Just the End of the Beginning

adnan #20

[I would further like to enlighten the rather learned scholars on chowk that the hashishis mentioned by this neptune person were none other than the Ismailis Whose present leader is (Prince? of wht) Karim Aga Khan

The leader of the assasins was one Hassan Ibn Saba (man of the mountains) known in Ismaili literature as ``Da`i Hassan Ibn Saba``]

Not exactly. True that Hasan Sabah was an Ismaili dai, but he split with the Fatimid Caliphate (the Ismaili Imam) and established himself as the Imam.

Thus, at best, the assassins can be called an offshoot of the Ismailis. They were completely destroyed by the Mongols, and thus you will not find anybody today to answer for them. No point quizzing the present day Ismailis.

with regards,

``This Neptune person``

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/sep15/iladen.htm
Pak, Taliban may get rid of Laden
From O P Verma
DH News Service
NEW DELHI, Sept 14

While the US is making logistic preparations to launch an attack on Afghanistan, plans are afoot both by Taliban and Pakistan to hand over Osama Bin Laden either dead or alive to Americans, blaming CIA for the incident, security experts feel here. Handing over Laden, dead or alive, to the US seems to be the best soft option which found favour in Kabul and Islamabad as the only face saving solution to escape the wrath of Americans. All those who broke away from the Saudi Arabian billionaire are being tapped for this operation.

One of the 150 special security guards for Laden, Omar Abdul Hakim Abu Mausab Soori, an Arab, who parted ways with Laden early this year following differences with him is believed to have been drafted for the job. Soori, being one of the aides of Laden split the bodyguards and moved out with 60 of them, who belong to Algeria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria. Laden, who has now taken shelter in one of the deep tunnels with all facilities under the high mountains, may run away to Libya or Iraq, Indian security agencies feel. Both Taliban and Pakistan would very much like to shift Laden to another country to stave off any military action by the US. Most of the terrorists trained by him are brain-washed Muslim youths from various countries.

After Soori separated from Laden following cash crunch owing to sealing of Laden’s accounts in Western countries, at least two attempts have been made on Laden`s life in the recent past. In April this year, one Iraqi mercenary was arrested while trying to hit at Laden and in May-June three Arab terrorists were nabbed for attempting to kill Laden. In both the attempts on life of Laden, the mercenaries were paid hefty amounts by certain forces in Riyadh.

Laden, who has moved to one of the numerous tunnels he dug out for his safety, has fully dedicated and motivated security guards of Hijbul Mujahideens belonging to Pakistan and Bangladesh. Of late, Taliban authorities were keeping a strict watch on Laden for security reasons and for strategic reasons. Taliban authorities had clubbed six training camps being run by Laden into three in Northern areas.

Dear Cemendtaur:

Your article is a collection of interesting questions.

If I may add for you two additional question:

Is this the end of the beginning -- or the beginning of the end?

Is Mulla Omar married to `sassura`` Osama Bin Laden`s daughter -- or Osama Bin Laden is married to ``sassura`` Mulla Omar`s daughter?

Thanks

#: 14

Rdesikan

Here`s a scenario that could well happen. If you think that my imagination has taken flight, who would have thought that a bunch of crazies would bring the twin towers down?



Rdesikan

We wouldnt consider you an imaginative person.You are badly mistaken.Dont think of yourself any more than what you are code coolie from india akin to pre indendence indentured sugar plantation coolie brought by British to Fiji,Trinidad,West Indies .Nothing has changed ,So dont tryto pass your self as a genius

CNN’s refutation:

http://www.poynter.org/medianews/letters.htm#jordan

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this is in response to dolphin`s Reply #: 10

I used the phrase ``reported to be`` because I was not invited in the wedding.

Kindly review the following:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/bio.html

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/bin-ladin.htm

http://members.nbci.com/afg_taliban/omar.html

http://www.islam.org.au/articles/15/LADIN.HTM

Pakistan should confirm if someone from Afghanistan was involved or not (verbal statements that Osama is responsible are not enough). If there was someone involved, ask Taleban to given them/him up, if they refuse.....let the US come in. Whoever is a part of this, should be flushed out and given the severest of punishments.

Good background material now in full text at the website for foreign affairs magazine:

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/home/terrorism.asp

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Nuclear options

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20010914-87723680.htm



Time to use the nuclear option

Thomas Woodrow

The time has come for the United States to make good on its past pledges that it will use all military capabilities at its disposal to defend U.S. soil by delivering nuclear strikes against the instigators and perpetrators of the attacks against the nation`s political capital and the nation`s financial capital.

At a bare minimum, tactical nuclear capabilites should be used against the bin Laden camps in the desert of Afghanistan. To do less would be rightly seen by the poisoned minds that orchestrated these attacks as cowardice on the part of the United States and the current administration.

To consider use of the nation`s nuclear forces, in the present circumstances, cannot be brushed aside as an overly emotional response to the unknown face of terrorism. To begin with, we know who that face belongs to, and we know where a goodly portion of his logistical and training capabilities are located. A series of low-level, tactical nuclear strikes in the Afghanistan desert would pose no risk to large population centers and would carry little risk of fallout spreading to populated areas.

Also, our nuclear capabilities were designed to include just such a mission, and they are capable of fulfilling such a mission.

Lastly, the use of nuclear weapons against the bin Laden groups and his supporters will rightly shock the world, but it will also shock those nations that have been disposed for a variety of reasons to back the terrorist groups with economic and political support. The United States will, in effect, have raised the bar against future such acts from occurring. If we, as a nation, show the willingness to use the ultimate weapon in the current situation, there can be no doubt anywhere in the globe that the United States will make good on its past pledges to defend its sovereign territory with such weapons.

The attacks that occurred this week have been classified both as acts of war and as a second Pearl Harbor, but these designations ennoble the acts in Washington and New York. An act of war is constituted when one nation-state uses military force against another. Pearl Harbor was used by Japan to attack U.S. military targets to begin such an act of war. The bin Laden groups are not nations or states, and they have primarily targeted civilian populations. In fact, the use of so-called Islamic fundamentalist terrorism on a global scale is a new phenomena, a product of the modern age. In centuries past, civilized nations would conduct ``punitive`` expeditions against pirate regimes, but those actions were strictly local in scope and the protagonists could not approach the sophistication shown by the bin Laden groups. As we have seen from such ``punitive`` actions by the previous administration, those actions achieved next to nothing.

The fight against the bin Laden groups will be a fight to the death, and this is another valid reason to make use of our nation`s nuclear forces. Unlike the more limited goals of wars between nations -- territory, formal surrender, etc. -- bin Laden`s goals are the elimination of the United States as the global leader for progressive political, economic and cultural change. Should, God forbid, the United States withdraw from the Middle East and Persian Gulf, the terrorists will raise their sights to eliminate our influence elswhere in the world. For a vision of what these groups see as their ultimate objective, we need look no further than the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, where women are beaten in the street for walking in public, owners of television sets are sent to prison or shot and ancient Buddhist monuments to universal peace and understanding are reduced to rubble.

No, the bin Laden groups must be exterminated completely before they become more powerful in their efforts to exterminate us. We should use our nuclear capabilities to help achieve this. We must, as a nation, take the firmest action possible against this growing evil in the world, before its poison spreads even further. If not the United States, who? If not now, under these circumstances, when?

Thomas Woodrow, a 22-year veteran intelligence officer, resigned from the Defense Intelligence Agency in May.

Reply

#: 16 Neptune

I would further like to enlighten the rather learned scholars on chowk that the hashishis mentioned by this neptune person were none other than the Ismailis Whose present leader is (Prince? of wht) Karim Aga Khan

The leader of the assasins was one Hassan Ibn Saba (man of the mountains) known in Ismaili literature as ``Da`i Hassan Ibn Saba``

wassalaam

Adnan

some ismaili care to rerspond?

Are these not pakistanis - they have been named.

from Jang

The daily named the suspects as Pakistanis Muhammad Asif, Rana Abdul Gafhoor, Imran Asjid Husain, Mangat Sajid Hussain, Malik Tahir Mahmood and Muhammed Shahbaz; Bolivians Maria Angela Bustillo Molina and Ana Maria Vedia Barron; as well as Imtiaz Ahmad.

check out

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/sep2001-daily/14-09-2001/main/main5.htm

This is awful. Its a sad day. Pakistanis involved in terrorism. Boy this is bad.

dolphin 10

Married a 13 year old???

You must be kidding!

Re Zafar

This heeng smelling thing is simply the work of some heengnoramus. They are misheeng something. Jeez, I could pun away for ever. But this monikor is funny, what the heck. Methinks it started with Hamidm, but the dude has a sense of humour. BTW, could we say that the Koreans are Kimchi smelling and what would the Pakis smell of? Unwashed beards? Garlic-/onion- or simply bad-breath? Suggestions welcome.

Re US engagement in the area, I do not think the Indian govt/coaltion will try to take all the credit. As I last heard, Sonia and the rest of the opposition have agreed with Vajpayee and the invitation to use Indian facilities. If you ask me, smacks of low self respect, but what else is a pauper to do. At least this time, we know which side of the bread is buttered. Just as the US has unified in its response, I think you will see such a movement in India. They`re talking of WWIII over here in NYC.