Implications for India

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Sridhar, Sadna and et-al:

some observations:

1. There was a newsweek article feb 19,2001

article written by martha brant and roy gutman.

on page 35,they had indicated that obl-taliban-assoc had been trying to get nuclear materials but the authors questioned whether they have the know-how to put together a bomb.

Now, in TFT current edition, 0928/100401, under

nuggets from urdu press, it is reported that

taliban invited a whole bunch of folks from Pakistan for afghani independence day in aug 2001 and this included a famous nuclear scientist from pakistan. if one puts two and two they can guess what i am implying.

2. similarly, in rawa.org they had put a whole bunch of pictures which showed afghani indepence day being celebrated in kabul or kandahar(i am not sure) and all the maulanas and mullahs from various madrassas in pakistan and various intelligence from isi were seated to watch the ``parade`. by the way, afghani independence year is 1911 and since they are much more older than than the existance of pakistan, afgans have never recognized the durand line which separates

both pak/afghanistan regardless who ruled kabul.

kabul has been claiming NWFP as its own. once you are in nwfp then next door india.

3. what happens if obl hid somewhere in nwfp in friendly taliban territory? that would be a tactitical advantage for obl since it would put US in a quandary. my guess is obl is somewhere in nwfp(similar afghan terrain).

4. i personally think india ought to join with pakistan to establish a ``union of south asia``(USA)to further economic activity in that region. this will be a win-win for everyone.

Thanks.

PS: when all said and done, when the rubber meets the road, i wonder what the proportion of student/tourist visas would be for muslim countries, including pakistan? that will be a test. one thing that popped in this tragedy is that the hijackers had so many ``aliases``. if islam allows so many aliases, then US immigration would treating this very carefully in the future.

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RE Nasah and Rsridhar

Exactly. May I add that we have an adequate supply of popcorn as we watch the drama unfold. But on a more serious note, there should be stepped up vigilance on the borders just in case this spills over.

I have to agree with Sridhar in that India should not see every global crisis vis avis Pakistan.

I reckon that el mushy might try to ratch up the violence in Kashmir to keep India on the edge, but that is a dicey proposition for him. But that said, it would be interesting just to see the reaction on the other side if the Americans do land in the land of the pure and set up a base or two there.

Ras

In the `global fight against terrorism`, India should keep silent? Pakistanis and others should keep funding jihadi activities against India from US soil using US dollars, and India should keep silent?

Whats up?

Some great advice for India from one of its best!

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/260901/detide01.asp

Ras

Re:Reply #: 119

mohajir

Indian politicians have shown that,when confronted by a global tragedy, they can only think of Pakistan. India is not ready to play a global role. I also feel it does not deserve a seat in the security council simply because it does not think global. GOI seems to be bothered about the fallout of this problem vis-a-vis Pakistan. I thought the best thing India can do is to stay out of this mess but am amused to find the politicians bemoaning the fact that they are being neglected (by USA).

Sridhar

sadna 122:

The problem is what happens when organs of the state are let loose to terrorize their own citizens.

This is a problem Kashmiri civillians, average Indian/Pakistani citizens, people of color in big cities in USA face (granted in varying degrees).

Veeresh 131

[Can you imagine, Arab houseboys and housemaids?]

La HuLa Bila Kuwat! You are insulting hobbyty and nakbandi, insulting Islam. You are part of a worldwide conspiracy to destroy Islam. I am sending a peaceful self-purifying Jehadi with a few guns to murder you.

If you want to see our peaceful self puring jehadis in purifying act, visit this newspaper run by world wide Jewish conspiracy

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/international/23NETW.html

Peace be with you while you are purified.

nasah #132
``India doesn`t have to do a thing -- except lay back, relax and watch Moohhsruff deal with his Rosemary babies``.

nasah, lets hope so. It sounds a little too good to be true though, I think India should keep fighting tooth and nail at every step:). There is apparently a list of terrorist organisations to be released tomorrow whose assets will be sought to be frozen, lets see which those are.

``I personally think the Indian government is not being aggressive enough in putting pressure on these irresponsible countries to protect its citizens from future attacks in Kashmir and other parts of India.``(Sadna)

Dear Sadna:

India doesn`t have to do a thing -- except lay back, relax and watch Moohhsruff deal with his Rosemary babies.

Implications for India?

1) Dubai & Kuala Lumpur as via media for trade and financial business now slowly being strangled and then shut down. No more planes and ships from these and 22 other countries allowed to trade major nation/s. Shades of how Beirut was ``done in`` during the `70s.

2) Diplomats from Pakistan and Afghanistan being re-settled in Amritsar. The Wagah/Attari border has become almost an open border for everybody other than us Indians and Pakistanis. Check out the ``temporary CD plate`` vehicles on both sides of our borders lately.

3) A generation of Arabs in Saudia and Kuwait will now have to work for their living. Will they come to India and Pakistan to work for us, once the dollars flow in? Can you imagine, Arab houseboys and housemaids?

4) Dubai InterNet City and Kuala Lumpur Knowledge Mile are still not getting populated. The new companies coming to India on the other hand keep growing.

5) Met a production manager from Whirlpool on the plane last night, his order book for exports of production from India has tripled. Reason? Expected high demand.

6) Spoke with a shippie batchmate on his way to UK to try to figure out how to get hold of more Indian and Pakistani seafarers for flag of convienience ships, shades of Gulf East back again? Most East European and Far East nationality seafarers not acceptable in USA and other major trading nations.

What is our future? If our governments could just listen to the economies moving, it is boom time. Bombay-Delhi route on Indian Airlines now reporting full planes, but hotels going empty. Share market crashing but liquidity of actual money sloshing about.

For anybody but the blind, this is boomtime in India and Pakistan.

Gentlemen,

Perhaps we can come up with other analogies for international relations besides the ubiquitous `female country being soiled by another country` trope? Mehrbani se?...such clever minds at work, do put some effort into it.. Its really getting annoying.

regards

kafir k khan #122
``Why is Indian government keen to give when nothing is asked from them ?``

Good question and here is my opinion.

Till Sept 11, regarding activities of Pakistani/Afghani jihadi organisations and religious parties
1. if Americans/Britishers were killed, it was terrorism
2. if Pakistanis were killed, it was strategic depth
3. if Indians were killed, it was freedom fighting and a principled stand for self-determination

The US and Pakistan were playing this triple game till Sept 11. Now some light has dawned, everyone is scrambling to save their life from the fallling masonry of collapsing contradictions.

So now a double game is being attempted by Pakistan, while we are yet to see which way US will play it.
Namely where Pakistani/Afghan jihadi organisations and support for them is concerned:
1. If Americans/Britishers/Pakistanis( some of them) are targetted, it is terrorism
2. if Indians are targetted, it is freedom fighting and in Pakistan`s national interest

Why are definations important, specially US-made ones? Well, Bush spoke of attacking terrorists and those who harbor terrorists. What does this statement mean to India?

When Delhi Red Fort was attacked by Pakistanis from the Pakistani organisation Lashkar-e-Toiba, Lashkar-e-Toiba remained freedom fighters, they didnot make the transition to terrorists in the US lexicon. Why does it matter? Well, until Lashkar-e-Toiba is designated a terrorist organisation by the US, they are still able to collect funds and do their business in the US. So as far as India is concerned, after the Delhi Red Fort was attacked, US was one of the primary countries which continued to harbor and abet those terrorists.

Could India do anything about it? No.
Can India declare war like Bush does, on those who harbor terrorists and play double games like the US and Pakistan? I donot think so.

So merely providing help and information to the US or refraining from attacking Pakistan while Pakistan(and the US) change their game from a triple one to a double one, hoping that `the truth if revealed will ultimately prevail` is a good start but its not enough.

I personally think the Indian government is not being aggressive enough in putting pressure on these irresponsible countries to protect its citizens from future attacks in Kashmir and other parts of India.

RE: kafir k khan

{{Bajpai has no ``IJJAT``. He is taking his dhoti off and telling USA - ``AAP Le Lijiye`` when USA does not want it. Advani says``Hamne offer kar diya hai, moka milte hi America Lelega. Jaswant Singh goes a step forward,``I am going to USA next week and will convince them the need of unstinted Lelo}}

Those 2 buffoons ABV and Advani may not get it, but don`t underestimate Jaswant. This is the guy who held off a barking and angry Strobe Talbott after the 1998 tests in 12 rounds of ``talks`` ... apparently now he is Strobe`s buddy. Pretty shrewd fellow.

kafir kk: you are such a funny man...all these sexual jokes about South Asian leaders...ha!ha!...thank God you chose to get your a-- out of Pakistan...ha!ha!...just do us a favor and stay out...ha!ha!...and watch it...your cab almost ran up a phone pole...ha!ha!...you are sooooooo funny my man.

Kafir

Bajpai has no balls. He is a hijra. Only an old insane man like him will talk reason with Pakistani army. With US it is the same thing. He is losing all self respect India built over 50 years.

Re: mohajir

{{By Manjeet Kripalani

How Uncle Sam Is Alienating India

New Delhi offers the U.S. its support, yet Bush turns to Pakistan. Ignoring a friend to woo its foe is no way to build an alliance}}

``Manjeet Kriplani`` should stick to selling fake gold jewelry to unsuspecting Indians and leave journalism to more capable people. India has nothing to do with this mess...what is US supposed to do with India`s bases? We don`t share a border with Afghans and we are not buddies with Taliban. India is as relevant to this as Norway.

Further, why get involved in this fight of mullahs blowing each other`s brains out with America instructing them? India has enough problems to worry about.

COMMENTARY - Business Week

By Manjeet Kripalani

How Uncle Sam Is Alienating India

New Delhi offers the U.S. its support, yet Bush turns to Pakistan. Ignoring a friend to woo its foe is no way to build an alliance

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/sep2001/nf20010920_4588.htm

In early September -- days before the terrorist strikes in New York and Washington, D.C. -- Robert Blackwill, U.S. ambassador to India, visited Bombay, India`s commercial capital. There he addressed an elite group of business leaders and journalists on the need for forging closer ties with India as an ally and partner. ``Gone are the off-putting days of Indo-U.S. relations,`` Blackwill declared. The audience cheered. The relationship, Blackwill added, should stress not just liberalized trade and support for economic reforms, but a new partnership against terrorism, as ``the international terrorist Osama bin Laden calls for a holy war against America and India in the same breath.``

With the attacks in New York and Washington, D.C., on Sept. 11, and impoverished Afghanistan`s Taliban leaders calling for a jihad against the U.S., the atmosphere on the subcontinent is now almost electric. After the attacks, India immediately offered Washington its complete cooperation -- an overture of friendship after years of friction between the two nations. Now you can almost feel Indians thinking: ``See how the Pakistanis have lent the terrorists support all these years against us, and now against you, mighty America.``

LOGICAL CHOICE. Little wonder, then, that many Indians now feel slighted that President Bush still hasn`t called India`s leaders for consultation, despite all their offers of assistance. Instead, his first overtures were to India`s perennial rival and America`s old ally, Pakistan.

For India, it was a slap in the face. It`s the old U.S. foreign policy trick -- mixing pragmatism with opportunism. Just as Indo-U.S. relations were beginning to improve, the friendship may again be in jeopardy. ``The U.S. has a good record of going with whoever suits its interests more,`` says Kanti Bajpai, professor of international affairs at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi. ``It will look at the first enemy first, even if it means supping with the devil.``

Practically, of course, the best hope of hitting the Taliban is through Pakistan. India, with its Hindu-dominated, Bharatiya Janata Party-led government, remains a fragile democracy that takes ages to reach a consensus about anything. Fact is, India, a predominantly Hindu nation, can`t contribute as much in this situation as an Islamic nation like Pakistan, especially in the Arab world. And Pakistan is ruled by a dog-loving, nattily uniformed general perceived as a moderate -- not by a bearded mullah like Atal Bihari Vajpayee, India`s shuffling, poetry-spouting, 77-year-old prime minister.

EXPENSIVE ALLY. And what a deal Musharraf is reported to have demanded of the U.S. in return for his support: a $30 billion aid and bailout package for his ravaged economy, easing of U.S. trade sanctions imposed on Pakistan in 1998, assurances that India and Israel would be excluded from Pakistani-based operations against the Taliban, and a pledge that the U.S. will seek to put an end to the unrest in Kashmir, territory that both Pakistan and India claim as sovereign territory.

There came immediate howls from New Delhi. Blackwill quickly huddled with Jaswant Singh, India`s foreign and defense minister, denying that any such deal had been struck and assuring him that Kashmir would not be used by the Americans as a bargaining chip. But many Indians had to admit that Musharraf`s negotiating ploy was clever. ``Pakistan looks good,`` says Subir Gokarn, chief economist at the National Centre for Applied Economic Research in New Delhi, who adds: ``It`s cut the feet from under India`s foreign policy.``

Just what deals have been struck between the U.S. and Pakistan remain a mystery. Musharraf will probably get a bailout package like the one the Egyptians received after their first meeting with the Israelis at Camp David in the `70s. Egypt has not looked back since -- though troubled by fundamentalist Muslim terrorists, Egypt has grown into one of the world`s most moderate Islamic states.

PAKISTAN`S POVERTY. Musharraf and Pakistan need the money badly, and India shouldn`t begrudge Pakistan a bailout. After all, a $30 million aid package could make the difference between a dangerous neighbor and one that could contribute to a growing regional prosperity. An impoverished Pakistan with a nuclear bomb -- and a history of border wars and hostility with India -- is far more dangerous to India`s security. And U.S. intervention would conceivably help counteract the effects of Muslim extremism in parts of disputed Kashmir, where extremist groups are demanding that young women wear the veil -- or have acid thrown on their faces.

But make no mistake: Many Pakistanis are worried. ``The U.S. will come and bomb and seek its retribution, but they will go away, and we will be left with the scars,`` says one Pakistani privately. The Afghans, it is feared, will then turn on Pakistan: ``They are cunning and merciless, and we are afraid.``

The U.S., in addition to updating its old alliance with Pakistan, would be wise to take a larger view of its engagement in central Asia -- and not forget India. Remember, it was Pakistan that aided and abetted the establishment of the Taliban in Afghanistan. Pakistan and India have quietly been building closer ties with China, a rival power whose interests the U.S. doesn`t always share. When the looming war is over, real bridges will still need to be built between India and the U.S. -- two democracies standing against terrorism, and for prosperity.

Kripalani is India bureau chief for BusinessWeek

Edited by Douglas Harbrecht

ANURAG TRIPATHITIMES NEWS NETWORK

YDERABAD: Computer institutes, who have either closed down or on the verge of closure are selling Post-Graduate Diplomas in Computer Applications (PGDCA) to anyone who is willing to pay.The PGDCA can be procured by paying as high as Rs 2,000 or as low as Rs 200 depending upon the negotiation skills of the prospective buyers.The prices also vary according to the reputation of the computer institutes. The fake certificates of big IT education players in the market cost more than Rs 5,000.The computer institutes are selling the certificates to cover up for the loss incurred by them after the slowdown in the IT sector. The slowdown left the institutes with no new admissions and the students enrolled are refusing to pay the remaining fee instalments.A computer institute in Secunderabad has sold as many as 100 certificates from August 22 to August 31 to the candidates who need the certificates to pad up their resume.Similarly another computer institute has given blank certificates to their staff as incentives. A blank certificate without the seal of the institute is sold for a price between Rs 50 and Rs 200. However, if a candidate needs a certificate with his name, the institute’s seal and signatures of the course coordinator and authorities, he has to pay up to Rs 1,000.Most of the candidates coming to these institutes for the certificates are those who have applied for jobs in sectors other than IT .The PGDCA certificates gives an advantage over other candidates applying for the same job.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=365270954

monasegal

I didn`t mean to upset up. I`m sorry.

hobbyty #105

Hey, can`t you recognise a compliment when its given. I was actually impresed by your earlier post.

As for baises, I may be wrong, but I believe everybody has it. Even the most liberal of all. Its very difficult to shrug it. Its like holding a soft corner for your family members despite what they are?

Don`t you think so?

Mona

Akash

Let`s leave the specifics to negotiating teams - What you and I can do is to support the notion of a negotiated settlement. The greater the support for this notion, the more likely that overt hostilities can be avoided.

kafir khan #80

….finally, someone focusing on the lighter side of things….and a big lol at # 11( so, as long as we don’t “vacate” kashmir, india won’t score centuries…..since the former isn’t plausible in the near future, i guess neither is the latter….not that it ever was ;)... and if imran ever does divorce jemima, madhuri will have stiff competition, mind you)

“10. Indian Silk Sarees in great demand in

Pakistan”

…..they always have been

B.M.-Bhartiya Mussalman,Zafar Al-Talib,Hasan(NASAH),Banjara,Naptune,Abdu Sattar2,The Model Secularist Indian muslims,Challenge the Democracy of India by Supporting OSAMA Bin Laden,Taleban & SIMI

Indian Muslims warn of backlash

From O P Verma

DH News Service

NEW DELHI, Sept 19

Urdu posters pasted this morning in a South Delhi Muslim colony warned of Muslim backlash in the country if US attacked Afghanistan to get Osama Bin Laden dead or alive. Pasted in Zakir Hussain Nagar and nearby Okhla, the posters, whose publishers are unknown, also warned of a jihad against India too if New Delhi gave full support to the US in its intended attack on Afghanistan.

The government is worried about the reaction of Muslim community which is quite sensitive to the Bin Laden issue which cropped up after the terrorist strike in New York and Washington on September 11. Like in Pakistan, some Muslim organisations are planning to start agitational programmes against Pakistan government, the Indian stand and US intentions, sources said.

Safdar Nagori, general secretary, Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) also warned of Muslim backlash in the country if the planned US attack on Afghanistan is carried out “without any solid evidence against Bin Laden”. It would be “unislamic”, he said. He criticised the terrorist strikes in US but said America is “super terrorist state”. Any attack on Afghanistan would be taken as an attack on the Muslim world, he added.

SIMI Chief Shahid Badra Falahi last week said the BJP-led NDA government wanted to enslave the Muslims with US support.

According to a report from Patna, Mr Falahi said the US has not been able to put up any concrete evidence against Osama bin Laden for attacks in New York and Washington. Without condemning the terrorsit attacks directly Mr Falahi said that the incident was a big one which had taken ‘humanity by surprise’.

Mr Falahi, who was in Patna today to participate in a function organised by SIMI, criticised Pakistan for extending support to the US and termed it un-Islamic. He urged the government of India not to act in a hurry and support the US, the report said adding that SIMI is also alleged to be a proponent of Osama bin Laden’s views.

The UP government has already apprised the Centre of SIMI activities in the state and recommended a ban on the organisation.

Yesterday the Imam of Jama Masjid Syed Ahmed Shah Bukhari said any US attack on “innocent people” of Afghanistan “will be treated as an attack on the entire Muslim world” which would result in a severe backlash. He warned the government of allowing its soil to be used by the US for strikes against Afghanistan. He was critical of India’s “unconditional” support for the planned strikes against Afghanistan.

In another development, US ambassador to India Robert Blackwell today met a Sikh gathering at Banglasahib Gurdwara and Jama Masjid Imam Syed Ahmed Shah Bukhari. While Mr Blackwell assured the Sikhs that the community would be given full protection in the US from any backlash, he made it clear that Washington action is against terrorism and not against Islam or its followers.

Though the BJP has yet to react to the Imam’s statement, the Hindu Mahasabha advised him to migrate to Afghanistan along with his associates to support Bin Laden who is responsible for terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir and killing of innocent people there. “What the Imam is saying amounts to sedition,” Vishwanath Khanna of the Sabha said in a statement.

Meanwhile, Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Farooq Abdullah has predicted intensified terrorist activities in the state if US attacks Afghanistan.

Pelosi lays into minister for comments at service

Amos Brown`s `over the top` rant at tribute

Phillip Matier, Andrew Ross Wednesday, September 19, 2001







Even in San Francisco, where political controversy is the norm, former Supervisor Amos Brown`s blistering attack on U.S. foreign policy at the memorial service for last week`s terrorist victims set a lot of people`s teeth on edge.

In a performance that had the crowd cheering at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium on Monday but left the assembled politicians stunned, Brown -- pastor of the Third Baptist Church -- set his tone early when he asked, ``America, is there anything you did to set up this climate?

``America, America,`` the reverend went on. ``What did you do -- either intentionally or unintentionally -- in the world order, in Central America, in Africa where bombs are still blasting?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *``America, what did you do in the global warming conference when you did not embrace the smaller nations?`` Brown cried. ``America, what did you do two weeks ago when I stood at the the world conference on racism, when you wouldn`t show up?

``Ohhhh -- America,`` Brown said, drawing out the words, ``what did you do?``

As the crowd cheered, Paul Holm, former partner of terrorist victim Mark Bingham, got out of his chair on stage, went over to Sen. Barbara Boxer and said, ``This was supposed to be a memorial service.``

Holm was also overheard telling Sen. Dianne Feinstein and Gov. Gray Davis that Brown`s remarks were a disgrace.

``Mark died a hero,`` Holm said of his partner, one of those on United Airlines Flight 93, the plane where passengers apparently jumped their hijackers.

Whether by coincidence or design, after speaking with Holm, both Feinstein and Davis left while Brown was speaking.

``What can you say?`` said Board of Supervisors President Tom Ammiano. ``It was largely a lefty and pro-peace crowd, and Amos was playing to the house.

``Still,`` said Ammiano, no friend to U.S. foreign policy, ``it was over the top. He could have chosen another venue or a different way of saying it.``

And while many of those on stage may have shared Ammiano`s thinking, it was Rep. Nancy Pelosi who delivered the only rebuttal of the day.

Pelosi, one of the leading liberals on the national stage, broke from her prepared remarks and said, ``With all due respect to some of the sentiments that were earlier expressed -- some of which I agree with -- make no mistake (about it) . . . the act of terrorism on Sept. 11 put those people outside the order of civilized behavior, and we will not take responsibility for that.``

Later, Pelosi went up to Holm, and fighting back tears, told him how sorry she was for what had happened.

BRIDGE UPDATE: Our friends at Caltrans called to clarify the information they gave us about those workers cleared from the Bay Bridge after last week`s terrorist attacks back East.

Yes, the FBI did fear that the bridge might be a target. But it wasn`t the safety of the workers that everyone was worried about.

``We weren`t trying to favor our workers over motorists,`` explained Caltrans spokesman Jeff Weiss. ``Bridge workers were taken off the bridge because law enforcement was concerned about terrorists posing as bridge workers. And rather than police going through the time-consuming process of checking every bridge worker to make sure they were who they were supposed to be, they were sent home.``

CALL-UP: East Bay Rep. Barbara Lee has logged upwards of 20,000 phone calls and e-mails since her stand-alone vote Friday against President Bush`s call for a war on terrorism.

``It has been a mixed bag,`` said Lee`s press secretary, Andrew Sousa. ``But the outpouring of support we`ve received from all over the country is really amazing.``

But there have been plenty of angry threats as well -- which explains why Capitol Hill police reportedly have assigned Lee round-the-clock bodyguards.

HELPING HAND: Their boss might not know it, but a dozen San Francisco firefighters couldn`t stand being on the sidelines while the big rescue operation was under way in New York.

So during the weekend, a crew -- mostly from Station House No. 1 on Howard Street -- bought themselves airline tickets and jetted across the country Monday to take part in the effort.

After a quick meal with their counterparts from Station No. 1 in New York, they were dispatched right to the scene and put to work.

``Last night, they were up until 3 a.m. digging and searching -- on top of the pile and three stories below the pile,`` said Suzanne Gregg, girlfriend of one of the firefighters yesterday.

Meanwhile, colleagues in the Fire Department are covering their shifts back home.

By the way, the San Francisco firefighters union Local 798 has collected more than $30,000 for the families of the fallen firefighters in New York. Those interested in contributing can call (415) 621-7103.

Chronicle columnists Phillip Matier and Andrew Ross appear Sundays, Mondays and Wednesdays. They can also be heard on KGO Radio on Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. Phil Matier can be seen regularly on KRON-TV. Got a tip? Call them at

September 21, 2001 atimes.com

India risks mistaking terror for civilization



By Sultan Shahin

NEW DELHI - Unmindful of a strong swell of opposition, and growing Hindu-Muslim tension, the Bharatiya Janata Party-led coalition government is continuing with its efforts to muscle into the United States war effort as a frontline state.

Even though no military plans have been firmed up by the US for retaliatory strikes, and Washington has not yet indicated whether it wants to use the offer of Indian military facilities, India has identified three air bases, one each in the states of Jammu and Kashmir (Avantipur), Punjab (Adampur) and Gujarat (Jamnagar), in addition to unspecified port facilities on the western seaboard, as a part of its offer for operational support to the US.

India`s largest circulated newspaper, The Times of India, quoted a security official as saying that the offer had been conveyed to the US after it was approved by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) last week. The CCS approval came after consultations with the three service chiefs who unanimously agreed on the need to support the US action. According to the official, ``The chiefs felt that the Americans have joined our war against terrorism and we must naturally be the first to offer them help.`` He said that Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh`s articulation of the government stand was motivated by a desire to ensure that Pakistan does not gain through an Indian default.

The paper further quoted the official as saying that India had already begun the ``operational cooperation`` by providing US officials with the intelligence they have on Afghan camps and the Taliban. Over the years, India`s external security agency Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) has gathered a wealth of detail on the nature of the Pakistani military assistance to the Taliban. The official emphasized that the US has not yet indicated whether it wants to use the offer of military facilities. But he explained the rationale behind the offer in the following words, ``We have detailed our specific offer, which can then be factored into their planning.``

According to the paper, military officials say that their understanding is that the Indian ports could be used for unloading Diego Garcia and Guam-based marine pre-positioning ships. They are loaded with ready-to-use equipment for the marine forces that will fly in from their stations in the US. They could also be used for ``turning around`` or replenishing ships that are involved in the operations. According to the official, Indian air bases could be used by the US to provide depth to their deployment.

In its bid to curry favor with the US, the Indian government has been making other efforts too. It celebrated September 18 as a day of solidarity against terrorism and placed full-page advertisements in most mainstream newspapers expressing its cooperation with the US and asking people to observe two minutes of silence. The advertisement quoted Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee as saying, ``Every Indian has to be a part of this global war on terrorism. We must and we will stamp out this evil from our land and from the world.``

But what has jarred on some people`s minds and attracted much criticism, as reflected in the letters to the editor columns of most newspapers, is the fact that the advertisement appeared to associate terrorism with Muslims, even though most of the terrorism India faces in the northeast or the states of Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and Andhra Pradesh, for instance, is from Hindu militants.

Meanwhile, Delhi police have been put on high alert in view of possible communal Hindu-Muslim tension in the city if the US attacks the Taliban. Authorities fear that the minority community across the country may be targeted after the attacks in the US last week. Officials down the ranks have also been sensitized to maintain communal harmony, authorities pointed out.

This situation has arisen largely because both Hindu and Muslim hardliners have taken stands along religious divides. The parent organization of the ruling BJP, the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS), for instance, has pledged its solidarity to the US in its fight against what it described as ``Islamic terrorism``. Criticizing the US for its double standards, however, it regretted that ``while the US has set its own agenda of revenge against terrorist attacks, countries like India, facing terrorism for long, have to keep counting their dead, and hold peace talks too. No Indian leader had ever said that they would avenge the killings of innocent people by Pakistan terrorists,`` the RSS mouthpiece Panchjanya said in its latest issue.

Incidentally, this seems to support the Pakistani charge that India held the recent peace talks with Pakistan in Agra under American pressure.

Muslim extremist leaders are no less incendiary. ``Any attack on the innocent people of Afghanistan will be treated as an attack on the entire Muslim world,`` said the imam (prayer-leader) of a major Delhi mosque, Syed Abdullah Bukhari. Describing the US as a ``super-terrorist``, the Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) opposed any American attack on Afghanistan without clear evidence of its involvement in crime, saying ``such an action will be an act of terrorism``. Stating that SIMI was against all forms of terrorism, including the recent attacks in Washington and New York, SIMI official Safdar Nagori said, ``An independent and unbiased body should be instituted to investigate who is responsible for the terrorist attacks on America. No individual or nation should be held responsible without proof.`` Similar sentiments have been expressed by several other Islamic scholars.

Thus the battle lines are drawn along communal lines. But what is worrying observers is the attempt to resurrect the Ayodhya issue by the Sangh Pariwar (the extended Hindu fundamentalist family led by the RSS, the BJP and the VHP - Vishwa Hindu Parishad or World Hindu Congress). Ayodhya is the name of the town in the north Indian state of Uttar Pradesh where the Sangh Pariwar, led by the present Home Minister, L K Advani, demolished the Babri mosque in 1992 and which is now making an attempt to erect a Hindu temple on the exact site, even though the dispute is yet to be decided by the courts.

In an editorial expressing great apprehensions on this score, north India`s largest-circulated newspaper, the Hindustan Times, commented on September 19, ``The Sangh Parivar could not have chosen a more inauspicious time to resurrect their favorite cause. But what can they do? They seem psychologically incapable of thinking beyond the temple which they want to build in Ayodhya, at any cost, and come what may. In a perverse sense, they resemble the one-dimensional Taliban across the Khyber Pass. Like those bigoted warriors of Afghanistan, our trishul [a three-pointed weapon]-wielding Bajrangis, too, have their gaze focused on the mythical past, and a warped one at that.

``For them, the beginning and end of geography and history are marked only on three points on the Hindutva map: Ayodhya, Varanasi and Mathura [all towns in Uttar Pradesh with disputed mosque sites]. The world, and especially our subcontinent, can be pushed into a devastating war in the days to come, but the VHP remains oblivious of all that. Only Ayodhya remains its magnificent obsession. Obviously, the UP election is the reason for the Parivar`s frenzied behavior ... Ayodhya is the ultimate card to influence the voters in Uttar Pradesh. Add to this the prime minister`s declaration that the Ayodhya issue will be resolved by March, and the theater of the absurd in these times of terrorism and war becomes starker than ever.``

While the ruling party`s desperate need to do well in the impending elections in the state of UP does explain some of frenzy in the Sangh Pariwar, it doesn`t provide the full explanation. The desperation of the government seeking to force its way into the US war effort against ``Islamic`` terrorism and its party colleagues outside the government choosing this precise moment in seeking to start a divisive communal campaign within the country becomes more comprehensible viewed in the context of the firm belief of the Sangh Pariwar in Samuel P Huntington`s theory of the clash of civilizations. Perhaps the reason why it is facing difficulties in joining hands with the US is that Washington has not yet embraced this dangerous theory.

In an editorial entitled ``Clashing faultlines`` (September 19), the Pioneer newspaper, which best reflects the government and Sangh Pariwar thinking on most issues, says, ``The rules of confrontationist engagement have, after Terror Tuesday, altered sharply in the arena of geo-politics. They have brought into sharp focus how the world is being inexorably pushed towards the sharpest ever polarization between peoples of different beliefs and cultural practices.The scenario being etched across the world painfully reminds one of Samuel P Huntington`s 1996 thesis, outlined in his book The Clash of Civilizations and the remaking of the World Order. Huntington wrote how, in the post-Cold War era, Francis Fukuyama`s `end of history` thesis, wherein the latter spoke about the `universalization of Western liberal democracy`, would not hold. People would not, said Huntington, group along their political or economic identities, but along cultural lines, with greater emphasis on ethnic identities. The real conflicts of the future, he held, would result along the `faultlines` emerging from the confrontation among different civilizations dividing the world into various civilizational blocks. He believed that the primary conflict would be between the Sinic (Greater Chinese)-Islamic civilizations and Western civilization.

``At a seminar at Delhi University during his visit to India some years ago, Huntington aired the view that in such a conflict, India would have to choose sides, adding that he personally believed India`s rational choice would be to go with the West. Huntington has been pilloried by scholars and intellectuals from across the globe for his `simplistic` and `reductionist` polemics. But Terror Tuesday may finally have given the lie to his detractors.

``As events unfold in the near future, there will be an urgent need for countries to align with those against, and those with, the forces of global terrorism. That the scope of such terrorism transcends national boundaries or even nationalist affiliations is abundantly clear. After all, most of those who carried out Tuesday`s strikes were either American citizens or had lived in America, presumably long enough to have developed commonality with the American way of life. Yet, that was not strong enough to wear their commitment away from the civilizational affiliation they felt for far-away Osama bin Laden and his Al`Quaida, a multinational terrorist network. The expediency of the moment may have forced states like Pakistan to `play ball`, as it were, to George W Bush`s demands, but once the heat and dust settles down on the situation, the fault lines that separate civilizations will be clearly drawn. It is then when India will have to make its choice, limited that it is by its civilizational uniqueness. For India, the days of non-aligned geo-political engagement are truly over,`` the Pioneer editorial concluded.

Fortunately in India sensible people abound. Well-known social activists and spiritual leaders Swami Agnivesh and Reverent Valson Thampu, for instance, counter this thesis forcefully in an article carried by south India`s largest-circulated newspaper, The Hindu. ``The Huntington hypothesis emerges as a self-fulfilling prophecy of doom. It is this very synergy between the emerging scenario and the US foreign policy predilections reflected in the Huntington hypothesis that makes us worry. But for Huntington`s patently fanciful and wilfully mischievous thesis, the US administration`s swagger of rooting out terrorism worldwide need not have evoked the intuitions of an impending holocaust.

``It is incredible and scary how facilely the so-called intellectuals see the present situation in terms of a civilization conflict between Islam and Christianity. Among other things, this outlook thrives on the idiocy of equating the madness of some terrorists with Islam. Even more objectionably, it equates American interests with Christianity, whereas the two are utterly incompatible. What is unfolding itself is not a civilizational conflict, but an uncivilized and anti-civilizational conflict between two dominant but unequal interest groups into the maelstrom of which the rest of the world is being dragged as partisan players. President Bush projects the war against terrorism as a war in defense of democracy.``

The two spiritual leaders of Hinduism and Christianity conclude on a sobering note, ``The growing cynicism about dialogue is complemented by the rising faith in terror. This, more than anything else, encapsulates our civilizational crudity. In real terms, the reigning creed at all levels is simply `might is right`. We shall ridicule ourselves by mistaking this clash of terrors for a clash of civilizations.``

Very interesting article at:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/010920/6/154jc.html

Ras

Very interesting article at:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/010920/6/154jc.html

Ras

Akash

There is only one negotiated settlement. Pakistan must immeidately vacate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Pakistan must pay India a few billion dollars and surrender either Lahore or Islamabad for the crime of selling part of Kashmir to their Chinese masters. Also Pakistani army must disarmed and all officers tried for crime against humanity for their role in murdering 70000 innocent Kashmiris.

There is no other negotiated settlement.

Hobbyty

``. Perhaps a negotiated settlement in Captive Kashmir should be given serious consideration in India.

``

Okay, what kind of negotiated settlement are you talking about. Let me suggest you mine. India will forego any claims on PoK, stop any anti-Paki activity, and accept LoC as the permanent border. Kashmiris can fulfil their ambitions of self rule under the secular democratic system of India an Indians in other parts do. Are you game. If you start BS again,then all the best.

monasaehgal

YOur understanding of hobbyty is right. He mixes his hatred of India and Hindus with interesting liberal postings from islamic scholars and even Pakistani press to to score points. His hope is to establish his credentials by using these liberal posts to then say and spread his hatred.

He targets some specific groups on Chowk. Young Pakistani impressionables whom he tries to teach his brand of fundamentalism. Specially Indian muslims who he tries to trap by selling his `islam` and hatred of India in one basket. Most Indians are too smart to fall for him.

If anyone wants to understand what hobbyty is really saying they should read *all * his posts and they will notice is a clear pattern which is not about religion but about hatred. He is a snake oil salesman who can train people like urstrly.

Monasegal

Persons who hold polarizing views, frequently find the same in others - don`t you think?



My motivation? Well first things first, what do you think the author`s motivation is? What is the author saying and to whom?

I find it interesting that Indians on these boards have been telling Pakistanis that Indians are a very open and accepting people. Witness: Aryans did not come to India from the North West - No - They went from India to the North West (see Indians are Aryans not Dravidians)

AND Islam and Muslims are OK cuz Arabs are actually Indians - (Arabs did not come to India, They went to Arabia from India) Chin aur arab Humara -- Gentle, peace loving, non-violent, Singing and dancing Indians.

Now my motivation: We dont have very many (except mine)posts that are just silly and outrageously good fun.

hobbyty #103

I have always thought of you having very polarised view. But this post of yours (don`t know that exact motivation behind it) was quite interesting to read.

Mona

Kafir K Khan - All indians

rejoice - indians blood?

``Islam and India

The relationship is deeper than is normally thought

SAIYED FEEROZE HAIDER

WHAT if it is proved that the Prophet of Islam had connections with India? Unbelievable! But it is quite possible from historical evidence and old manuscripts. Diverse opinions are held as to who were the autochthonous inhabitants of India. It is widely known that Aryans claim a long association with India, but the Arab claim is not so well-known. A few thousand years ago, the Aryans migrating from the uplands of Central Asia arrived in the Punjab and soon settled down in the land. But the Arabs claim that their contact with India goes much further back and that in fact they cherish the belief that India has been their fatherland since the dawn of creation.

Arab traders frequented parts of Sindh and Malabar even before Islam. Indian traders also visited the annual fair of Daba, in South East Arabia and most probably also those of Yemen. For when the Yemenite chief Saif-ibn-dhi Yazan informed the Persian emperor that his country was occupied by ‘‘crows’’, and asked for help, the Kisra inquired: ‘‘Which crows? Of Abyssinia or of Sindh?’’ This could not have occurred to the mind of the emperor unless there were strong ties between India and Yemen.

In the Prophet’s traditions and the commentaries on the Quran, we find different versions of the story of Adam. Many of these are agreed on the point that when Adam was expelled from ‘the Paradise in Heaven’, he was put down in India, ‘the Paradise on Earth’. His feet first touched Lanka where his footprint is still to be seen on a hill.

As Adam first landed in India and received the first revelation in this country, if follows that India was the first recipient of Divine revelation.

It is still more surprising to be told that even in the age of Mahabharata, there were men in India who knew the language of the Arabs. It seems incredible. But a great Pandit regards it as true. Swami Dayanandji, the author of Sattyarth Prakash, writes ‘‘When the Kurus built a house of sealing wax and proposed to put the Pandavas inside it, and then burn it down, Vidurji gave direction to Yudhishtira in Arabic, and the latter replied to him in the same language’’ (11th Samvanas, 1st pro, 147th Adhyaya). Not only this, the name of the Prophet Dhu’l Zul-Kifl (literally: one who is of Kifl) is interpreted as ‘‘of Kapila Vastu’’ — the birthplace of Gautam Budha — Kapila being Arabicized into Kifl. Another interpretation is that ‘‘Kifl’’, literally nourishment, is the translation of ‘‘Suddho Dana’’, the name of the father of the Buddha.

Further in the Surah 95 of the Quran, we read: ‘‘By the fig tree, and by the olive tree, and by the Mount Sinin, and by this protected City’’. There is unanimity among commentators that ‘‘this City’’ is Mecca, ‘‘Mount Sinin’’ is Sinai of Moses, Mount of Olives refers to Jesus. As to the fig tree, everybody knows the Bodhi tree, the tree of wild fig, under which Gautam Buddha received his first revelation.

The rise of Islam in the 7th century gave much emphasis to the movement of expansion, which was going on since pre-Islamic days. The first Muslim fleet appeared in India in 636 AD during the reign of the second Caliph of Islam Hazrat Umar.

In Muslim society the highest in rank are the ‘‘Syed’’ or descendants of the Prophet. Most of the Syed families are descended from Imam Husain’s son Imam Zainul Abidin. It is known that the Imam’s mother was not an Arab. The Persians claim that she was a member of the Persian royal family. Some historians believe that she came from Sindh. If they are right, does it not follow that Indian blood flows in the veins of the members of the noblest and most exalted family among Muslims? It will then have to be conceded that the descendants of Imam Zainul Abidin are half-Indian, whose ancestors saved Islam at Karbala!``

Kafir K khan

Besharmo? That rich coming from you. What didn`t India offer the US - yet still, thanks but no thanks - and we are besharam - Of course we are.

Forget the legumes, stick with cow`s milk and vegetables.

Do you know why US wants Bin Laden? It`s clear that analysis of the US aviation system, training of those who executed the TT and DC acts did not take place in Afghanistan, now, even the Bush Administration is saying that there were states involved in this act - cud it Afghanistan? if it was, why have they not shown the same efficiency in thier war with the NA?

Cud it be Pakistan? And be the key allied country in the ``new`` war?

It`s a waste of time trying defame Pakistan and Islam - this will become clear in a couple of weeks - then what? - we`ll be besharam, that`s for sure - but where does that get you?

Kafir K Khan

Bechare Indians - and The Pakistani of easy virtue... and blood thirsty.

If only the meaning of events and trends were so simple. Did he mean long or did he mean forever?

What`s important for the likes of you is to remember that he said the Air force is on Alert for a ``do or die`` mission.

These events are taking on a very ominous tone, Chinese comments on these events should be taken as sobering in India. Perhaps a negotiated settlement in Captive Kashmir should be given serious consideration in India.

Kafir K Khan #95
``In the end he said.``May Pakistan live long````

Maybe he was shaken and distracted by the note handed to him that Bin Laden wanted to `Ganga Nahaao` and eat Dilli chaat as preconditions for surrender(tentacles of a larger Indian conspiracy).

Reply Kafir K Khan #80

Kafir Bhaijan, thumhare moonh men ghee shakkar. (But Muslims have always been famous for their appreciation of pappads and also papadi. Also of ankles….uh oh.)

I`m not really sure that India being out of the coalition is not in its best interests. Why get involved in a brawl when one doesn`t need to? We have demonstrated our willingness to be on the US side. Now is the time to stand aside, let others do the fighting, and then pick up from where they let off. At least if we don`t get physically involved in any attack on Afghanistan, then the regime which succeeds the Taliban will have less reason to be hostile to India, (and better, probably lots of hostility for Pakistan). We need to have a hold in Afghanistan to contain Pakistan, and maybe this is the best way to go about it.

-narain

Kafir K Khan #80...

Good one!...if only all the people in India and Pakistan were sensible....the utopia you describe would have been true..and life would have been less serious than today...but Hindu and Muslim Jehadis ahev to keep fighting...because they do not know what religion is...religion is for love and not hatred. Love between Bedekar and Ahmed!

Bin Laden singing behind the pillars in Taj ``ghooghat ki aad mein dliwar ka``...if only it were possible!

I commend the honesty of the writer and the newspaper.
http://www.dawn.com/2001/09/19/fea.htm#3

``.. Only the other day I happened to attend a seminar in Karachi arranged by a leading Jihadi organization. Almost all the major Jihadi groups were invited to protest against the measures the federal government intended to take against their fund-raising campaign and other militant activities. The seminar was well- attended and marked by aggressively spirited oratory warning the government against the consequences of its anti-Jihad policies at the behest of America.

The central theme of the speeches made was that no power on earth could either persuade or dissuade the Mujahideen from continuing to wage the Kashmir Jihad until the final victory. Kashmir, it was said, was only the doorway to their world-wide Jihad: oratory at its best.

What might have been missing to the mind of an outside observer, appeared to be the fire and the passion galvanizing a Mujahid. They sounded more as trained and battle- hardened warriors than emotionally-charged and impassioned Mujahideen. A matter of perception more than a value judgement. What was real and beyond question was that a seminar like that was held at all in one of the city`s posh hotels. Fiery speeches (no holds barred) were made challenging the authority of the government and accusing it of cowardice and docility vis-a-vis America.

Some of the prominent groups, with networks across the country, attending the conference included Sipah-i-Sahaba, Jaish-i- Mohammad, Sunni Tehreek, Jamaat-i-Islami (Sindh) and Al-Badar. Whether the impassioned idiom used and the warning extended through the various speeches would be backed up by practical action should in no way eclipse the fact that such a passion play was staged at all...``

`` ...While Kashmir can wait in spite of its shared Jihad motif and linkage with Afghanistan, a thorough reappraisal of our Afghan strategy can hardly wait. It needs to be undertaken without loss of time even at the cost of discomfiting the Taliban. As for the media exploitation of the Jihadi theme, it needs to be downplayed as much as possible.... ``

Re: Shah

Oh boy, I`ve got you hopping in your dirty little shalwar. Now there, here`s another little phataaka to make you jump even higher.

``America is your momento for life ,like that piece of Presslers statemenmt NOT worth the paper its written on ``

That statement of Pressler`s may be meaningless, but the Pressler Amendement voted into LAW by the US congress was sure painful as it went up Pakistan`s behind. Do you know what the Pressler Amendment is? Go read it, if you can. Else maybe someone can translate it into whatever Mullah language you speak.

RE: Shah

``MOSCOW, SEPT. 18. India and Russia share concerns that any impending U.S. strike against terrorist bases in Afghanistan may have negative regional consequences.``

When you Mullahs start blowing each other`s brains out on your highway to heaven, of course India, Russia, Central Asia republics, and even China have to be concerned ... to make sure you keep it in your backyards and away from our borders.

Re: Shah/jacka$$

You are writing about ``Hindians`` while posting an article about 2 Muslims being arrested by the FBI? Learn to read, Mullah.

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RE: semipreciousme

``this tragedy is definitely bringing out the worse in you…..or are you just having a bad week?``

Both. The former is causing the latter. Too much anger, fear, anxiety, and grief....

Brad Cruise 76

Indian nymphets danced for Clinton. Sorry he refused to accept the daughters you were ready to sell him. Don`t worry. You have a large market for your daughters with lecherous 70 year old arabs who will purify your impure race.

Re: Brad Cruise/AAmir/Shah

Jacka$$, do you know what Pressler Amendment is? You know who Larry Pressler is? A REPUBLICAN who shoved a shoe deep up Pakistan`s behind. Go read about him, what he did, and how it brought Pakistan to its knees.

Here`s a little excerpt from what this REPUBLICAN has to say:

``The following week, the White House staff contacted me and I was off to some of the most fascinating business meetings throughout India. I say fascinating, as they stretched from Delhi to Mumbai to Hyderabad, and they dealt with my favorite subject... closer business and trade ties between India and the U.S.``

Oh, and unlike you who learned his A-B-Cs from Marassah High, the Senator is from Harvard Law School and a Rhodes Scholar from Oxford. Let`s give his evaluation of Pakistan a little more weight.

Rsaxena:

“Btw, check your passport again to see if it is green or blue.”

…..this tragedy is definitely bringing out the worse in you…..or are you just having a bad week?



”If we had learned from Mossad, we could`ve assasinated several leaders of terrorist Paki organizations by now.”

……and done not only india, but pakistan a great favor…..but hey, it’s never too late, right?

#: 74

sadna

hobbyt #69

hobbyt, pl. tell us what are Indians to feel jilted or jealous about



Besharam Larki ,

How soon you forget the dance you indian nymphets performed with pierced bellybutton for lecherous Clinton when he went to India in 2000 march.Remember the reception you gave him even when he was post Presidency gone to Gujrat.A baniya doesnt let hisSon marry for love.He demands hard cash dowry .How can we believe Hindians did all this for Nothing.Despite i said to Hindians ,In America an Ex-President is only good as the party he belongs too. Too bad despite your crores of Rupees spent in India & millon by the NRI abortion clinic doctors money earned immorally went to waste when Democrat lost desoite the indian pac money in 2000 Elections!!!.

Pakistan always have had better relation with conservative patriotic American Republicans.Collin Powell,Dick Cheyne ,& Bush ,have all always said PAKSTAN IS`` OUR OLDEST ALLY FROM THR BEGINNING ``.And they took Pakistan as friend like old friend should,IT WAS ONLY LECHEROUS SEX MANIAC DEMOCRATS SUITABLE TO INDIAN DEVDASNI CULTURE THAT FOR 8 long YRS RELATION WAS DERAILED.Its DEMOCRAT stupid NOT AMERICA to be blamed for that!!!!!

Re: soysauce

``Making a virtue out of necessity, i see.``

Yugoslavia? Yugoslavia??

hobbyt #69
hobbyt, pl. tell us what are Indians to feel jilted or jealous about?

``Not to worry, after this thing is over, you can have them back. ``
Have who back?

``By the way did you catch Bush`s speech at the Masjid? Protect the right to wear hijab and cover? Must be lashkar e jabbar conspiracy?``

How can protecting the right to wear hijab be a threat to India? Now if Bush had recommended shooting those who didnot wear a burqa, that would certainly been a lashkar e jabbar conspiracy.

btw, hows the old hobbyt, give him my regards, hope he is let out to play sometimes :)?

Saxena,

Making a virtue out of necessity, i see.

As for the tiara you must have swallowed it, hence the babbling.

Stop chewing and go color your passport now..

Is it true that when elephants fight, it the grass that gets crushed?

Certainly, America is an elephant, Pakistan, Afghanistan are the grass - but who is/are the other elephant(s)?

Osama? Al-Qaida? Are you kidding?

If we can correctly identify who the other side is, we can gain a commanding view of these events. Maybe if we can understand why the elephants have choosen to fight here and in this region generally, we may come close to identifying who the other elephant(s) is/are.

RE: hobbyty

``sorry you tried to incite hatred of Muslims?? You will be.

``Pak conditions for helping US baffle India

From Iftikhar Gilani``

Hey dumba$$, you expect us to take what some ``Iftikhar Gilani`` writes seriously and as objective reporting? Sorry, your audience here is not mujahideen/terrorists looking for hope.

soyasauce # 60:

``As for the color of my passport, my daughter loves to color everything.``

haww :)

Sadna

Thanks for the reassurance - that just what Vajpayee, Advani, Jaswant, Mishra and company are also seeking.

Pakistani and some Indian newspapers suggest indians are experiencing a measure of jealousy and that Jilted feeling -

Let me offer you some reassurance too, Not to worry, after this thing is over, you can have them back. By the way did you catch Bush`s speech at the Masjid? Protect the right to wear hijab and cover? Must be lashkar e jabbar conspiracy?

Secularism is built on tolerance of pluralism - we in Pakistan need to learn that, as do our neighbors, who lips synch the song without knowing what it means. Happy trails.

Saxena,

Making a virtue out of necessity, i see.

As for the tiara you must have swallowed it, hence the babbling.

Stop chewing and go color your passport now..

Is it true that when elephants fight, it the grass that gets crushed?

Certainly, America is an elephant, Pakistan, Afghanistan are the grass - but who is/are the other elephant(s)?

Osama? Al-Qaida? Are you kidding?

If we can correctly identify who the other side is, we can gain a commanding view of these events. Maybe if we can understand why the elephants have choosen to fight here and in this region generally, we may come close to identifying who the other elephant(s) is/are.

RE: hobbyty

``sorry you tried to incite hatred of Muslims?? You will be.

``Pak conditions for helping US baffle India

From Iftikhar Gilani``

Hey dumba$$, you expect us to take what some ``Iftikhar Gilani`` writes seriously and as objective reporting? Sorry, your audience here is not mujahideen/terrorists looking for hope.

soyasauce # 60:

``As for the color of my passport, my daughter loves to color everything.``

haww :)

Sadna

Thanks for the reassurance - that just what Vajpayee, Advani, Jaswant, Mishra and company are also seeking.

Pakistani and some Indian newspapers suggest indians are experiencing a measure of jealousy and that Jilted feeling -

Let me offer you some reassurance too, Not to worry, after this thing is over, you can have them back. By the way did you catch Bush`s speech at the Masjid? Protect the right to wear hijab and cover? Must be lashkar e jabbar conspiracy?

Secularism is built on tolerance of pluralism - we in Pakistan need to learn that, as do our neighbors, who lips synch the song without knowing what it means. Happy trails.

hobbyt #58
Dispossessed patent-pending seizure again? If you feeling anxious about the US landing, well I sincerely think it will all end well for both Pakistan and India.

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Two Indians being quizzed by FBI

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P BALU, NIHAL KOSHIE AND RAM KARAN

[]

TIMES NEWS NETWORK

[]

YDERABAD: Two men from Hyderabad, Mohammed Jaweed Azmath and Ayub Ali Khan, are among several suspects held in the United States in the wake of last Tuesday`s terrorist attacks in New York and Washington. Azmath and Khan are said to be residents of Doodh Bowli in the Old City. It was the families of Azmath and Khan who noticed their pictures being flashed on television as two persons arrested from a train as suspects in the terrorist attacks.

Earlier, Azmath and Khan`s families had contacted the relief helpline set up by the state government at the Secretariat here and gave the two men`s names and details such as age and local address. According to their families, Khan and Azmath had planned to take a plane from New Jersey to Texas on September 11, but decided to take a train instead after the terrorist attack. Meanwhile, an agency report from Washington said the two men, when arrested from a train at Dallas, claimed they were Indians, and have been detained and taken for questioning in connection with the devastating terrorist strikes in the USA in which more than 5,000 people are feared killed.

Ayub Khan (51) and Azmath (47) were taken into custody on Sunday at a railway station in Fort Worth, Texas and were flown to New York for questioning. They were in custody ``in the strongest possibility we have yet`` in the nationwide Federal Bureau of Investigation probe,Texas law enforcement authorities said.

A New York report said the duo had told the authorities that they were Indians but Texas authorities said the men lied about their nationality and had no legitimate identification. The two men had $5,000-10,000 in cash and box cutters of the type used by the 19 terrorists who commandeered the hijacked jets that they smashed into the World Trade Center and Pentagon on September 11.

Authorities said Khan and Azmath had flown on Tuesday from Newark, New Jersey, on a flight bound for San Antonio, Texas but which was diverted and forced to land in St Louis after the attacks in New York and Washington.

The authorities said the two men then got on an Amtrak train but were pulled off it on Wednesday in Fort Worth for a drug check, which targeted several passengers at random.

The two were being held on possible immigration violation, although they were taken to New York for interrogation by the FBI’s joint terrorism task force. Law enforcement sources said they were trying to find out if Azmath and Khan could be linked to a doctor from San Antonio, who is also in custody, according to CNN TV network. The authorities on Saturday afternoon also searched the Jersey City apartment the two men had been sharing located in the same neighbourhood of some of the conspirators who plotted the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

According to their landlord in New Jersey, both men lived there for six or seven years and they worked at a stationery store in New York. According to Rabouth, the landlord,Azmath was recently out of the country for several months. Their neighbours in New Jersey, according to reports, said the duo were seen nearly every day, leaving very early and coming home late for the past several years until they disappeared about a week ago.

#55 Stuka

It doesn`t have to be as precipitous as US requiring plebiscite in kashmir. The US could simply hamper any aggressive indian effort to deal with the militancy.

Apparently, GOI is sufficiently worried about the prospects of the US tilting away from india, that Brijesh Mishra and Jaswant Singh are going to be visiting Washington (rediff). It`s about time they got busy.

As for the color of my passport, my daughter loves to color everything.

Rsaxsena

Back of the bus!! jilted jaswant the sikh/hindu still laughing?? the fanatic Advani or the lune, K Subrmanium, still laughing?? You still laughing?? - sorry you tried to incite hatred of Muslims?? You will be.

``Pak conditions for helping US baffle India

From Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI–Pakistan’s support to the United States has turned tables on the Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee led Indian government, which, according to reports, had not only offered refueling facilities and air bases, but also the use of warplanes like Mirages, Jaguars and the newly-acquired Sukhois, in case the US-led forces attack Afghanistan and also destroy the alleged training camps of Kashmiri Mujahideen in Azad Kashmir.

The new situation has changed the scenario, with New Delhi now insisting that it had never backed the military operation against Afghanistan. ‘We believe that military operation against Afghanistan should not be the first option before the United States,” said a senior Indian official, while briefing a select group of newsmen at South Block, headquarters of India’s External Affairs Ministry.

External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh Monday also lashed out at Pakistan for putting conditions for helping the US to ‘wipe out terrorism.’ He said the conditions reported to have been made by Pakistan President General Musharraf to the US for helping them find Osama bin Laden were absurd. It was reported here that Pervez Musharraf had asked for intervention in the Kashmir issue. Mr. Singh also said that Pakistan is still to show any commitment towards fighting terrorism and the bilateral dialogue between India and Pakistan has now been overshadowed by the latest developments.

At the daily Press briefing, Indian spokesperson Nirupama Rao said the reported Pakistani conditions have ‘trivilised the global approach towards terrorism and have also trivilised the colossal dimension of the huge tragedy.’ Choosing words to back out from supporting the US military action, she maintained that the menace of terrorism could not be wiped out only through the military attacks. ‘It is a systematic problem and demands a sustained approach,” said the Indian spokesperson.’

Just on Sunday night participating in a discussion on Star TV, India’s junior Home Minister I. D. Swami had said that India would render all help and provide military facilities to the US was part of the cooperation against terrorism. He was echoing his Prime Minister and Home Minister L. K. Advani, who for the past one week, since the American cities were attacked have been drawing parallels between the armed movement in Held Jammu and Kashmir and American concern towards terrorism. They had treated this an opportunity to put Pakistan in dock and forge a triangle with the US and Israel.

Senior Indian official, while briefing select group of newsmen revealed that India has started working towards formulating a ‘concert of democracies’ to strike at the root of global terrorism.” Asked the role of Pakistan in the concert: he said ‘Pakistan could not have any place in the proposed forum,’ but China can be included.’ The consultation has already begun, he said, adding that Jaswant Singh has spoken to his Russian counterpart Igor Ivanov on Sunday. He is also preparing to visit Washington. India’s National Security Adviser Brajesh Mishra is already in Moscow and he has been asked to proceed to the US with this plan, after concluding his deliberations with the Russian leaders.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair has written a letter to Prime Minister Vajpayee on the issue of forging cooperation against terrorism. American envoy Robert D. Blackwill also met Singh Monday morning to apprise him of the US stand in the wake of new developments in the region.

Instead of a hasty military crackdown, top official said, India has proposed a thorough discussion on the comprehensive convention of terrorism at the United Nations General Assembly and the Security Council and to strengthen the international legal framework against international terrorism.

It has also emphasised that the ‘concert of democracies” in the world is a move towards institutionalising an intelligence sharing network.

The official was candid enough to admit that the US action in Afghanistan would create hundreds of Osamas. ‘If the US addresses the issue only militarily, then hundreds of Osamas could come up. New Delhi wants that terrorism should be wiped out completely.’

Further, the official said Pakistan had not offered to cooperate with the US in fighting against terrorism on its own, but was forced to comply with the ‘wish list” handed over by the Washington. He said New Delhi was not giving much credence to Pakistan’s proposed cooperation with the US.

Meanwhile, far from the war drums being played in South Asia, India’s‘Minister of State for External Affairs Omar Abdullah along with the delegation of officials is participating in a meeting in the remote Central Asian city of Dushanbe. The meeting that has brought together India, Russia, Iran, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan’s anti-Taliban Northern Alliance is discussing the fallout in Afghanistan in the wake of the American campaign against terrorism and killing of the most reverred commander of Northern Alliance Ahmed Shah Masood.``

Sadna, Gohwardan

My post began with ``Poor Hindu fanatics..`` - The two of you felt compelled to respond. What pulled you in ``Poor`` or ``Hindu fanatics``?

Re: Stuka #55

Thanks.

Soysauce,

Please deal with Stuka on all the inane and irrelevant points you are raising. He seems to be a lot more patient than I am in spoon feeding logic to you.

(I have already told you, I lose, you win. Just tell me where the tiara is and I`ll crown you.)