Black Tuesday: The View From Islamabad

Re: Nameless

I think and please correct me on this...

The reason behind intolerance is multi-faceted and it cannot be grouped under an umbrella term. I really cannot speak for the experience in nations other than Pakistan, but in Pakistan the situation arises from political leverages of power distributions.

Islam became a political tool under Zia and the Islamization of politics under Zia created a polariztion of the orthodoxy into an uncompromising stance. Zia used Islam as a means to reinforce his legitimacy to rule and Islam, was used as a political means to discredit the opposition since there could be no effective rebuttal against it within the premises of Pakistan`s ideological debate.

Sadly, Islam became intolerant in Pakistan because it was used as a political means to an end and yes; there were other reasons too, but the politicalization of Islam under Zia sowed the seeds, which country is reaping and will continue to reap until there is demaraction of religion and politics in Pakistan.

Ciao

Some Interesting News from CAIR`s Email Newsletter
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HEADLINES:

* ANOTHER MESSAGE OF HOPE
* EXPRESSIONS OF SUPPORT SURPRISING TO MUSLIMS (LA Times)
* 3 QUESTIONED IN ARSON INVESTIGATION INVOLVING ARAB-AMERICAN STORE OWNER
(Detroit News)
* MINNESOTA NOT IMMUNE TO BACKLASH AGAINST MUSLIMS (KARE-TV)
* CARPET STORE TORCHED IN ARSON ATTACK (Austin American-Statesman)
* US WATCHDOG WARNS OF WORK HARASSMENT AFTER ATTACKS (Reuters)
* YOUR RIGHTS AS AN EMPLOYEE (CAIR)
* SURVEY SHOWS SURPRISING SUPPORT AMONG AMERICANS FOR TIGHTENED U.S.
IMMIGRATION LAWS GOVERNING MUSLIMS
* CNN STATEMENT ABOUT FALSE CLAIM IT USED OLD VIDEO
* REP. MCKINNEY: ``AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD SEE THE EVIDENCE TOO``
* UNVEILING IGNORANCE: IN SOLIDARITY WITH AMERICAN WOMEN
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ANOTHER MESSAGE OF HOPE
(An unedited e-mail received by CAIR from a Muslim woman in Washington State.)

I was afraid to go to the mosque today. For the first time since I became a Muslim a year ago, I was afraid to wear my head covering. I prayed last night that God would take the fear out of my heart. I weent to the [mosque] despite m nerves.

I was so surprised when I got there, to see the entire front of my mosque arranged with bouquets of flowers, flags, cards. The neighbors and other
friendly residents standing out front greeting everyone as we arrived with words of encouragement and kindness.

It brought tears to my eyes, and made me ashamed of my fear, for I had assumed that everyone was afraid or hated us (Muslims) because of the WTC
tragedy. These people truly cared about us, they wanted to know us (Muslims), they wanted to show us that they are out there for us. This community of Seattle, showed it`s true colors today, and it was a good thing.

In the face of such devastating tragedy for us all, there is a light of hope for our future together. The good people of Seattle, that took the time to show their friendship today brightened that light so much more. May Allah show us all many more blessings.

Thank you people of Seattle.

SEND SIMILAR MESSAGES OF HOPE TO: cair@cair-net.org

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EXPRESSIONS OF SUPPORT SURPRISING TO MUSLIMS
Public displays of compassion, kindness come as a shock to many Middle Easterners, who had been braced for a widespread backlash.
By SOLOMON MOORE, Los Angeles Times, 9/26/2001
http://www.latimes.com/la-092601kind.story

It was a white-hot e-mail, still echoing with thunderous keystrokes: ``Go back to your beautiful land of sand and pig dirt, and take your HATE with you!``

Culver City-based IslamiCity.com, a popular Islamic Web site, was an easy target after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. But Mohammed Abdul Aleem, the site`s chief executive, thought the insults had more to do with ignorance than anger, so he replied with a short compilation of Islamic scripture.

The next day, the writer`s anger had turned to shame: ``I want to apologize for the hate mail I sent you the other day. I was upset by all the things that happened. My brother, who works in the armed forces, lost several of his friends at the Pentagon . . . I appreciate your calm and informative response . . . and as a result have since then come to my senses.``

Reports of ethnic profiling and sporadic attacks on perceived Middle Easterners persist, but Muslims in Southern California say they have been
astounded by more numerous reports of restraint and kindness. They see it in the woman who brings roses to her Persian American colleague. They hear it in the reassurance of the auto mechanic who tells his Pakistani customer, ``It`s OK`` to be named Mohammed...
CONTACT: CAIR_SCA@cair-california.org

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3 QUESTIONED IN ARSON INVESTIGATION INVOLVING ARAB-AMERICAN STORE OWNER
Gasoline found inside, Molotov cocktail sitting outside Dollar Daze By Shawn D. Lewis, The Detroit News, 9/26/2001 http://detnews.com/2001/metro/0109/26/e06-303721.htm

DETROIT -- At least three people have been questioned in the investigation of an arson that destroyed an east-side store owned by an Arab American... Faris Ahmad, director of the Michigan chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said his group is investigating the fire.

CONTACT: cair@cairmichigan.org

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MINNESOTA NOT IMMUNE TO BACKLASH AGAINST MUSLIMS
KARE-TV, Associated Press
http://www.kare11.com/news-article.html?NEWS_ID=26182

Along with an increase in patriotism, the recent terrorist attacks also are bringing discrimination against Arab- and Muslim-Americans. In Minnesota, a Minneapolis cab driver says he was attacked by a customer he picked up
yesterday. Kamal Omar says he believes his license on the dash board led one of his fares to conclude he was Muslim.

CONTACT: cairminnesota@hotmail.com

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CARPET STORE TORCHED IN ARSON ATTACK
By Jonathan Osborne, Austin American-Statesman, 9/25/2001 www.austin360.com/auto_docs/epaper/editions/tuesday/metro_state_1.html

When Marwan ``Eddie`` Janlani opened the door to his Capital Carpet store in far Northwest Austin on Sunday morning, hot smoke dusted his face as water spilled out around his feet...

...Investigators think a flammable liquid was used to start the blaze. It caused about $150,000 in smoke and water damage to Janlani`s store, which is in a strip mall along the east frontage of U.S. 183, just north of RM 620...
CONTACT: info@cairdfw.org

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US WATCHDOG WARNS OF WORK HARASSMENT AFTER ATTACKS
Reuters, 9/25/2001

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission warned employers Tuesday to guard against a potential rise in workplace harassment following the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

``Anger at those responsible for the tragic events of Sept. 11 should not be misdirected against innocent individuals because of their religion,
ethnicity, or country of origin,`` the EEOC said in a statement.

``Employers and labor unions have a special role in guarding against unlawful workplace discrimination...``

...The EEOC, a federal government body, circulated a fact sheet to several
hundred organizations, outlining the rights of employees and explaining how
to lodge complaints.

``We just want to clarify what the laws are regarding discrimination so it`s
crystal-clear in the minds of employers and employees in the wake of this
recent situation,`` spokesman David Grinberg said in a telephone interview...

GO TO: http://www.eeoc.gov/

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YOUR RIGHTS AS AN EMPLOYEE
(From CAIR`s ``Know Your Rights`` Pocket Guide. To obtain copies of the
guide, contact publications@cair-net.org.)

Federal law makes it illegal for an employer to discriminate against an employee on the basis of religion, race, or national origin. Title VII of
the 1964 Civil Rights Act guarantees your right to:

1) Reasonable religious accommodation. The failure of an employer to reasonably accommodate your religious practices constitutes discrimination.
``Religious practices`` includes wearing a beard, hijab, prayer on the job, and going to Jumah prayer.
2) Fairness in hiring, firing, and promotions. Your employer is prohibited from considering religion when making decisions affecting your employment status.
3) A non-hostile work environment. Your employer must ensure that you are not subjected to anti-Muslim insults, harassment or unwelcome, excessive proselytizing.
4) Complain about discrimination without fear of retaliation. Federal law guarantees your right to report an act of alleged discrimination. It is
illegal for your employer to retaliate against you for your complaint.

Contact CAIR at 202-488-8787 to file a discrimination report. You may also
file on-line at http://www.cair-net.org/ireport/.

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SURVEY SHOWS SURPRISING SUPPORT AMONG AMERICANS FOR TIGHTENED U.S.IMMIGRATION LAWS GOVERNING MUSLIMS http://www.prnewswire.com
Search using the term ``Wirthlin.``

MCLEAN, Va., Sept. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- More than 8 out of 10 Americans would support restrictions on the number of Arabs or Muslims immigrating to the
U.S., according to a new survey by leading research company Wirthlin Worldwide.

83 percent of Americans said they would support a change in U.S. immigration laws in light of recent events. Even more extreme, 58% of
respondents agreed that there should be ``tighter controls on all Muslims -- including Muslims living in the United States -- who are traveling on airlines or trains...``

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CNN STATEMENT ABOUT FALSE CLAIM IT USED OLD VIDEO
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/20/cnn.statement/index.html

There is absolutely no truth to the information that is now distributed on the Internet that CNN used 10-year-old video when showing the celebrating of some Palestinians in East Jerusalem after the terror attacks in the U.S.
The video was shot that day by a Reuters camera crew. CNN is a client of Reuters and like other clients, received the video and broadcast it.
Reuters officials have publicly made the facts clear as well.

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REP. MCKINNEY: ``AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD SEE THE EVIDENCE TOO``
http://www.house.gov/mckinney/news/pr010925.htm

(WASHINGTON, DC) ``There has been much ado about providing evidence linking Osama bin Laden to the tragedies of September 11, 2001. Secretary Powell
has said that our allies will receive irrefutable proof of the bin Laden ties to this tragic day. Before the use of force occurs, the American
people must see this proof too,`` Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) stated.

Congresswoman McKinney is the Ranking Member of the International Operations and Human Rights Subcommittee of the House International
Relations Committee, and is also a member of the House Armed Services Committee.

``We`ve lost thousands of people already, and as the Administration begins its preparations for war, every American and the families of our soldiers and victims of the hijackings deserve to know that justice for those responsible is what motivates our actions and not just convenient
scapegoating,`` McKinney continued.

``...Certainly Afghanistan won`t end up having more information about our evidence than will the American people who have suffered this tremendous
injury,`` McKinney exclaimed.

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UNVEILING IGNORANCE: IN SOLIDARITY WITH AMERICAN WOMEN

The University of Michigan School of Social Work, School of Nursing and Muslims Students Association invite you to come together in solidarity against the racist backlash of September 11th.

WHEN: 8 pm Thursday, Sept 27
WHERE: 100 HUTCHINS HALL, LAW QUAD, STATE ST
(across from MI Union)

As a result of the horrific events of September 11th, Arab, Asian and Muslim American communities suffered doubly, mourning with the rest of the
country and simultaneously becoming the targets of misplaced anger. An alarming series of hate crimes are sweeping the nation. Muslim women who
wear the hijab (the Islamic headscarf) have been particularly vulnerable to physical and verbal assault since they are readily identifiable. Many
Muslim women have been forced to remove their scarves out of fear and many others have become prisoners in their own homes, terrified to leave.

As a gesture of solidarity, American non-Muslim women are volunteering to wear the hijab for one day. Our goal is to diffuse the racist backlash
against Muslim women and to powerfully demonstrate that Islam and Americanness are not mutually exclusive. This was carried out by 300 women in Peyore, IL last week and communities across the country will be following our example. We will provide free scarves and white ribbons for those who support the cause but prefer not to wear the hijab.

On Friday, September 28th, the volunteers will wear the Islamic scarves throughout the day. There will also be a booth providing more free hijabs and white ribbons and further information. All are invited to come, listen and share.

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CAIR
Council on American-Islamic Relations
453 New Jersey Avenue, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20003
Tel: 202-488-8787
Fax: 202-488-0833
E-mail: cair@cair-net.org
URL: http://www.cair-net.org

Fairdinkum:

I`d read Romair`s earlier comments regarding the issue that you have brought - I also felt that there was some generalization. But, on second thoughts, I think he was stating his experience based on the ones he came across or dealt with. But the reality is that, nowhere on the face of earth you will find all like-minded people in one room. So, it`s the one person who has to introduce a change. Yes, he will have to take the bull by its horns - and that is what leadership demands. Hopefully, with the good judgement that one leader can have more allies who may not agree with him 100%, but may stand by him on the steps and strategies that he implements for the benefit of the country. At this time, many of the allies or adversaries within the army will have to rise above their own interests and side with Pres. Musharraf. And they must! And they should!

What is happening in Peshawar and its outskirts is deplorable! The way the media is covering the scenarios taking place in different cities, it seems Pakistan is under severe scrutiny from all angles. I would like to mention a few thoughts that came to my mind after reading NY Times as well as watching news on CNN coverage on Pakistan.

One has to remember that one person by himself is nothing in any government in Pakistan. That one person needs allies/strategic advisers and damn intelligent people who can represent his stance to the masses, to the world and to the media and implement the strategies accordingly. Watching a layman tearing Pres. Bush`s picture in six or seven pieces and then treating his effigy with highest regard, I was very disgusted. On one hand, the government of Pakistan has taken a stance, a speech was delivered to the masses; but on the other hand the miscreants within the country would go out and do things just to get a kick out of it. They are simply irresponsible ones, who want to get attention - without realizing the outcomes of their irresponsbile acts. Ironically, western media takes these actions of the civilians/common masses damn seriously. So, next day, one would find an article covering half page of NY Times regarding the internal chaos in Pakistan. That stupid man, after tearing off the picture of Pres. Bush, may have left the scene and gone home. Now, this one action created so many repercussions that those locals would never understand. This is very sad. Can anything be done about it?

....

The answer to the above will follow later.


PS: I am not covering for Romair, but like him, I see some ray of hope in the Army. I do not see anyone from any of these *stupid * parties worth running Pakistan. They need guidance and probably army should train some of the capable ones in civilian govt.(if any) We are past the stage of playing games and saying that Oh, we were running a country under democratic rule and army took over.

Eklavya

Such crass discrimination. You can forget about getting discounts in Puerto Rico....unless...

you check this out...

http://www.goodschools.net/sgc.html

Calling Romair,

You have been asking for ``hard facts`` about dominance of religious extremists in ISI/Army...
Gen. Hamid Gul (ret.) the former head of ISI shed some light on this matter on CNN today.
From his comments it is clear that a significant number of ISI/Army officers have sympathies with religious extremists inside Pakistan and elsewhere.

Perhaps you are out of touch with the reality in Pakistan...being away from home for so long and all...

Hamid Gul openly opposed the policies of Mr. Musharraf and hinted that if pushed beyond a certain point, Pakistan Army will over throw Gen. Musharraf`s regime.... He said, ``I am aware of the mindset of Army officers.``

Kind regards,
fairdinkum

Ferozk, thanks for your detailed reply. I have some more queries or points etc.

One aspect which is missing from all the discussions here on chowk is why is it that in the last two decades there has been an increase in intolerance amongst muslims for muslims? Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, have been extremely tolerant, amongst themselves as well as with others. This has developed over hundreds of years. Yes there have been the occasional blood baths, but it does not explain the virulency of the current trends. Where does this virulency come from? What is the basis for this sudden spurt in the ultra-extra-puritanical streak? Why are intelligent muslims silent? Why is it that muslims from pakistan, bangladesh, india when they come to the west, and attend mosques are suddenly portrayed as lesser muslims (though they follow the quran) than certain otehrs and the people who run these mosques?

The next point I would like to make or ask is this. There is a preamble here. Long time back in History, the Rulers from delhi (sultanate or the mughals) had to seek permission from the Caliph, and later on only homage by way of some dues were paid. Even this later on was discontinued. (you can check this out by reading any history book). TOday, the modern day rulers in Pakistan have to pay homage to the modern day caliphs. (just see where all the good leaders of pakistan have visited first after they have taken power, and visited it in times of problems). WHo are these caliphs? And what do they have that holds the pakistani establishement by the proverbials? (this is in a sense a follow up to my questions and your answers).

The third point is, the Hanafi traditions in Afghanistan were pretty tolerant. They the afghanis, staunch muslims, were men who were tolerant. But get on their wrong side and you were dead meat. And ferocius fighters to the last.

How is it that these people suddenly took up a very extreme form of Islam? What has driven them to do it? Who is driving them to do it? For surely, it cannot have been the russians (or soviets), it cannot have been a dislike for the infedels - this surge of ultr-extreme-islam is a recent development in Afghanistan and indeed Pakistan.

What is your take on these questions? Anyone on the board willing to go the extra mile and go beyond the usual stuf that is doled out.

Re: TAhmed

``But at least I dont spend this time trying to prove how one of the two nationalities represented among chowk posters are beneath contempt.``

Neither do I, but you aren`t perceptive enough to realize that. I focus on individuals, most of whom happen to be Pakistani (and the Govt of Pakistan).

``So maybe I will take my own advice and ignore people like you on chowk.``

Please, do us both a favor.

Re: Zafar

``Agle janam men thumhari paidaish Shanghai me hogi. Thum roz nashte ke liye birds nest soup men kacha anda mila ke khaoge, garam karne ke bina…``

Don`t forget rancid fish porridge with the head thrown in.

``Hay have fun! (Isn’t it illegal, but?)``

One advantage of holding on to our Indian passports is that it is not illegal for us to visit Cuba. There are no direct flights from the US - you have to go to Canada, etc. and fly from there.

re: Zafar Al-Talib # 469

``PS Please don’t type at me in caps, I am very sensitive.``

You sensitive man! lol...

P.S. Here`s a picture that may interest you:

http://www.goodschools.net/wss.html

anNy,

The reason our list isn`t that long is that a great many of us don`t eat beef. That leaves some lucky people like zafar bhai to carry the weight for all of us. :)

RSaxena #460 I do indeed spend more time on chowk than I should and am on my way to get my brain checked. But at least I dont spend this time trying to prove how one of the two nationalities represented among chowk posters are beneath contempt. I do spend some time getting back on individuals like you and jay and urstruly who seem to have the hate gene in every second chromosome in your bodies. And generally I kick myself for wasting my time doing even that. So maybe I will take my own advice and ignore people like you on chowk. There are enough intelligent and decent people on chowk to make it worth my while to spend time here though. And maybe occassionally folks like you will hear from me anyway when I feel like wasting time on you.

Akash # 458

I think your list will remain incomplete without

temporal.

Regards.

Akash #447:

``With this movie I guess Aamir is the new numero uno of Bollywood leaving Shahrukh and that kid Hrithik far behind.``

Aamir Khan was always NUMBER ONE!!! He is the Tom Hanks of Hindi cinema.

Long Live Aamir Khan!!!

Reply Scout # 463

Scout

My point is that it has been an awful time for many people (and we DON`T know what has or has not happened in their lives), and a lot of initial responses may have been made (I`m not speaking for anybody here) which were not balanced or well thought out.

Unfortunately, here on Chowk, a comment once made seems to be perceived as a position to be defended come what may - both by people who make them and by people who read them.

I admit that have been disappointed by some people`s reactions (again, I may not agree with you on who is or is not disappointing) - I`ve done my best not to be disappointed by my own - and I haven`t always succeeded.

The whole thing is sad - so many people dead, more death likely, war on the subcontinent - and our first response is to verbally tear at each other on Chowk - not to listen, not to try and understand why other people react in ways we find appalling, not to try and make us/them a we.

Scout - this isn`t entirely a speech aimed at you - just thoughts which came to my mind after I started replying to your post. No offence meant to you. I will stop before I irritate anybody further.

:-(

Zafar

Reply anNy # 452

“...do you see me being mean to people left right and centre... im still not being mean to you..AM I?”

No, no, of course you aren’t, I didn’t mean to suggest such a remote possibility.

Zafar

PS Please don’t type at me in caps, I am very sensitive.

Reply RSaxena # 454

“Oh my, the thought makes me panic. There are only 3 or 4 places in the world I have no desire to ever visit -- Pakistan, China, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan. (I hear about how China treats its own citizens residing abroad when they visit China and it disgusts me.)”

Agle janam men thumhari paidaish Shanghai me hogi. Thum roz nashte ke liye birds nest soup men kacha anda mila ke khaoge, garam karne ke bina…

“But I am planning to go to Cuba. The US needs to cut ole Fidel some slack. He`s not the nicest guy around but he`s a lot better than some of the other ba$tards the US does business with.”

Hay have fun! (Isn’t it illegal, but?) And do the music scene if you can – I’ve heard it is wonderful.

The Great Girgit is fuming now.

Zafar,

on second thought, go ahead and defend the moron in question all you want. the guiltier the party, the more defense he/she needs.

but just a warning, he might turn against you at the blink of an eye...i don`t call him a chameleon for nothing.