Breaking News: September 11, 2001

Sadna

I agree, we have had more than enough from these murderers.

Ordinary

Thanks for the Chomsky article. It was heartening to read him on Chowk, being his usual lefty and brilliant self.

This is going to sound awful, but Chowkies in the U.S., are you aware that the media is preparing us, or manufacturing our consent for what`s going to happen? I hope I see Chowkies at the Brecht Forum on Saturday-call the venue for timings on peace vigil.

From today`s edition of Dawn

``One-sided view of US tragedy

I am an American citizen of Pakistani origin and have lived in the USA for 35 years, far more years than I spent in the country of my birth. My children were raised here and all four of my grandchildren were born in the United States. America has given me freedom to practise my faith. Over the years I have come to love this land.

The tragedy which struck us in New York and Washington which has resulted in loss of innocent civilian lives has devastated me. I hope and pray that it was not the work of Muslims because my religion is a religion of peace in which there is no place for suicide and compulsion.

But I have concerns about the way the US media and fellow citizens are taking only a one-sided view of this tragedy. I have been glued to the TV and have concluded that such an organized flawless operation could not be the work of any Muslim terrorist group. They do not have the resources and organization to pull through a successful operation as this one. Where were pilots trained on variety of commercial aircraft and then motivated to hijack planes for a suicidal attack?

If this was an act of the Palestinians then why did they not hijack a dozen of such planes in the Arab world and attack Israeli targets which would have finished the state of Israel in hours? Why do it in the USA where hijacking was most difficult and targets not so familiar to a foreigner?

And then why the lady Olson who was a passenger in one of the ill-fated planes and a TV personnel who made two calls from the plane to her husband, after hijacking had taken place, did not disclose the identity of the hijackers? She was so specific about weapons carried by them and how they overpowered the pilots and killed them and stabbed the hostesses and rounded up the passengers in the rear of the airplane. The two calls were long enough to give detail of the entire hijacking operation but not a word on the identity of hijackers.

These hijackers had no need to wear masks as they were on a suicidal mission. They had no reason to hide as they were going to die along with the witnesses who were on the same plane. I am sure this lady did reveal the identity which is being now concealed by the authorities for some reason and no one in the US media is even questioning this obvious flaw and blindly blaming Muslims and Osama bin Laden. I do not condone Osama`s actions but I am afraid that America, in frustration might attack and punish the wrong guy while the real perpetrator will go un punished.

This is quite common in the American justice system. It almost happened in the case of Oklahoma but luckily Timothy McVeigh was caught on a traffic signal and a retaliation on a Muslim country did not take place. Unfortunately, the conduct of Jihadi groups have created this impression that every terrorist act stems form a Muslim terrorist group.

Similarly, a passenger in the flight which crashed in Pennsylvania also made a cell call from lavatory of the plane to 911 and described the whole drama before the plane went down. Both these callers must have described the hijackers but for some reason it is being kept a secret and no one in America is questioning this obvious flaw in the investigation of this tragedy.

HAMID

USA``

This is from The Daily Dawn, 14th September 2001

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm



THE FURY OF DESPAIR

BY AYAZ AMIR

``Appalling as the loss of innocent lives is, the question has to be asked as to why the United States is so totally oblivious of the strong hatred it excites in so many despairing corners of the globe.

The people who chose to carry out the suicide attacks on New York and Washington left horrendous death and destruction in their wake. But they also sacrificed their own lives into the bargain. For all their meticulous planning they would not have succeeded had they not been willing to die. What then was the pain and anger lying behind their actions? After all, passionate belief or dark despair foreshadows the readiness to embrace death. In all the saturation coverage of this disaster, the theme played upon the most has been the fight between good and evil. Only in passing, if at all, has anyone cared to mention the supreme motivation of the attackers.

Callous though it is to say this, innocent lives lost in random or even calculated acts of violence can often be a great spur to hypocrisy because the feelings they evoke can never be the same for all people. Surely, the death of Palestinian children at the hands of Israeli soldiers will not arouse the same feelings in New York as they will in the Palestinian occupied territories. Are all people everywhere affected in the same measure by the plight of Iraqi children suffering the effects of sanctions imposed on their country? Has anyone at a distance foregone his supper for the massacres of innocent people in Burundi and Rwanda?

The events in New York and Washington have plunged the United States into grief. Across parts of the Middle East and especially the Palestinian occupied territories they have led to completely different feelings. While no one publicly has condoned these acts, the Hamas leader, Sheikh Yassine, spoke for many people when he said that the United States was reaping what it had sown.

It is not a failure of military intelligence, as much of the TV commentary would have it, which lies behind the devastation in New York and Washington but a failure of understanding. And, in equal measure, an excess of arrogance. For the US refuses to recognize that its stance in the Middle East - principally, its blind support of Israel - is what fuels anger across wide swathes of the Muslim world, giving a fillip to militancy. Sole superpower status has also lent an arrogant edge to American behaviour encouraging it to think it can get away with anything. This is not to say the US is an evil empire. Far from it. But in the Middle East its judgement and vision are distorted by its special relationship with Israel.

Children killed by Israeli bullets are victims of ``crossfire``, one of the most misused words in the on-going intifida. Cold-blooded assassination becomes ``targeted killing`` as if that somehow is a more excusable form of murder. Seldom has the truth been twisted in so blatant or sophisticated a manner.

Does not this selectivity give birth to resentment and, when resentment alone is unavailing, to despair? Unless the US realizes this it will keep catching the wrong end of the stick, stressing punitive action when it should be considering the causes of what it considers to be terrorism. Osama is not cause but consequence. If the US was at all inclined to look for causes it could take a closer look at the role of Ariel Sharon who has done more to harden common Arab attitudes than any other Israeli leader in recent years.

Another dynamic is also at work. After the taming of Arafat, the destruction of Iraq and the restraint imposed on Qaddafi, the US thought it had licked the problem of Middle Eastern terrorism. But it was wrong. Three factors gave birth to a new militancy: the Iranian revolution, the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and the rise of the Amal and Hamas militias in Lebanon.

In Lebanon the spirit of resistance against Israeli aggression was encouraged by Syria and influenced by Iran. In Afghanistan the brand of militancy which came into existence was totally different. More `fundamentalist` in character, it was bolstered by Zia-ul-Haq`s Pakistan and fuelled by Saudi and American money. In an ironic reversal of roles, it is this militancy, born in the crucible of the cold war and baptized in Afghanistan by the US itself, which the US now proclaims as its principal enemy. Osama, let us not forget, earned his jihad spurs fighting the Soviet army before he saw Satan`s likeness in the shape of the US. Thus do demons come to haunt their own creators.

As for Iraq, it served American interests by acting as a counterweight to Iran. It was only much later that Saddam Hussein was swept by delusions of grandeur when he invaded Kuwait. Had he not committed that blunder he would have remained in the good books of the US.

But the mood in Washington is not introspective. It is angry and it is looking for quick villains. Even if hard evidence is yet to come by, fingers are already pointing at Osama bin Laden. This has direct implications for us as the road to Laden passes through Pakistan. Or so at least our American friends insist on thinking. We should therefore brace ourselves for more pressure, more direct than ever before, to help deliver Laden. Being in an angry mood, the US will not take kindly to our disclaimers that there is just so much influence we exercise with the Taliban (Osama`s protectors) and no more.

In any event, we must look to our dignity, or what after our perennial begging bowl is left of it. While there can be no question of Pakistan staying aloof from any concerted effort against `global terrorism` - never mind the fact that apart from being the sole superpower the US is also the world`s leading lexicographer, giving its own spin to words and their meaning - Pakistan should be allowing no one to walk over it.

The manner in which we delivered Ramzi Yousef and Aimal Kansi to the US was less that of a sovereign country and more that of a vassal state doing the bidding of a distant godfather. What did we get for our pains? There are just so many blows our battered dignity can take. While doing the right thing we should take care not to be stampeded into ill-considered acquiescence.

Far greater than anything physical or economic, the disaster that has struck the US is a blow to its pride. Such things happened to other countries, not the US. But Fortress America, as television commentators have not been slow to point out, has been breached with comparisons being drawn with Pearl Harbour. But Pearl Harbour was way out in the Pacific. These suicide attacks have penetrated to the heart of America: Wall Street and the Pentagon, the one a symbol of America`s financial power, the other of its military might.

Even so, it would not do to exaggerate the effects of what has happened. America is not only the military and economic superpower but also the most dynamic nation on the planet. The work of rehabilitation has already begun and before we know it the physical scars will heal. But some of the psychic impact will remain.

This time terrorists struck with hijacked aircraft. What if they get hold of nuclear weapons? Pakistan, seen increasingly in alarmist literature as a power teetering on the brink of collapse, should brace itself also for a fresh round of nuclear fundamentalism.

In American eyes the arc of crisis now visible across the skies stretches from Palestine to Afghanistan. More than any other country, Pakistan will feel the fallout of this perception.

But what about civilization? From Bush and Powell to Blair, the events of the last few days have been likened to a war on civilization, with the twin gods of global information, CNN and BBC, picking up and reinforcing this refrain. Israeli bullets killing Palestinian children do not constitute an attack on civilization. The bombing of Vietnam and the invasion of Cambodia qualify for no such epithet, not even in historical retrospect. The plight of Iraqi children is not an affront to human feelings. But different standards rule when death and destruction strike at the heart of Manhattan and the Pentagon.

To state the obvious, the loss of innocent lives is despicable and worthy of the strongest condemnation wherever it occurs. We could all do, however, with a little lowering of double standards.``

Some to think about dont u all think????

rgds,

C

Only fools believe that getting rid of Osama will take care of the problem. There are thousands of others like him who blame West, and US in particular, for their myopic culture and miserable living conditions resulting from it. These people will keep attacking US, each time with more losses for us, until they are eliminated, along with their sympathizers and hosts. As Powell said, they have to be taken out with ``branches and roots``. Get ready for a nasty and unconventional war with this enemy. Lots of innocent people will loose life. War has just started.

We are used to punditry of NY Times, Wash. Post and Wall Street Journal etc. However, yesterday NY Post expressed the popular mood in a much better, and blunt, manner (page 3, 9/13). Some excerpts:

``This is war.

It needs to be prosecuted as such.

The heavens need to fall on their heads.

They need to bleed.

Not next month. Not next month.

Now.

Who are they? Who cares?

Cast a wide net, and you’ll catch the fish that need catching.

So locate them.

Pinpoint them.

Bomb them.

And then bomb their smoldering rubble - one more time.

The weight of America’s military might needs to be visited on those who planned and executed Tuesday’s attacks.

And on those who support the terror - benighted souls that they are.

America needs to strike hard - and as often as it takes to impose peace.

But if peace doesn’t take, then America needs to do it again.

Until its enemies finally get it.

They believe that they are on a fast track to heaven. Which is fine.

Dispatch enough of them on the journey with no return, and this war will end quickly enough.

Bombs away.``

May God give us courage and patience to take this enemy out along with its supporters, sympathizers and host states to make USA a safe place again for our children!

News Flash

Earlier reports identifying Bukhari brothers as terrorists have been with withdrawn. Adnan Buhkari is still in Florida, his brother Amir passed away last year in a crash.

So much for the much vaunted and super efficient intelligence agencies. Apparently the only thing they are good at is arresting illegal aliens and bringing about the harrassment of Muslims in America.

But, please Indians, do not despair, there will be more reports for you to feed on, and get innocent Sikhs cabbies beaten up. They like the Captive Kashmiri are also your ``own people``.

Romair,

#419

Dunno why, but when I read your posts I get the feeling that you think Pakistan is this poor, long suffering, victimised country that has no responsibility for terrorism in this world, the beacon of peace that has been used and abused, eventhough it has done everything in its power to be a good friend to everybody, but crapped upon by bullies & unscrupulous neighbors. Maybe I`m exaggerating a bit with sarcasm.

I dont see any Pakistanis here kowtowing or apologising to the US because they are Pakistanis. Like other human beings, most Pakistanis are expressing their outrage at what has happened & the need to fully cooperate with the US & its allies to flush out this terrorism.

1) Its very convenient for Pakistanis like you to call those jihadis ``freedom fighters``. In fact, you dont seem to think they even do any wrong. When hindu pilgrims & sikhs are killed in Kashmir, Pakistanis automatically believe it is the Indian army that is doing that, just to make the jihadis look bad! Let me tell you. Those 70-80 thousand Kashmiri killed--not all of them died at the hands of Indian army. Many, many of them are killed by those jihadis.

Eventhough I`ve condemned India`s policies in Kashmir--Pakistan is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Classic example; take that interview of that jihadi on a previous post on this thread--does he want autonomy for Kashmir?--bull. The real agenda of these jihadis is to put a taliban style govt in Kashmir. Even when they ``liberate`` Kashmir, their jehad wont stop. They will make trouble in other parts of India. And Pakistan gives only MORAL & POLITICAL support to them.

Maybe Pakistanis like you believe that crap. The fact is NO OTHER country in the world believes it. Why the heck do you think NOT A SINGLE OTHER COUNTRY--INCLUDING ISLAMIC COUNTRIES have pressured India!

2) Whether you like it or not, accept reality, jihadis = terrorists. If not, Pakistan will be branded a terrorist state, without India`s goading. Colin Powell`s interview was revealing. He considers Musharraf a friend. But at the same time, responding to a blunt statement of a reporter (who said, words are cheap, nows the time to put your money where your mouth is), he indicated that that will be the message Pakistan is going to get--diplomatically, of course.

Anything short of complete, unflinching Pakistani support will not sit well with the US & NATO. You may whine ``thats not fair``---tough cookies; life is not fair.

3) Please dont give me that crap abot how the US made Pakistan suffer after the Soviets retreated from Afganistan. Most of the post-Soviet problem is Pakistan`s doing. It was Pakistan that installed the Taliban--not the US. The US gave Pakistan billions in aid. Your ``economic miracle`` is BASED on AID & FOREIGN REMITTANCES. If Pakistan squanders the aid, is it the responsibility of the US? It was Pakistanis who looted their country. Surely BB & NS are not Americans.

Your military has been given the best American weapons & training--you yourself have benefitted from that American largesse. The US has paid for Pakistan`s services many times over; but Pakistan still whines & blames all its problems on others.

4) This is a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY for Musharraf---manna from heaven! The eyes of the world are on him. He has CRAVED attention since the time he came to power. Either he cooperates fully & goes down in history as the Champion in the fight against terrorism or The BIGGEST FOOL who lost an opportunity.

When Pakistan responded in the tit-for-tat nuclear blast; she lost a Golden Opportunity. If she had not jumped when her ``paranoid button`` was pressed; India would have been an outcast country today.

Now, Pakistan has another Golden Opportunity. If she gets her ``victim`` button pressed, she`ll flub it again. Sure hope, for Pakistan`s sake Mushy doesnt think like you.

1. Re. Sadhna`s letters above 400 number since I haven`t seen others. Have you gone racid [as I see, Sohni Dharty uses this word, most appropriately], in the mind too? You sound as if you are from an alien planet. I liked your style and analyses [even grudgingly] when you first came to the States. At first I thought you were in Camden at Rutgers but later, when you joined the ``service`` one had to be impressed by your astute approach in your posts. But now it seems that you have ``lost it``, in all scholarly and professional senses of the word.

2. Don`t be discouraged though. There are more fantastic people. One of them says in effect, ``Oh, I have now understood the whole drama! It is a Shia conspiracy!`` Wow!

3. With the news that generated this exchange all I am interested in learning is who, what, and where of the demolition of two buildings and one large corridor, all with loss of life.

The same way, that is -- as I read and heard -- when Iraq was bombed nine times in one week, the week prior to THIS bombing. WE knew who did it, we also knew that the United Nations recognizes the right of sovereign nations to defend themselves. What I didn`t know was how much was the ``collateral`` damage, and how did the ``colaterally`` killed father or mother, or children`s family coped!

4. You have rancid banola oil in your gourds now. You have already started spreading the belief that ``Muslims`` did it. Since you guys still use malodorous clichés, there is no such thing as a Muslim any longer to you. It is ``terrorists`` or ``fundamentalists``, not realizing that this is the age of fundamentalism. People observe one minute prayer silence. American Muslims, who don`t know the presence of a mosque in their dinky town show up last night in 800 numbers and their mosque is molotov-ed or shot at to be found in mild ruins the next morning!

In Pakistan there are Lashkars, in India RSS holds power and Shiv Sena spreads terror whereever they can, in Britain the most conservative of the liberals are now in power who are ready to bomb anybody on the drop of a hat. Three or four times a week their planes go on a picknick or for hawa-khory over Basra in the evening to bomb the area in playing a tick tack tow bombing game. France is quiet which is their brand of ``fundamentalism``, as, indeed, it is of Germany.

5. Of course, I can go on but I could also have kept quiet and accepted your police, judge and jury`s role of condemning a man or country on the basis of religion and not politics, bothered me. If you recall, and I am sure you remember me from my scathing criticism of the army and army rule in Pakistan you would recall that I was concerned with the constitution and not with religion and fundamentalism.

6. The problem now seems to me to be the translation of these internal and international problems by the powers that be, as religious in nature rather than purely political as their base is known to us. Take Palestinians: You probably remember the Bishop who was caught by the Israelis trying to smuggle a big cache of arms in his car. You also probably hear about the ``collateral`` loss of Palestinian Christians on the West Bank and elsewhere. But have you heard or analysed this problem in terms other than Muslims and Jews?

7. But I digress and enough said. Just Keep your mouths shut about who is responsible. Keep your racism locked in your attic. I can understand Sadhna`s motive. It`s her job and with the integration of Mossad with Raw and other agencies, including Indian Institute of Psychological Research in Delhi, she may have to be more aggressive but what about the rest of you, zeno-kiss, Hamidm and the rest of you Pakistani and Indian clowns?

8. Should you must, then use the causal chain analysis, since this incident didn`t just happen for fun, your manuranjan, or your cursed t`fann`ané-tab`a!

Most sincerely yours.

YJ

This is an appeal. Those of you who were at the WTC or near by and have eye-witness accounts of the attack...could you please share those experiences in your own words. If you could also send me a photo of yourselves scanned, with your real names and nature of work/designations, the place of work...I am hoping to run it as a series of interviews on a newssite.

Those who want to use what they have already posted here are also welcome.

harishnambiar@hometrade.com

PS: Only eye witness accounts...no analysis.

Thank you.

re: zeno_kiss # 467

What kind of blitherng idiocy is that?! Why would you write such utter, complete nonsense? As it is, aren`t Shias already facing difficult times without you enligtening us all with your infinite wisdom?

sighhhhhhh.........reading all this has been so depressing....and before some of you point your cyber fingers at me for being insensitive......i`m sorry but it`s been a looong three days.....my dad`s surgery was cancelled because some idiot decided to crash a plane into the pentagon....one of our dearest family friends was almost killed by that same damn plane....and i just got such a depressing email from a friend in ny about how the white supremists have started sharpening their knives.....

ylh

“Yesterday, I was shocked and horrified to see a fat uncouth and uncivilized Reporter of possibly Indian origin who really couldnt speak English trying to raise the issue of Pakistan”

...yeah, I saw that too...it was so obvious what his real purpose was and I was glad to see Powell rebuff him.....

sadna

....``Unfortunately the worlds poorest country`s honored guest.......``

......the taliban should realize by now that this ``honored`` guest has not only long overstayed his welcome but also taken advantage of their ``hospitality``

...By reading different responses here either by zealot fanatics of Pakistan or ultra patriotic Indians, its seems to be very clear that either of these will chose the ``right`` stuff they like from the ongoing tragedy of their likening and will chose to malign the otherside for personal or egoistic gain.

like somwhere i read that once there was a smart kid holding a bird in his hand, met a wiseman. He asked the wiseman can you tell me whether the bird in my hand is alive or dead. Depending on the answer and to make the wiseman look fooled, he can either squeezed or release the neck of the bird to either let it live or die. The wiseman said ``its all in our hand son``

so its all in our hand what we like to choose...

Hoping for that day when RATIONALITY will become the religion.

I came to a personal conclusion that it is a Shia conspiracy against Sunnis, after reading, listening and going through lots of thinking. Iran was attacked by Iraq during 80’s and was well supported by the Saudis and other Middle Eastern countries. Recently Shias are the subject of racism both in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Several of the Iranian officials and diplomats have been assassinated in both countries. Besides that scores of Shia Intellectual has been murdered recently in Pakistan. Iran is planning to take revenge with both Pakistan and Afghanistan since the beginning of the Iran-Iraq war. They have planned the whole terrorist drama and send their own men with fake identities and they can also use Arab people due to their presence under the name of Hiz-bullah in Lebanon. Iran is playing a very dangerous game and it shouldn’t forget that if these two countries are going to doom he could be the third target of West. Iran might get rid of its two rival but the people of these two countries would never forget that and will take their revenge.

I just coudnt resist...

On the Bombings

Noam Chomsky





The terrorist attacks were major atrocities. In scale they may not reach the level of many others, for example, Clinton`s bombing of the Sudan with no credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical supplies and killing unknown numbers of people (no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry at the UN and no one cares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases, which easily come to mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in doubt. The primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors, secretaries, firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow to Palestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to lead to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications for undermining civil liberties and internal freedom.



The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of the project of ``missile defense.`` As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly by strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US, including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely to launch a missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction. There are innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. But today`s events will, very likely, be exploited to increase the pressure to develop these systems and put them into place. ``Defense`` is a thin cover for plans for militarization of space, and with good PR, even the flimsiest arguments will carry some weight among a frightened public.



In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope to use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the likely US actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like this one, or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than they appeared to be before the latest atrocities.



As to how to react, we have a choice. We can express justified horror; we can seek to understand what may have led to the crimes, which means making an effort to enter the minds of the likely perpetrators. If we choose the latter course, we can do no better, I think, than to listen to the words of Robert Fisk, whose direct knowledge and insight into affairs of the region is unmatched after many years of distinguished reporting. Describing ``The wickedness and awesome cruelty of a crushed and humiliated people,`` he writes that ``this is not the war of democracy versus terror that the world will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about American missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia ­ paid and uniformed by America`s Israeli ally ­ hacking and raping and murdering their way through refugee camps.`` And much more. Again, we have a choice: we may try to understand, or refuse to do so, contributing to the likelihood that much worse lies ahead.



Noam Chomsky

...in these hour of dread we need to be bold enough to ask the right queston..may saner mind prevail.

Hi all,

We have the one of the most tragic terrorist attack ever happened. And what do we see in Chowk? Some spinning it for pakistan and some for India. Some things never change.

As someone had already said, I hope Pakistan uses this as an opportunity and come out of that fundamentalist drain. This is a time when Islamic terrorists have lost sympathy everywhere (i hope even in pakistan) and the government can strike at them.

My deepest condolence to the U.S. citizens on the board.

Rgds,

Vijay

Romair (Umair) # 433

You have very intelligently and effectively said it what most pakis feels about it. Its the not that Musharaf want to help US but its the aftermath that he and other progressive pakistanis feels that once US get their objectives they will leaves us cold and alone to these barbaric vultures.

PM should be very carefull that whatever help he is going to give he have to wiegh the consequences and let American know what delima his country is facing. America should give more concrete and garranted resolute that they will be there for Pakistan in the need of their most vunerable hours.

Actually i heard the same sentiment from the a frequent arab middle eastern expert (i forgot his name )that the when the american job is done they left them alone with these fanatics...e.g. Iraq war when they didnt elimnate Saddam Hussian and didnt finish their job. The key thing here is to FINISH the JOB.

By capturing Bin Laden will not solve the problem and Americans now seems to realozed that. They got to finished the job and more importantly start searching the ROOT cuase of the problem.

I hope the saner mind will prevail.

God bless those innocent lives lost.

and God helps Pakistan fromm the regressive scrouge of Fundamentalism...