Follow the People to Peace

Dear nasah

``Tere vaade pur jiye hum...... ke khushee se mur na jate agar eetabaar hota``.

``

Wah Wah, Who said this.(I am a total novice when it comes to sher-o-shayari)

Romair #156

So far I am in complete concurrence...To Be Continued...

I cannot think of any place in the world, outside of moving to India, where a Pakistani has a closer opportunity to work with Indians than in the Silicon Valley IT industry. I have yet to work on an engineering team which consisted of less than 50% Indians (not an exageration). While I only meet my Pakistanis friends on the weekends, at least half of every working day is spent interacting with Indians. I have noticed the following about Indians in comparison to Pakistanis. I don`t know if it applies to all Indians, or just to the Indians I have met here:

1) Indians know significantly less about Pakistan than Pakistanis know about India:

Indians` knowledge of Pakistan and Pakistanis is very limited. Many of them want to know, but have no access to information. Because of this, they have a vacuum in this area, and they fill it up with things they read in the Indian media, and habits they seem amongst Indian Muslims. In my conversations with Indians, I (and other Pakistanis) can talk for hours about things Indian, yet most Indians stop at, ``Are you from Lahore or Karachi.``

Pakistanis` knowledge about India stems from three factors. The first is the Indian movies and TV telecasts that are available in Pakistan. There must be tens of thousands of Indian movie and music shops in Pakistan. These are probably the biggest source of entertainment in Pakistan for the past twenty years. This serves as a great source of info on India; even if the info presented is not completely based on reality.

Secondly, due to the large difference in numbers, expatriate Pakistanis meet a lot more Indians than vice-versa. In Silicon Valley, the ratio is about 9 to 1 in favor of Indians. Hence Pakistanis are exposed to nine times as much India, than vice-versa.

Thirdly, a higher percentage of Pakistanis trace their heritage to areas now part of present-day India, since a large numbeer of Pakistanis migrated from India than vice-versa. Due to this, a higher percnetage of Pakistanis (in comparison with the total Pakistani population) have relatives still in India, through whom they gain knowledge about India.

Due to the above, the Indian outlook into Pakistan is very limited. That is why many of the comments that Indians make about Pakistan apply more to the Indian Muslim community, and seem completely out of line with what is going on in Pakistan, and the habits of Pakistanis.

2) Indians know a lot more about Islam than Pakistanis know about Hinduism:

(Since nearly every Indian IT person in the USA seems to be a Hindu, by Indian here, I mean Indian Hindus). Pakistanis outside of Karachi, and small portions of rural Sind hardly ever come across a Hindu. I had met maybe 2 or 3, for brief moments, in my whole life in Pakistan. I would say, outside Sind, less than 10% of Pakistanis have ever even met a Hindu. Due to this, Pakistanis don`t know much about Hinduism (apart from the stuff seen in Indian movies).

Due to the large Muslim population in India, Indians know quite a bit about Islam. They probably meet Muslims on a daily basis. This is quite evident from talking to them. They seem quite knowledgeable and comfortable discussing Islam and its various customs.

Added to this is the fact that present-day India`s history is dominated by Muslim rulers. This also adds to the Indians knowledge of Islam.

3) Indians seem more content with life than Pakistanis:

Pakistanis and Indians are at the opposite end of the complain spectrum. If one were to read comments from Indians and Pakistanis regarding their respective countries on Chowk, one would come to the conclusion that Pakistan is about to fall into the Arabian Sea, and India is a first world country. However I doubt, in reality there is too much difference in the day to day lives of people in the two countries. The Indian govt. is wealthier than the Pakistani govt., and the individual Pakistani is wealthier than the individual Indian. Yet the Pakistanis are always complaining and Indians seem quite content.

I have noticed that here as well. A Pakistani and Indian living in similar apartments will talk about their living conditions in completely contrdictory manners. The Pakistani will point ou the negative aspects; the Indian will neither point out the negatives nor the positives.

Indians, in this regard, seem to be quite at peace with themselves and their surroundings. I have hardly ever heard any of them complain.

...........to be continued

Zahra: What a great line!

``aik hangamey peh mauqoof hey ghar kee ronuque``

What a shame! Get ready to hear responses:

1) People of Pakistan are smarter. They do not vote for religious parties.

2) People of Pakistan are stupid. They vote for feudal lords.

3) A murderer crosses the LoC and becomes freedom fighter. Since sectarian murderer are seldom arrested or tried, where do they hide? They hide in madrassahs, Afghanistan and Kashmir.

4) Islamic identity provides glue to keep Pakistan together but the synthetic glue is hazardous. What about the by-products of super-natural crazy glue?

Let us offer condolence to the grieving families and friends of Phoolan Devi and Shaukat Mirza. Please give generous donations to the plight of ``poor`` Thakurs in northern India and selfless, blood-thirsty soldiers of Islam in Pakistan. Let us be even-handed to the victims and vicious. Love thy enemies-with loaded kalashnikovs!!!!

Doctors and professional in Karachi, beware of occupational hazards.

Dear Zahra:

True ``aik hangame pur moqoof hai ghar ki ronaque``

but this is no hangama -- it`s sheer bloody chaos.

In technologically baron places like Muslim Pakistan and Muslim Kashmir -- where only a few such rare flowers ever bloom-- they are being prematurely picked up by the murderous jihadi`s Klashnikoves -- right under the nose of the Army -- which by the way -- is itself lawless..

It only depletes the already deprived community --certainly gives no “ronaque” to Pakistan or Kashmir.

Pakistan army will bring ``real`` democracy and turn Pakistan into a law-abiding paradise? That will be the day.

`` Tere vaade pur jiye hum...... ke khushee se mur na jate agar eetabaar hota``.

Veeresh: I know for a fact that the testimony of a woman is equal to that of a man in courts....

1) Pakistan legal system has never been modified to do anything else.

2) Even in Koran, women have half testimony only in matters of business contracts, and that too has never been enforced by Pakistan or Pakistani legal system.

Kindly stop this propaganda.

Women are considered equal in testimony by Pakistan`s legal system, despite appeals by fundamentalist Parties... even Mahesh G found this to be true...

It is sad that you persist in propagating this false view that women are not equal.

Veeresh

It does not suit a person of your stature to so blatantly lie in public. If there are any Muslims migrating from India to Pakistan or Pakistan to India today, are usually religious Muslims who do not consider national boundries when getting married.

You claimed that you had the UNCHR... but now you have failed to provide them... I am getting sick of your promises...

The finest corona, and the finest lunch in NYC is on me, but that has nothing to do with the fact that you are totally delusional about India in terms of its greatness, and your view of Pakistan is even more warped then before.. especially your claim that women dont have equal testimony.

-YLH

Bijli # 140

``It may be because Non Sindhis are MORE romantic than the `glassy eyed`sindh boys who cant appreciate there own treasure or too busy to do so !!``

Have you ever seen a hardcore, proud realist and rationalist being transformed into a hopeless romantic by the flip of a girl`s little finger?

I have; and therefore, I believe, there may still be hope for Sindhi men :)

hobbyty # 143

The tone of you post is unfortunate. The issue is not whether Sindhis should shape up or not, the issue is whether the Pakistni Politey, Constitution, Army, and fascist-myopic-dishonest politicians should shape up or not. We have no right to tell, Sindhis or any one else for that matter, to shape up unless we (that includes Sindhis as well) as whole shape up first. Unless we (as non Sindhis) put ourselves in their (Sindhis) shoes we cannot even imagine the severity of the situation.

Zafar A Talib # 142

Please keep in mind that separation of Sindh is not an issue between two countries. Sindh confirmed its participation into the Pakistani Federation through its elected body of legislative assembly prior to the partition. Also the Baluchistan and NWFP had refrendums prior to the partition.

- Whereas Kashmir is an issue between two countries.
- The issue started even before the countries of Ind and Pak were partitioned.
- The Ind. constitution came into being a decade after the partition. So Kashmir did not become a part of Indian federation until then and it still isn`t-Kashmir is governed by a special clause in Indian constitution.
- The origin of the dispute of Kashmir has its roots in the formula of partition.
- United Nations and almost every community of nations in the world considers Kashmir as a disputed issue between two countries.

These things have been discussed a zillionth of times on Chowk.

Karakoram:

It was a very disturbing news. It`s alarming to read such episodes, specially when one has many family friends and close friends hailing from that sect. I cannot imagine this happening in Pakistan :(.

I strongly feel that Musharraf needs to put his commandos in action. Just like they were in action when the coup took place. In order to nip the evil in the bud, an over-night commando action against *such destructive elements * needs to be conducted - only then there will be some law-and-order.

Somehow I cannot resist raising the following questions:

- Why is the army fast asleep when it should be in action?

- Why is the enthusiasm *in action * only to topple democratic governments?

- Why is that enthusiasm missing when their actions *can * / *will * have a very positive impact on the masses?

- Are they plain duffers and cannot see what`s happening?

Unless *a commando action * is not taken, we will keep on reading such stories. The provincial government[if still alive] must invest their attention in this area than anywhere else. Well, in order to do so, they will have to let go off the intoxicating substance they have been consuming for years. Being an escapist is not going to help here at all; facing the challenges will bring the change.

Interestingly, there is a lot of hoopla on *promotion of peace * in the air. The government owes *promotion of peace * to its own people first than approachng anyone anywhere else. The strong emphasis lies on - *owes. *

I am reminded of the final stage of an interview(3rd round) with the M.D of a multi-national firm; who flew from Pakistan to the US, to finalize my offer. This was in 1995, after my graduation. It was an excellent package from Pakistan`s standpoint; but the negative point was, that it was in Karachi - den of lawlessness. In response to my concern on law-and-order in KHI, the M.D very confidently narrated his recent kidnapping for ransom. The incident had taken place before his current trip to the US. Being an elderly gentleman, close to retirement - his calmness, while narrating the accident, was amazingly impressive. The kidnapping took place in the presence of his body-guards. His brother-in-law, who happened to be a senior police official(in those days)traced him and got him out of that mess. The very thought of learning about such practices - where people were kidnapped, murdered and etc - was mind-boggling.

Has these practices ever been part and parcel of our culture? In my heart and heart, I saluted the said gentleman`s nerves. After listening to him, I told myself, ``Zahra, forget it!`` My parents stood by my wise decision. Every time, I read or hear about *such * accidents, I am reminded of that all day discussion session with ``the strong-nerved gentleman.`` Sadly, things have gone worse.

- Should *a-third-world-developing-country * consider having its priorities in right order?

- Kashmir
Or
- Dinner with Vajpayee
Or
- Law and Order in the country

What`s the most important task?

Somehow, I have lost my train of thoughts and cannot figure out if I was trying to be cynical or was attempting to be sarcastic. I will avoid delving into further complexities and will end with my *heartfelt afsoas * on the current happenings!

Reminds me of the first misraa of a poignant shaer:

urstruly #135 For once, I would generally agree with what you say, and indeed you have shown more forbearance and patience in interacting with Jiye Sindh than I would have.

Now that we are on a roll, perhaps you could consider applying the same patience when interacting with Indian posters. Then we would really be getting somewhere on chowk.

Dear YLH . . . 133 # . . .

1) Feroze Gandhi to Nusli Wadia to Jinnah, read up on lineage and history young man . . . point I am making YLH which you seem to not to understand is that you asked me if any Indian Woman Prime Minister was Muslim and I said, yes, one was married to a Muslim, and his name was Feroz Gandhi, in the backdrop of why the Parsees left persia . . .

2) My figures from UNHCR on why Pakistanis and Indians want to leave India are already up. The figures on why Pakistanis want to come to India as refugees will be put up, but as I said, you haven`t really denied it as yet.

3) I stand by what I say on the women testimony in Pakistan issue. So does your Hudood.

4) Now you please answer all the unanswered questions to you . . . like, do you shave?

Ali1

MQM is most certainly a violent dictatorship and cult of personality

How can you dispute romair`s assertion that the Mohajir community are the leading lights of Pakistan - Do facts means nothing?

The real enemy of all Pakistanis are land holding feudal lords. It is these lords who have used the issue of Mohajirs as their cause celebre. It is the feudal land lords that have exerted their powers to deny the Pakistanis in bangladesh the right of return, it is these feudal lords who threaten violence if more Muslims are allowed to emigrate to pakistan from India.

It is these feudal lords who see their grip over Sind loosening because of the urban and industrial, modern and socially foward looking instinct of the Mohajir community.

MQM by creating a cult of personality around the Student leader / rabble rouser Altaf do immeasurable harm to the identity and years of sacrifice of us Mohajirs, who gave Pakistan it`s fighting spirit, it`s vision of itself within the ummah and the world.

Please do not allow yourself to be driven by passion and taken in by these vile anti Pakistan element who do use us as if pawns.

``Dhoti aur naswar kahan se aiee``? Why? have they stopped being our own blood? We are one! not little groups, but ONE!

Jiye Sindh

Have waderas run out of raping innocent Hindu village girls and then claiming that the tortured soul had converted to Islam and then discarding the person as if garbage?

What have the likes of you ever done for Pakistan - In which of it`s sacrifices did you participate?

More power! More money! More land! More! More! More! Want army contracts, then support the army! want more federal funds, then create conditions that are conducive for enterprise, and arrest criminals!

When will you learn to do for yourself? Want more money, honestly earn more money then! allow more industry, tax more, build more, cooperate more. Stop brutalizing the hari and treating them as if they were yor property; India days are gone, your caste system is over! Learn to live in the light of Pakistan, as upright and humble Muslims, who first ask what they can do for Pakistan! and not what has Pakistan done for me!

And fear the consequences that we will deliver on to those who do threaten the fruit of our fathers and sons`s sacrifices!

Shape up! Sober up! get a freaking job, pay your all your taxes, keep your head down and play by the rules.

Reply Urstruly #132

``Referendums for separation do not happen in Federations.``

If that point is true when talking about Sind and Pakistan it should also be applied when talking about Kashmir and India.