Just the End of the Beginning

This is eerily reminiscent of about a 1000 years back.

A secret sect within Islam called the Hashishim (known to the Europeans as the `assassins`) spread its tentacles across the islamic world and much beyond, spanning Europe to India. It was a hidden political empire within the border of other empires. Established by a recluse self-declared `imam` by the name of Hasan Sabah, the followers swore absolute allegiance to the leader. They would infiltrate the ranks of his enemies and rise to positions of prominence and trust. Very often they would pose as religious teachers. At an opportune moment they would kill the enemy, but would not try to evade capture. They would calmly face sure death, having achieved their objective. They maintained their reign of terror for about a century and a half before their nerve center at Alamut and most of their network was destroyed by the Mongols under Hulaku Khan.

Maybe we will see a modern Hulaku wipe out the present day scourge.... unfortunately it will come at the cost of a Bagdad getting sacked.

fairdinkum #6 ``Pakistan armed forces on highest alert! ``

You mean they have started coming to work at 9 am, and cut out the buscuits with the late morning tea?

(Sorry, I could not resist this).

Here`s a scenario that could well happen. If you think that my imagination has taken flight, who would have thought that a bunch of crazies would bring the twin towers down?

El Mushy tries to cut a deal with the Americans over access and support. There is a coup and he is killed and the new powers are a bunch of islamist generals. And what do they do immediately but attempt to send nuclear missiles the way of India. India retaliates. The Americans also retaliate. Parts of North India are affected. Pakistan and Afghanistan are flattened.

Sounds farfetched? Any thing can happen in these wierd times, right?

correction

It shoudl have read...you reap what you sow.

Just as one sees repeatedly the collapse of the WTC in slow-motion, you are metaphorically seeing the collapse of Pakistan in action.

El mushy is between the devil and the deep blue sea. If he allows the Americans what they want, he`s damned, and if he stands up to the Americans, he`s damned as well.

In their urge to hit India after the snuffing out of the Punjab experiment, your army geniuses struck upon the Afghan situation as an ideal piggyback opportunity. To use those painful cliches, what goes around comes around. You sow what you reap.

We have entered strange times and should be expected for anything to happen.

Do I as an Indian wish to see Pakistan disintegrate. To be honest, no. Our neck of the woods is infested with problems beyond solutions, as it is. Hopefully el mushy or a more sane successor will find the true cojones to stand up to the real cancer inside Pakistan and undergo surgery without anesthesia. That is the only prescription for success.

Amit

Perhaps your advice of Ends not justifying the means would be more credible if it had been applied by Indians in India.

Clearly the ``established norms of conflict``? Ghandian non-violence did not get much of a hearing at Babri, nor by the Indian Army in Kashmir (Human rights abuses, No access to international media, No access to international human rights monitors), the North East and the 10 plus liberation struggles. Protestations by Indians that they objected to the demolitions of Mosques, even though one has demolished a couple of months ago, that an independent judiciary exist in India, presumably this is a reason none of the politicians who incited the mobs have been charged or arrested, or that India is a secular polity, presumably another reason why ``Ram Raj``, RSS, VHP Bajrang Dal, shiv Sena, etc, enjoy state protection while organizations such as SIMI are threatened with banning. Where ideas such Punyabhoomi and Pitribhoomi are used ``established norms of conflict``?

Perhaps if indians actually did some of the things they think others should be doing, their advice would be credible.

Cemendtaur

A few questions:-

What is Mulla Umar`s age?

What is osama`s daughter`s age who is married to Mulla Umar?

Usama married a 13 years old girl a few months back. Is she mulla`s daughter?

Thanks

Pretty sick for a country that claims to be leader of muslim world to be counted with Sudan, Afghanistan, Yemen, and Algeria.

Wake up. Dont just hate me.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28094-2001Sep13.html

``And then how much control do the Taliban have over Osama BL? Are they militarily capable of catching Osama BL and handing him over to the US``

The Taliban has claimed for long that the honoured guest is actually under house arrest and therefore unable to do any harm to the US. So, it should be a snap for them to lay their hands on OBL and hand him over to the US (if they decide to do so).

``Will the ensuing unrest make things quiet in the Indian-held Kashmir, making India the ultimate beneficiary of the situation...``

Aha, here comes your real concern. You do not care for the Kashmiris, only that things should not go ``quiet`` there, even if it means people dying on both sides.

One thing is clear - if Pakistan plays a role in handing over OBL to the Americans, it will receive a `bumboo` from its own jihadis, the palestinians and everyone else. Should it not play its part, it will receive a royal bumboo from the US. Your best hope is that OBL is not involved in the US attacks.

Chowkis

I’ve just looked at the CNN website, and they have an article there which seems to say that while Musharraf runs the Govt and is quite open to supporting the US in its search for OBL (and perhaps in clipping the Taleban’s wings in terms of curtailing its influence) he is not in control of the ISI, which is what sets Pakistan’s policy towards Afghanistan. URL

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/09/13/pakistan.us.bush/

Of course I have MORE questions. Anybody’s attempt to enlighten me would be appreciated:

Pakistanis, what is your opinion of this view? Accurate?

Is it realistic to expect the ISI to defy the US and to impose that position on Pakistan? What kind of local resistance to cooperation with the US could there be? Will the ISI accept the change gracefully? With what reservations?

From an outsider’s perspective, it seems that Taleban ruled Afghanistan is a source of instability to all the countries around it (with varying levels of assent or opposition from different power blocs in these countries) and that those blocs in Pakistan which oppose Taleban dominance in the region might well use support from an external power (the US) to gain dominance within the country. Is this so? If so, what form is the internal struggle likely to take? Who is likely to win? What compromises will they make?

Fellow heeng-smelling (!) Indians: How will this affect Pakistan’s relationship with India? Which groups in India will become more dominant as a consequence of US engagement in the area, and which will lose power? How will that change in dominance be played out, and what forms will any internal struggles take? (I realise that since India is one country largely removed from ground zero in this case, the changes are likely to be less immediately violent, but will they be in their own way as profound? What about Kashmir which has been shaping up as the next Afghanistan?)

Re: Islam - is what has happened and its aftermath likely to change which interpretations and understandings of Islam dominate and define the way the religion is practiced in the subcontinent? Till now fundamentalists have seemed to be dominant – largely because of the funding and support they have been receiving directly or indirectly from externals. (This is all perception – I could be wrong – feel free to correct me.) Will fundamentalist Islam continue to dominate, and in fact become more kattar? Or will other interpetations become more dominant – again, if only because of support from externals? Is there any chance of this being accepted by the populace? Will there be a battle for hearts and minds, or will there just be a battle for territory? Will Rationalists be able to reclaim Islam on the subcontinent? How will other communities see Islam (esp in India) and how will that affect the outcome?

My head is spinning now. Everyone please take care over the weekend - especially those of you in the US. An old Arab lady was harrassed here in Sydney yesterday, and I fear it is much much worse over there.

Khuda Hafiz to ALL of you

Zafar

Pakistan armed forces on highest alert!

Re:SameerJB#1

Sameer, there is one other thing that Pakistan and the entire muslim world can do - strongly condemn the use of suicide attacks anywhere in the world. I thought suicide is forbidden in Islam. Yet, we see that in Palestine, Kashmir and now in US, there is a strong tendency to adopt suicide as a means to fight jihad, in order to maximize the damage inflicted. If people have grievances, the best option to fight is to use non-violent techniques as pioneered by Gandhi. If you must use violence, at least follow the established norms of conflict. People should realize that ends do not justify the means.

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Another Thought!

Ideals Are Terrorists` Most Deadly Weapons

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34301,00.html

[And will the arraignment of Osama BL be the end of the story? Will the world become a slightly more peaceful place after that? Or, will many more Osama BLs be created after such an apprehension?]

Whenever any criminal is caught, that question is asked. When this murderer is caught the punishment to him and his supporters should be so harsh that future murderers like him crap in their pants thinking of it. That will reduce such future murderers.

If this murderers is not caught, every Pakistani Jihadi will consider himself osama. They already put his pictures in their homes.

Pakistan can do something to save the doomsday scenario for people from Morocco to Indonesia. All Pakistan has to do is to be rational. It is almost suicidal in this situation with economy declining, law, order situation deteriorating and no light at the end of the tunnel for Kashmir policy, to stand by the Talibans. Dump them, dump them, dump them...................., to save Pakistan from further falling into abyss. All those powerful generals who like to keep supporting Taliban must be dismissed.

Ist thing Pakistan must do is to strangle Afghanistan, particularly cutting off trucking and gasoline supply. The end result will be better for everybody, including people of Afghanistan. Switch loyalties to northern alliance in Afghanistan and help bring the downfall of Taliban.