader of 40s and 50s can recall)

You have got language control, why you not try to publish crime stories (in english) with publication in India or abroad. You will have great number of readers and best of all you will get good financial rewards. I have heard from friends indian publishers give better compension.

Whatever you do ,you have talent cultivate to higher level and you have all ingradient to be successful professional writer. Go ahead , please do not get struck in mud of `historical political analysis`and become closed minded uncaring bigot.

I like you as you write story of PRESENT karachi it is refreshing. Do not develop attitude that you have to give `message` etc. Keep natural way you have do not over edit.

It was pleasure to find as a talented story writer on Chowk.

(Another story teller I remember on chowk was about murder of people and rushing of injured to hospital in Karachi based about same time. Fifty years ago even educated old women use to read crime stories. But that crime was not `real` and everybody knew it. What keeps you on toes when one reads like yours is now rotinue all over pakistan and in Karachi. It can happen to anybody, old people also alone and with children in west like me keep very low profile. In Karachi a robbers kill people for less than 100Rs. I have a friend younger old retired police officer he once told me doctor do you know when we catch young criminal(vicious kind), we beat them etc but still we care for them. They tell us we are kind to them , he said many tell police ` this is first time we are cared. Many tell never in their life any body was kind to them and said I love you.)

As usual old times creep up in my postings ask for forgivance of readers. I plan to write about your story and as Sindhi observer who had been in Karachi so long.

Again young man or woman keep on working on your `local` stories, you have many stories to tell and you talent makes it necessary to tell us the stories. With best wishes to you and all readers

re urstruly #4:

Why not makeup another id like mo2001 and carry on regardless?

later

-sac

P.S:I hope NewEntrant has not taken sick. Haven`t heard from him in a while. Do you still remember the password?