Follow the People to Peace

Zafar #74 and urstruly (if the latter is still talking to me): ``the oppressed nation and the oppressor nation.”

People are first and foremost oppressed by those around them: the wife by the abusive husband, the child by the school bully, the servant by the abusive master, the peasant by the wadera, the subordinate by the boss (in economies where jobs are scarce), unaccompanied females by strangers on the street (at least in South Asia), the sleeping family by robbers who break into their house. More often than not, the oppressor and the oppressed speak the same language, are of the same religion.

This is oppression. Not the vague ``hindus oppress muslims`` or ``Panjabis oppress Sindhis`` or any other airy-fairy stuff that the super-intellectuals and would-be political leaders of South Asia love to play around with.

Shankar #76 ``Otherwise the bania will wriggle past the hangman`s noose``.

Our ace-wriggler Nawaz Sharif wriggled past the hangman`s noose, wriggled across the border and still wriggling flew over to Saudi Arabia. He was last seen wriggling his Nihari-fattened behind in Jeddah while happily consuming more and more Nihari as prepared by his personal cook who wriggled along with him over to Jeddah.

Now, find me a wriggler anywhere who could beat our guy.

There seems to be a lot of debate on who has dominated whom in Pakistan. The general theme seems to be that Mohajirs have completely taken over Sindh, and have thus sidelined the Sindhis. The second complain seems to be that Punjabis have dominated Muhajirs, Sindhis and everyone else.

I think there is more than a hint of truth in the above, due to the odd manner in which Pakistan is divided and has developed. So, how to rectify this situation.

1) First and foremost, Punjab has to be split up into two or three provinces. Until that happens, nothing will change. I believe Pakistan is now the only country in the world (after the demise of the USSR) where one province/state has a larger population than the rest of the provinces combined. This will always cause problems, even if the Punjabis themselves do not deliberately want to cause problems. Punjabis will always be viewed as the bullies, since they can single-handedly out-vote all the other provinces in the National Assembly. However once the newly divided baby-Punjabs come into existence, Punjabi provinces will proportionately have the same size as the rest of the provinces. The other provinces will not be able to complain, and one province will not be able to dominate Pakistan politically.

2) Balushistan needs to be divided into at least two parts. Baluchistan is the largest province in Pakistan in terms of size, but has less than 5% of the population, I believe. Pakistan needs to balance out its population over all the provinces, and this will not be possible as long as Baluchistan remains unpopulated. The hold of tribal lords needs to be broken in Baluchistan, since currently they control the largest land mass in Pakistan. Breaking up Baluchistan will assist in this.

3) The hold of the feudal in Sind needs to be broken. This needs to be done in every province, but specially so in Sind. The main reason for the backwardness of the rural Sindhi is not the urban Muhajir, or the upstream Punjabi. It is the Sindhi wadera. And it is not a coincidence that most of the voices one hears regarding the suppression of the Sindhis are from these waderas themselves. This is quite hypocritical, since these waderas suppress the poor Sindhis more than any Muhajir or Punjabi can dream of. After all, who excercises more control over the poor rurual Sindhi; is it the ethnic Muhajir or the rural Sindhi wadera? The last time I checked Benazir, Jatoi, Pagaros and the Makhdooms were living quite well, lording over poor rural Sindhis, yet they are always the first to point to the plight of the Sindhis.

I thus have a lot of regard for the poverty and backwardness of the rural Sindhi, but a great deal of dislike for the rural Sindhi wadera, who him/herself is actually the biggest cause of the backwardness of the rural Sindhis. The back of the Sindhi wadera needs to broken through land reforms. Once the poor rural Sindhis are freed from his/her clutches, only then will they start to progress. At that time affirmative actions programs for rural Sindhis will work. Until then, any such program will be hijacked by the friends and families of the Sindhi waderas.

4) Ditto for the feudal Baluchi sardars and the feudal Punjabi and Pathan landlords. There back needs to be broken through land reforms also for similar reasons.

%) The MQM`s dictatorship over urban Sind needs to be broken. The rural Sindhis blame the urban Muhajir for their problems, for mostly the wrong reasons. Similarly, the urban Muhajirs blame the Punjabis and the Army for their problems, for the wrong reasons. The facts just do not add up to justify these claims of the MQM.

The Muhajir community, by a gigantic margin, is the most successful, most educated, most wealthy, most business oriented, most powerful (in proportion to their size), most computer literate, and the most upwardly mobile ethnic community in Pakistan. There is absolutely no contest, in comparison to any other community. With respect to their size, they have by far the highest no. of Generals, beaurecrats, businessmen, etc. So I am not quite sure how the MQM can complain that the average Muhajir is being exploited by anyone else, when the average Muhajir is much much better off than any other Pakistani (please visit interior Sind, central Punjab, upper NWFP and any part of Baluchistan outside Quetta if you do not agree with me).

The credit for the success of the Muhajir community goes to the community itself. I am a great admirer of this community as a whole, and consider it the only truly educated (and sophisticated) group in Pakistan (on religious lines, the Parsi community, in my opinion, is the most educated and sophisticated group in Pakistan). If I had to chose purely on ethnic grouds on the best group to lead Pakistan, my vote would go to a Muhajir leadership (hence my support for the current lot of Generals running the country. I am sure the obvious differences between the Punjabi/Hindko led Martial law of Zia, the NWFP led Martial Law of Ayub, and the current Muhajir lot of Generals is quite obvious to everyone. Musharraf`s outlook to life, and his liberalism etc. has more than a little bit to do with his coming from a non-feudal Muhajir background).

At the same time, I greatly dislike the MQM and particularly Altaf Bhai. The MQM has hijacked urban Sind, and the most important city of Pakistan. It has incorrectly thrown up the idea that the Muhajirs are an exploited community (how is that possible when the Muhajir community is the wealthiest, and most educated community in Pakistan; wealthy and educated people tend to exploit others, not vice-versa). The MQM can thus bring Pakistan to a stand-still, whenever it wants just to satisfy the desires and egos of its leadership and pir sahib. Altaf Hussain has thus become the feudal lord of Karachi. Much like Benazir is the feudal lord of Larkana. I am more than a bit surprised that a great portion of the educated Muhajir community has bought into Altaf Bhai`s arguments, when the facts indicate otherwise (at least, after this coup, it has been exposed to everyone that Muhajirs aren`t doing quite as bad in the Army, as the MQM seemed to state. It was clear to me all along).

I think the above steps would do a great deal in balancing some of the provincial-ethnic based discrepencies in Pakistan.

Amina # 73

...there was this guy with me at college in Cal who was Sindhi- his surname was Jagasia, a nice soft-spoken guy...he was quite conscious of his sindhi-ness and actually when you write about mohenjadaro-harappa i`m reminded of him as that was his favorite line too, esp. whenever we`d rib him about about being `stateless` and a `refugee`....since i was curious about Sindh (bcos it has imp. mention in our national anthem but is nowhere on our map), he`d tell me about sindhis who`d done well in India- Ram Jethmalani, Sangeeta Bijalani (now Mrs azharuddin), the Hindujas in UK, Akbar the Great(!- i`m still not sure of any of these- he`s the only guy i`ve heard it from) etc...of Advani`s sindhi-ness i`d already known- and felt, as some columnist had mentioned, that he should be sent back to pakistan :)....it was through him that i came to know that the Bhuttos were Sindhi and that there was some sort of punjabi-sindhi power struggle in Pakistan, ZABs execution by Zia, etc...later on i did get the details from BB`s autobio........the irony of him describing sindh of course was that he`s never been there!

...my guess is that they do speak sindhi at home as some of my other friends frm bbay would tease him with some sindhi phrases, with a characteristic twang (i dont remb them).....as to whether they would ever consider return to sindh in changed circumstances, i am not sure- probably not...i think forced dispalcement and the subsequent long settlement process must have made them wary of any such future dispalcement......and my impression is that as a community, they have done extremely well and must have a per capita income far in excess of india`s average...

...as to your suggestions of an independent Sindh nation, i personally think that a further redrawing of national boundaries would be de-stabilizing to the entire region and the best bet for Sindh would be to bargain for a better deal within pakistan- within a democratic, federal structure...maybe sindhis could take the lead in developing an anti-military coup sentiment since you seem to have the least stakes in the military and greatest for a democracy...

Amina--Reply #73

Amina: I am sorry to hear about the plight of Sindhis in Pakistan. I hope things change for the better.

I cannot answer all your questions, but will try to give some answers. I am hoping these are accurate. May be someone else more knowledgeable about this community can help Amina find the information.

``I will like a Indian to tell us how many Sindhis are there in India.``

Don’t know the exact number. But, you can find them everywhere, especially in the Bombay-Poona area. I am rather familiar with this part of India. I am actually from the south and my neighbors were a huge Sindhi family of 45-50 people total—brothers and sisters and their families. They apparently came to our town penniless and they are now ultra-rich---result of hardwork—and very nice people. No hint of snobbishness or cruelty to others. In Poona and B’bay, you can classify them into “highly rich” class. Any Sindhi society location is an upper class location. They are all in business and very few are in salaried jobs.

``Are Sindhi hindus discriminated in India like Sindhis are sutly discriminated in in Pakistan?``

I have not seen much of that. Plus I don’t exactly know the extent of it in Pakistan for comparison.



``What is their average income and average income compared to Indian average?``

I am assuming that they fit into the upper 2-3% or even better. They are all very rich and they do not hoard money—they spend and enjoy.

``In what areas of economy Sindhis are in India?``

Mostly business—all kinds.

``Do sindhis marry other indians or they marry amoung themselves. ( I have come across sevaral Sindhis married to maratha state people).``

Because there are lots of them in Maharashtra in which B’bay and Poona are located. Have seen many mixed marriages, although that is not very common.

``Are they in movie Industry?``

Yes there are—some producers too.

``Do Sindhis like to live in India or they live because they have no choice?``

I have not seen anyone talk about going somewhere else. Only the very older ones mention very bitterly about their past and partition days, but generally they do not like to talk about it, as though they do not want to remember about it.

``Do indian Sindhis will really return back to Sindh if democratic, secular and modern Sindh state comes into existance?``

Don’t know---I doubt about it.

``Do Sindhi children speak Sindhi or slowly they have picked up local indian languages?``

Majority of them do—at least in my generation (I am 36). They also know the local language and Hindi.

``Do Sindhi Hindus really understand and believe most (there are few antiSindhihindus) Sindhi muslims feel remorse for what has happened to them?``

I have not found them talk much about it. Some of them talk about relatives left in Pakistan who have been forcibly converted.

``Did govt of India helped Sindhi refugees to resettle and gave lots of money?``

They did give them start money and shelter. However, they have made it big by their hard work. I have seen very little resentment among locals about them being rich now. They have surpassed the locals by a great margin. However, at least in my town, these people living in big mansions are still known as “Nirashrits”—meaning “shelterless” people—denoting refugees.

``Why hindus recite names of rivers Ganga followed by Sindhu in marriages? What is the exact translation of those Chants?``

I think someone else can explain this better---all I can say is that like Ganges, Sindhu is also a holy river and the word Hindu and Sindhu are many times used as synonyms (?).

``I hope some IndoSindhis will throw the light.``

I am not a Sindhi—but my relatives lived in a Sindhi colony---huge complex of 300+ families, all living in posh flats. There are several such colonies in B’bay and Poona.

Amina, I hope this information was useful as a starter. I also hope someone else will provide you more precise and detailed information.

Urstruly, 61

“I personally think that the creation of Bangladesh is a big affirmation of the Two Nations Theory. I believe that whenever a polity denies a system of Social Justice to its citizens `two nations` are automatically created – the oppressed nation and the oppressor nation.”

You said this well. Indian`s have a problem understanding this on the most part because they are too divided themselves.

Bina:

This article is sh *t and so are you. There is no greater hatred of Indians for Indians, it transgresses all lines of hate they may have for Pakistanis. Get off of cloud nine.

-__________________________________________-

Aurroj U. Pervez.

Veeresh says :

I do not think anybody can fault the Indian media from trying to take rational and objective views. Our Star and Zee TV are open for viewing in Pakistan, and how they take on everything and everybody, including the Indian sarkar is visible to all.

Yes and then again you have failed to give credit where its due.... PTV and Pakistani sites have repeatedly been blocked... as obvious by the following report by the Freedom House International :

India The government dominates news and information transmitted by radio and

television. Doordarshan television is the world’s largest terrestrial network, serving 80

percent of the nearly one billion population. All-India Radio operates nearly all radio

stations. Both systems favor government positions. Certain information, such as fighting

over Kashmir, is either not reported or is given biased coverage. An estimated 35

million people watch satellite TV. Video and audio cassettes (mostly pirated) are

popular. The cable television audience is growing steadily. There is a robust print press

in many languages though journalists are sometimes attacked when covering

controversial stories. In 1999, in separate incidents one journalist was stabbed to death,

another tortured and murdered, a third strangled, and a fourth abducted and murdered.

Two television journalists were assaulted by police, three others arrested, and another

targeted by grenade. The information minister blocked the website of a Pakistani

newspaper and banned the transmission of Pakistani television by Indian cable

operators.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/pfs2000/reports.html#indi

Is this the freedom of press and media that Veeresh speaks about... if Pakistan was to ban Zee TV India would make so much fuss about how Pakistan infringes on Media blah blah blah .... but Pakistan did NOT, India did!

ref: Amin Shah #73

I am not a Sindhi, but I happen to have a few friends who are. I will try and answer whatever questions of yours that I can.

1. Are Sindhi hindus discriminated in India?

I do not think so. They are very well represented in the top echelons of Indian businessmen. They have done very well for themselves in other fields too. My old Principal used to be Sindhi. For such a small community, they are very visible which attests to their success in India.

2. Do sindhis marry other indians or they marry amoung themselves.

My cousin is married to a Sindhi, and we are from Uttar Pradesh. So there is some intermarriage. But I remember my brother-in-law mentioning that other Sindhis were somewhat upset that he had married outside the community. Both his sisters are married to other Sindhis though.

3. Do Sindhi children speak Sindhi or slowly they have picked up local indian languages?

My Sindhi friends could understand Sindhi, but being brought up in Delhi, their first language was hindi. There used to be regular Sindhi nights though, where the community would get together and try and keep their language, music and culture alive.

-narain

Heck, and all along I thought that TNT was the Three Nation Theory--India, Pak and BDesh.

Amina Shah 73

I am a Rajasthani but I can answer some of your questions.

[I will like a Indian to tell us how many Sindhis are there in India.]

Dont know.

[Are Sindhi hindus discriminated in India like Sindhis are sutly discriminated in in Pakistan?]

Sindhi hindus are among of the most successful communities in India. There is no discrimination against them. Anybody who dared discriminate against them will get a joota from L K Advani.

[What is their average income and average income compared to Indian average?]

Dont know figures. They all seem loaded with dough more than the rest of Indians can only dream :-)

[In what areas of economy Sindhis are in India?]

Know many bombay, Maharastra sindhis. Also in Delhi. All over the north, I guess.

[Do sindhis marry other indians or they marry amoung themselves. ( I have come across sevaral Sindhis married to maratha state people).]

Like everybody else Sindhi parents want Sindhi children to marry other Sindhis. In practise this is slowly changing. Both Sindhi men and women now often marry outside their community. A Rajasthani classmate of mine married a rich Sindhi boy. Majority still marries within their community.

[Are they in movie Industry?]

Dont know.

[Do Sindhis like to live in India or they live because they have no choice?]

Only Sindhis can tell. Not heard any Sindhi complain.

[Do indian Sindhis will really return back to Sindh if democratic, secular and modern Sindh state comes into existance?]

Only sindhis can tell. Some may some may not. Most are very successful in India. For some leaving so much money may be difficult.

[Do Sindhi children speak Sindhi or slowly they have picked up local indian languages?]

All Sindhis I know (young generation) know Sindhi, Hindi, and English. In India being multiligual is very common.



[Do Sindhi Hindus really understand and believe most (there are few antiSindhihindus) Sindhi muslims feel remorse for what has happened to them?]

Only sindhis can tell. I have spoken to some Indian Sindhis about this. They never complained against Sindhi Muslims. They have a common sufi view which does not discriminate against men based on religion.

[Do they know we are proud of their success in many fields in India?]

Sindhis have very strong sense of community, are proud of their culture, history of brotherhood and tolerance.

[Did govt of India helped Sindhi refugees to resettle and gave lots of money?]

Dont know particular about Sindhis. All refugees got help. Dont know how much money.

[Why hindus recite names of rivers Ganga followed by Sindhu in marriages? What is the exact translation of those Chants?]

Sindhu is very important to Hindus. In Rigveda, hindus nominally most important book, the name of Sindu appears about three dozen times. The name of ganges appears only three times. There are ecstatic descriptions of the beauty and power of Sindhu.

The name of Sindu appears in many prayers. In all pujas (worship) orthodox hindus are expected to recite the name of Sindu along with other sacred rivers -

gangecha yamunechaiva godaavari saraswati

narmadua sindhu kaaveri jalehsmin sannidhim kuru

Oh Ganga, Yamuna, Godaavari, Saraswati,

Narmada, Sindhu and Kaaveri waters, please present yourselves in this holy place.

I hope some IndoSindhi will answer these and other questions again.

Hello, Anil Hirchandani and Sanjay Bulchandani. If you guys are reading then write to Amina.

Dear Amina

Sindhis in India are not discriminated against in any form. Infact Sindhis have become one of the most prosperous groups in India. Most of the Sindhis who came to India after partition were penniless but through their enterprise they have become one of the most successful and prosperous groups today. Inspite of their neglegible number, they wield considerable influence in Indian politics, business and bollywood. Sindhi is also one of the 15 national languages in India. Perhaps you might know that one such Sindhi who migrated from Pakistan is the Home Minister of India today. Sindhis, if anything are a model for minority community anywhere in the world.

Regarding the importance of the river Sindhu for Hindus, I remember a hymn that establishes the river Sindhu as one of the seven holy rivers that have powers of salvation among Hindus. The hymn goes

`` Gange cha yamune chaiv godawari saraswati

Narmade Sindhu Cauveri jale snidhin kuru``

Even the national anthem of India sings of the Sindh in following lines

`` Punjab Sindhu Gujrat Maratha

Dravid utkal banga``

I did some search for the Indian Sindhis and found the following sites. I post the links in order of their usefullness.

http://www.indosindhi.com/

http://sindh.net/Sindhis/

http://www.sindhiratan.com/Ethnology.htm

http://www.indosindhi.com

Re Amina

Sindhis are big time entrepreneurs. Most came to India penniless after the partition and they`ve worked their butts off--they pretty much run textile and electronic showrooms--you can find them in any corner of India, even in the deep south--as well as in the Carribbean, Hong Kong and Hawaii.

They`re probably one of the most affluent communties around. I grew up with a few Sindhi friends as did my wife. One thing when you live in the metros is that there are just so many ethnic groups that the only time you think of someone as Sindhi, Bengali or Marathi is when you go to their homes and eat their distinct food.

Been following the Interacts with interest and have a couple of questions of my own.

Are there any Muslim Sindhis in India? In significant numbers? What is their history - were they here before Partition or later?

Rshridhar,

{{You should know about RAW because word has it that you are a super ISI agent who has penetrated RAW using the powers granted by penile worshipping. :)}}

Youre right about that; bud.

Penis god says ``when the time comes to hang a hindu, you need another hindu to tell them what kind of rope to use. Otherwise the bania will wriggle past the hangman`s noose``.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Jiye Sindh: I look forward to a response to my questions.

You now write: ``Sindhis have to introspect and understand the factors that have reduced them into a poor shadow of their glorious past of Indus Valley civilization.``

Stop living in your glorious past. It is past. Look at the future. I would be the first one to applaud if in future Sindhis become the most well-educated and the most progressive people in the sub-continent.

And I am a Panjabi, and would like to understand exactly how I am your enemy. You could explain by answering the question I posed if you like. Or provide your reasons.