Group Captain Cecil Chaudhry, SJ

Re Asif Naqshbandi

{{ Ali Imam e man ast o ...}}

I recognize those words from a Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan qawwali and I would really appreciate it if you can let me know the meaning of those words. (Also, in the NFAK qawwali, the verse seems to continue beyond what you have written... ``something something sher-e-yazdaan-am``. It`ll be great if you can tell me the extended form and the meaning.)

Also, is this in Arabic or Persian?

Fuzair,

``...I`m definite that what we had in 1971 were the Chinese F-6`s, i.e., modified Mig 19s and NOT the Chinese version of the MiG-21 (the F-7)...``

Thanks for the info. You`re right. Yeager was probably refering to the Mig-19. I think Pakistan got the F-7s in the 80s.

However, my points stand. F-7s are no match for the BIS, especially at low altitudes.



``...the Israelis have a very poor impression of the MiG-21...``

Well, some statistics are in order I guess:

1. Mig-21 racked up a 7:1 victory against the Americans in 1967-68.

2. Operated by about 50 airforces in last 35 years.

3. Just the Mig-21s in the Russian airforce, outnumbered the fighter strength of all NATO air forces.

4. Totally 37 versions exist, including an amazing 14 production versions.

5. Holds record for the largest number of jet aircraft ever made.

``In the right hands, the Mig-21 could make mincemeat of the mighty F-4 Phantom. Although American fighter aircraft were more sophisticated and could fly further, none was a match for the Mig-21 in a close-quarter battle`` - Aircraft of the World, The Complete Guide.

regards,

Fuzair,

You are absolutely right. PAF in the 1971 flew Mig 19s not Mig 21s. Modified Mig 21s (smaller frame) the F 7Ps are only a recent inclusion, say 10 years ago at most.

F 7Ps are very capable aircrafts, capable of pulling off 7Gs.

-YLH

PLEASE PUT THIS UP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE CHOWK STAFF THANKYOU

Sorry, Sigalph, I am really very sorry, I dont know how I made this mistake. I didnt mean Tikka Khan, the Butcher of Dhaka, I meant Nur Khan...

Confusion was created because both of them later became PPP candidates for National Assembley.

ylh

``Another great man that the Pakistan Air Force had was Tikka Khan``

...... uh? ......

Re: Anarayan #204

I know comparatively little about the PAF and about the latest in fighter development but I`m definite that what we had in 1971 were the Chinese F-6`s, i.e., modified Mig 19s and NOT the Chinese version of the MiG-21 (the F-7). I`ve been told that the F-6s are pretty poor fighters compared to virtually anything else of their vintage and I don`t think that any PAF pilot will claim to prefer them to, say, a Mirage or a comparable US fighter.

Incidentally, the Israelis have a very poor impression of the MiG-21 (which versions exactly, I don`t know) although their former Air Chief is on record as saying that in the right hands (i.e., non-Arab pilots, I presume), it was a decent fighter, better than the MiG-23.

Regards.

Romair,

Correct me if I am wrong but is the Red Sabres the team that created the World Record loop (then) of 16 Aircraft formation?

-YLH

Sigalph,

Indeed, Asghar Khan`s contribution is phenomenal. Another great man that the Pakistan Air Force had was Tikka Khan.

As for the ethnic slant, when my father reminisces the days he used to fly for the Lahore Flying club he never forgets to mention some of his Bengali Instructors who were great pilots.

According to him Bengalis really knew how to fly them planes, and really knew how to play soccer. Surprise Surprise, two of my father`s favorite hobbies.

I went to PAF College Sargodha for a few years, and recently on the Alumni page I found out that the newest Air Chief of the Bangladesh Air Force is a Sargodhian.

Back before Zia took over or before Bhutto Nationalized, and when the house masters at PAF College Sargodha were still British, it was a remarkable institution, an institution both Bengalis and Pakistanis can be proud of.

Veeresh,

I am not entirely sure of the facts of Karachi Air

raid... I do know that Pakistan Air Force was criticized for not being able to get to Karachi in time.

However, that is not a debate central to the argument here. Pakistan Air Force`s skills are well known and well appreciated. Let us not be miserly in our praise.

Long Live Pakistan

Re: Romair #187

``A typical F-7 (Pakistani Mig-21) consists of a Chinese airframe, a Chinese engine, US sidewinder missiles, British head-up-display, US radios, US aiming radars, Pakistani cockpit layouts, etc. All this is maintained and put together and tested by Pakistanis. It is thus much more dangerous than the average Mig-21.``

Romair,

If you mean `average Mig-21` to be `the average russian Mig-21 you Indians have`, then I have something to tell you.

(1)

THE GREAT CHINESE AIRFRAME AND ENGINE

The Chinese got one of earlier Mig-21 designs from the Russians - the MIG-21F - and made thousands of copies and sold them at bargain prices. This is what your pakistani F-7 is.

Here`s what your favorite pal Yeager has to say about chinese-made planes:

``The Chinese Mig was one hundred percent chinese-built and was made for only 100 hours of flying before it had to be scrapped - a good disposable fighter good for 100 strikes. In fairness, it was an older airplane in their inventory, and I guess they were getting rid of them. They delivered spare parts, but it was a tough airplane to work on; the pakistanis kept it flying for abut 130 hours``.

An airframe/engine good for ONLY 100 HOURS? Sure, that it makes it `dangerous` - but for whom? We made our Indian Mig-21`s in India almost 30 years ago - and we`re still using them.

So much for your `Chinese airframe and engine`!

(2)

All the Indian Mig-21 versions (Mig-21F-13, Mig-21FL, Mig-21M, Mig-21BIS) are higher than the `F` version you had. You know what that means: Whatever `Pakistani cockpit layout` you had, the Indian Mig21s could outturn, outrun, outclimb the F-7s anytime.

(3)

Russian Mig21`s come armed with `Atoll` missiles - as compared to your american `Sidewinders`. The Atoll is supposed to be an exact copy of the sidewinder. But pilots say it is harder to use. So I`ll acquiese with you that having a Sidewinder is marginally better than having an Atoll.

But, please explain what you mean by `the average Mig-21`.

tahmed321

I have always maintained that Gandhi was a man of non violence... I just dont think he was a God! Nor do I think he was better than Jinnah. That is my opinion based on my study of History. Other people can have different opinions.

Dont you find it ironic though that a military man would write this on Gandhi`s Memorial?

-YLH

Shankarji,

Not only do you bring a smile on my face, it is entertaining to read your posts...

Devkant,

Nothing would make me feel happier if Indian Muslims really saw India as their nation. However, if the racist and bigoted comments that Bhartiya Musalman made are what you consider patriotism, then I am afraid, your patriotism is little better than Nazi Germany.

Veeresh

Kindly consider my post 167 on Gaddar board for a detailed understanding of my belief system. You like others have misunderstood my reply to Bhartiya Musalman, Devkant, and Akash, who are self delusional individuals.

-YLH

INFORMATION ON RASHEED AHMED - CHAIRMAN OF

PILCORP - LAHORE.

- Urgent information regarding the corrupt activities of Mr. Rasheed Ahmed serving as Chairman - Pakistan Industrial Leasing Corporation Limited is needed.

- He is known as a serious bribe taker and owns over 30 plots in defence and cantonment area.

- This information is required for moving his case before NAB. Anybody with relevent information is requested to post this information immediately on this site. The service to the country and his victims will be immense - this ugly SU7 needs to be shot down.

Re: Naqshbandi & Fuzair

Thank you! Regards.

upman, bharitya mussalmaan....

i salute the patriotism of u guys. india needs more guys like. and please don`t worry about ylh....he gets confused seeing non-hindus supporting india...its like asking him to sit in the corner of a round room!!!!

shankar #198

``The penis god says ``if pride was like an erection; ylh`s would be 50 feet long & hard like concrete`` ``

i don`t think i read anything more hilarious than this. keep up your sense of humour sir...its seriously amazing.

now where the hell is Rsaxena when u need him????

devkant.

News item from this morning`s Dawn: ``Pervez Musharraf pays homage to Mahatma Gandhi``. ylh, sorry to add another post on your already busy in-tray, and hope this one doesnt upset you too much. :-).

Also, I saw your response to my earlier post on getting hysterical: I was indeed referring to the double posting (where, as you say, it is the chowk editors messing up) and also to the lengthy cuts and pastes. Anyway, thanks for the explanation.

You do agree I hope that the only good air force (or army or navy) is the one that doesnt exist. The real enemy is the hostilties between countries that cause these to exist. And the philosophy of non-violence is the best way to get rid of those reasons.

Romair

post #187

Gotta hand it to you man; youre a frikking genious! :) And I`m NOT saying it sarcastically or facetiously.

Pakistan DESPARATELY needs guys like you & ylh. You guys make a great team. Ylh with his sunny optimism & pride about Pakistan & you with your sunny optimisim & belief in Pakistan`s strenghts. One thing I`ve noticed about majority of Pakistani intelligentia, they`re usually quite pessimisstic.

Tell you what! When ylh leaves Rutgers & Inshahallah ,one day becomes Pakistan`s second Jinnah (I know you agree Pakistan needs another Jinnah, desparately), sell your sucessful computer business & go back & serve the motherland. She NEEDS you. Ylh should make you part of his inner team.

Ylh,

May I humbly suggest that you make my friend Romair, COAS, if its possible. You know he`s too principled to plot a coup against you. He`ll whip the military into shape. Maybe its too late for that. Afterall, he realised ,after a while, that his mighty military was far from perfect, resigned in disgust & became a very successful computer tycoon in CA.

OK OK. At the very least, make him Minister of Information. He`s the BEST spindoctor I`ve come across. (BTW, thats a compliment!) Jeeze, he can convince an Eskimo that buying a freezer is the smartest thing he could ever do! He`s completely SOLD me why Mushy is the best thing that could happen to Pakistan, given the realistic alternatives she has. Too bad some of his countrymen dissmiss him as the ``spokesman for the military``. I just cant figure them out. But then, I have never personally endured a military dictatorship, so I`m not qualified to judge who`s right or wrong.

Pakistan NEEDS people who are principled, believe in her ideals & strenghts & optimistic enough to look at the bright side of tragedies. Romair`s your man! Lastly, hopefully, he could knock some maturity into your head--I certainly cant:)!

The penis god says ``if pride was like an erection; ylh`s would be 50 feet long & hard like concrete``

Romair,

For the sake of Pakistan! I hope, one day, Inshahallah, you will be successful in giving that kid a cold shower:)