My Last Chappu

Re: jay

``For some one like shankar, there is no need to be debasing to the very soil that sustained him at least till the teenage years. To me it is an ultimate betrayal of the very surrouds that introduced one to the world, and it will be ultimately dehumanising, which ever country one has adopted.``

I don`t think there is anything wrong in criticising ``the soil that sustained him.`` A lot has gone wrong in India; ignoring it or pretending it doesn`t exist only makes it worse.

But I think shrinker has very superficial and hypocritical criticism, often of suspect motivation.

``It is an arrogance of himalayan proportions, and ultimately an affront to the eternal truth and reality, death, and dust to which we all return.``

Sorry, there is nothing grand or nationalistic about that. The only dust we came from and are ultimately going to end up in is cosmic dust....in the cold, barren, vaccuum of space. There is no heaven of milk, honey, and angels awaiting any of us - be it Timothy McVeigh or Mother Theresa.

Shankar & Veeresh:

Shankar: 80% of the seats were still available to you. You were not good enough for that cut. It was unfortunate that you didnt get it but I`m not shedding any tears for you.

Veersh: Stop f * * *ing dredging up America`s history. Talk about reality as it exists today. Most Indians who live in America understand it is not a perfect country and do not fly into an apopletic rage on discovering its imperfections. It is a pity that you are so insecure that you cannot resist bashing American and Americans even when the discussion is about caste & India. Grow up, cry baby.

Dear veeresh,

The last para of my clumsy attempt to write an article has provoked more indignation than I realised:

((Disgusted by the caste system & how it hit home, I decided to leave my country like a nomad & go to the US, where what you do is more important than who you are.))

I agree, this statement (more than any other) makes the article (& me) condescending & supercilious. No excuses. I DID feel condescending & supercilious when my childhood friend who enjoyed the same benefits & privileges as I did, got into the best med school in Bombay with just a pass class, whereas I was lucky enough to barely make it in with a first class.

I`ll go even further & say that I`m so imperfect that had I NOT got into med school, I would have probably given Sunil a lot more than just a chappu. May the good Lord strike me with a bolt of lightening.

Strange irony of life. In the diasphora I grew up in, we never cared ,or even bothered to know, which of my countless childhood friends belonged to what caste. If I refused to relinquish my cricket bat, after being clean bowled, I recieved a chappu from the nearest fielder (of who knows, what caste)--because I was acting like an arrogant jerk; not because I`m brahmin. Likewise, I never asked anyone what caste they belong to, before I ``chappufied`` them.

Except for that fateful day of my last chappu, I was an ``equal opportunity chappufier``! I guess on that day, the ``true brahmin`` in me, came out. When the chips are down, it proves I`m just as arrogant, condescending, supercilious & bigotted as any other brahmin.

Veereshji, I dont care to know what caste you belong to. I`m just glad to know that had you been in my shoes, on that day, you would have taken the high road. Its just as well you`ve chosen to remain in India & I havent.

There`s no popularity contest going on in Chowk. So let the Jays & harimous rub their hands with glee cos I`ve shown what kind of a creep I have been & can be. If there is one thing I`ve deduced about most Pakistanis on Chowk--they have the fortitude to look inward & criticise Pakistan, & themselves. Comparatively, I think most Indian posters are...shall I say...``brahmins``. Just my opinion...thats all..

AFTER THE LAST CHAPPU

``I fully support Taliban version of Islam. I also agree that this version is of 7th century. You must keep in mind that Russians and then West with their slow and not so slow genocide has pushed this civilization back to 7th century``

The above is by urstruly on another thread. An interesting view of things. It is a fundamental chicken and egg question. Did the outside forces propel afghanistan to the 7th century, or the mind set of the afghanis were tuned to the 7th century and the outside forces simply removed the dichotomy of the mind and surrounds.

The action of the west in vietnam was in no way `inferiorr` to that in vietnam. Today the story is different. The distruction did not fit the mental image, the people of vietnam changed their surrounds.

In afghanistan the opposite was true, the people said golly gosh, this wahat the book said, this is all that we want.

See the changes in pakistan. Under the britsh, honour killing was illegal, today oit is legal in pakistan, according to the lahore high court. Jihadic organisations are eliminating the `kafirs`. Industries are on the decline. Riba is about to go. Pakistanis are fanning out to neighbouring countries, like in the 7 th century. The mind set is creating the compatible surrounds.

Who will deliver the real 7 th century to the pakistanis, like the russians and the west in afghanistan.

Dear Shankar,

I find some of your views supercilious and condescending, so typical of those who moved out of the sub-Continent but kept trying to justify their own (unrequired) guilt.

1) It is, and was, never a question of just an SC/ST certificate. Prospective candidates also had to attach certificates on the family income and those above a cut-off were not allowed to claim SC//ST benefits. The simple fact that the ``family income`` certificates were subverted is a matter of another debate, isn`t it? After all, whether the doctor (your father or theother guys) were SC or ST or not, fact remains that doctors incomes are difficult to prove. Even if they live on Pali Hill or Mount Pleasant Road.

2) If you have ever been to a ``lower caste`` colony and seen the way we ``upper castes`` have subjugated their very thought processes for centuries now, you will probably change your mind. Let me ask you, in all your years in Bombay, did you EVER go walkabout inside Dharavi slums? Next question: did you EVER visit the Harijan quarter of any village say more than 10 kilometres away from any metro?

3) So, in the bargain, if a few thousand or more upper caste Indians got it in the neck, well, law of averages. We all took those chances in the last few decades. The simple fact that the system as we know it seems to have collapsed totally in India can now, ofcourse, be blamed on the ``lower castes``.

4) But then, Shankar, you would not understand. You are now living in a country of the free and the brave, where a black man saluting another was considered a crime at the Olympics till not long ago. Where when coloured people move into a district, the whites move out. Where the indigent population has taken over 200 years to get some of their lands and rights back, after being moved into alcoholic penury. Where women were not allowed to vote, where orientals from Japan were kept in concentration camps, do you want me to go on with the list? Let me guess, you and your supremacy views must be really popular in Memphis or Alabama or . . . hey . . . wait, Charlotte?

Sure, you go right ahead and give Sunil your best executed finale chappu or whatever. Proves he had balls.

But if you had them, you would come back to India and try to improve the system. But then, do you have the cojones?

Shankar

And here I was assuming from the title of your article that you were about to confess to being Latif Chappu...I was all set to congratulate you! (Though perhaps unlikely combos might be better...Shankar is ALSO Asif Naqshbandi, for example, or Shankar is ALSO Urstruly (titter)...I don`t know whom I should claim to ALSO be, any suggestions?)

Re: quotas - it is not a perfect system, but surely we need SOMETHING like that in India - perhaps combining background (caste) with income levels and educational levels of parents? But I enjoyed your article - combined some useful insight with linguistic enrichment for all.

Zafar

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This was funny shankar :) Good job! But you really need to start making use of the spell-checker, it helps immensely. :)

And try to ignore the political mongers, going on a rant about the caste or quota systems. They`re not worth anyone`s time.

Regards

Kiran

hamidm on suffering...

yaar, khuda ki kasam Hindustaan mein hamari exactly yehi halat thi... (atleast Pune mein)

This was funny shankar :) Good job! But you really need to start making use of the spell-checker, it helps immensely. :)

And try to ignore the political mongers, going on a rant about the caste or quota systems. They`re not worth anyone`s time.

Regards

Kiran

Fuzair # 17

I think I would recommend Rapidex English Speaking Course for Bapu. It did wonders for Kapil Dev, and I`m sure Bapu will love it too.

As far as acadamic achievement is concerned, my travails can be summed up with:

``Padh padh ke patthar, tey likh likh key kaath

Master ney jad puchhya, tey tera dunni baath``

Cheers

Stuka

Ref RSaxena #: 20

[Lose an Indian passport overseas and good luck getting a new one any time soon. In contrast, last month I lost my American greencard in Europe and the American consulate had me in and out of there in 20 minutes.]

Reminds me of my time at the Indian Consulate in San Francisco. As I am waiting for a visa, the clerk behind the counter was aking a Sikh, who was applying for a replacement passport, how come he had lost his passport 3 times in the last 9 months. The Sikh was then told that his papers will have to go to New Delhi and processed there.

Obviously, this particular gentlemen was handing his passport over to someone else in India to travel abroad and the Consulate had to make sure that nobody else has travelled on the ``lost`` passport. Considering this was the time when a judge in San Francisco had granted political asylum to a Sikh, I guess the precautions were justified.

semipreciousme,

Sunil is a pediatrician in Bombay--taken over his dad`s practice. Pediatrics is the most covetted residency in Bombay. Again, a percentage of seats for every residency are reserved for dalits. If a non-scheduled caste wants to get a residency in peds, he/she must score in the top 5% in Int. Medicine. Not so for a bloomin` ``nomad``:)

To be fair, though, Sunil is a damn good pediatrician. Just goes to show ``grades`` actually dont mean much in ``real`` life.

He`s got 2 daughters. One is going to graduate high school in a year. Fortunately for them, the girls have their mother`s good looks. When I visited India, I had asked him if he`s going to enroll her in Xavier`s?! He clutched his chest & said ``O God; dont remind me!!:)``

Haha! What goes around, comes around!

Rsaxena 20,

You dont have to tell me the travails of carrying the asoka stupa passport. The burden of visa requirements can make you throw it away. A few months ago in Kuala lampur, on a transit, I thought of visiting an old friend, the immigration chappie wanted some additional info. I said, Oh it must be because I am an indian, no sir he said politely, the same rule applies to pakistanis and bangladeshis. Lucky I didnt have a citizenship application form.

It is always preferable to have a `developed country` passport, and every indian should get one at earliest unless there is that in-effable longing to be an `indian`. What I was critical of was the urge of the like of shankar to talk of it as the happiest day in his life, the stinking india the blah blah.

One could be obscessive about the identity, many said that one could call oneself an indian, travelling on country x travel documents, when one gets older it is the fear of getting deported from india for overstaying the visa. That is a freightening prospect to contemplate.

For some one like shankar, there is no need to be debasing to the very soil that sustained him at least till the teenage years. To me it is an ultimate betrayal of the very surrouds that introduced one to the world, and it will be ultimately dehumanising, which ever country one has adopted. It is an arrogance of himalayan proportions, and ultimately an affront to the eternal truth and reality, death, and dust to which we all return. That is purely my opinion, others obviously have theirs.

regards

jay

harimau,

I havnt read the book by taroor. I do know of a few instances where the lower caste even after getting a good positions behaves in a `respectful` way to the higher caste. This sort of really embarasses the higer caste where they are decent, the others make that into a sign of weakness and remark, `` see the lower caste, what is in the blood cannot be changed``.

regards

jay