Why I am leaving

A clarification:



My dismay at Pakistan`s situation is not about Musharraf. No matter what the intellectuals say about the restoration of democracy, I`m glad that after all these years, we finally have an educated head of state rather than that joker nawaz sharif (who was corrupt too) and that talkative (and corrupt) benazir. But no matter how good Mr. Musharraf`s intentions may be, he certainly cannot achieve his noble objectives alone without the support of the influential state, political, religious and non-state forces.

Reply to ovfuel:

For somebody who ``meets the people who run the country`` and other ``highlevel stuff``, you sure haven`t enlightened me with any concrete evidence or some sign of genuine hope that things that Pakistan is worth the bother. (Except of course for the millions of poor people who live here).

``so called liberals like (us) should just shut the hell up and leave the country if (we) dont like it``?

wow, isn`t that a very civilized way of dealing with contradiction. hahahaha. I`m not going to lower myself to your level and hurl back equally derogatory remarks at you in return.

First of all, I never called myself a `liberal`. Not that I attach any negative connotations to the word. I pity those typical Pakistanis like yourselves who label everyone and anyone as such who are not your usual gullible citizens. So rest assured, I don`t take you seriously at all on that account.

Secondly, if you deal with the government tier in the country, you should have no doubt that what I wrote in my earlier reply to Ms. Maryam, was true.

Thirdly, I feel so sad that our country`s management is full of ignorant people like you. Germany prospered phenomenally after the second World War, because even though it was badly bruised and devasted, it had human capital. The USA gave much financial aid (grants) to western European countries under the Marshall Plan for four to five years between 1948 - 1952 (not sure of the exact dates now) so that these countries don`t join the communist block (like the eastern European countries). The theory being `a strong enemy is better than a foolish friend`. That`s how, in only a year or two, germany and it`s neighbours were enjoying an annual GNP growth of 25%. But it had a reasonably stable political system, virtually no corruption, good foreign policy and the willingness of its ordinary people behind its success. It wasn`t a simple state of `blind` nationalism. Germany felt guilty for its sins. It was true to its pledge of reform. And that is why it`s such a peace-loving and tolerant state today.

Adolf hitler was a murderer. how can you even think of elevating him on a pedestal? He killed 6 million jews.

I think instead of us `liberals`, power-hungry people like yourselves who adore killers like adolf hitler should be thrown out of this country.

Laslty, you`re the one who has no clue of what you`re taking about. Go enroll yourself in a university and get more education before you decide to clutter this space.

ok..mr kafir khan..i dont know what you were thinking when you replied..chances are u werent in the right state of mind...you dont know what you are talkin bout...go improve your vocab..and stay out of this ok?...you dont have a clue of what you are talking bout...u make no frikin sense..just shut up..benazir messed up the country..but musharrafs not doin that...that ayesha girl and u..dont have a clue of whats happening in the govt. ...i see yahoos like you people all the time commenting on things you dont know jack about..i know the govt...i meet the people who run the country...all that high level stuff ok...so called liberals like you should just shut the hell up and leave the country if you dont like it..pakistan is destined for greatness...and i know the conditions are not good rite now..but they will be ..ok? please..you are pakistanis ..dont hate your country..have SOME patriotism! you people are educated..pakistan needs people like us..germany became a superpower within 10 years under adolf hitler`s govt...malaysia`s per capita income right now is $4000..took 20 years for mahatir to transform Malaysia into a truly great nation..before that malaysia was nothing..it was worse than pakistan..if those countries can do it..why cant WE?? we are normal...we are smart..we have everything except FAITH IN OUR COUNTRY..why do we HAVE TO FEEL inferior..we are good enough..we are smart enough..and BY GOD..we will transform pakistan and people will look up to it!

PAKISTAN PAINDABAD

My Friend,

It seems like you have had a bleak and unfulfilling existence. It has been my experience that the meek always try and blame some one or something for their failure, apparently you think Pakistan is the bane of your existence. You would not have had the opportunity to sit at a computer and write that blasphemous letter if you had not been in Pakistan. What our youth have forgotten is to look and appreciate for all the things they have and NOT what they don’t have. Take an advise from an experienced fool, if you always compare your pocket with some one else, you will never be happy. Your Parents had enough of an opportunity to give you a decent enough life and put you through school. Granted Pakistan may not have the best health care system, the best higher education or even the best damn clubs, but we have a Pakistan. Take a look at the world around you, we have our Palestinian brothers crying and dying for a homeland. No matter what dump they get, they want a homeland. People in Kashmir are being tortured because they want a homeland. It is always easy to not appreciate what you already have. The standard of living of our common people is much better than when compared to India even tough India has a 1000 more times better resources and infrastructure than we do. You know why? It is Because there are a lot more people like you in India than there are people like me. Until and unless the educated few come back and fix what is wrong with Pakistan, Pakistan will crash and burn. Every one else would have won, and we, we will have lost the one thing that we called our own. I hope Zahid that this is not a pattern, a pattern of you running away from your problems.

Shaje

This is ragarding Post # 382 by Maryam Hussain Khan:

Dear Maryam,

I think your remarks were very immature and your horrible use of abusive language absolutely uncalled for. Even if you disagree with somebody, there`s a certain CIVILIZED way to express it. Your reply was in bad taste. Reflects a kind of `uneducated and cheap` behaviour which is so very typical of the Pakistanis you seem to want to defend.

At best, what I can say about your views is that you are young? In your teens?

Anyway, the point is that while Americans may be somewhat discriminatory toward coloured people, we are no better. In fact, I`d say we`re a 100 times worse. Do you have any idea how many minority community members are currently in jail sweating out their life sentences just because they are not Muslims? Our own society is so very intolerant. We can`t stand Ahmadis. We condemn them as non-Muslims. We have so much sectarian violence which claims hundreds of lives each year. Who are we to decide on anyone else`s faith? Have you ever actually seriously thought about these things? Are you even aware of the magnitude of the problem? If you were born a non-Muslim, perhaps you`d hate this country much more than I do. And the discrimination is not just on a societal level -it`s in the CONSTITUTION of Pakistan: 295 Section C. Read it. And you`ll have a better understanding of how criminal thinking is part of this `system`.

And what`s the fuss about being discriminated on the basis of `ethnicity`? Ethnicity is a self-imposed division between yourself and the `other`. The notion all started during the Balkan crisis when all those people who had been living together for so long suddenly decided they were varying `ethnic` groups. It`s how you differentiate yourself from `others`. Not how `they` mark you. Ethnicity is different from race. Race is used to distinguish you - based on your apparent colour. So what? Americans have housed so many immigrants from the world over. You don`t get killed or discriminated in the workplace because of your `racial` or `ethnic` background. We are much worse in that respect. Ham tau apne loagon ko nahi chhorrtay.

And the USA has freedom of expression, religion, and individualism to offer - all of which are very appealing to decent, sovereign and educated people - values which perhaps you could never even aspire to cherish.

In the future, please refrain from polluting this area with your dirty language. And if you can`t hold your peace, at least be a more aware citizen and attain a better understanding of what is being talked about and how valid your thoughts are, before typing outrageous messages.

Thanks.

This ragarding Post # 382 by Maryam Hussain Khan:

Dear Maryam,

I think your remarks were very immature and your horrible use of abusive language absolutely uncalled for. Even if you disagree with somebody, there`s a certain CIVILIZED way to express it. Your reply was in bad taste. Reflects a kind of `uneducated and cheap` behaviour which is so very typical of the Pakistanis you seem to want to defend.

At best, what I can say about your views is that you are young? In your teens?

Anyway, the point is that while Americans may be somewhat discriminatory toward coloured people, we are no better. In fact, I`d say we`re a 100 times worse. Do you have any idea how many minority community members are currently in jail sweating out their life sentences just because they are not Muslims? Our own society is so very intolerant. We can`t stand Ahmadis. We condemn them as non-Muslims. We have so much sectarian violence which claims hundreds of lives each year. Who are we to decide on anyone else`s faith? Have you ever actually seriously thought about these things? Are you even aware of the magnitude of the problem? If you were born a non-Muslim, perhaps you`d hate this country much more than I do. And the discrimination is not just on a societal level -it`s in the CONSTITUTION of Pakistan: 295 Section C. Read it. And you`ll have a better understanding of how criminal thinking is part of this `system`.

And what`s the fuss about being discriminated on the basis of `ethnicity`? Ethnicity is a self-imposed division between yourself and the `other`. The notion all started during the Balkan crisis when all those people who had been living together for so long suddenly decided they were varying `ethnic` groups. It`s how you differentiate yourself from `others`. Not how `they` mark you. Ethnicity is different from race. Race is used to distinguish you - based on your apparent colour. So what? Americans have housed so many immigrants from the world over. You don`t get killed or discriminated in the workplace because of your `racial` or `ethnic` background. We are much worse in that respect. Ham tau apne loagon ko nahi chhorrtay.

And the USA has freedom of expression, religion, and individualism to offer - all of which are very appealing to decent, sovereign and educated people - values which perhaps you could never even aspire to cherish.

In the future, please refrain from polluting this area with your dirty language. And if you can`t hold your peace, at least be a more aware citizen and attain a better understanding of what is being talked about and how valid your thoughts are, before typing outrageous messages.

Thanks.

Dear Zahid,

I am so glad somebody spoke out and so accurately at that! I agree completely.

Just a little note about what you said at the end:

I don`t think that our problem would be solved if the government gets in touch with the younger generation. Nobody in Pakistan cares. Not the people, not the government, not the elite, not the civil society. They don`t care what happens as long as they`re wages and incomes are upto their satisfaction. They don`t care about the pitiable lack of education, the lack of health care, the lack of tolerance, the absence of freedom of expression, the terrible blasphemy laws or the ease with which the accused in honour killings and other crimes against women get impunity. Pakistan is not a place for decent people to live in. Unless you have loads of money, loads of contacts and no conscience.

i think i agree with mr.afridi..but only to a certain extent. i dont think teh future is bleak because FINALLY we have a team who can actually do something for the country. i dont blame you for going abroad because if you are looking for a quality lifestyle for yourself and your family, iam pretty much sure that your salary wont be able to support all that. you can go off to the us/whereever and make a nice living there. but when u do have a reserve, make sure u invest in pakistan. because i have faith in teh government and at this time pakistan needs foreign investment. history says that a military government has had healthy relations with the us. and the economy has prospered during that period (ayub khan and gen. zia) the govt. panel right now consists of great individuals who can turn things around..but it will take time. now the drawbacks of a foreign country....i live in the us and i know the pakistani people here. from what i have seen, its not a good place to raise children. in pakistan the immoral things are considered bad and immoral and even if they happen, its very lowdown. not the same here...at one time or the other the kid realizes tht drinkin, smokin pot is a way of life here for teenagers and a part of growin up..and why not ..everyones doing it. ofcourse your child would like to be excepted among his/her peers.unless you dont care about ur kids moral values, u wouldnt have a problem. but if ur kid has recieved the primary training in karachi, they would stay away from all this and still find a way to get in good with the peers.

also, its a very individual society. the basic thought pattern is to get ahead urself, the drives there and screw others in the way if u have to . in short, its a totally materialistic society and many people are selfish. sure the economy is good, education is good and so are the health benefits. but a person like you would be working most of the time to earn money for ur family, tht u would hardly spend anytime with ur family.you lose family values, you child is most likely to lose moral values. i know alot of paki girls here and their parents think tht the girls are angels and everything, basing their judgement on the atmosphere inside the house. the child does go to school and if u yourself go to a highschool party or any gatheriing, i dont think karachi would be such bad place. but u are earnin good money, the quality of life is better. but family life is ...not as good.

Heres the title of my reply 2 u`re article : Why zahid afridi is a loser.

Zahid afridi is a loser because even though HE`S turned out UNBEARABLY obnoxious but somewhat intelligent (debateable) IN pakistan all he can do is piss and moan about that fact.

``V deserve better`` ka bacha...tu kiya koee shehzada hay joh DOOSRAY log tujhay pakistan theek kar ke dein?! who`re u expecting 2 fix pakistan? other selfish pricks like u`reself? or the jamadars and maasis?!

Pakistan risks losing U 4ever?! GOOD!! GOOD RIDDANCE!!! DAFA HO JAEYAY PLEASE!!

Go 2 u`re beloved ``amreeka``.I hope u`re successful there...and that once u`re successful some lil incident based on u`re ethnicity puts a dent in u`re overinflated self righteousness.

``I do not want my child to be discriminated against for her religious beliefs.`` v AAALLLLLLLLLLL know America is SUCH a religiously tolerant country hay naa?? gimme a friggin` (DAMN THIS TEXT CENSOR NOT LETTING ME SWEAR PROPERLY! SARA MAZZA KHARAB!) break and get u`re fat head outta the clouds will u?! stop wallowing in self righteousness and self pity 4 a minute and smell the guano.u can run away like a kutti with her tail in b/w her legs darling..but dont think u can escape who u r.bano doctor amreeka mein.i`d like 2 c u`re stupid face when u realize that the country u want 2 get u`re brown ass in2 so desperately doesnt really want u.It`s run by white ppl and they`ll always discriminate against u somehow..but u`ll gladly turn a blid eye 2wards that wontcha? a$$hole.

Y dont educated Pakistan`s CARE about Pakistan? Y r they ONLY willing 2 work EVERYWHERE BUT pakistan? Y cant they c that if all the effort they put in2 their lives and work ABROAD were put in2 PAKISTAN it 2 would prosper?!

u make me sick.

ladies and genetlemen..zahid afridi doesnt know how 2 b grateful.therefore he will ALWAYS LOOK and feel CONSTIPATED.stupid jackass.

if u consider u`reself talented u`re highly mistaken.all u r is a spoiled selfish brat.

U r whats wrong Pakistan and i`d PAY u 2 leave and 2 keep u out!!!!

have fun licking gori ass.

Maryam Hussain Khan

Doctor Saab, I can`t believe your article got 399 replies already. I agree with you. But it is not the fault of Pakistanis if countires resources are plundered by the army to keep them employed at higher salaries with batman,buggies and a ``mali`` to take care of your garden- all at army`s expense. Get out before Olive Green uniform becomes universal and you will be forced to join Army Medical Corps whether you like it or not. They may say they educated you free to become a doctor and spent close to 5 lakhs rupees and now you are turning your back on the nation. They expect you to join them in collective suffering. So do not run away to a far away land where you will have at least two dozen flavours of ice cream if you are just not content with only vanilla which Pakistan has to offer. I love your appetite for more including higher education. Yaar why do not you marry an Non Resident Pakistani in America which many have done. After all here is the sun and also the sand with nice vehicle to own besides a beautiful Punjabi gal from Lahore. And a very good news for you. It comes from The United Kingdom. DHHS and home office has just announced a dire shortage of doctors in England. 5000 Condultant vacancies and 2400 GPs jobe to be filled by 2004. If they need Indians then why not you. Gives you chance to be a ``Vadda Doctor`` as my Ammi would call it. If I were you, I will be willing to say Good Bye to Anarkali and Jhelum. Let the country run by Jehadis. PAKISTAN HERE I LEAVE.

Doctor Saab, I can`t believe your article got 399 replies already. I agree with you. But it is not the fault of Pakistanis if countires resources are plundered by the army to keep them employed at higher salaries with batman,buggies and a ``mali`` to take care of your garden- all at army`s expense. Get out before Olive Green uniform becomes universal and you will be forced to join Army Medical Corps whether you like it or not. They may say they educated you free to become a doctor and spent close to 5 lakhs rupees and now you are turning your back on the nation. They expect you to join them in collective suffering. So do not run away to a far away land where you will have at least two dozen flavours of ice cream if you are just not content with only vanilla which Pakistan has to offer. I love your appetite for more including higher education. Yaar why do not you marry an Non Resident Pakistani in America which many have done. After all here is the sun and also the sand with nice vehicle to own besides a beautiful Punjabi gal from Lahore. And a very good news for you. It comes from The United Kingdom. DHHS and home office has just announced a dire shortage of doctors in England. 5000 Condultant vacancies and 2400 GPs jobe to be filled by 2004. If they need Indians then why not you. Gives you chance to be a ``Vadda Doctor`` as my Ammi would call it. If I were you, I will be willing to say Good Bye to Anarkali and Jhelum. Let the country run by Jehadis. PAKISTAN HERE I LEAVE.

Doctor Saab, I can`t believe your article got 399 replies already. I agree with you. But it is not the fault of Pakistanis if countires resources are plundered by the army to keep them employed at higher salaries with batman,buggies and a ``mali`` to take care of your garden- all at army`s expense. Get out before Olive Green uniform becomes universal and you will be forced to join Army Medical Corps whether you like it or not. They may say they educated you free to become a doctor and spent close to 5 lakhs rupees and now you are turning your back on the nation. They expect you to join them in collective suffering. So do not run away to a far away land where you will have at least two dozen flavours of ice cream if you are just not content with only vanilla which Pakistan has to offer. I love your appetite for more including higher education. Yaar why do not you marry an Non Resident Pakistani in America which many have done. After all here is the sun and also the sand with nice vehicle to own besides a beautiful Punjabi gal from Lahore. And a very good news for you. It comes from The United Kingdom. DHHS and home office has just announced a dire shortage of doctors in England. 5000 Condultant vacancies and 2400 GPs jobe to be filled by 2004. If they need Indians then why not you. Gives you chance to be a ``Vadda Doctor`` as my Ammi would call it. If I were you, I will be willing to say Good Bye to Anarkali and Jhelum. Let the country run by Jehadis. PAKISTAN HERE I LEAVE.

Doctor Saab, I can`t believe your article got 399 replies already. I agree with you. But it is not the fault of Pakistanis if countires resources are plundered by the army to keep them employed at higher salaries with batman,buggies and a ``mali`` to take care of your garden- all at army`s expense. Get out before Olive Green uniform becomes universal and you will be forced to join Army Medical Corps whether you like it or not. They may say they educated you free to become a doctor and spent close to 5 lakhs rupees and now you are turning your back on the nation. They expect you to join them in collective suffering. So do not run away to a far away land where you will have at least two dozen flavours of ice cream if you are just not content with only vanilla which Pakistan has to offer. I love your appetite for more including higher education. Yaar why do not you marry an Non Resident Pakistani in America which many have done. After all here is the sun and also the sand with nice vehicle to own besides a beautiful Punjabi gal from Lahore. And a very good news for you. It comes from The United Kingdom. DHHS and home office has just announced a dire shortage of doctors in England. 5000 Condultant vacancies and 2400 GPs jobe to be filled by 2004. If they need Indians then why not you. Gives you chance to be a ``Vadda Doctor`` as my Ammi would call it. If I were you, I will be willing to say Good Bye to Anarkali and Jhelum. Let the country run by Jehadis. PAKISTAN HERE I LEAVE.

hamidm #352

`` if you don`t believe

Mckinsey & Co that there are a hundred and twenty million people

in india living in households with an income of more than thirty

thousand dollars a year..``

This is pure bunkum. Let`s say that`s 24 m households with a combined income of 30k x 24 m = 720 b usd! Indian GNP is what, 400 b usd? With statistics like this you`re only inflating the ego of the average indian who is already convinced that india is a powerhouse on its way to becoming a superpower. The reality is that india is a VERY poor country with a huge population that just keeps growing. The civic services if anything have been deteriorating everywhere, pollution has been increasing and the quality of life has been declining. What is true is that the standard (as opposed to quality) of living has improved somewhat. Do you, hamidm, get paid by the isi by any chance to spread false info?

Re:Reply #: 376

Stuka,

Watching blue movies was a time-pass for many college students growing up in Delhi. During those days, some of these movies went by name of, believe it or not, Gandhi. A conversation with a video guy would go something like this ``Bhai saab, Gandhi aap ke paas ho to dikhana`` and the vidoe owner would say `` Wo tho koi aur le gaya hai, Nehru (a milder version, like a double X instead of a triple X)hai, chahiye kya?``. Poor Gandhi must have turned in his graves many times.

Sridhar

Reply Stuka #376

Dharmik Fillum is actually isslang for paarnaaagraaaphy?

Supporting evidence:

My mother and myself were taking the bus from Bombay to Bangalore. As we reached the outskirts of Bombay an announcement was made that a “dewoshunul weedio” would be shown. (This was one of those infamous video buses that show you three Raj Kapoor films in a row and then treat you to Jaws at 6am only to be followed by three more Raj Kapoor films, haan haan I know, Raj Kapoor, yeh tho doosra zamana thha.) Video on…picture of a woman shaving her legs.

Is this a commercial? we wondered. No – razor moved higher and higher. So yes, here’s independent proof that Dharmik Picture is, indeed slang for biloo fillum.

How did it end, you wonder? OK, my mother stood up in her seat and assumed a desh ke neta position – you know the one, one hand pointing to the sky – and declaimed: “STOP THE MOVIE!!! There are women and children on this bus!” Havoc ensued, some poor fellow was thrown off the bus by the driver who kept saying “Nahin Madame, iss ne hi hame diya dharmik fillum kah ke, nahin tho hum thodi aise karthe Madame….” Etc. etc. My father was running a newspaper in Bangalore at that time, and printed an account of the story in it, including the bus line’s name. (Sorry, I can’t remember it now.) Two weeks later a couple of goons showed up asking who had “told you such lies about our company”. Since my mother was at the office on that day…

Uff, now I am getting homesick for India….is anybody else as mad as we are?