Caught In Between

suxena #397, ``This is sorta like scout whining about the US not helping every Muslim problem area in the world.``

First of all don`t drag my name into your discussions. Second of all, don`t twist my words to make your points. Thirdly, if the US can help Kuwait and Israel with it`s problems, why can`t it help Kashmiris? And the Kashmiris have a legitimate problem on their hands.

Re: id

Dear id,

Read the story about Liaqat Ali in the following CNN story, and reach your own conclusions:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/09/19/inv.afghanistan.camp/

Samina,

Those were really generous words. Thank you for asking. Physically, I am in fabulous shape. I have even returned to the gym! Intellectually, like everyone else, I too am trying to deciper the sense behind the senselessness of this world.

Regards.

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Dear Hotelier,

I checked out the url. Awesome! Someday I will take you up on your word.

You lucky man! That is the kind of job to have.

Thanks for the offer.

Best wishes.

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Hello everyone,

Any of you gurus know anything about saam daam dand bhed - the four (or five?) modes of influence mentioned in the Indian tradition?

Thanks in advance.

EK

India

Hindu fanaticism and another example of Godly protection

``Almost 60,000 uniformed men and boys travelled to Agra, northern India, to listen to their leader, K.S. Sudarshan, and celebrate the 75th anniversary of the nationalistic and fanatic Hindu RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh - National Volunteers Association),`` reported Celia W. Dugger in the New York Times on 16th October 2000. Minister of the Interior Lal Krishna Advani was among them. ``Christians and Moslems must be converted back into the lap of Hinduism,`` says Sudarshan, calling on Christians to break their links with ``foreign-financed and Western-dominated churches`` and found a ``Church of India``. The RSS continues in its attempts to change India`s secular Constitution and `purify India from foreign contamination`. Over half a million men and boys attend the RSS`s daily meetings in 45,000 local chapters, which are ``recruitment centres with a programme somewhere between Scouts and Hindu Crusaders``, according to reports.

With that background, the following report, representative of many which we receive from India, has a particular significance:

Protected from electric shocks

``Four Indian missionaries were praying in their apartment in Orissa, when 15 anti-Christian youths suddenly broke into the room, attacking them with knives, iron bars and bamboo staffs. They were bound hand and foot, then beaten. Three of them were then dragged out and dumped on the ground. Simon, the only one remaining in the room, knew what was coming, and prepared himself to die as a martyr. The fanatic youths planned to torture and kill him with electric shocks, but, by God`s grace, Simon did not feel a thing. The youths then attempted to torture Laru, one of the other missionaries, in the same way, but he also felt nothing. Frustrated, the youths dismantled the circuits, because they could not harm the Christians. God saved the missionaries` lives were saved by performing a miracle,`` writes mission agency Gospel for Asia.

We will not leave until a church has been planted!

The four missionaries were dragged naked through the village streets. They were threatened, and told that they would be killed if they did not recant Christ. They answered ``We are already half dead, and you have tortured us. We are ready to die, but we will never deny Jesus, the Lord who loves us.`` Finally, they were told, ``Leave this village within the hour, or you will be killed and buried here.`` The four left the village, but returned as soon as they had regained their strength. When asked why they did not go to another village to evangelise, they answered ``We have been beaten and wounded here. We will not leave until we see a church of people committed to following Jesus. Whatever may come, we are prepared.`` Within a short time, they had led 14 people to Jesus.

Source: Gospel for Asia, 1800 Golden Trail Ct., Carrollton TX 75010, USA. e-mail: info@gfa.org

http://www.jesus.org.uk/dawn/2000/dawn0043.html#India

sadna # 411

``Urdu was discriminated against for many years soon after Independence, thats my understanding, but I believe its making a comeback now due to official recognition and due to general interest in cultural activities.``

The official recognition has been at state level in UP and Bihar only.Started by Mulayam Singh Yadav in UP more for garnering muslim votes than the love of the language,followed by Laloo Prasad

Yadav in Bihar for more or less the same reasons.

Whatever the reasons,it is a positive step.

Regards.

Scout # 376

Please do not interfere in the internal affairs of

relatives.She is half Indian:)))

SaminaShah

``I think Zafar brought up an excellent point when he wrote that Pakistan allowed, if not facilliated, the Taliban in Afghanistan and their ridiculous chaos. Isn`t it a bit arrogant to assume all Kashmiris want what Pakistan wants?``

Yes, Samina Pakistan did create and nurture the Taliban, as did America; and Pakistan will ensure that a new Taliban leadership will also have a role to play after the coming conflagration. Chaos is exactly what the Taliban were created to fight and they did a great job until their policies with regard to women and Pakistani economic interests. Their policies were/are generally obscuritanist and their policies with regard to women and the response that engendered among American women, was the primary reason of their estrangment from America. (look into this and you will find the role of Allbright and Senator Clinton, in response to pressure from American women`s organizations, will be an eye opener)

Is it arrogant that all Kashmiris want Pakistan? This after 54 years of captivity??? Would it be arrogant to say that a majority want Pakistan? or is that also, arrogant? Perhaps capitivity in India is not arrogant?

I want to convey a measure of indignation at your suggestion of arrogance. Repeated calls for a negotiated settlement fall on deaf ears in India, followed by charges of arrogance. The non-recognition of captive Kashmir as disputed territory is not arrogant? The denial of UN calls of a plebecite in Kashmir is not arrogance. The systematic denial of an organized voice to those seeking freedom from captivity Kashmir is not arrogant. The exclusive reliance on state terrorism as means to crush the aspirations of the captive Kashmiri is not arrogance. Really, Indians surpass the Israeli in chutzpah.

Pakistani public support for Kashmiri Jihad will disappear the moment Indians agree that captive Kashmir is disputed territory and that India desires, exclusively, a negotiated settlement to this dispute. Thinking Indians should be mindful that perhaps mining of 11 million Kashmiris is not at stake and that the real concern should the fact that there are bigger numbers of persons who are resentful and increasingly conscious of their increasingly limited future in India.

Re:Reply #: 411

sadna,

My apologies about my remarks about a great language (Urdu). I was taken in by Ms Sarwari`s pretenses of superiority just because she spoke the language. Reminds one of how some brahmins of the past assumed superiority just because they knew sanskrit. I agree with your remarks about resurgence of Urdu in India. As Josh Malhabadi remarked, even if Urdu did not survive in Pakistan, it will survive in India because of its strong roots.

Regards,

Sridhar

Ms. Sarwari/Sigalph

If things continue the way they are for a few more years, Inshallah Indian Muslims will reclaim their position as the most culturally advanced Muslim community anywhere in the world. Already, the best musicians, music directors, authors, actors, amongst Muslims anywhere in the world, are from India.

Asfand #364

Are all California based Pakis are of same IQ level?

Answers to your questions --

``Namaskar``

Which madarsaa told you that Namaste is a hindu greeting? It is a popular greeting in other countries too such as Indonesia, Thailand and Sri Lanka.

4) “trimurti” is stamped on Indian passport and on Indian currency

It is not trimurti. It is based on sculpture of four lions on the top of Ashok Pillar. If you want to associate any religious meaning to it, than it has to be assiciated with Buddhism.

5) “chakkr” the wheel is stamped on Indian Flag

As Sigalph pointed out, Chakr was based on spinning wheel.

Ref RShridhar:

``Watch the movie ``Mehfooz`` (written by Anita Desai, directed by Ismail Merchant)``

I think you mean ``Muhafiz``, where Shashi Kapoor plays a obese urdu ``shair`` in Bhopal.

re akash

`Are you sure you were not an Indian( and hence 82% Hindu) in your previous janm:-). `

I was. But the 18 % got the better of me ever since I tasted the delight of beef curry, kebabs, and korma :)

re aisha quoting dalit times

``A great martyr who died for India like Tippu Sultan is unknown to youngsters, whereas the name of Tantia Tope, who fought not for India but for his pension, and Jhansi Laxmi Bai, who fought for her adopted son`s heirship to the throne, is brought on the lips of every Indian. ``

That is sheer second rate nonsense of the third class. My first introduction(as that of many of my contemporaries) to the martyred Tipu Sultan was through Indian comics(that`s when I was barely in elementary school) imported from Bombay(you Hindus, you named it Mumbai, tsk, tsk!). In West Bengal, as I am sure in some other states as well, history text books provide detailed, true, and sympathetic account of my own very Muslim ancestor(s) who perished fighting Lord Clive at Plassey. (As an aside, history well recalls that in that tragic battle the last three loyalist commanders left resisting were, respectively, Hindu, Catholic, and Muslim).

As for the Maharani of Jhansi, only those utterly ignorant of history can call her something other than a patriot-martyr. Of course she was fighting for her son`s inheritance because under existent HEIC rules, if a principality had an heir not recognised by the Company Diwan(later Resident), the said principality automatically reverted to the Company(later the Crown). Fighting for her son was actually the same as fighting for her state and her people.

Tantia Tope was a man of whom the less said the better. HE changed side as many times as he changed his beliefs. His weakness, cowardice, and, some say, treachery, cost the aforementioned Maharani her state and life. No argument there about the dubious nature of the fellow.

Thanks to the Jamaat and its counterpart the RSS,some folks just don`t get it. India`s history is India`s history, not the history of Muslims and Hindus going about their merry ways.

Re: #401

``But again, as a few figures here suggest that over 70,000 kashmiris have been killed. How does india reply to this? In the 1971 war their official stand towards Pakistan was that the west wing was ``oppressing`` the people of east pakistan. But that was just the official statemtn. Unofficially it was quite benefical to india to weaken Pakistan. In anycase I am going of in tangents. What I meant to say is that if they really care about the oppression in east pakistan then what about kashmir.``

id,

Sorry to butt into your argument with the others. Just wanted to congratulate you on the thickness of your skin.

3 million - is the official figure - for the number of bengalis butchered by the west pakistan army.

Can you please repeat that line about ``oppressing`` the people of east pakistan.

(And also, remember to put it within double quotes, as you did).

best regards,

Hey Sarwari, How`s Heidi Fliess doing??? Give her my regards..

Stuka

Re: Akash

``Are you sure you were not an Indian( and hence 82% Hindu) in your previous janm:-).``

Of course he is a closet Indian ;) One of these days Serlock Hamdani is going to expose him.