Explaining it to an American Friend

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sattar2 #79 you write ``You accuse Ahmadi-Muslims of having a narrow definition of “seal”.`` and proceed to take me to task on this``. You are wrong since very clearly this is NOT what I wrote. Please read carefully what I wrote in post #66, which I am cutting and pasting for your convenience: ``I am being hard only on one very narrow specific point, namely USE of the term ``seal``. As should be clear to anyone, I consider the ISSUE OF THE SEAL to be ``one very narrow specific point``. Please think about it, since this is OUTSIDE THE BOX in which this issue is often discussed by both sunnis and ahmedis, and that is probably why you did not interpret what I wrote correctly.

You continue: ``Furthermore, you once again incorrectly accuse Ahmadis of hero-worship.`` Again, you are wrong. To continue my cut and paste from #66 this is what I wrote: ``And on one very broad point, namely that of hero-worship (in any form, secular heroworship of ataturk or jinnah, or ``religious`` heroworship of pirs, fakirs, prophets). `` As should be clear, this does not apply to ahmedis only.

It is impossible to have a discussion if you dont read what I have carefully written, and to interpret what I have written to match you preconceived notions rather than to what I have actually written. I should not have to cut and paste my posts (as I have had to do here) and spend my time trying to explain what you should have provided me the courtesy of reading properly the first time.

Yankeeraj and Subroto - da,

Where I live, Subroto-da you are better off saying you are from down under than saying you are a Yankee :-)

Ref Shah #: 282

[Harimou,

Eat your heart out

Your master America HAD to change the name so fondly given by Bush,Ashcroft ,Powell & Rumsfield

OPERATION INFINITE JUSTICE

TO

OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM



Reason,muslim belief no one other than GOD,Allah ,is Perfect ,hence INFINITE ,Justice ,can never be rendered by man/woman and muslim countries sought for coalition would not want to be part of the operation.]

I have it on good authority that they were going to rename it Operation PMPH (Prophet Muhammad`s Pubic Hair). In fact, that is the code name internally.

The hydra`s 10 biggest heads

A `war on terrorism` doesn`t just mean Osama bin Laden captured `dead or alive.` His is just the biggest of countless interconnected extremist groups around the world, with varying goals, beliefs and backers. MARCUS GEE profiles some of the most menacing

By MARCUS GEE







Saturday, September 29, 2001 – Page F8

The world`s attention is focused on Osama bin Laden as the chief suspect in the Sept. 11 attacks. But his network, Al Qaeda, is only one member of a complex cast of Islamic extremists, diverse in aims, nationalities and religious affiliations.

Yet there is evidence that these groups are coming together under bin Laden`s guidance to combat a common enemy: the United States. ``The more suspects we round up, the farther afield we seem to be getting,`` said Donald Snow, a terrorism expert at the University of Alabama. ``We have Saudis and Algerians and Afghans -- it`s a multinational operation.``

In his book on bin Laden, The New Jackals, journalist Simon Reeve says the new breed of terrorist group is harder to fight because it is less structured and hierarchical. ``The terrorists are more like a cult, receiving religious motivation and broad instruction via radio broadcast, satellite telephone and the Internet.``

The groups that co-operate with bin Laden are diverse. Some belong to the minority Shia branch of Islam, some to the majority Sunni branch. Some are leftists, some Islamic conservatives. The aim, Reeve writes, ``is now to harness these disparate groups, with their widely different aims, into a broad coalition with one central objective: to attack the West.``

One of the suspected ringleaders, Mohamed Atta, who was on American Airlines Flight 11 when it struck the World Trade Center, is believed to have drifted into bin Laden`s orbit from the Egyptian group Al Jihad. And when U.S. President George W. Bush froze the assets of individuals and organizations linked to bin Laden this week, the list included extremists groups in nine countries, even including the Philippines.

According to the U.S. Congressional Research Service, bin Laden`s group, Al Qaeda, now encompasses members and factions of Al Jihad, Egypt`s Islamic Group, Algeria`s Armed Islamic Group, Pakistan`s Harakat ul-Mujahidin, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan and opposition groups in Saudi Arabia. Several Egyptians from Al Jihad and the Islamic Group reportedly now serve as bin Laden`s top lieutenants.

``The bin Laden group is not an organization of individuals per se,`` said Peter Sederberg, who teaches international relations at the University of South Carolina. ``Call it an organization of organizations.``

In a television talk show last week, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell called Al Qaeda ``something of a large holding company. And the head of the holding company is Osama bin Laden.`` He may have let it be known which targets he would like to have hit or, like a macabre charitable foundation, have considered proposals before choosing which to underwrite with his estimated $300-million (U.S.) fortune.

``Bin Laden is a mentor, a sort of inspirer, for the activities of the network,`` said Paul Wilkinson, a terrorism expert at St. Andrews University in Scotland. ``The grand strategy and general methodology are decided at the top, but a lot of individual discretion is left to the cells in the field.``

That makes networks like his much harder to fight, said Michael Collins Dunn, editor of the Washington-based Middle East Journal. ``You have to cut off a lot of little hydra heads, not just the big central brain.``

Here is a look at some of the leading Islamic extremist groups, gleaned from terrorism experts and reports by the U.S. State Department and the Congressional Research Service.

1. AL QAEDA

The chief suspect in the Sept. 11 mayhem was founded by Osama bin Laden in the late 1980s to bring together Arabs who had fought the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Now, its declared aim is to overthrow Middle Eastern governments (in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, for example) it considers ``un-Islamic`` and thus clear the way for a pan-Islamic caliphate, or empire.

In a 1998 edict, bin Laden pronounced that ``to kill Americans and their allies, both civil and military, is an individual duty of every Muslim who is able.`` That year, Al Qaeda attacked U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, killing 301 people and injuring more than 5,000 others. As well, it has been linked to assassination plots against the Pope in 1994 and U.S. president Bill Clinton in 1995.

Strength: Several hundred militants, perhaps several thousand, but hard to say because it acts as an umbrella for other extremist groups.

Turf: Training camps and bases in Afghanistan, plus cells located in an estimated 30 countries.

Backers: Draws on bin Laden`s family fortune, estimated at up to $300-million (U.S.), as well as individual donations from wealthy sympathizers and funds pilfered from Muslim charities.

2. AL JIHAD

Active in Egypt since the late 1970s, Al Jihad made its name by assassinating government leaders, including President Anwar Sadat in 1981. It has had few successes since bombing Egypt`s embassy in Pakistan in 1995, but its operatives now are believed to play a key role in bin Laden`s Al Qaeda.

Strength: Unknown, but may have several hundred committed members.

Turf: Operates mainly in and around Cairo, but also has members in Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Lebanon and Britain.

Backers: Iran, according to the Egyptian government, as well as bin Laden`s Al Qaeda.

3. THE ISLAMIC GROUP

Egypt`s biggest militant group has been quiet since its fighters killed 58 tourists near Luxor in 1997. After a harsh crackdown by the Egyptian government, its blind spiritual leader, Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, declared a ceasefire, which he later withdrew. Now, he is in a U.S. jail for plotting terror attacks and his group, like Al Jihad, has ties with bin Laden.

Strength: Several thousand militants at one time, but probably far fewer now.

Turf: Mainly southern Egypt, plus Cairo, but also has a presence in such countries as Sudan, Afghanistan, Austria, Yemen and Britain.

Backers: Believed to be Iran, bin Laden and various Afghan groups.

4. ARMED ISLAMIC GROUP

(GIA)

Founded by Algerian veterans of the anti-Soviet struggle in Afghanistan, the GIA vows to replace Algeria`s military-backed regime with an Islamic one. From 1992 to 1997, the GIA killed more than 100 foreigners living in Algeria and carried out a series of gruesome civilian massacres, wiping out whole villages. In 1997, the most lethal raid left 400 civilians dead in a town southwest of Algiers.

Driven into exile, some members appear to have joined bin Laden, including Ahmed Ressam, the ex-Montrealer said to have trained in Afghanistan before plotting to bomb the Los Angeles airport two years ago.

Strength: Unclear. Several hundred to several thousand.

Turf: Mainly Algeria, although veterans have dispersed abroad.

Backers: Algerian expatriates in Europe and North America; according to Algerian claims, Iran and Sudan.

5. ABU SAYYAF GROUP

Determined to forge the southern islands of the Philippines into an Islamic republic, Abu Sayyaf has attracted worldwide attention with several high-profile hostage takings -- more than 30 foreigners last year alone. Members have both trained and fought in Afghanistan, and are thought to be linked with the bin Laden network.

Strength: About 200 trained fighters and up to 2,000 militant supporters

Turf: Mostly southern Philippines, before branching out this year by abducting foreign tourists in Malaysia.

Backers: Thought to receive support from Islamic militants in the Middle East as well as in South Asia.

6. HARAKAT UL-MUJAHIDIN

(HUM)

Fighting to end India`s control of Muslim sectors of the province of Kashmir, this collection of Pakistani, Kashmiri, Arab and Afghan veterans of the war in Afghanistan is believed to be responsible for the hijacking of an Indian airliner in December, 1999. HUM leader Fazlur Rehman Khalil signed bin Laden`s edict urging Muslims to attack Americans, but he stepped down last year and his successor seems less close to Al Qaeda.

Strength: Several thousand armed supporters.

Turf: Trains in Pakistan and Afghanistan; strikes targets mainly in Kashmir.

Backers: Donations from Pakistanis, Kashmiris and several Arab countries, including Saudi Arabia.

7. ISLAMIC MOVEMENT OF UZBEKISTAN

This group wants to topple the government of President Islam Karimov, and has set off bombs in Uzbekistan`s capital, Tashkent, kidnapped foreigners and battled with government security forces.

Strength: Probably in the thousands.

Turf: Based in Afghanistan and Tajikistan, it operates in Kyrgyzstan as well as at home.

Backers: Other Islamic extremist groups in South and Central Asia.

8. HEZBOLLAH

The so-called Party of God consists of radical Shiites and is based in Lebanon. On the leading edge of anti-Western and anti-American terrorism in the 1980s, it is thought to have bombed a U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, killing 241 Americans. Hezbollah was also responsible for a spate of high-profile kidnappings of Americans and other Westerners. The Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon last year left it without an immediate purpose, but hard-line members want to carry on with the ``anti-Zionist`` struggle.

Strength: A few hundred terrorist operatives and several thousand supporters.

Turf: Southern Lebanon, southern suburbs of Beirut and Lebanon`s Bekaa Valley. Has cells in many other parts of the world.

Backers: Iran is a close ally and provides heavy support. Syria is also a friend.

9. HAMAS

Dedicated to replacing Israel with an Islamic Palestinian state, Hamas and its smaller ally, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, have stepped up their terror attacks since the uprising against Israeli occupation began a year ago. Hamas has claimed responsibility for the bombing of a Tel Aviv discothèque that killed 21 people and the attack on a Jerusalem pizzeria that killed 18.

Strength: The number of hard-core militants is not known, but it has thousands of active supporters.

Turf: Mainly the occupied territories -- the West Bank and Gaza Strip -- with forays into Israel proper.

Backers: Money comes from Iran, Palestinians overseas, and benefactors in Saudi Arabia and other conservative Arab states.

10. PALESTINE ISLAMIC JIHAD

The PIJ rejects any compromise with Israel and seeks instead to destroy the Jewish state. It has conducted suicide bombings in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and Israel.

Strength: Unknown.

Turf: Mostly in Israel and the territories, but also Jordan and Lebanon, with headquarters in Syria.

Backers: Iran and Syria provide money and other support.

Reply #: 326 anNy

[``Ali..i dont think i like you quite as much anymore...mrs.phool might be a stray but she has impeccable taste in men..her kittens are gorgeous..dont be insulting towards my pets next time``]

I apologize for insulting mrs phool although my intentions were good... I was just trying to find a life partner for rsexena. I will contact my neighborhood dog owners association now; we dont want him to remain single, do we?

[``That’s what the Health Ministry is shelling out, fortunately in rupees, for a project to map the size of the ‘‘average penis’’—whatever that means—of the Indian male.``]

Find the average length of indian okra. That will be a good approximation.

THIS IS FROM A INDIAN BOARD SULEKHA &INDO-LINK etc.etc.

DID ANY ONE ELSE BESIDE ME ,ANYONE ALASE MISS THIS NEWS OF INDIAS LATEST RESEARCH PROJECT BY NCERT,ICMR,& BANGLORE INST.OF SCIENCE WITH NUCLEAR SC.INSTITUTE OF SCIENCE CALCUTTA?

ANY OF PAKISTANI FRIENDSBEING NEAR TO GUJRAT,JULLUNDAR AMRITSAR HEAR THIS?

Read about the latest science in India - Al Laura.

Health Ministry to study the Indian penis, region by region; says this will shrink

condom co *ck-ups, show the huge diversity of the Indian organ

SREELATHA MENON

NEW DELHI, SEPTEMBER 28: WILL war break out in the next few days? Have

the Americans entered Afghanistan? Does the Indian penis differ in size as you

go north to south, east to west?

For many, the last may not be a millon-dollar question right now but for the

Government, it’s at least an 11-lakh one. That’s what the Health Ministry is

shelling out, fortunately in rupees, for a project to map the size of the ‘‘average

penis’’—whatever that means—of the Indian male.

Its hypothesis: More and more condoms are getting torn, the population is

rising. And the long and short of it is that all condoms are of the same size

when all penises are not. So what is needed is ‘‘comprehensive national

baseline data.’’

N C Saxena, head of reproductive biology at the Indian Council of Medical

Research—the institution coordinating the project—says that once we know the

‘‘length and width of the male organ in different parts of the country,’’ it could

help bring down the 15-20% failure rate of condoms because of ‘‘breakage or

spillage.’’

Because once the ‘‘variation in size in the different regions’’ is known, he says,

‘‘condoms can be tailored to the needs of different regions.’’

The recent National Family Health Survey puts condom use at three per cent

and vasectomy at two per cent, female sterilisation is 34% and 52% don’t use

any contraceptive method.

‘‘There are hardly any anthropometry studies except two or three in Africa and

Europe, which proved that there is a huge variation in size. At present we go by

the international specification as provided by the World Health Organisation and

the International Standards Organisation which can hardly be the same as what

national or regional specifics are,’’ says R S Sharma the ICMR scientist in

charge of the project. He says that WHO had in 1992, asked nations to have

their own specific data.

‘‘The collection of data will be a scientific process in which the length and width

would be recorded in a digital camera at the time of full erection,’’ says Sharma.

The proposal made by the ICMR was approved by the Health Ministry this year.

Says A R Nanda, Secretary, Family Welfare: ‘‘The ministry is fully supportive of

the project.’’ Work began in July with scientists procuring a digital camera. ‘‘We

are now preparing a software that will translate pictures automatically into

measurements of width and length,’’ Sharma said.

While All India Institute of Medical Sciences and KEM, Mumbai have already

agreed to be part of the study, the five other centres in Assam, Bihar, Orissa,

Chennai and Punjab are being identified. Scientists said the study was originally

meant to cover 16 centres across the country but lack of funds forced the ICMR

to confine it to seven states. ‘‘We hope it will be representative enough,’’ said a

scientist.

Each centre will identify 300 volunteers, mainly relatives of patients admitted

there and the delicate task will begin in January. The report on the diversity of

the Indian penis will be ready by the end of next year, says the ICMR. The

nation waits.

Rangela

Apparently the Chowk goblins ate up my post celebrating the re-entry of the one and only binifer.

Here goes:

Welcome back! It is a pleasure to have you with us again.

re: Ali #322

Has heera mandi shut down? Or are you out of money? Or did they throw you out? Which is it? Tell us the source of your sexual frustration...you seem to get a tent in your shalwar the second you notice any male-female interaction on Chowk.

anNy,

i suggest you change mrs. phool`s name to nymphobilli. ;) what kind of a billi-owner are you, with no control over your billi`s loose behavior. i feel sorry for all those billas out there who have fallen prey to your billi`s lust.

poor things.

by the way, that remark to ali was hilarious.

about KFC, I haven`t had the zinger yet, plain old fried chicken say fursat nahi milti.

anNy,

i suggest you change mrs. phool`s name to nymphobilli. ;) what kind of a billi-owner are you, with no control over your billi`s loose behavior. i feel sorry for all those billas out there who have fallen prey to your billi`s lust.

poor things.

by the way, that remark to ali was hilarious.

about KFC, I haven`t had the zinger yet, plain old fried chicken say fursat nahi milti.

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subroootsy:

aap kahan sae ho?

aunty binifer:

binifer jaanie...you have some cheek..merae ghar mae ghuss kar, merae pc par baith kar, merae pringles khaatae hoae merae baarae mae jhoot boltee ho....i NEVER stole your lunch...i only ate it because you would get into trouble with your ma if you didnt finish it...and that was in play school aunty manhoos, not school...also, while you told everybody and their nani about my daily routine, you forgot to mention how you sit and eat away with a ciggy stuck in your face while i workout like a dog, next door

uloo kee pathee

:P

scout:

binifer jhootii hae...kabhi yaqeen mat karna...and sweets i DO have the same problem...if i dont workout for a few days, my hips too start to er..expand? in the wrong directions :) my metabolism is just as screwed as all of womankinds and if i werent to run and jump and exercise like i were possessed, id too blow up in 3 days `especially` considering the amount of food i eat...(my doctors are convinced there are keerae and assorted repitiles in my tummy, but to date noting has been found)

p.s: you mention kfc..have you had the zinger here? if thats not jannat i dont know what is

hey all, humaree anNY , key khaney peh nazar na lagaein ...

anNY kee aur humaree dostee bahut puraani hai, aur kiyon anNY dastarkhan peh shuru hwee thee .. yaad hai ? these days , what i would`nt do yo get my hands on a chilled glass of `vimto `.

love ,

sa:)

Ali:

``please clarify if your billi has a husband or a boyfriend. If not, please check and report back if she will accept chowk`s resident billi-khor, rsexena, as her life partner?``

Ali..i dont think i like you quite as much anymore...mrs.phool might be a stray but she has impeccable taste in men..her kittens are gorgeous..dont be insulting towards my pets next time

Zahra:

``do you have a real billi? What color? Does it stay outside or inside ? Were you serious about the cat? Or you were kidding? Please Clarify.``

really zahra..ofcourse i have a real cat..er..actually i have quite a few but never mind that now....mrs.phool is a bit of a trouble maker..she goes and gets herself pregnant every few days (my kid brother calls her `perpetually haamla`) and then its so difficult parting with those little fury jhanglee bachaaz she has...theres a little boy in a house few streets away who takes the kittens and sometimes comes plays with them at home when theyre very young (i prefer to see them atleast 3 months old before giving them off) mrs.phool isnt any gorgeous persian cat to answer your question..she`s a regular stray..white with 2 brown patches..and she stays outside :( my mum throws a fit if she even goes near the kitchen and makes me shower every single time i play with her...:(.if youre ever in town and want billi ka bachaaz or even to play with some, please let me know..