Ideas and Identities Melt Here

happy birthday to chowk.....i really like this where else can i interact with such a diverse crowd of people so many definite thoughts and interests ...........

well chowk zindabad

happy birthday to chowk.....i really like this where else can i interact with such a diverse crowd of people so many definite thoughts and interests ...........

well chowk zindabad

if the answer to the people of pakistan is to admir their hindu ancestry then why even be pakistani??????? dont we do a disservice and lie to ourselves? every time i read another south asianist post it sickens me

yasser

ive said it once to when we used to have our conservations in america the idea of pakistan is being eaten away slowly by south asianism ........just look at your interactions with saima ...............

saima

nice article......about the krishna thing does it really matter is the best thing you said and hey if you think its cute there s no problem with that personally id rather kiss a stone rather than worship an elephant god we all have our choices

religion is bs anyway

` You have to admit that our austere goat-killing meat-devouringreligion -- is rather funless to start with -- has now been turned into

a guilt-ridden pure hell of Puritanism by the Afghani/Pakistani Mullas --`

Well I will admit that if you admit the following:

1) The Afghan and Pakistani Mullahs find their origin in Deoband India.

2) What are now known as Pakistani Mullahs were opposed to the creation of Pakistan.

3) The Indian Mullahs are not behind anyone in their fanaticism and obscuranitism.

4) Puritanism is a lesser evil than sham spiritualism.

Nasah,

I did not proclaim anything that Saima said as blasphemous. Thanks for the reply, though you dont want to know my opinion of the revisionist BS Saeed Naqvi churns out.

-YLH

Dear Saima,

I really enjoyed your essay. Quite lovely and perceptive.

regards!

#: 48

``[nasah----Dear ylh:

What right do i have as an indian to degrade ram krishna & all of hinduism as an aethist.``]



dagdar saheb,

I know as a muslim if you did any less than revere it(janmasthami durga,Kali) & show appropriate respect you will be a communalist TNT,& even traitor.

But as a IRRELIGOUS person i have as much right to propogate my atheism just as vehemently as Tableegh Jamaat or Rss recruit there members.

If a muslim born in India renounceses islam & accepts aethism ,would not it be a better deal .free from discrimination ,able to act like hindu with no problem for he would be laughing his guts out while doing dandiya ,divali ,holi eid & can even get muslim votes for doing ramadan while cheating.

Under your proposal mr.Nasah ,any muslim who doesnt do what i suggested is the dumbest creature under the sun & surely doesnt desreve a human like life at the hands of RSS,bajrang dal,hindu mahasabha .If one will endure so much roza namaz,haj koran what for when just one but parasthee is clearly haram &gunah .Are you sure that the risk you ask him to take is justified.

i hate to see people be poor wretched & choosing to be SO ,under any pretext.doctor take care of diseased fellow citizen for they need you more than fat healthy americans

Dear ylh:

Saima says:

``I think that the Krishna story is sort of cute, and a bit gentler than chopping off some poor goats head.``

Now what is so blasphemous about that -- specially for you -- who is against blasphemy law?

This is what Saeed Naqvi says about Janamashtami and Krishna(as quoted by hobbyty)

``I cannot remember a more beautiful celebration of Janamashtami — Aamir Khan as Krishna, Javed Akhtar’s lyrics and A.R. Rahman’s music. Was this a contrived collection of three Muslims celebrating the Krishna legend in pursuit of some secular ideal? Nothing could be farther from the truth.

The Janamashtami sequence in Lagaan is part of a long tradition which includes Saiyid Ibrahim Raskhan’s unsurpassable poems on Krishna’s childhood or Nazir Akbarabadis’s: ‘‘aisa tha baansuri ke bajaiyya/ ka baal pan/ kya, kya likhoon main krishn/ kanhaiyya ka baal pan’’. (The beauty of his childhood was beyond words). Or Yaas Yagana Changezi: ‘‘Krishn ka hun pujari/ Ali ka banda hoon/ Yagana, shaan-e-khuda/ Dekh kar raha na gaya’’. (I am a pujari of Krishna and a devotee of Ali. Yagana, I could not help taking a bow whenever I saw the wonders of God).``(hobbyty)

Inresponse to Saima`s column you write:

``But if you are going to criticize me for not believing in them and believing that God is indescribable instead of the belief that he looks like Krishna in the name of sham idealism then go ahead.``

Are you implying that Krishna -- instead of the ``indescribable God`` -- is the ``God`` of Saeed Naqvi, Nazir Akberabadi, Ygaana Chingezi -- and Saima Shah?

Man, they are only commenting on the fun part of the celebrations -- not indulging in a theological discourse.

You have to admit that our austere goat-killing meat-devouring religion -- is rather funless to start with -- has now been turned into a guilt-ridden pure hell of Puritanism by the Afghani/Pakistani Mullas -- for even small pleasures like cable TV, videos, music -- what to talk of an occasional beer.

Saima says:

``At least at Chowk you have the choice to agree or disagree.`` -- Can’t you disagree in fewer words – has to be another harangue?

What is eating you man -- go get a beer -- and relax.

ylh # 46

Dear ylh,

A clarification -

I hope nobody gets after you for not believing that God looks like any of the statues you see! Hindus don`t either, and if some do, at least I have never met them.

Good to see you back. I thought you took a break for a few days after fighting the Great War with the Indians :)

Saima Shah,

For a very long time, I ve been trying to communicate this message but I havent found the adequate words for it... let me try ... eventhough I know its going to come out the wrong way, and I am going to be picked on for the rest of my life....

You see there are two types of idealism, realistic idealism, and sham fantasy idealism (in my humble opinion ofcourse)... let me elaborate:

A realistic Idealist: I want everyone to be tolerant of each other`s faiths and beliefs and let them be without persecution or any threat perceived, imaginary or real.

A Fantastic Idealist: I believe in Allah Ram Jesus Krishna Shiva Buddha Durga Lakshmi Sita Re Amon

Zeus etc etc they are all Gods.

Now I have been to a lot of Diwalis Holis etc and frankly I find the culture charming, and I respect the right of the people of the Hindu FAITH to believe in their religion and worship whatever whoever and whatever they want. But if you are going to criticize me for not believing in them and believing that God is indescribable instead of the belief that he looks like Krishna in the name of sham idealism then go ahead.

Second problem is that you always seem to belittle

Pakistan India to a matter of my God vs your God...

Now granted that perhaps the issue between India and Pakistan was created on religious lines but the use of the Word religion in this context is a demographic concept and not one of my God vs Your God. Indeed this is the nature of all Hindu vs Muslim problems in the Subcontinent.

Perhaps it is their faith and common customs which bring together the Muslims of India even today against imaginary and real injustices ....its not the Islamic concept of `tauheed` which makes Hindus hates Muslims, it is their reading of History in which they see Muslims as antagonists. in that respect as Ayesha Jalal said that the Two Nation Theory is alive in the All India context.... whereas we should have put an end to it in Pakistan. Everytime you belittle the Pakistan India debate to My God vs Your God debate you destroy the essence of the issue.

-YLH

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Reply #: 42

Gowardhan

Bijli 39

`[? You just eat what your parents taught you. Is that very different from what animals do?``]

JUST ASK THE FINNIKY AMERICAN KIDS?I WISH!

``[Justifying cruelty to animals talking of food chain is thinking like an animal. So may be there isnt much difference between some humans and animals``]

I RESPECT YOUR OPINION.TRY ACTING ON YOUR CONVICTION BY KILLING A HUMAN THINKING ``isn`t much difference between some humans & animals``

WOULD YOU ?

You want to learn every thing by committing mistakes?

a happy belated one to chowk. thanks for putting up with all of us and our 2 cents.

so here`s to you and to many more to come.

Bijli 39

I am also a nonvegetarian. I dont see what is there to be proud of in your dietary habbits. Did you work hard to be a nonvegetarian? Climbed mountains? Learnt Japanese? Parachuted from airplanes? You just eat what your parents taught you. Is that very different from what animals do?

Justifying cruelty to animals talking of food chain is thinking like an animal. So may be there isnt much difference between some humans and animals.