Explaining it to an American Friend

ISLAMIC EVIDENCE,

Many are asking for evidence about the role of osama. But what kind of evidence will be acceptable to the islamic system, woemen are a no no, how about kafirs, their evidence against a muslim is not valid at all, and need to be corraborated by three muslims.

Scout #122,

Sigh. I guess you have not learnt anything from the ongoing turmoil in Pakistan. That Jehadis can not be expected to focus on one adversary. Promoting freedom fighters is what landed Pakistan in this mess in the first place and you are still harping about freedom fighters.

What will it take to beat some sense into you Pakistanis. Complete disintegration of Pakistan. I am sure even then you won`t learn.

ali 1

Lay off what you sulla katua bhenchod...You lay off against us or you`ll be selling pork chops in in Islamabad, right outside Faisal Mosque

saminashah #125

....... i guess you and i must have been watching a different version of mightline last night ..... i thought that for once ted koppel did a pretty good job of keeping his silly opinions to himself and the muslim panel was able to get their message across very clearly ... but i guess when you start with the deep conviction that the whole world is against you and see little zionist ghosts lurking in the shadows everywhere, it is hard to give the devil his due ......

....... there is no question that there was, and still is, a lot of misplaced bias in the media against the stereotypical muslim - and we don`t help ourselves by trotting out turnbaned thugs on television - but i do believe that the media has done an exceptionally good job of presenting the ``moderate muslim`` point of view ......... personally, i think ``moderate-muslim`` is a silly obfuscation in itself, but that is another story for another time .........

..... over the past week the local and national media has bombarded us with commentary and opinions from all types of muslims - incoherent babbling imams parroting silly verses from the koran, moon-faced convent students whining about why they get dirty looks from ``fellow americans``, articulate black muslims making eloquent and convincing arguments , and guys like james zoghby who can calm down the most rabid redneck from alabama ........ unfortunately, a number of our spokesmen, some of whome i know personally, should have kept their mouths shut instead of making a fools out of themselves with their clever attempts at convoluted sophistry ........ reminded me of chowk`s own looney-toones like urstruly and professor hobbs ........

...... where was i ? ....i do believe that by and large the media has done well to present a balanced view ...what is more important is that the american people have done even better - they have lived up to the ideals of tolerance and democracy that this great nation stands for .....a muslim is still safer here than in the streets of peshawar or karachi ......

...last night i was at another friday-night feeding frenzy with twenty or more muslim families gathered at the sprawling suburban home of a ``poor`` immigrant with only two mercedes ......after consuming the biryani and thanking allah for his bounties by lining up in ritual prayer, the men-folk proceeded to gripe about how ``they`` had brought down the wtc upon themselves because of ``their`` misguide foregin policy and now how ``we`` were being harassed by bubba .......they narrated some horror stories of ``our`` women being molested by ``them`` in new jersey and talked about how ``their`` city council wouldn`t let ``us`` raise the minaret by another six feet ......someone even said that the attack on the pentagon wasn`t as bad as the one on the wtc and i almost choked on the ras-malai ...... i objected, ``they`` politely listened and then resumed complaining about how ``their`` residency programs discriminated against foreign-qualified surgeons .......i had ``them`` move a lexus and a land-rover and went home to have a long overdue drink and listen to ``our`` ted koppel interview ``them`` on ``our`` television ...........

saminashah #125 ``watched the sobfest telethon for WTC victims`` So, you are offended by the grieving for the thousands of poor people who were killed in this terrible manner? I thought you had more decency than that.

As for the self-indulgent ``we are being victimized`` tone of your note, shame on you for not appreciating the great lengths that public figures from Bush on down to schoolteachers have gone to reassure muslims as well as the manner in which ordinary Americans (neighbors, co-workers, fellow students) have gone to ensure muslims do no feel out of place. People like you are never satisfied, and God Himself ultimately gives shameless people like you the treatment they deserve.

Hamid,

Clearly the American media has done a better job than it has in the past; remember, I was a schoolgirl when my brother and I were receiving our lumps(lots o`hostility) for being muslim during the Arab-Israeli war, and the Iran hostage situation and there were no voices concerned about us or any differing viewpoint. My purpose is not to whine about our experiences, but to let you know that I know things have changed from my subjective perspective. Part of being a progressive American is being able to improve our institutions, na? My own work involves working with young adults from immigrant and working class famillies, really the immigrant communities that most middle class Muslims and South Asians as many Americans, dont care to talk to or think about. I am about making linkages and providing a supportive enviroment. But I am not interested in self aggrandizement, so letme stop there.

If you are not aware of where I stand viz Israel, I support its existence; however we cannot deny that it`s implementation of Zionism is a disturbing reality-religion has very little meaning me. Similarly globalization-my progressive media source allows me regularly to hear the voices and tears,of women who get paid 47 cents for a shirt that is sold for 47 dollars here. So, no offence, I think Ted and his buds have a long way to go. If you have access to it, check out ``CounterSpin`` a show put out by the renown Fairness and Accuracy in the Media group. They take this to high art. Btw, your posts continue to be well written, if not a little unecessarily polarizing.

Do you remember how many times the theme of US foreign policy viz Iraq, Palestine was brought up on Nightline? Was it ever followed through clearly by any of the journalists? No, it was dismissed. We, all of us, all races, religions have a chance to expect our media to give us historically contextualized, responsible reporting.

With all due respect, being an American to me means working in this country to respect its citizens and the citizens of the world. I will not allow anyone to take that duty from me.

Tahmed

Yes, perhaps `sobfest` was a little irreverant. I watched the whole thing and found much of it moving.I fell asleep last night thinking about the people who jumped to their deaths. My husband points out clearly what a hero Muhammad Ali is in terms of fighting for his principles, my husband who had worked in the relief effort since Wednesday. I apologize if my comments sounded flip; sometimes I need to lighten up otherwise I get very very tired. So enough shame on me, ok?

Hamid,

Clearly the American media has done a better job than it has in the past; remember, I was a schoolgirl when my brother and I were receiving our lumps(lots o`hostility) for being muslim during the Arab-Israeli war, and the Iran hostage situation and there were no voices concerned about us or any differing viewpoint. My purpose is not to whine about our experiences, but to let you know that I know things have changed from my subjective perspective. Part of being a progressive American is being able to improve our institutions, na? My own work involves working with young adults from immigrant and working class famillies, really the immigrant communities that most middle class Muslims and South Asians as many Americans, dont care to talk to or think about. I am about making linkages and providing a supportive enviroment. But I am not interested in self aggrandizement, so letme stop there.

If you are not aware of where I stand viz Israel, I support its existence; however we cannot deny that it`s implementation of Zionism is a disturbing reality-religion has very little meaning me. Similarly globalization-my progressive media source allows me regularly to hear the voices and tears,of women who get paid 47 cents for a shirt that is sold for 47 dollars here. So, no offence, I think Ted and his buds have a long way to go. If you have access to it, check out ``CounterSpin`` a show put out by the renown Fairness and Accuracy in the Media group. They take this to high art. Btw, your posts continue to be well written, if not a little unecessarily polarizing.

Do you remember how many times the theme of US foreign policy viz Iraq, Palestine was brought up on Nightline? Was it ever followed through clearly by any of the journalists? No, it was dismissed. We, all of us, all races, religions have a chance to expect our media to give us historically contextualized, responsible reporting.

With all due respect, being an American to me means working in this country to respect its citizens and the citizens of the world. I will not allow anyone to take that duty from me.

Tahmed

Yes, perhaps `sobfest` was a little irreverant. I watched the whole thing and found much of it moving.I fell asleep last night thinking about the people who jumped to their deaths. My husband points out clearly what a hero Muhammad Ali is in terms of fighting for his principles, my husband who had worked in the relief effort since Wednesday. I apologize if my comments sounded flip; sometimes I need to lighten up otherwise I get very very tired. So enough shame on me, ok?

REF: Reply # 136 Stuka

[``sulla katua bhenchod``]

Stuka, there is some truth in what you say, since I think of all khatri women as my sisters.

So there... be respectful now.... don`t you know the privileges of mamooN in your society?

REF: Reply # 136 Stuka

[``sulla katua bhenchod``]

Stuka, there is some truth in what you say, since I think of all khatri women as my sisters.

So there... be respectful now.... don`t you know the privileges of mamooN in your society?

REF: # 117

[``Encourage`` and if possible ``facilitate`` the Islamists to go fight in Afghanistan. And don`t let them sneak back.]

Actually, the initial thought was to push them into India but they would have (like always) kicked the already quivering Hindoo arses to pulp and returned. And we want these idiots out for good.

Gowardhan:

I have two questions for you:

Q- How come you have so much time?

Have you been laid off and overstaying on your H1B?

Q- Where do you get your incredible hatred of Pakistan from?

This is a rehtorical question. Of course you share this trait with the rest of dhoti clads.

Considering the sick individual that you are, has the dept. of social services ever recommended putting your daughters in foster care? I heard Curtis Dean Anderson is looking... they will be safer with him then they are with you.

Jay :

can you please explain to me why there have been close to 70,00 killings, taking 10,000-20,000 away for the last decade that jihadi may have been coming in. What exactly was happening in kashmir before the 90`s? Are you going to tell me that the indian army had not been commiting murder?

Please do explain.

Tahmed,

Actually, I had some additional thoughts:

Grieving is a process that takes different manifestations for different people. As witnessed on Chowk and in this country, some people get angry, others sad, some more solicitious, others intellectualize, some become depressed, others seek distractions, and some need instant gratification through retailiation, tasteless jokes, or being helpful in orer to gain some relief, or arguing with Chowkwallahs.

What I am trying to say in a loving way is, please dont tell people how they are allowed to express their feelings-trust me, everyone here is devasted by this. All our reactions are part of a process, and we dont get any closer to each other by drawing lines of propriety. This is pretty much why I have kept out of the fray during the usual Indo-Pak skirmishes on the message boards. Ultimately, what we say reflects our process-none is the better, its just our respective processes. I have faith in everyone who participates on Chowk. Mostly.

Um, the part about God deciding if I go upstairs or downstairs? Thanks for the concern...

Saminashah:

I am glad I live in canada where the media is though not perfect but a lot more objective then American Media. I am surprised that on the American stations there has been no discussion on foreign policies. People are blinded by the ``freedom`` speech of the President. God when are these people gonna come out of slumber.

I am glad I live in canada, where again you have people who do discriminate and beat up muslims and sikhs, but not as much as in America. I am glad this country has more tolerance.

Hamidm:

And I always thought that you could be whom ever you wanted to be in america. Wasnt it the ``land of opportunity`` with ``freedom of speech`` giving people ``a right to live without being discriminated``? Or maybe I was mistaken.

MaheshG #135,

Yes, you guys know it all. Is that what you want to hear? Why can`t a group of people try to gain freedom in their own land? Set your political agendas aside, and answer that.