The Real Jehad

REALLY confused!
www.jang.com.pk
On with the struggle
M Gulzar Khan

``...The resultant 54 year long conflict between the two independent states of India and Pakistan, over the disputed IHK, has etiolated the resources of the two belligerents and has brought the region into international focus due to possible nuclear holocaust that may ensue if any one of the two looses the nerve. ..``

He wants India to continue fighting to avoid nuclear holocaust??


``...The continuous freedom struggle in Kashmir and ensuing international concerns forced India to invite the Pakistani Chief Executive to the Indian capital...``

But he also says the following. Notice his pious horror at `lack of pragmatism` on one side and warnings AGAINST pragmatism to the other side.

`` The negotiations may continue but there should be no doubt about one aspect. The Indians will never agree to grant any concession to Pakistan on Kashmir. The militancy has not yet given sufficient punishment to Indians to renege from its inflexible stand on Kashmir. The newly acquired wealth and western good will also inhibit India from adopting a pragmatic approach. The economic woes of Pakistan and concomitant problems that it is afflicted with also encourage India to persist with the atrocities in Kashmir. The freedom struggle is an ongoing process and these struggles have a maturity mechanism of their own. It requires tremendous patience, grit, commitment and resolve to persist and sustain under highly provocative, unnerving and abysmally adverse conditions. Why do I so surmise is because there are some people who have apparently lost nerve and are advocating conceding some turf and averring some flexibility and concessions in negotiations with India, in the approach towards resolution of Kashmir. Kashmir is a Muslim majority state and all rivers flowing into Pakistan flow through or originate in Kashmir. A huge lot of Kashmiri freedom fighter`s blood has also flowed down to Pakistan and fertilized its fields. It is therefore incumbent upon Pakistanis to honour the sanctity of that blood and persist with the freedom struggle till it reaches its logical end...``

The writer is a retired army officer ...`` (any surprise?)

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Syed Ahmed:370

It does not hurt to remind us that the `history` of Panjab & NWFP is hidden in their names.They are coined bureaucratic names.The word Panjab or Panjabi did not exist before the 1800s or thereabouts.

So the `theory` is out in the toilet.Ruled by sikhs it was the ``khalistan`` of its time.Before that it was just Lahore ruled by the GREAT Mughals.

Sindhi & Baluchis identity is what it should be:by themselves.

The lone one in the bhang-khaana is trying to convince everyone who cares to pay attention that Islam is not the foundation of Pakistan.The guy is some kind of nuts & deserves sympathy.He is hankering for the days when the Chhitar of the sikhs & the ----of the gora-saab worked on his front & back bumpers while he hummed ``dilla therr jaa yaaraan daa nazzarra lain dey``

WASSALAAM.

Re: Rozair

The 2001 Pakistan budget is about Pak Rs 751 Billion – which amounts to about 11.6 B US dollars….

This comes from about US $10.B in taxes and tariffs….. and an additional $1.6 B from foreign aid sources……

Total Federal Expenditures : 621 B + 100 B + 30 B = Rs 751 B


Ongoing expenditures Total : 621.7 Billion Rs = US$9.6B

Rs
Civil Govt 80.6 B Defense 132.0 B
Debt 329.0 B Grants 50.0B
Unallocatable 10.3 B


Federal Development Expenditures Total : 100 B

Federal Ministries 53.2 B
Federal Corporations 26.2 B
Special Projects 20.2 B

State Disbursements Total 30 B ( 100% ) US$ 0.461 B
Rs %Development Population %

Punjab 14.1B 47% 55.5%
Sindh 5.4B 18% 23%
NWFP 6.8 B 22.6% 14%
Baluch 3.7 B 12.3 5%
FATA - - 2.5%


Now these figures are highly misleading – for example the Govt announced a reduction in military expenditures from Rs 143B ( FY2000) to Rs 132B ( FY 2001)
Which seems like a reduction of 7% But this is not correct … since Rs 26B ( for military pensions) was now moved to Civil Govt ….. so if you add those numbers the military budget goes up to Rs 158 B which is an 11% increase over last year .. Talk about Shaukat Aziz’s smoke and mirrors and the junta keeping
Their military constituency happy……..

Now lets break down the numbers by provinces….- the state disbursements although are in proportion to the provincial population – they only account for Rs 30B in spending …. The additional Rs 100B in spending is spent on WAPDA/ irrigation projects and other federal programs which are primarily concentrated on
The upper delta of the Indus …. – Even if you assume 75% of those 100B are being spent in Punjab that amounts to ( incl state disbursements of 14.1B) almost RS 89B in expenditures which amounts to 70% of the total expenditures…….

Now add Defense whixch is and additional 132 B + 26 B in pensions and the army demographics is 80% Punjab, 15% NWFP and 5% everybody else……
SO if we add 80% of this which is 115B to the previous amount we get Rs 204 B which is being spent on Punjab ….- As for civil Govt – the majority of
that goes to internal security and Police apparatus which is overwhelmingly from the Punjab ….( let say 80% of ( 80.6 – 26B ) ) = 45 B ,… so now we are up
to Rs 260 B … let assume Punjab gets 55% of the additional RS 60B in grants etc etc…… you will see the figure balloon to Rs 282 B ,
Now Rs 282B out of ( 751B - 329 B ( debt servicing)) equals 67% expenditures on Punjab ….. without debt servicing – but the debt was accrued primarily due to military expenditures…… - and if you add that at an 80% ratio …. You get an additional Rs 263 B

So that amounts to Rs 545B spent on punjab out of 761B – that implies … about a 72% share of the expenditures… Similarly if you look at the figures..
you will see that Sindh receives about a 10 - 12 % share of the federal budget the rest going to NWFP and Baluchistan….. Now the problem arises when Karachi ( Sindh ) generates almost 70% of the tax revenues in Pakistan.. Since Agriculture is not taxed ( despite IMF demands and open declarations by the
the present Govt) you have a major provincial issue ( although Karachi is a megapolis comprising of all ethnicities including Punjabis) and the service sector
pays no tax…one imposes tariffs and taxes on the industrial sector …..
GDP wise 25.2% Agriculture, 26.6% industrial and 48.2% services…..

Even if you tweak the figures ….. the proportion of tax receipts to tax expenditures in Sindh is phenomenally low…. – If you look at the expenditures within Punjab you will see an extremely skewed picture as well…. Districts such as Lahore and Islamabad had a complete makeover whersas Bahawalpur and Multan are still in the 1920s…..- a proportional representation of the army constituency …….

Syed Ahmed #370: I never said in my previous response (#346) that Punjabis are monolithithic or their identities date back to some mythical or real past. I actually agree with you that Sikh religion and Ranjit Singh have played most significant role in Punjabi identity. At present, though, it is culture, specifically language based. It is impossible not to notice the trend against Punjabi language in Punjab since partition, backed by two-nation theory and one-of-everything-is-better-than-multiples ( a tribal, Islamic and obsolete concept) for creating unity among Pakistanis. One of the respondent to my last post wrongly linked the status of Punjabi language with feudalism because feudal do not want people to get education. Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP is equally feudal but they do not treat their language the way Punjabi has been treated in Punjab. In Sindh, primary education is available in Sindhi language since 1971-72. How has that weakened the federation that Punjabi language is percieved to do? The seeds of Bangla nationalism in Pakistan were first sowed by imposition of Urdu with Punjabi dominated bureaucracy and military coming in second. I strongly support the use of Punjabi language in Punjab for basic education and for increasing the litercy level. Why should I support or oppose a percieved notion of Punjabi language as creating softness towards India and thus diluting fiercely TNT-based identity. I have openly said repeatedly that Islam is a failure in Pakistan. It has solved nothing and created tremendous problems. How can I, then, support putting down Punjabi language on the basis of Islam or TNT? Tamil Nadu, West Bengal and many other states in India did not accept Hindi and it did not fracture Indian union, keeping in mind that India is/ was more diverse and more vulnerable to fracture. The Pakistani mentality of backs-against-the-wall that helped impose one language, one dress, one culture, one religion, one sect, one ear, one eye, one leg etc., was initiated and propagated by the vested interests (military-bureaucracy-bourgeoisie in Bilal Ahmad`s terms).

Punjabi, Saraiki and Hindko have more in common than Sindhi and Urdu or Hindko and Pushto or Brohi, Balochi and Pushtu in Punjab, Sindh, NWFP and Balochistan respectively. The case for breaking up provinces on ethnic/ linguistic basis is actually weakest in Punjab than other provinces. An illiterate Punjabi can communicate with Hindko and Saraiki to reasonable extent but an illiterate Pathan can not communicate Hindko speaking illiterate without using sign language.

Many places in Pakistan have different ethnic group living side by side. Even breaking down of current provinces will not make things any easy for competing groups. Take for example Saraiki province. There will be Balochis, Saraikis, Punjabis and Urdu-speaking. Electing a Saraiki dominated assmbly will be as difficult as it is Pashtun dominated assembly in NWFP. The Hindko speaking in NWFP do not support even changing the name of the province to Pakhtunistan or Pakhtunkhwa.

The real problem is power sharing and distribution. In Pakistan, center is too powerful and what is left to share in power terms is concentrated in provincial capitals. More povinces with power residing still in the center and provincial capitals is not a solution. The power must be devolved from the center. There must be a democratic mechanism to shift as much power to provinces as possible. The provinces should shift as much power as possible to divisions, the divisions to districts and districts to tehsils and down to local bodies. Real problem is top heavy nature of center and provincial capitals. The power of Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar and Quetta must be reduced tremendously from present level. If that happens then Islamabad can do all the BS about shriaat, Islam, Islamic Republic,, Hudood, ideology, TNT, blasphemy etc with little effect felt beyond Islamabad. This is the way to break down the manopoly of elite, feudal, bureaucracy and above all military in day-to-day affairs of the people.

Raising hell to secure `jannat`

Wilson John

What is happening between two Islamic sects in Pakistan has quite a few lessons for the people of Kashmir and for all those who hope for peace and stability in the region from President, aka General Pervez Musharraf.

One doesn`t have to go far in Pakistan to realise the bloodletting that exists between Sunnis and Shias. Karachi is the hotbed of sectarian terrorism that is ripping apart the society in Pakistan and Musharraf, for all his bluster, is a partisan observer, making grandiose announcements and quietly looking the other way when anti-Shia groups run amok through the streets of Karachi and elsewhere.





Take the case of Maulana Azam Tariq. He is the leader of Sipah Sahaba, a rabid anti-Shia group responsible for a spate of killings of doctors, lawyers and other professionals in Karachi and nearby areas. More than 450 people have died in sectarian violence in Karachi alone since Musharraf seized power in October 1999. Musharraf had, however, jailed Tariq after he threatened to overthrow the martial dictator and impose the rule of shariat on the country. Tariq has close links with Lashkar-e-Jhangvi that is led by a terrorist named Riaz Basra and Jaish-e-Muhammad led by Masood Azhar, the terrorist leader who was released by India in the Kandahar hijack case. It is important to be remember that the entire hijacking was planned and executed under the express orders of Musharraf. It was Musharraf who forced the Indian authorities to release Masood in exchange for the freedom of Indians trapped in the hijacked IC-814 Indian Airlines flight. The link between various sectarian groups is a person by the name of Maulana Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, the founder of Sipah Sahaba. Lashkar-e-Jhangvi is dedicated to the Maulana. Masood wanted to name his organisation Lashkar-e-Muhammad but backtracked once Pakistani intelligence agencies, which have a controlling lever on these organisations, asked him to dissociate himself from Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. In return, Maulana Masood got a training ground near Balakot for training his terrorist groups for Kashmir. This is one of General Musharraf`s devious links that need to be made exposed.

Another aspect of General Musharraf that needs to be exposed is propensity to go back on his promises soon after they are made. Take for instance his Independence Day speech. General Musharraf promised his people an end to sectarian violence. He announced an immediate ban on some of the sectarian terrorist organisations but left out Sipah and Jhangvi and released Tariq. General Musharraf is no strong man; it is only an image that he tries to portray in front of Pakistan TV or gullible television channels. He is at best a bully, capitulating under pressure when someone like Tariq comes along and challenges his authority. Tariq, according to media reports, is no less powerful than the General when it comes to running his writ. A French scholar, who stayed with Tariq at his house in Jhang, wrote how Maulana`s day began with directions to the city administration. Maulana`s writ ran with equal ease from the jail also. In fact, one prominent newspaper, The Friday Times, in its opinion pages described Tariq as ``the most powerful man from Karachi to Gilgit. Indeed, there are some cities where his writ runs stronger than that of the State``.

Another widely circulated newspaper, The News, had this say about Tariq and his sectarian organisations: ``These sectarian organisations, with enormous money in their pockets, spend it without any limits to free terrorists or to bail them out, and more importantly, to ingress into the administration. Recently, money was spent to free a terrorist from the custody of the CIA, who, three days later assassinated the chief of the Sunni Tehreek, Saleen Qadiri.`` There is another instance involving Maulana Masood that shows the clout Tariq enjoys. Maulana Masood Azhar`s entry was banned in Sindh following the provincial government`s decision to crackdown on terrorist and sectarian organisations. Maulana was stopped at the Karachi airport and asked to go back. Maulana requested the police authorities to let him make a phone call which they agreed to. On Maulana`s one phone call, the ban on him was lifted and he was allowed entry to Sindh where he met the province`s Home Secretary and travelled throughout the province unshackled, despite the restrictions on his movement.

There are reports about another disturbing aspect of the sectarian violence that has gripped a sizeable section of Pakistani society. The so-called ``freedom fighters`` of General Musharraf are no better than criminals. The local administration officials either remain terrorised by these elements or decide to side with them openly. A telling example is that of Karachi Commission Shaifqur Rehman. He was forced to pay Rs 200,000 as compensation to the relatives of the prime suspect of Saleem Qadiri`s murder, Arashad Polka. Polka had died during the shoot-out and was declared as a victim of terrorism.

These incidents are only a sample of General Musharraf`s Pakistan. It is nevertheless important, for Indians, especially Kashmiris, to know about them to make a distinction between General Musharraf the public persona and the real military dictator who is exploiting religious and sectarian feelings to keep a society divided so that he can return to power through the farce of a democratic elections, scheduled for next year. General Musharraf`s game plan is becoming more clear as he prepares for the general elections. He knows he is sitting on a economically ruined State. He knows he has lost Kashmir. There would be no Agra Summit ever; no Kargil could ever be repeated to prove a point. There are only two ways he can control the minds of Pakistani people. Divide them along sectarian lines which he is letting Tariq and Masood do with horrific efficiency. Sindh is on the boil over other issues. Baluchistan is burning on the issue of rights to their land and resources. Karachi is a city of hate between two sects. As long as there is divide, internal feud, killing and mayhem within the country, General Musharraf can avow himself as the strong man to set things right. He has already begun blaming the sectarian violence on political parties in his country and the Indian establishment. He has no love for Kashmir or Kashmiris as Hurriyat would want the naïve people of the Valley to believe. For him, Kashmir is another Suba, a province like Sindh where he has placed one of his crony Generals as President to plunder the wealth as he is doing in Baluchistan, thus keeping the locals deprived and impoverished, as seen in the Northern Areas and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

It is therefore important to understand the link that exists between those who are perpetrating hatred among Muslims in Karachi and those aiding and abetting terrorism in Kashmir. For instance, Maulana Azhar Masood`s Jaiah-e-Mohammad is both a sectarian outfit, propagating vitriolic anti-Shia messages, and a terrorist outfit in Kashmir. Maulana Tariq`s Sipah is busy doing ethnic cleansing in Karachi and other Shia-dominated areas in Pakistan, while letting Jaish train its men for Kashmir. The Hurriyat and its geriatric leadership are pawns in this larger game of destablisation being orchestrated by General Musharraf with the help of Maulanas who have everything on their mind except God and Religion.

Ali1,

How was the weekend chasing little boys in Madrassahs? Seems to be a common hobby in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Or were you chasing some cousin around as is common in Pakistan?

And when you`re done with little boys, go save this man...he will help you put your bhindidick to good use.

``Dr. Younis Shaikh, a teacher at a medical college in Islamabad and founder and president of Enlightenment, the Pakistani-based International Humanist and Ethical Union member organization, was sentenced to death for blasphemy by a court in Pakistan on August 18. He has one week to appeal this sentence. (See the New York Times International section Aug. 20, 2001).

Dr. Shaikh was arrested on October 4, 2000, by Islamabad police for allegedly saying that the Prophet Mohammed did not become Muslim until the age of 40 (which was when he received his first revelation) and that his parents were non-Muslims (as they died before Islam was proposed by the Prophet). According to the report in the NYT, ``The Movement for the Finality of the Prophet, well known for pursuing blasphemers, filed a criminal complaint and sent a mob to the college and the local police station, threatening to set them on fire.``

Hundreds of people have been convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan, among them moderate Muslims, Christians and members of other religious minorities. The law they are prosecuted under is extremely ill defined. Frequently, people don`t know beforehand that they are committing an offence. While we do not know if Dr. Shaikh will face execution in the short time allowed for his appeal or whether he will languish in jail, we do know that we must mobilize immediately to bring this travesty to the attention of the world community.

YOUR HELP is urgently needed to bring political pressure to bear on Pakistan to stop the death sentence from being carried out. Protests are being planned in London and Oslo.

PLEASE ACT NOW:

1. If you live in the U.S., please contact the U.S. State Department by calling Sec. Colin Powell at (202) 647-4000 or email him at secretary@state.gov.

2. Contact the President of the United States by calling (202) 456-1414 or email him at president@whitehouse.gov.

3. Contact your U.S. Senators and ask them to contact the State Department to bring pressure to bear.

4. Contact Ambassador Dr. Maleeha Lodhi at the Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in Washington, D.C. at (202) 939-6200 or email him at parepwashington@erols.com.

If you live outside the U.S., please contact the appropriate government agency to call this matter to their attention or see www.iheu.org for further information.``

Bapu # 369

Thanks for your extremely intelligent response. Now, please note a few points:-

No, everything printed is not credible, acceptable etc. etc.

But this statement about Manu was not given by Indian Government or Indians. This is given in a book published in pakistan and written by a Pakistani historian.

This Book `History of pakistan` Book 1 is written for students of class 6,7.

The author, J. Hussain is a graduate from University of Chicago in the Civilisationof India-Pakistan sub-continent.

Now, child if you still have doubt, please check up from Yasser (Ylh). He is an intelligent well-read person. And since, he has done schooling reading British A level and O level syllabes, he may be aware of this lady.

Looks like you have read only those history books which are quoted in K. K. Aziz`s `Murder of History`. Have you heard of this name?

Say Cheese

Syed Ahmed wrote:

At present Punjab gets roughly 65% of Pakistan’s resources …. Most of which is spent in the

Lahore, Jhang and Pindi belts .. with the rest of Punjabi particularly Bhawalpur and Multan and the Hindko districts

getting next to nothing…..- Also the majority of the Punjab state beaurcracy and the Army consists of the same urban districts now marginalizing

the lesser developed districts in Punjab ….….

--------

Sir,

Where did you get this `65%` figure from? According to the last NDFC `awards` Punjab I think received 55% of the distribution of funds. Plus how did you arrive at the theory that the lesser developed districts are marginalized? You may be correct, but is this just perception or something more. I too mostly rely on perception which is a poor way of analyzing events.

I agree with your assessment that further ethnic divisions should not be created. But really, despite all the doomsday scenarios of the break up of Pakistan, it seems as if it only in Sindh where there are ethnic problems that can be termed serious.

Ideally, districts should be given more autonomy as `envisaged` under the `devolution` plan. The middle-man like role of provinces should be eliminated. However, the government has been very insincere to what is promised from the word go.

Re; Stuka …../ Fuzair et al….

Stuka writes…..

“Interestingly, no one has brought up the issue of Gurdaspur here. Gurdaspur was given to India way before Hari Singh`s ascension to India. Why? Foresight or a well thought out conspiracy? By all rules, Gurdaspur should have gone to Pakistan as it was a Muslim majority district and contiguous to Pakistan. Yet, it was given to India, the reason being that it contained the only road head to Jammu Kashmir. Well, if Nehru and Patel were so sanguine about Kashmir going to Pakistan, why did Gurdaspur become so relevant.”
Gurdaspur was not the only district awarded to Pakistan…..….


The Radcliff commission had awarded the tehsils of Ferozpur and Zira to Pakistan – together they comprised over half a million people - Zira 65% Muslim and Ferozpur – 55% - they were contiguous with West Punjab lying in a salient east of the Sutlej ….. ( ferozpur had a huge arms depot that subsequently went to the Indian army). Ferozpur also contained the headworks on Sutlej which controlled the irragation system to the neigbouring state of Bikaner….. Mountbatten personally intervened through Sir Edward Jenkins ( governor of Punjab ) to eliminate the salient – hence awarding both districts to India

– Gurdaspur also met them same fate when it was awarded to India despite having over 70% muslim majority – ( a prime motivation seems to be the road access to the vale)…
All of this would have been hidden- had the original Radcliffe award papers were destroyed – but they were not and the papers fell into the hands of the Pakistan Govt – wherein Zafarulla Khan - the first foreign minister of Pakistan ( eventually hounded out by the ingrate Pakistanis for being an Ahmediyya) used them as evidence at the UN for gerrymandering…
There was also some controversy involved in the award of the Chittagong Hill tracts to East Pakistan – the said district was 85% Buddhist but was awarded to Pakistan …..






Fuzair writes…
“Hari Singh did not have the moral character to acede to Pakistan as did, for example, the Nawab of Bhopal to India: on the grounds that the ruler should honor the wishes of his people. Bhopal then migrated to Pakistan, his personal wish. Bhopali independence was even less feasible than Kashmiri but he didn`t even try to strike a deal for himself with the Indian government.”


The Nawab of Bhopal did not migrate to Pakistan.. His eldest daughter and political heir Princess Abida Sultana did ( over a personal domestic dispute.)…. Her son Shehryar Khan later became the Foreign Secretary of Pakistan in the late 80’s ( early 90’s) ….. The Nawab was offered the Governal Generalship of Pakistan after the death of Jinnah ( he was a close personal friend of Jinnahas well as the President o the chamber of Princes in British India.) which he declined for personal and political reasons…in 1960 upon his death he was succeeded by his 2nd daughter the wife of the Nawab of Pautaudi … Her son Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi ( of Cricketing fame) is the final claimant to that title…..
The Nawab of Junagadh upon advice of his Dewan – Sri Shahnawaz Bhutto acceded Junagadh to Pakistan and then promptly fled when Patel directed the invasion of Junagadh in Sept 48….- His son Dilwar Khan was the Governor of Sindh during Bhutto’s tenure in the 70`s……

Gowardhan, seems like the reg veda is stuck (where its stuck) with superglue. Sigh. We`ll let you relish your high caste superiority.

But why did all the hindoo high flyers including the spinster chasing bhindidick spent their labor day weekend glued to chowk.com eating their cow-urine laced masala dosa? Most cab drivers would have done better... I hear they pick up the best high caste chicks from Jackson Heights?

Re: SameerJB

We need to first define Pakistani loyalties is Is it Islam, Pakistan and ethnic identity --- or are ethnic and parochial biases the
Overriding concern… – Are there any lessons to be learned from the debacle in Bangladesh.. ???

The breaking down of provinces along ethnic lines has never made any sense – except to give rise to ethnic rivalries….-
Breaking the provinces down to smaller units might create more cohesive federation – you might have a Punjabi majority district in Sindh and
a Sindhi majority district in Balochistan or even a Urdu speaking majority district in pothawar….- Regardless it will break down age old ethnic
power structures and play havoc with the feudal system……And at the district level one can have whatever curriculum one might desire without
a threat to the entire federation. Also Punjabi, Saraiki and Hindko will get more recognition at a more localized administrative machinery – or in
the case of Baluchistan – the pukthun, Brauhi and Baluch and Makrani groups will have greater latitude in their future,
in Sindh – the Marwaris, Kutchi and Sindhi subgroups will be on equal footing ….in Pakthoonwa -
you will have the farsi, pashtun, Gilgiti sub groups…..

Also your assertion that Punjab is a monolithic entity is entirely incorrect. Muslim Punjabi ethnic nationalism is a relatively new
Phenomenon – cultivated by the British to maintain their hegemony in order to maintain the status quo between the central provinces,
And to provide an ample supply of loyal cannon fodder …( NCO’s) ….
Throughout Mughal India –although Lahore enjoyed a prominent place in the Delhi – Agra – Lahore nexus …- the ehnic Punjabi factor
was non existent - Punjabi nationalism only came into prominence by the evolution of the Sikh religion and rise of Ranjit Singh ……
who after decapitating the Mughal hierarchy replaced it with a more compliant feudal aristocracy …. – hence a reluctance on part of the
the establishment to promote a Punjabi culture in Pakistan

I think the breaking down of Punjab into smaller provinces ( or for that matter all of the other provinces) is a good idea from an
Administrative and a societal view point…. It breaks the age old biradari system that has been the scourge of many ills since 47….
It make the people more mobile by creating more efficiently administered local units…. It breaks the back of the feudal culture
That dominates the rural landscape by decentralizing power ….
And finally it breaks the age of Punjabi “bogey” that has dominated the political landscape since the 50’s ..
it also effectively disintegrates the “ethnic” question since Sindh or Punjab or Baluchistan are divided into smaller units… the ethnic
identity recedes to the background and a more cohesive Pakistani culture develops….. More importantly there is an
equi distribution of resources… At present Punjab gets roughly 65% of Pakistan’s resources …. Most of which is spent in the
Lahore, Jhang and Pindi belts .. with the rest of Punjabi particularly Bhawalpur and Multan and the Hindko districts
getting next to nothing…..- Also the majority of the Punjab state beaurcracy and the Army consists of the same urban districts now marginalizing
the lesser developed districts in Punjab ….….

The question is an important one … do we decapitate the remnants of the two nation theory on ethnocentric regionalism ( which BTW does not require Pakistan) and become “Punjabi-stan” or Sindhu-desh or forego our regional differences into a melting pot called Pakistan… That decision
lies with people such as yourself ……

Bapu alias Shah # 364 etc.

What a great talent!

Great command on english language!

Superb erudition!

Now read the following:-

Manu was Hazarat Nu of the Quran and Prophet Noah of Bible.

Source:- Hussain, J. ``An Illustrated History of Pakistan Book 1`` Oxford University Press Karachi pp-32

I am sure I don`t need to say anything more. Since you refered to my old age, should I now ask you to wipe your nose? (Only asking not saying.)

A request

In your next post, please let us know how many laws in India are framed based on Manu Smriti?

How many times judiciary has given reference to Manu Smriti while giving judgements?

How many times executive has quoted from Manu`s treatise to justify framing of laws?

and any additional information.

Thanks in anticipation.

Have a great day.

From The Nation daily:

Formal burial

Husain Naqi

Search for surrogates to serve with the military dominated establishment has resumed. The multiple capped head of government after announcing his roadmap has started meeting feudal and tribal scions belonging to vote-bank holding parties. The self-appointed President will represent the country at the UN General Assembly later in the month. In post Cold-War years the moot will find fewer generals representing their nations of whom, he, from a nuclear state, will be the most distinguished. The General will meet the leaders of the world’s most armed and most populous democracies. With the latter, he will discuss the core issue of Kashmir while the former may raise with him their ‘core’ issue of the Taliban, their honoured guest and his exploits against the US and her global interests.

On the home front General Musharraf inaugurated some half-a-dozen non-controversial development projects followed by the Indus River System Authority disclosing that except for Sindh, consensus was achieved amongst provincial bureaucrats on the Kalabagh Dam. The announcement was followed by strong reaction from nationalists in Sindh and NWFP. Another significant development was the ‘jihadi’ organisations finally succeeding in humbling the Interior Minister over fundraising. And last but not least four citizens were slain in Karachi on a single day in apparent terrorist attacks.

General Musharraf’s meetings with pliant and not-so-pliant leaders clearly indicates the military top brass has partially conceded that direct political control failed to bear fruit. The economy they desired to kickstart and discipline and national cohesion, did not occur. Instead, there was discontent as there was unemployment and price-rise, as well as divisive tendencies and intolerance were inciting terrorist violence. The regime was also worried that despite condemnation through intelligence outfits and controlled media, the former surrogates turned into formidable votebank-holders. Even direct interference by Services’ personnel could not ensure ‘positive’ results, especially at the top local bodies tier. This resulted in political parties’ rank and file regaining self-confidence. That self-confidence seems lacking among the nominated leaderships, of whom some seem to be getting nervous and wishing to cut a quick deal. If that happens, politics will be the loser. That may, of course, provide a safe exit to a few but will severely damage the political interests of the co-opted party, the PPP.

So far the PPP had played its cards well. Its recapture of its political constituency in the Punjab was possible due to PML(N) leaders’ deal with the regime for obtaining a safe-exit in exile. That also helped the rise of Sharif critics within the PML to emerge into an organised force in the shape of PML (LM/QA). With the PPP becoming the main competing party in the Punjab, with a base in Sindh and strong presence in NWFP, its political interests will be better served if it waits to enter the electoral fray next year, instead of entering a suspect deal that will only strengthen the regime politically. Bhutto who during the past couple of years has developed her writing skills has almost a year to convince her readers about the critical ailments caused by military interference, both direct and indirect, in politics.

Politically, it is not crucial that by attaining majority in the next elections Bhutto or someone else becomes PM. After all, she was PM twice, as was Sharif. Now it is no more secret that both could exercise only the powers the military allowed. They failed to wrest the power PMs in parliamentary democracies have. The military booted them out, not once but twice. Instead of giving battle to achieve the people’s rights, both indulged in authoritarianism, suppression of democratic institutions and rights of the opposition. Worse still they and/or their hangers-on indulged in plunder, distancing themselves from their constituencies and the people at large. The military regime came with the promise of across-the-board accountability, revival of economy, redressing injustices perceived by less populated provinces, better tidings for the common man. But in the times that followed, the people found that accountability was selective. Those opting to come under regime’s umbrella were spared. The economic situation worsened. There were large scale downsizings while personnel from military were being inducted everywhere. Prices of essential items soared and hardly any utility services showed improvement. There was flight of capital and lack of investment. Despite talk of retiring debts through sale of family silver there were few takers.

Now there is an awakening that howsoever corrupt they be, all ills are not of the making of political leaders. The military is neither regarded as better manager nor a sacred cow. There is across the board consensus among the intelligentsia that the armed forces’ expenditure needs to be rationalised and should function strictly within its domain of duties. Its interference in politics is resented and its watchdog role is despised. Its only role should be confined to protecting country’s borders, is the common response to the junta’s demand for a constitutionally recognised role of the national security council. While recognising that the Constitution in its present shape and form was the mutilated version of the 1973’s original document, any further amendment/s by procedures other than the one provided under the Constitution would be unacceptable. Seasoned politicians have warned that the move will open a pandora’s box as already demands have been made for a fresh constituent assembly to draft a constitution based on the 1940 Pakistan Resolution.

Meanwhile the gulf between the people and major political parties and the government is increasing. The latter desperately needs bridging this gulf before it turns into open confrontation. It is looking for some quick fix that strengthens its position and causes damage to the party that so far withstood the onslaught and rebuffed the factionalism. Apparently there is no reason the present weakening regime’s efforts succeed. In fact the worsening situation demands political parties subscribing to federal parliamentary system to come around and demand a formal burial to the post Zia ‘troika’ misrule. The roadmap cannot offer any space to military interference. Instead, the political parties should commit to participatory democracy at all levels from top to bottom and demand the military to account for all the investment incurred on its upkeep while the people remained impoverished, illiterate, ill-fed and ill-clothed. Hundreds of thousands (almost 1/3rd of total population) remained without minimum calorie intake, a state of health far worse than at the time of independence in the region that now constitutes Pakistan. Democratic political forces should also demand complete ban on induction of military personnel to jobs in civilian and corporate undertakings and placing before public scrutiny all budgetary demands for defence, as is the practice in all civilised democratic countries.

E-mail queries and comments to: naqi@nation.com.pk

Sep-3-01 15:51:44 EST Reply #: 362

Humsab------ali 1 # 353

Mr. The Wise One

Well, do you know who Manu of Manu Smriti is?

He is one of those great men who came on this earth before Muhammad and his name is in Holy Quran.``]

You may have been born 20years before me ,then why are you dummber & more idiotic than me.Mind rots with age like yours .Dont even take name of mohommed & koran from your Kafir mouth ,for this habit may cost you your life one day.Koran is not in your sanskrit & hindi & hindfus lack the genes to grasp arabic .Thats why u ppl.hate arabs & arabic so much





LOW-CASTES SHOULD HAVE GARBAGE NAMES



Hinduism teaches that Sudras are trash & should be named accordingly:

``The Namadheya (naming-rite) must be performed as soon as the term of impurity (caused by the birth of the child) is over. (The name to be chosen should be) auspicious in the case of a Brahmana; Indicating power in the case of a Ksatriya; Indicating wealth in the case of a Vaisya; Indicating contempt in the case of a Sudra.`` -- Visnusmrti 27:5-9.





LORD SIVA CONDEMNED FOR ALLOWING A LOW-CASTE (A SUDRA) TO READ VEDAS



Women & Sudras (& outcastes) are not allowed to study the Vedas; this is one reason this ``God`` Siva is denounced for allowing a Sudra the Vedic teachings. Daksa`s curse is as follows:

``The Brahmins will not sacrifice to you along with the other gods, for Siva has defiled the path followed by good men; he is impure, an abolisher of rites and demolisher of barriers, [who gives] the word of the Vedas to a Sudra. He wanders like a madman, naked, laughing, the lord of ghosts, evil-hearted. Let Siva, the lowest of the gods, obtain no share with Indra and Visnu at the sacrifice; let all the followers of Siva be heretics, opponents of the true scriptures, following the heresy whose god is the king of ghosts.`` -- Brahma Purana 2:13:70-73; Garuda Purana 6:19; Bhagavata Purana 4:2:10-32.





HINDU GODS DO NOT COMMUNE WITH LOW-CASTES



In Hinduism, it is understood that women cannot sacrifice or conduct official yajnas (nor become priests of course) because a male relative is required. However, the unfortunate news is that Hindu Gods do not talk to those detested things called `low-castes` either:

``Now the gods do not commune with everyone, but only with a Brahmin, or a Rajanya (Ksatriya), or a Vaisya; for these are able to sacrifice. Should there be occasion for him to converse with a Sudra, let him say to one of those, `Tell this one so and so! Tell this one so and so!` This is the rule of conduct for the consecrated in such a case.`` -- Satapatha Brahmana 3:1:1:10.

Low-castes do not need to despair; Hindu scriptures are utterly ruthless in degrading almost anyone who is Hindu (mortal or divine). Perhaps Brahmins are the exception to the rule though (not women of Brahmins however).

]

LOW-CASTE WIVES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SERVE THE GUESTS



According to the timeless Visnusmrti, only the twice-born caste wives (Brahmin wives, Ksatriya wives & Vaisya wives) of a twice-born man, but not the Sudra wife, are allowed to serve the guests during the sacrifice. He (and she) will be barred from entering heaven if he permits a low caste wife to offer such hospitalities:

``A union of a twice-born man with a Sudra wife can never produce religious merit; it is from carnal desire only that he marries her, being blinded by lust. Men of the three first castes, who through folly marry a woman of the lowest caste, quickly degrade their families and progeny to the state of Sudras. If his oblations to the gods and manes and (his hospitable attentions) to guests are offered principally through her (a Sudra wife`s) hands, the gods and manes (and the guests) will not eat such offerings, and he will not go to heaven.`` -- Visnusmrti 26:5-7.