Urstruly September 30, 2001
#731 Posted by mumbaikar on April 6, 2004 3:50:43 pm
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#730 Posted by mohajir on December 27, 2001 1:57:46 pm
Connecting terrorism`s dots
Arnaud de Borchgrave
Dec. 27, 2001
Washington Times
In an attempt to avoid embarrassing Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, and to pre-empt any Indian campaign to extend the war against terrorism to cover terrorist training camps in Pakistan, the White House announced Dec. 20 it was blocking the assets of Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) which it described as ``a Kashmiri terrorist organization that has conducted a number of operations against Indian troops and civilian targets in Kashmir since 1993.``
That was once over very lightly. If truth be known, the facts behind LET are identical to Osama bin Laden`s al Qaeda`s organization. The terrorists are interchangeable between both organizations. They were all trained in al Qaeda`s camps and some of bin Laden`s Afghan Arabs have already found refuge among LET`s ranks in Kashmir. The White House`s new formulation calls LET ``a stateless sponsor of terrorism.`` But LET is also Pakistan-based and Pakistan-sanctioned.
LET`s ranks consist of Pakistanis, Afghans, and Arabs led by Pakistani cadres. Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence agency oversees LET`s terrorist operations. Headquartered at Muridke outside Lahore, LET holds annual conclaves that are attended by serving and retired officers of ISI and the regular army, political leaders, and retired scientists of Pakistan`s nuclear establishment. LET`s terrorists are ``freedom fighters`` dedicated to ``the liberation of Indian-occupied Kashmir.`` Its political cover is called Marka-ud-Dawa-wal-Irshad (MDI), a fiercely anti-U.S. pseudo-religious, extremist organization.
LET`s last big meeting was held in Muridke April 13-15 and was attended by retired Gen. Hameed Gul, a former head of ISI and currently ``strategic adviser`` to Pakistan`s extremist religious parties; Retired Gen. Javed Nasir, another former ISI director general; Abdul Qadir Khan, the father of Pakistan`s nuclear bomb; Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, formerly with the Atomic Energy Commission and recently detained at the request of the U.S. for questioning about his meetings with Osama Bin Laden. The conference passed a resolution calling on its ``freedom fighters`` to capture Hindu temples, destroy the idols and hoist the flag of Islam on them.
ISI was tasked with ensuring that no journalists gained access to the meeting. But some did. The News reported on April 22 that LET ``operates six private military training camps in Pakistan and Kashmir where several thousand are given both military and religious education.`` The newspaper also reported that LET runs 2,200 recruiting offices across Pakistan and some two dozen ``launching camps along the Line of Control [LOC] in Kashmir,`` which makes it ``the biggest jihadi [holy warrior] network in Pakistan.``
No militant training center in Pakistan can operate without the consent of the army, now in power, and ISI, a state within a state whose chief reports only to Mr. Musharraf. Yet the government continues to be in a state of deep denial. Presidential spokesman Gen. Rashid Quereshi says, ``No group operating in Kashmir has any base in Pakistan.``
Mr. Musharraf is riding a terrorist tiger and is having trouble dismounting. Last May 18, Najam Sethi, the editor of ``Friday Times,`` an authoritative weekly journal, summed up the president`s dilemma: ``The Musharraf model seeks to covertly ally with the jihadi groups while overtly keeping the mainstream religious parties out of the power loop. This is to enhance and sustain its covert external agenda, while internally maintaining an overtly moderate anti-fundamentalist stance for the comfort of the international community whose economic support is critical to Pakistan`s financial viability.``
The terrorist attack against the Indian Parliament Dec. 13 was almost certainly the work of Jaish-e-Mohammed (Soldiers of the Prophet), another Pakistan-based terrorist organization. This writer found its slogans painted in towns and villages throughout the Pakistani tribal belt last week, to wit: ``Jaish-e-Mohammed and al Qaeda are Bubbling Blood Brothers`` and ``For Commando Training, Contact Jaish-e-Mohammed.`` The motive for the attack was most probably an attempt to disrupt the budding U.S.-Pakistani alliance and isolate Mr. Musharraf.
After ditching Taliban, it becomes increasingly harder for Mr. Musharraf to crack down on those who would Talibanize Pakistan. In fact, he released from detention the No. 1 religious extremist firebrand, Fazrul Rehman.
Mr. Musharraf is now caught between a rock and four hard places — Afghanistan where the anti-Pakistani, pro-Indian Northern Alliance holds the key government positions in the new coalition under Hamid Karzai; a hostile India on the edge of retaliatory action; a disloyal ISI; and a belligerent extremist clergy.
Despite the appointment of a Musharraf loyalist as the new head of ISI when U.S. bombing started last October, the powerful agency has not been responding to the president`s pro-American policies. One regional ISI general even went so far as to rattle tribal chiefs by telling them Pakistan would be next in America`s crosshairs after the defeat of Taliban. The secret organization continues to undermine him at every turn. The country`s principal political leaders are fearful of ISI. They draw the initials with their fingers in the air when the subject comes out lest they be heard by ubiquitous bugs. And they say nothing short of a top-to-bottom reform of ISI, followed by accountability to a yet-to-be-created national security council of civilian and military leaders, will bring the agency back to its proper place in the body politic.
The Taliban infrastructure in Pakistan emerged unscathed from Taliban`s defeat in Afghanistan. While ISI is officially cooperating with the U.S. in hunting down Taliban`s deposed leaders, senior Taliban officials are now resting comfortably in their second homes in Quetta and Peshawar, the two frontier towns where they had parked their families when the bombing started. One has even given an interview to a British newspaper. Another has given a ``religious lecture`` at the madrassa — the ``University for the Education of Truth`` — where he graduated in the town of Khattak. ISI is doubtless aware of these activities. But is Mr. Musharraf?
Belatedly, over the Christmas weekend, Mr. Musharraf decided to freeze the accounts of LET and Umma Tamee-e-Nau (UTN), the group the U.S. believes passed nuclear weapons data to Osama bin Laden. The LET chief then resigned. It is to be hoped that a thorough housecleaning of ISI is next on Mr. Musharraf`s must-do list as he returns from a weeklong state visit to China.
Arnaud de Borchgrave is editor at large of The Washington Times and of United Press International
http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20011227-79790204.htm
Arnaud de Borchgrave
Dec. 27, 2001
Washington Times
In an attempt to avoid embarrassing Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, and to pre-empt any Indian campaign to extend the war against terrorism to cover terrorist training camps in Pakistan, the White House announced Dec. 20 it was blocking the assets of Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) which it described as ``a Kashmiri terrorist organization that has conducted a number of operations against Indian troops and civilian targets in Kashmir since 1993.``
That was once over very lightly. If truth be known, the facts behind LET are identical to Osama bin Laden`s al Qaeda`s organization. The terrorists are interchangeable between both organizations. They were all trained in al Qaeda`s camps and some of bin Laden`s Afghan Arabs have already found refuge among LET`s ranks in Kashmir. The White House`s new formulation calls LET ``a stateless sponsor of terrorism.`` But LET is also Pakistan-based and Pakistan-sanctioned.
LET`s ranks consist of Pakistanis, Afghans, and Arabs led by Pakistani cadres. Pakistan`s Inter-Services Intelligence agency oversees LET`s terrorist operations. Headquartered at Muridke outside Lahore, LET holds annual conclaves that are attended by serving and retired officers of ISI and the regular army, political leaders, and retired scientists of Pakistan`s nuclear establishment. LET`s terrorists are ``freedom fighters`` dedicated to ``the liberation of Indian-occupied Kashmir.`` Its political cover is called Marka-ud-Dawa-wal-Irshad (MDI), a fiercely anti-U.S. pseudo-religious, extremist organization.
LET`s last big meeting was held in Muridke April 13-15 and was attended by retired Gen. Hameed Gul, a former head of ISI and currently ``strategic adviser`` to Pakistan`s extremist religious parties; Retired Gen. Javed Nasir, another former ISI director general; Abdul Qadir Khan, the father of Pakistan`s nuclear bomb; Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, formerly with the Atomic Energy Commission and recently detained at the request of the U.S. for questioning about his meetings with Osama Bin Laden. The conference passed a resolution calling on its ``freedom fighters`` to capture Hindu temples, destroy the idols and hoist the flag of Islam on them.
ISI was tasked with ensuring that no journalists gained access to the meeting. But some did. The News reported on April 22 that LET ``operates six private military training camps in Pakistan and Kashmir where several thousand are given both military and religious education.`` The newspaper also reported that LET runs 2,200 recruiting offices across Pakistan and some two dozen ``launching camps along the Line of Control [LOC] in Kashmir,`` which makes it ``the biggest jihadi [holy warrior] network in Pakistan.``
No militant training center in Pakistan can operate without the consent of the army, now in power, and ISI, a state within a state whose chief reports only to Mr. Musharraf. Yet the government continues to be in a state of deep denial. Presidential spokesman Gen. Rashid Quereshi says, ``No group operating in Kashmir has any base in Pakistan.``
Mr. Musharraf is riding a terrorist tiger and is having trouble dismounting. Last May 18, Najam Sethi, the editor of ``Friday Times,`` an authoritative weekly journal, summed up the president`s dilemma: ``The Musharraf model seeks to covertly ally with the jihadi groups while overtly keeping the mainstream religious parties out of the power loop. This is to enhance and sustain its covert external agenda, while internally maintaining an overtly moderate anti-fundamentalist stance for the comfort of the international community whose economic support is critical to Pakistan`s financial viability.``
The terrorist attack against the Indian Parliament Dec. 13 was almost certainly the work of Jaish-e-Mohammed (Soldiers of the Prophet), another Pakistan-based terrorist organization. This writer found its slogans painted in towns and villages throughout the Pakistani tribal belt last week, to wit: ``Jaish-e-Mohammed and al Qaeda are Bubbling Blood Brothers`` and ``For Commando Training, Contact Jaish-e-Mohammed.`` The motive for the attack was most probably an attempt to disrupt the budding U.S.-Pakistani alliance and isolate Mr. Musharraf.
After ditching Taliban, it becomes increasingly harder for Mr. Musharraf to crack down on those who would Talibanize Pakistan. In fact, he released from detention the No. 1 religious extremist firebrand, Fazrul Rehman.
Mr. Musharraf is now caught between a rock and four hard places — Afghanistan where the anti-Pakistani, pro-Indian Northern Alliance holds the key government positions in the new coalition under Hamid Karzai; a hostile India on the edge of retaliatory action; a disloyal ISI; and a belligerent extremist clergy.
Despite the appointment of a Musharraf loyalist as the new head of ISI when U.S. bombing started last October, the powerful agency has not been responding to the president`s pro-American policies. One regional ISI general even went so far as to rattle tribal chiefs by telling them Pakistan would be next in America`s crosshairs after the defeat of Taliban. The secret organization continues to undermine him at every turn. The country`s principal political leaders are fearful of ISI. They draw the initials with their fingers in the air when the subject comes out lest they be heard by ubiquitous bugs. And they say nothing short of a top-to-bottom reform of ISI, followed by accountability to a yet-to-be-created national security council of civilian and military leaders, will bring the agency back to its proper place in the body politic.
The Taliban infrastructure in Pakistan emerged unscathed from Taliban`s defeat in Afghanistan. While ISI is officially cooperating with the U.S. in hunting down Taliban`s deposed leaders, senior Taliban officials are now resting comfortably in their second homes in Quetta and Peshawar, the two frontier towns where they had parked their families when the bombing started. One has even given an interview to a British newspaper. Another has given a ``religious lecture`` at the madrassa — the ``University for the Education of Truth`` — where he graduated in the town of Khattak. ISI is doubtless aware of these activities. But is Mr. Musharraf?
Belatedly, over the Christmas weekend, Mr. Musharraf decided to freeze the accounts of LET and Umma Tamee-e-Nau (UTN), the group the U.S. believes passed nuclear weapons data to Osama bin Laden. The LET chief then resigned. It is to be hoped that a thorough housecleaning of ISI is next on Mr. Musharraf`s must-do list as he returns from a weeklong state visit to China.
Arnaud de Borchgrave is editor at large of The Washington Times and of United Press International
http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20011227-79790204.htm
#729 Posted by sarwar on November 28, 2001 9:41:00 pm
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#728 Posted by sarwar on October 30, 2001 12:15:21 pm
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#727 Posted by danfoster on October 26, 2001 12:39:24 am
My learned friend,
Let me tell you all about jihad:
There was a young Shiek named Osama;
His Pop`s courtesan was his Mama;
To cope he went far;
with the Mullah Omar;
To make the West pay for his trauma.
Religion is bunk.
Dan Foster
The Honest Men`s Club
Austin, TX
Let me tell you all about jihad:
There was a young Shiek named Osama;
His Pop`s courtesan was his Mama;
To cope he went far;
with the Mullah Omar;
To make the West pay for his trauma.
Religion is bunk.
Dan Foster
The Honest Men`s Club
Austin, TX
#726 Posted by subroto on October 22, 2001 1:03:38 pm
Re # 727 RDesikan
I am already detecting an anti-southern roachistani bias here. Are the so-called leaders listening?
Southern Rochistan bias? The management at la Bhoosalya feels pained that you think so, after all we do offer tempting southern dishes such as : Bhoosa Vada, Tomato & Bhoosa Rasam, Bhoosa Kara kari and Bhoosiyodharai. We do note the valid point you make about some of the dishes and are happy to inform our patrons that bhoosa masala dosa,medhu boosa vada and bhoosa avial will be on our menu soon. I do hope that gourmets like yourself will continue to help us in our quest to be the ultimate bhoosa dining experience. And on a happy note may I end by saying that Bhoosa Banarsi Paans are now available to our patrons at no extra charge.
On the role of heeng I believe that there are enough people on chowk quick to identify ``heeng oozers`` and may help you in the quest but here`s a link that may help :
www.hasmi.com/heeng.html
Jai Rochistan
Subroto
I am already detecting an anti-southern roachistani bias here. Are the so-called leaders listening?
Southern Rochistan bias? The management at la Bhoosalya feels pained that you think so, after all we do offer tempting southern dishes such as : Bhoosa Vada, Tomato & Bhoosa Rasam, Bhoosa Kara kari and Bhoosiyodharai. We do note the valid point you make about some of the dishes and are happy to inform our patrons that bhoosa masala dosa,medhu boosa vada and bhoosa avial will be on our menu soon. I do hope that gourmets like yourself will continue to help us in our quest to be the ultimate bhoosa dining experience. And on a happy note may I end by saying that Bhoosa Banarsi Paans are now available to our patrons at no extra charge.
On the role of heeng I believe that there are enough people on chowk quick to identify ``heeng oozers`` and may help you in the quest but here`s a link that may help :
www.hasmi.com/heeng.html
Jai Rochistan
Subroto
#725 Posted by subroto on October 22, 2001 1:02:57 am
Re Post 744: RSridhar
Sridhar,
Actually according to my leader I am from this planet (for some reason his green antennae is twitching furiously today - keeps mumbling something about ``blowing your cover...``).
However if you wish I can uncork the bigot in me and post a few rabid rants here.
Regards,
Subroto
PS : On your previous posts on Naipaul, may I suggest reading ``A House for Mr Biswas`` if you have not already done so. A fine work far removed from rants against declining civilizations and religions.
Sridhar,
Actually according to my leader I am from this planet (for some reason his green antennae is twitching furiously today - keeps mumbling something about ``blowing your cover...``).
However if you wish I can uncork the bigot in me and post a few rabid rants here.
Regards,
Subroto
PS : On your previous posts on Naipaul, may I suggest reading ``A House for Mr Biswas`` if you have not already done so. A fine work far removed from rants against declining civilizations and religions.
#724 Posted by Neptune on October 22, 2001 1:02:57 am
rsridhar #744
[Subroto #722
I got only one question for you. Which planet are you from? You sure don`t sound or write like you are from planet earth.]
C`mon now... It definitely is one of the few really funny pieces in the recent past in Chowk.
[Subroto #722
I got only one question for you. Which planet are you from? You sure don`t sound or write like you are from planet earth.]
C`mon now... It definitely is one of the few really funny pieces in the recent past in Chowk.
#723 Posted by rsridhar on October 20, 2001 4:02:35 pm
Re:Reply #: 722
Subroto,
I got only one question for you. Which planet are you from? You sure don`t sound or write like you are from planet earth.
Sridhar
Subroto,
I got only one question for you. Which planet are you from? You sure don`t sound or write like you are from planet earth.
Sridhar
#722 Posted by Arrested Develo on October 20, 2001 2:05:30 pm
hamidm #151 ``.....so what do you expect me to listen to on my morning commute `` I think you will have no trouble finding something better to listen to early morning than Howard Stern discussing the male sexual organ, while his girl Friday dutifully giggles.
#721 Posted by stuka on October 20, 2001 11:11:57 am
Sigalph:
I think Arrested Development is refering to Governer-General. I don`t know where he`s getting the Prime Minister stuff from.
I think Arrested Development is refering to Governer-General. I don`t know where he`s getting the Prime Minister stuff from.
#720 Posted by jay on October 20, 2001 4:28:26 am
Sarwari
``Kashmir is not a problem because India is secular and Pakistan is not. It is a consequence of ignoring the peoples will in Kashmir``.
That is interesting, so you seem to be unaware that kashmir is a jihadic border, there are many afghans, arabs and others infiltrating into kasmir to uphold the will of the kashmir people.
Now I understand that pakistan is country well know the world over as country that upholds the will of the people. Learn something about your country at least from chowk, at least from me, go and read the judgement of the lahore hogh court in upholding honour killing. Learn from me that the institutions of pakistan have no idea what so ever about the will of the people.
Go and read what is in the passport application form ahmadias, and try to understand what it means in terms of the will of the people.
Learn from me that sheria is the supreme law in pakistan, and that is why the jihadists are legal. Learn from me that the `sectarian` killings in karachi are not investigated, and no one arresyed because of the provisions of the sheria law.
Final lesson from me is that pakistan is an islamic country, and other members of the ummah has to be supported in the jiahadic mission and hence the killings in kashmir.
Kashmir is a problem in jihadic frontiers, there is no solving it, it can only be managed like malaria and other contagious deceases by vector control.
regards and best wishes.
jay
``Kashmir is not a problem because India is secular and Pakistan is not. It is a consequence of ignoring the peoples will in Kashmir``.
That is interesting, so you seem to be unaware that kashmir is a jihadic border, there are many afghans, arabs and others infiltrating into kasmir to uphold the will of the kashmir people.
Now I understand that pakistan is country well know the world over as country that upholds the will of the people. Learn something about your country at least from chowk, at least from me, go and read the judgement of the lahore hogh court in upholding honour killing. Learn from me that the institutions of pakistan have no idea what so ever about the will of the people.
Go and read what is in the passport application form ahmadias, and try to understand what it means in terms of the will of the people.
Learn from me that sheria is the supreme law in pakistan, and that is why the jihadists are legal. Learn from me that the `sectarian` killings in karachi are not investigated, and no one arresyed because of the provisions of the sheria law.
Final lesson from me is that pakistan is an islamic country, and other members of the ummah has to be supported in the jiahadic mission and hence the killings in kashmir.
Kashmir is a problem in jihadic frontiers, there is no solving it, it can only be managed like malaria and other contagious deceases by vector control.
regards and best wishes.
jay
#719 Posted by rsridhar on October 20, 2001 4:28:26 am
Re:Reply #: 728
Kafir k khan,
This is the most shameful and despicable act i have ever read or learned about. I am ashamed that such people exist in India and at least some of them are potential leaders of that country.
Sridhar
Kafir k khan,
This is the most shameful and despicable act i have ever read or learned about. I am ashamed that such people exist in India and at least some of them are potential leaders of that country.
Sridhar
#718 Posted by sigalph235 on October 20, 2001 4:28:26 am
re arrested development 736
``...he would not have kept both Governorship & prime Minister post to himself``
Your facts are certainly quite arrested developmentally. Mr Jinnah was never the Governor of anything nor Prime Minister of any country.
``...he would not have kept both Governorship & prime Minister post to himself``
Your facts are certainly quite arrested developmentally. Mr Jinnah was never the Governor of anything nor Prime Minister of any country.
#717 Posted by Studebaker on October 20, 2001 4:28:26 am
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#716 Posted by mannyd on October 19, 2001 6:56:21 pm
Ref Lajwanti $ 725:
``According to daily Pakistan a police officer ASI Shameem Gondal of Malka Hans had the habit of following a lady school teacher singing the mahiya songs of Mansoor Malangi loudly to seduce her into thinking of love. But the school teacher suddenly took off her burqa and started beating him up with her shoe. Other school girls accompanying her joined in and also beat him up with their shoes. After the beating it was discovered that one tooth of the thanedar ASI was broken but he was allowed to go only after he swore on a copy of the Quran and made the school teacher his sister.``
LOL. Now that is the Punjabiat I remember.
Thanks Lajwanti. Please say hello to Sudebaker et al.
``According to daily Pakistan a police officer ASI Shameem Gondal of Malka Hans had the habit of following a lady school teacher singing the mahiya songs of Mansoor Malangi loudly to seduce her into thinking of love. But the school teacher suddenly took off her burqa and started beating him up with her shoe. Other school girls accompanying her joined in and also beat him up with their shoes. After the beating it was discovered that one tooth of the thanedar ASI was broken but he was allowed to go only after he swore on a copy of the Quran and made the school teacher his sister.``
LOL. Now that is the Punjabiat I remember.
Thanks Lajwanti. Please say hello to Sudebaker et al.
Interact Index
Latest Interacts
- Salim_Chauhan: Sattar Sahib, I have one... Persecution of Religious Minorities
- sattar2: tahir (#223), You may... Persecution of Religious Minorities
- tahmed32: #245 Excellent post. One... Persecution of Religious Minorities
- Ras: To start the engine... Persecution of Religious Minorities
- Salim_Chauhan: Tahir #85 {"Chauhan sahib, Which... Mohajirs Are People Too
- tahir: Re: # 240 Dear 86, Which... Persecution of Religious Minorities
- tahir: Re: # 240 "Jeez Tahir... Persecution of Religious Minorities
- Urstruly: Re: # 239 sattar I... Persecution of Religious Minorities








reply to this interact
write a new interact
add to favorites
flag objectionable content