Caught In Between

Sarwari, it`s not too late to go to Kashmir to ``kill with your bare hands``...join your fellow retards below as they go at it.

This is great news for India. Jehadis turn against each other.

``Islamic Front warns Hurriyat leadership

The Jammu and Kashmir Islamic Front has threatened to punish the Hurriyat leadership for what it termed as ``attempts to weaken the ongoing militant movement`` in the state.

``The Islamic Front warns the Hurriyat, especially its chairman Prof Abdul Gani Bhat, to get ready for paying a heavy price for opposing Friday`s shutdown in Kashmir,`` a statement released by JKIF said.

The statement appeared in a local English daily.

Threatening Bhat with death, the statement said the Hurriyat`s opposition to the bandh had caused ``damage to the Kashmir cause.``

Friday`s bandh call given by three militant groups was a show of solidarity with Afghanistan, which is facing an imminent attack by the US and its allies.

The strike coincided with a bandh call given by religious groups in Pakistan to protest against their government`s support to America`s campaign against Afghanistan, which is suspected to be hiding terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect in last week`s terrorist strikes in New York and Washington``

rsridhar #405
The other day I was reading a `The Hindu` article on recommendations for improving the reach of primary education in Maharashtra. One of these recommendations was to train teachers in the local languages or dialects(often tribal in origin) because the children in many districts in Maharashtra didnot understand Marathi! I have heard about this issue of school teaching and often textbooks in local dialects even in a supposedly-homogenous Hindi-belt state of Madhya Pradesh. Makes one realise what a huge country India really is :).

Re Urdu, as sigalph235 says its an Indian language, one of 14 official and one of hundreds of all languages and dialects of the subcontinent. Urdu is official language in a number of Indian states too. Hey my grandfather used to do all this business and financial dealings in Urdu. Urdu was discriminated against for many years soon after Independence, thats my understanding, but I believe its making a comeback now due to official recognition and due to general interest in cultural activities. I consider every language or dialect is a vehicle of a unique cultures, milieu(sp?) and often even history. So I don`t think it makes sense to run down any language or dialect in the world, or in India or Pakistan.

To do so and to make ``better and worse`` judgements about languages and cultures seems to be the trend in official Pakistani policy perhaps reflected in their educational system,also, but its just not the Indian way of looking at things at all.

It only reveals the weak foundations of Ms Sarwari`s sense of identity and her narrow outlook on the world that she feels justified to berate others for not speaking the language she herself is familiar with. It corroborates nicely with my pet theory of some Pakistanis being educated or encouraged to think of themselves as dispossessed former rulers where Indians are concerned:).

Sigalph#377,379

You have presented the case of India more succintly and strongly than most of the Indians on this board who are too angry to be articulate.

Are you sure you were not an Indian( and hence 82% Hindu) in your previous janm:-). Most of the Indians including me can learn a great deal from you about keeping cool when the opponents start hitting below the belt.

Thanx

Re:Reply #: 385

sarwari

Since when were the muslims rulers enlightened. Keep writing. May be i will get it one day.

Sridhar

Re:Reply #: 368

sarwari

No one cares what others think of India. We do not have to justify anything that we do in our self interest (of the nation). That is the beauty of democracy. There is a consensus to fight terrorism in Kashmir and not give in to terrorists. So, no govt. can compromise on that. Regarding release of hijackers, India has been a soft state. But then has USA not been guily of running with the hare and hunting with the hound, the recent elevation of Pak as an ally (sic)being a case in point.

Sridhar

Re:Reply #: 366

sarwari,

I have spoken at length about Indian Army`s presence in Kashmir. It is there because of terrorists (call them ``freedom fighters`` or what have you)that the Army is in that state in the first place. The atrocities committed by Army is regrettable but also inevitable. After the incidence on Sept. 11, few in the enlightened world will have any sympathies with the way these people (the jehadists)terrorise innocent civilians (threat of violence against women not using a veil being the latest),kill and maime with impunity. People are fed up of acts of violence as a way of redressing grievances.

I am surprised at your defense of Urdu. A little research will tell you that Urdu is spoken only by a minority even in Pakistan. It however has been relegated to a previliged status by officials and the media. Hindi is spoken by 40% of Indians and understood by a lot more. Be that as it may, in India Urdu is a dying language. Watch the movie ``Mehfooz`` (written by Anita Desai, directed by Ismail Merchant)to know what i mean. We in India are not shedding any tears and will give Urdu a decent burial as and when it becomes extinct. I may add that i personally like the language a lot but find people like you who feel superior just because you know the language despicable and abhorrent. People in India do not speak a good Urdu, who cares. Phew!

Sridhar

Re:Reply #: 364

Asfand,

Today, Pak is under the microscope not India. All the terrorists under scrutiny have muslim names. Many of them carry Pakistani passports. So, you already know what the policy of being a non-secular country has done to your country. Uncle Sam is twisting Pak`s arm but is making polite, diplomatic noises for public consumption. Your country is going through perhaps the toughtest times since 1971 and Mushy boy still finds time to criticise India and rake up Kashmir. What bunch of morons you have as self-proclaimed rulers.

Your knowledge of what is secularism is pathetic. Since when has saying namaste an unsecular act. And, the ``Dharma Chakra`` that you refer to (an Indian national emblem) is of buddhist origin. It is taken from the Ashoka Pillar at Sarnath. But then what does an islamic idiot like you know about Buddhism?

Sridhar

anNy,

all right you have redeemed yourself, sort of.

``say, how do you live on vegetables? dont u feel like jumping out of the window sometimes?``

See, being a vegetarian, i`m light as a feather. If i jumped out of the window i`d float. I come to chowk when i feel like flaggelating myself.

Re:Reply #: 392

MaheshG,

Ms Sarwari or her ilk (Ylh comes to mind)can say what they want about Gandhi. Only yesterday i watched a 1 hr documentary on Gandhi on the A&E. Glorious tributes were paid to this great man. Made me proud of my Indian roots.

Sridhar

Saminashah, Sadna and Sarwari:

For a while I have been asking myself the same question. If people of Pakistan are not doing well, then why do we even bother about Kashmir. When you think from your mind then the former needs to be improved, but when you think from your heart, you cannot help but think of kashmir.

Again, this is not my point of view, to support kashmir. I am caught in the middle : Can we abandon them and go on? Or should we keep hoping and trying. Maybe the military operations that have taken place since day one werent the wisest of decisions. Maybe we could have not gotten our hands dirty and appealed over and over through diplomacy.

But again, as a few figures here suggest that over 70,000 kashmiris have been killed. How does india reply to this? In the 1971 war their official stand towards Pakistan was that the west wing was ``oppressing`` the people of east pakistan. But that was just the official statemtn. Unofficially it was quite benefical to india to weaken Pakistan. In anycase I am going of in tangents. What I meant to say is that if they really care about the oppression in east pakistan then what about kashmir.

Its only been a recent phenomenon of jihadis coming in through pk to india. Before that they were alone. Since the beginning India has had an extremely bitter view of why any territory went to pakistan. It was against the philosophy of congress. They just couldnt accept independence. The whole question of independence may be debatable as jay has often mentioned in his sarcasm. But that is a philosophical debate which can go on. It should not have been adopted in indias ideology with respect to anti-pakistan sentiments. They devised every way of not giving us our rightful share. From stationary to desks/tables to money that they owed. They kept on making us suffer through the early years.

When you look at the history, it has been india since day one that has tried to disrupt the unity of pakistan. I agree that if our own political conditions were more towards nation building rather than power grabbing, we would have been better off. But that is not the only factor to where pakistan is.

Sure we can take different routes from here. But the issue of Kashmir may be something to think about. For it was a decision made against the people of that region; I dont know how india or indians can justify this.

Aisha,

I think that the Kashmiri people should be able to democratically elect leaders who will take them in the direction they want to go. Both India and Pakistan should be forced to stop their military manifestations by an international peace keeping force. Once the Kashmiri people have decided, the military force should stick around to ensure things are unpolluted for at least a few years. Pakistan and India should then GO HOME.

I think Zafar brought up an excellent point when he wrote that Pakistan allowed, if not facilliated, the Taliban in Afghanistan and their ridiculous chaos. Isn`t it a bit arrogant to assume all Kashmiris want what Pakistan wants?

regards

Plus, a open comment to Chowkies: its getting a little personal on these boards...can we step back from our keyboards and take a few deep breaths?

regards

RE: sigalph

Reading your posts to sarwari is a treat. You are brilliant! Brilliant because you smack her stupidity around but do it gently and encourage her to keep writing so you can keep smack. I must learn from you.

Re: Rat sarwari

``If that`s the premise what is unsecular about the Islaimc Republic of Pakistan ``

If you don`t see the contradiction in that sentence, may the Mujahideen terrorists you worship as god help you.

Re: Roopam

``The western policies have not been uniform. Why did U.S. repond strongly when Iraq invaded Kuwait but kept quiet when Pakistani backed Taliban attacked Afghanistan, or when China invaded Tibetand parts of India, or when Mujahideen

backed by Pakistani troops entered India in Kargil (Kashmir), or when Indian passenger

airplane was hijacked and taken to Afghanistan and a demand of Pakistani terrorists was made.

Why we sanctions imposed when India and Pakistan tested nuclear weapons but no sanctions were imposed against France, Russia or China or even U.S.``

Stop whining!!! You sound like a damn Pakistani! The US doesn`t owe anyone anything. Why should the US do something if an Indian flight is hijacked??? Because our politicians don`t have the balls to fight terror, you want US to come and do it? Why? Is the US taxpayer paying money for India`s security??

This is sorta like scout whining about the US not helping every Muslim problem area in the world. THEY DON`T OWE ANYONE ANYTHING. As an American taxpayer, I don`t want a penny of my money going to anything but protecting American interests and global disaster relief for people struck by natural disasters which are no one`s fault.

sarwari #383
``I swear I didn`t send anyone to Kashmir, promise! ``

I swear I didnot commit a brutality or murder in Kashmir promise!
But unlike you, I and other Indians take responsibility for what the state apparatus does in Kashmir, good or bad. You on the other hand wash your hands off every atrocity committed by Pakistani jihadis in Kashmir and for the continuing and unceasing atmosphere of violence, by calling them `freedom fighters` when all you want is a land grab. And you cannot even say whether Musharraf in favor of negotiated settlement to end their misery or not.

`` If I had my way when I had discovered about the brutalities and murders you commit in Kashmir I would have run away form home and gone to kill the forces with my own bare hands.``

Thats what I am asking, why did you not have your way? No guts, no principles, all hot air? Are we supposed to be impressed? I am not.

``My family works hard, I work and I work hard, I study and I study hard, and I love my country and I do what I can from out here. Unfortunately I do not have the resources to do it all, I think being in Pakistan is important for that. Also right now I am just investing in what I can to put inside my intellectual toolbox of life for latter use and construction``

Yes, you are doing all that, you have the luxury of choice and the luxury of planning your future. Take care never to offer this choice to your jihadi countrymen. No freedom-sheedom voting-shoting education-sheducation, jobs-shobs options-shoptions for them. And by the way, you redefine the word `proxy war` with a new dimension. Overseas Pakistanis waging war on India by proxy over the dead bodies of their compatriots. Very inspiring.

``I don`t deny that we face severe penetration of these fundoos into our society that was not well guarded from those who opposed it in the first place. ``

Yes, and so why do Pakistanis like you go to such lengths support the severe penetrations of these fundoos into Kashmiri society? Thats what I was asking. Perhaps you will express the appropriate regrets later(God forbid), saying its very sad.

Re FBI and training camps, its from newspapers. Read them sometime, reality is more colorful than your stale delusions.

``What has happened with Afghanistan is sad, it is evident that we recognize that. ``
The inhumanity shown by Pakistanis and their government wrt Taliban rule over Afghans in Afghanistan as well as sending its own poor people into war there is what convinces Indians that they will have nothing to do with the Pakistani worldview wrt Kashmir or anything else. Sad but true. You lost your case a long time ago and all these online regrets donot wash.

``Please don`t make me feel I have wasted far too much time on you.``

Still whining? Considering that you couldnot restrain yourself from jumping up-and-down spewing your nonsense just to cover up for your CE Musharraf`s speech, I think whether you wasted your time or not was solely your choice and YOU made it.

Hindu Fanatics (Gohwardan, Rsaxsena, harimanu - the 3 stooges), Why this anal fixation?