Black Tuesday: The View From Islamabad

AnNy, SemiPreciousMe:

Enid Blyton was the greates. I started off with Noddy, graduated to Mallory Towers, St Clare`s, and of course, The Famous Five and The Secret Seven. My absoulute favourite used to be the Five Find Outers and Dog. Dunno if you guys ever read them.

In fact, my last trip to England, I made it a point to go to Cornwall, just coz of the beautiful descriptions in Enid Blyton`s books. Would highly recommend that you go down to Spenzance, in Cornwall if you get a chance, and too by train.

Id

Your description of buying booze in a pichware wali gali in Pakistan is eerily similar to buying pot in the galis of New Delhi. The cop`s attitude is the same too.

BTW, it`s actually allowed for foriegn non Muslim nationals to drink in Pakistan. RSaxena can enjoy his beer in the lobby of the Pearl Continental, provided he can present his passport. The Murri Brewery is owned by the Bhandara family. It`s supposed to be similar to the Golden Eagle beer from Solan, India.

nameless #477,

Allow me to say something here.

Yes there isn`t one factor for a sudden surge in intolerance, but as it is, intolerance is latent in most cultures and religions even during peaceful times.

In case of Islam, I believe it reached its peak of tolerant culture during the 13th/14th century, specifically in Baghdad. With various philosophers, not only learning from other regions/ cultures, but also adding their insight into it further gave a new dynamic form to sciences, arts and mathematics. The zeitgist of the arab world was one of looking forward and progress in future. But due to some strange reason suddenly acquiring of new knowldege was forbidden (I do not remember the name of this person living in Baghdad possibly in 1492). The mullahs opposed to new ideas dcreed that all that can be known is contained in the ``book`` and as such fresh ideas never came out of the Islamic world again. The moderates in Muslim world, surprisingly never ever showed a streak of revolt against their hardline mullahs or Islamic governments. Compare that to the overthrow of manrchies in France, britain etc., where people also revolted against this nexus between rulers and priests. The rsult of all that is the birth of secular democracies in the western world. People in west, learnt the hard way, that religion and governance in the hands of few is dangerous and oppressive. Similar evolution can be seen in India too, where after independence, Princes, landlords and privileges due to high castes have been totally abolished, there by allowing people to decide for themselves the good or bad about, religion, governance and other issues. The priests in the west and holy men in India, China or other far eastern countries, have been delinked with both political power and individual beliefs.

Given the fact the the three Abrahamic religions are evagelical (with the exception of Judaism), and consider only their path as the true path, the delinking of religion and politics is commendable in the western world. For muslims to decide their own destiny, it would require them to speak up against the mullahs, who control the destiny of islamic world.

Most of the non-islamic world has renounced the older system of beliefs, laws and dogmas, to move forward, in the process,even challenging there holy books. How many examples of muslims come to your mind, who have opposed beliefs (publicly) from the

book,if they are not suitable for the modern times. For e.g Government of India has made bias in selection processes due to a person`s caste illegal. The same concept is legalized in the Manu smriti.

To sum up, I believe Muslims have to consider there individuality higher then the words of mullahs, and decide for themselves in all matters, including spiritualism. I believe that will be the beginning of a more proseprous muslim society.

Sorry for the long post.

Adios

semiprecious me

thank you, sweetie! It would be nice if we could all actually talk/post each other in a more comprehensive system/manner...

Btw, I just realized I have not heard from Neptune in a while...a little worried...

regards

semipreciousme:

semipreciousme:

``c’mon anNy…..us pakistanis are more magnanimous then that…let’s start by putting zafar on the list and then…..um….and….um….wait, it’ll come to me: )``

*sigh * ... ive tau given up trying behen...eklavya, zafar, vereesh, aicha, satyavadi, sigalph, sometimes mr.gowy, dostmittar, shammi, soyasauce and concerned are the only nice indians iv come up with...its just not happening

Stuka,

St. George`s rocks! Plus, what a view you must have...

semipreciousme:

``….poor amelia jane….and to think you and i have problems….”

hehe...ure right..no problems...i mean, its not like you and i have to steal milk from mr.noddy and then try to turn our black gollywogish selves into thin air..and we also dont get caught in tree`s on windy afternoons :)

``.for the longest time i begged my parents to send me to st.clare’s: )…``

i think you and i are going to be great pals gurl...ohhhh that book...i fantasized about having midnight feasts in a dormitory with a bunch of other girls for the longest time..i absolutely hated not having a sister then...all those goodies and sneaking around had me up for nights reading away...were u as amused by the mad french teacher with the bun? and oye...did u read the flying chair? i dont think any book on this earth could be as great...i red it some 500 time....and the magic faraway tree..moonface? all those potions man...

you know, i think enid blyton was an exceptionally gifted writer..i mean harry potters fun too but rowling isnt able to weave the kind of imagery that enid blytons books had..i could imagine every single scene from popping out of the clouds into a land where people could be changed from midgets into giants with but a potion...potters good but its just not in that league..or maybe iv grown up and arent as imaginative...somehow this just doesnt hold as much charm as those old worn out enid blytons do...what do you read abhi? have u by any chance read rita mae brown? i came across one torn tattered book of hers at itwaar bazaar and am hooked...looked her up on the net and she`s this hi-fi lesbian writer who apparently had an affair with martina navralotdontknowhowtospellhername...incredibly funny (..the kind that has you laughing out aloud in glee) and thought provoking and sad at the same time...cant find any more of her books and amazon is so bloody expensive..:(

``ps hows your cat``

mrs. phool is muchhh better..thanks for asking :0)

zahra :

For one of the polls in you post, it was mentioed that 80% of americans want a strict immigration policy with respect to muslims, and 53% wanted tighter surveillance/bound on muslims within america.

Earlier you had mentioned in a post that not all americans are the same, and some are more hateful then others. I agree with that, but 53% seems like quite a large number, unless the poll is highly flawed (which it could be.. knowing american media .. i am quite sceptical.. :)).

How would you convince me that America is not the wrong place for me to come to (it being your country) specially after looking at the events that followed the WTC attacks. Where some of these ignorant people have gone as far as bunching all the brownies together (and again .. for each smart american, there are 9 dumb ones... just a predication :)).

RSaxena :

Let me enlighten you about alcohol and pakistan. We host murree brewery, not the best but will do as a cheap substitute for heineken. But if its quality you are looking for, we have the arabian counrty club, an hour away from karachi, in the middle of the desert where someone in his obscured mind decided to develop a golf course. And ofcourse they have a bar, and fortunately it delivers heineken, tons of other desi type liqours (meaning scotch).

But if you are looking for something more low key, you only need to go to one of the liqour shops in galee ke pitchware, i.e. behind the galee. Yes, you will be harassed by the police, but nothing that a bottle of murree wont appease.

So dont worry, if you dont tell them you are an Indian, I wont either.

RE: semiconfusedme

``pakistanis don’t bite…..or bark…..i promise….(contrary to what you may think after reading the pakistani posters on chowk…..i mean if I was to base my desire to visit india on the indian posters here……)``

I have enough Pakistani friends to know that (no, I`m not lying). It is the lack of democracy, non-secular principles, and social curbs that I genuinely fear. What if some mullah decides he doesn`t like me having a beer outside somewhere in Lahore and the police agrees and takes me in? You think I`ll get a fair trial from the puppet judiciary of a military government? Silly example, but you get the point.

Why would you want someone so ``anti-Pakistani`` to visit Pakistan anyway?

Nameless #477,

the answer to all of your legitimate questions:

the pride and ego of Muslim men, it all stems down to that....they have to make themselves feel better in some way, since history failed them, economic gains failed them in this century...they can`t handle it.

in my experiences so far, the best Muslims are the converted ones...they, for the most part, follow an unadulterated form of Islam, free from societal and patriarchal influences.

Muslims (especially men) should take lessons from the Jews, who rose to the top elegantly, despite being trampled upon for centuries.

Re Zahra

This is from Salon, which is an avowedly left/liberal online forum.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/26/muslims/index.html?x

Quite damning and very very scary indeed.

Banjaara

Akash # 458

”I think your list will remain incomplete without

temporal.”

…yes, and also pm and samina

Zafar Al-Talib #: 449

“PS He isn’t really the rest either – he’s just had a rough time over the last week. Cut him a little slack.”

….what is they say about adversity bringing out your real character?

RSaxena

“There are only 3 or 4 places in the world I have no desire to ever visit – Pakistan…”

pakistanis don’t bite…..or bark…..i promise….(contrary to what you may think after reading the pakistani posters on chowk…..i mean if I was to base my desire to visit india on the indian posters here……)

anNy

Akash:

...a few Pakistanis who are widely read and respected by Indians. It is Sameer, Fuzair, Tahmed, Feroze and Bilal....

”and what am i HUH?...chopped liver?

:) i do agree..all the above do us proud..ferozk, sameer and fuzair are total smarties while bilah sahab and tahmed sahab are very good human beings....ofcourse id have to think real hard to come up with a list half the size of this one for you guys.. :-P”

…c’mon anNy…..us pakistanis are more magnanimous then that…let’s start by putting zafar on the list and then…..um….and….um….wait, it’ll come to me: )

anNy

Stuka:

Did you read Enid Blyton as a kid?

”read? i DEVOURED them...tell me, have u red harry potter? very cute..u must..not even close to the magic far away tree or amelia jane or the golliwogs but fun nevertheless”

…hey, me too….for the longest time i begged my parents to send me to st.clare’s: )…and amelia jane?….poor amelia jane….and to think you and i have problems….and to quote my sister: “harry rules!”

ps how’s your cat?