Islams Challenge

MaheshG #529,

Oh I forgot to add, go search for Suxena and company`s anti-Islamic anti-Muslim posts yourself. They`ll be easy to find.

They`ll probably admit to them themselves, the baighairat folks that they are.

imbecile Suxena,

so why don`t you sell your germ infested pretzel stand and go join the Indian army which you so vehemently support? no no, better yet, go to Isreal and wash their behinds. go kill some stone throwing Palestinian children with guns, which I know you fantasize about doing.

MaheshG,

I was talking about mass genocide commited by Muslims against OTHER religions.

But anyway, regarding your posts about Kashmir, I`m not going to repeat myself and answer them.

You`re the one who started this whole Kashmir discussion out of the blue with your instigating insinuations and questions. I think you have nothing better to do with your time so I`ll leave you to do it alone.

Next time don`t ask me controversial and hateful questions if you`re not willing to answer some of mine. Kapeesh? Bub-bye

Re: fight against terrorism

Guys,

I feel that while Mushy may have done a lot of wrong things in aiding and abetting militants across the border in Kashmir, if he has now taken a clear stand to wipe out terrorism from Pakistan, it is commendable and everyone from India needs to support it. I cannot shudder to think what might happen if Musharraf`s govt falls and Pakistan is taken over by fundoos. Will India watch silently if this happens. This was the question that was asked of Jim Hogland of Washington Post in a discussion on CNBC. He said India would strike against the nuclear installations including the militant camps in Kashmir many of which are run by OBL`s men and that may be in US`s interest. William Safire of New York Times intervened saying that Musharraf`s hold is strong and he is unlikely to be overthrown. This was reassuring indeed.

Sridhar

Re: The noose tightens on the terrorist outfits.

This is from the TOI. The Url:

``http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=1319643296``.

``US to turn heat on Lashkar, Jaish



CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK



ASHINGTON: The Bush administration will turn the heat on more terrorist groups, including those based in Pakistan and operating in Jammu and Kashmir. The list is likely to include Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jaish e-Mohammed.

The White House is expected to issue an executive order putting a financial squeeze on these groups in the next couple of days, according to sources. Separately, the State Department is also finalising its Foreign Terrorist Organisation list.

Administration officials said while the Pakistan-based terrorist groups were almost certain to be named in the White House executive order, their inclusion in the State Department’s FTO list was uncertain. This was because of the exacting criteria the department needed to meet before it named the organisations so as to pre-empt a legal challenge, they explained.

One such organisation which has been named and which has challenged its designation as a terrorist group is LTTE.

While the FTO designation is a long-drawn inter-agency process coordinated by the State Department’s Office of Counter-terrorism that has to conform to stringent US laws, the White House crack down is a different matter. It comes in the form of an executive order based on a recommendations from the Director of the Department of the Treasury`s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC).

New Delhi has for a long time chafed at what it sees as the State Department’s reluctance to designate Pakistan-based outfits such as Lashkar and Jaish as FTOs. The Indian government hasn’t been entirely convinced that the process is as difficult as it is being made out.

The State Department had come within sniffing distance of nailing Lashkar-e-Taiba as a FTO last year, when changes in the administration put a halt to it. At least one key official in the Clinton administration was said to be unhappy at the poor intelligence inputs and cooperation he received in his efforts to tighten the screws on Pak-based organisations.

Indian officials are anticipating the administration going after groups other than al-Qaeda following a strong case made by External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh with top US officials to the effect that these organisations mutate rapidly across geographical borders but come from a common source.

The officials say now that as an instrument to control the offshore movement of financial assets and funding, the White House order is probably more effective than an FTO designation which carried no punitive measures.

The Bush administration’s move comes amid increasing criticism from many quarters that it is obsessively focused on al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden to the exclusion of all other outfits. There is also a growing realisation among US analysts and commentators now about Pakistan’s complicity in terrorism despite the administration’s effort to manufacture consent in the interest of what some officials suggest is a short-term, event-specific alliance.

``You would think the radical Islamic guerrillas who claimed responsibility for Monday`s attack -- the Pakistani-based Jaish-e-Muhammed group -- might deserve to be at least called terrorists. India implored the United States to put the group on its terrorist list for earlier outrages. But Washington declined out of fear that such action would undermine the regime of Gen. Pervez Musharraf and complicate US diplomatic goals,`` Washington Post columnist Jim Hoagland wrote on Wesnesday.

``This is diplomacy without vision and without the roots needed for a long, difficult struggle against terrorism. It is delusional to think that the United States can reform the Musharraf regime or elements in the Taliban regime in neighboring Afghanistan into responsible partners to fight terrorism,`` he added.

Similar doubts were raised by New York Times’ William Safire who said ``the trouble with seeking to build a grand intelligence coalition is that too often those willing to rat on Terrorist A are harborers of Terrorist B at home and blackmailees of Terrorist C abroad.``

``President Bush`s grand spook strategy may be to buy a little from each source and them zap `em all, but that`s too simple by half...Over all, are we buying Phase I`s retribution against one terrorist gang with a promise of no Phase II protective strikes against a terrorist nation?`` he asked.``

Sridhar

Re:Reply #: 520

scout

Your post does not deserve a reply. It is a repetition of what many Pakis in this forum have been saying ad nauseum. So, i am not going to give a word to word reply. May be your rulers need to be taught a lesson by the world community. This is actually beginning to happen. See my last post linking Kashmiri terrorists involved in Air India hijacking to Kandahar and the World Trade Ctr carnage.

Sridhar

Re: Major setback for Pakistani rulers` Kashmir jehad policy

Guys,

Just saw it on C.N.N. US has accepted the evidence linking Kandahar linking of IA plane and the September 11 carnage as, in their own words, ``strong``. Nirupama Rao and the pilot of the plane Devi Sharan were on T.V. Jaish-e-mohammad may next be targetted by US next. India has asked for extradition of Maulana Masood Azhar and others. The article is titled ``US sees link between IA hijack and terror attacks``.

Read the article at:

``http://www.timesofindia.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=1875083696``.

Excerpts:

1. ``US investigators probing the September 11 carnage have established a link between the Pakistan-based terrorists who hijacked an Indian Airlines flight in 1999 and the perpetrators of multiple air-crashes that killed some 5000 people, CNN is reporting``.

2. ``Unnamed government officials told the network that Mustafa Mohammed Ahmed, who wired $ 100,000 from Pakistan to suspected hijacking ringleader Mohammed Atta, is an alias for Shiek Syed, one of three prisoners whose release was demanded by the hijackers of the IA plane which was flown to Kandahar``.

3. ``Following the exchange, the three prisoners and the five hijackers drive across the border into Pakistan, where, Indian officials say, they were received and dispersed by operatives of the Pakistan intelligence service ISI``.

4. ``Syed was widely recognized as the leader of an al-Qaeda-affiliated Islamic militant group known as Harkat-ul-Muhahedin, of which Jaish is an offspring. He was educated at the London School of Economics and Indian intelligence officials have told their US counterparts that he was last seen about six months ago at a bookshop in Islamabad``.

5. ``But Washington has evidently confirmed the Indian version linking the two. Not only did Syed Sheik wire $100,000 to Mohammed Atta in Florida for the suicide mission in America, but some of the 19 terrorists involved in the US mission also wired back the remainder of the money back to Sheik in a Gulf country. Sheik is reported to have since returned to Pakistan``.

Pakistan`s complicity is clear. As expected, the Paki authorities are denying that these are terrorists and trying to differentiate terrorists in Kashmir and Palestine from the rest. This attempt is pathetic to say the least.

Sridhar

. I don`t defend Urstruly or Ali or YLH when they`re uttering misguided hatred against Hindus.

I`m sorry I have to show my ugly mug here. As far as I know, YLH hasn`t said anything bad against Hindus. Indians yes, specifically Hindus, I don`t think so. Again, before someone digs up an old cut and paste of YLH to prove me wrong, one can say things under provocation that one does not mean. It`s definitely not a regular pattern from YLH, unlike the other 2 morons he`s had the misfortune to be listed with.

A reality check for Pakis deluding and frothing over Kashmir.

Face it, Kashmir will be in India for eternity..if it is not, you can be assured there was nuclear war and Pakistan no longer exists and neither do a few Indian states (including Kashmir). No one forces a nuclear country to do anything ... those tests in 1998 have frozen the status quo forever.

From your very own newspaper:

``And yet Kashmir is still, 53 years on, firmly in Indian control. It can now be asserted that following the thoughtless and rather emotional decision to go nuclear, the old India-Pakistan dispute over J&K State has been frozen dead. If the theory of deterrence works, neither side can take a military initiative in any situation (for fear of the other`s nukes). And if it fails, a war would break out and, on the basis of Pakistan`s oft-repeated doctrine of first strike, a nuclear exchange will ensue. That will render the Kashmir issue irrelevant, beside much else. The outlook for `Kashmir becoming Pakistan` is bleak.``

Re: bearded sputter

{{``Violence in Kashmir was started by terrorists or jehadis or freedom fighters whatever name you wish to label them by. Remember, no country will sit by and watch violence unleashed on its territories.``

Ok, so why not get to the root of the violence. Have you ever thought of that?}}

And who in blue hell are you to decide what India should and should not be doing in one of its states? Who invited your fat behind to meddle in India`s affairs?

The rest of your post might as well be a laughable cut-n-paste job from www.jehad-in-kashmir.com

Actually, I shouldn`t insult jehadis by calling you one. They are brave enough to go fight and get killed for their perverted beliefs...all you can do is sit here like a coward and push them to their deaths.

Scout, regarding RSaxena, Jay and Gowardhan please point out the posts where they have attacked Islam or Muslims. I will be glad to disown them immediately.

Attacking Pakistanis doesn`t count.

Hasan, you forgot the biggest genocide involving Muslim perpetrators. Pakistani army wiping out 3 million Bangladeshis.

Scout will conveniently forget such instances. Too grating on the consceince, I guess.

Scout,

``So basically, what you are saying is that as long as the Indian army is in the area, YOU will keep on raping innocent Kashmiri women and killing Kashmiri protesters with bullets?``

I don`t understand. According to you the Indian army is there to rape innocent Kashmiri women and to kill Kashmiri protesters with bullets. So, your question doesn`t compute.

Please clarify it for me. You want the Indian army to get out. How does killing innocent little school girls accomplish that?

Scout,

I thought Pakistan`s support to the Jehadis was the effect of India`s forceful occupation of Kashmir.

So, my question to you still stands. Are you trying to oust the Indian Army from Kashmir by killing innocent little school girls?

Scout

You have again said I hate muslims not Pakistan. My hatred of two things Pakistani is clear. Religious fanaticism and Pakistan. Religious fanatics raise religious armies. They justify horrible things simply saying crap like allah knows best. I hate Pakistan because despite what some say on Chowk, Pakistan has become the symbol of such fanaticism. It even teaches it children fanaticism telling them about muslims and nonmuslims as different human beings. I believe Pakistan has become an immoral idea, a scourge on humanity. If Pakistan ceased to exist today a large amount of lies, violence and immorality will end immediately.

I expect someone like hobbyty to take that and twist it to mean I hate Muslims. It is his job, his ambition to organize an all muslim army against non muslims specially in India. How do you explain your doing the same thing? Earlier once you said you will explain why I am against islam not Pakistan. Kindly do that.

shammi #505 when i referred to retired generals i was thinking of hamid gul. i agree that he quite likely had his sympathizers in the military. the end of the taliban does seem to be a matter of days away now, or maybe weeks. or at least let us hope so. and let us also hope that their soulmates in pakistan are also put out of business as well.

nasah #515,

I agree, so let`s not point fingers at one religious group. We`re all in this together.

As long as there is religious hatred within people, whether they be Christians, Jews, Muslims, or Hindus, there will be acts of violence in this world.

No one`s innocent.