Jihad: Paradoxes and Defining Moments
Urstruly September 30, 2001
#601 Posted by PM on October 15, 2001 8:28:55 pm
re. Gowardhan #609
(this at the risk of graduating from `getting boring` to actually BEING boring, a la RSaxena...
Country I launches counter attack to thwart Operation O of Country P.
Country I goes further and launches it`s own Operation L, which country P is able to withstand.
Neitheir Country P nor Country I come away having gained anything.
Conclusion: well.. even a bonehead doesn`t need to be told this one.
btw, nobody said Country P won. Go see your optometrist! If that doesn`t help, try Shankar.
(this at the risk of graduating from `getting boring` to actually BEING boring, a la RSaxena...
Country I launches counter attack to thwart Operation O of Country P.
Country I goes further and launches it`s own Operation L, which country P is able to withstand.
Neitheir Country P nor Country I come away having gained anything.
Conclusion: well.. even a bonehead doesn`t need to be told this one.
btw, nobody said Country P won. Go see your optometrist! If that doesn`t help, try Shankar.
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#600 Posted by PM on October 15, 2001 8:28:55 pm
re. Reply #: 587
rsridhar
``While muslims all over the world have condemned the act on Sept 11, it pains me to say that most of them have done so with a rider, so to say. ``Yes, what OBL did was wrong but...``. This ``but`` is usually followed by the palestine problem. Some have even chipped in with the unsolved Kashmir problem.``
Unless you believe, as George Bush would have us all, that people are kinda born terrorists, that they and their terrorism have absolutely no history, you will will have to expect some `buts`. These riders do not necessarily justify an act, but certainly put it in some sort of a context that goes beyond simple conceptions of Good vs Evil (which, again, American leaders have been trying to sell us ever since the start of the Cold War. Other leaders too, but then, we don`t subscribe to their world views, so that is not an issue for us.
Incidentally, Ossama`s main gripe with the US is it`s prescence in the Holy lands-- its support of what he regards as an unholy leadership there and in other MidEast nations. The Palestinian issue is a close second.
You write: ``I see Palestine problem as a failure of American foreign policy. Why should innocent civilians from more than 50 countries pay with their lives as a result of that failure?``
The attack was on America. Casualties from other nations were incidental and probably not thought of by the terrorists. In any case, it is strange that you should bring in the question of other nationalities. (Innocent) Civilians are innocent civilians, period.
``In the past month, i have seen images of destruction wrought forth by a madman who justified his acts in the name of God.``
Not accurate. Perhaps you have bought into Bush`s rhetoric hook, line and sinker. The madman justified his acts in the name of revenge and as an ultimatum. Big difference.
Incidentally, I would like to hear your opinion on the bombing of Baghdad by another madman ostensibly to do away with yet another madman. In the end, 100,000 (that`s roughly 15 times 7,000, btw) civilians lost their lives while the second latter madman was allowed to end another 10,000 lives, as the first madman walked way with his economic interests secured. I suspect you will have an even more difficult time not attaching a `but` rider to this one. (here`s some help: ``BUT we didn`t have the spectacle of jets slamming into buildings, horrendous fireballs, people jumping off the 80th storey and crumbling skyscrapers all brought to us live in our living rooms in THAT human catastrophe. All we saw was some nighttime AAA fireworks, and demonstrations of (the one out of every 19) Cruise missiles that hit their targets in `surgical` strikes. And we heard that the war was not against the civilians, and believed it, even after news of the true extent ofthe damage became known. We still cracked jokes about how the ``Mother of all Wars`` turned out to be nothing but the Mother of all defeats.
Now on to Israel. You say that `the Palestinian problem is a failure of American foreign policy`, and suggest that diplomatic solutions be pressed for. Oh that the failure was merely one of diplomatic errors. When Israel marched into Lebanon in 1982, with their shiny new weapons acquired through generous Aid from the US, and knowing fully well that the US would not intervene, nay would support them, 16,500 Lebanese lost their lives futiley resisting them (that`s rougly two and a half times the Spet.11 death count). May those who identify with the Lebanese and have a common enemy in Israel not justifiably use this as another `but`, if not a justifiable `because`?
``I have also seen why they say America is the greatest democracy. America has tried to come to terms with this tragedy in a rational manner.``
Wait a minute.... Yes, if you`re talking about the aerage American on the street, yes, s/he shows a commendable degree of tolerance and willingness to forgo anger. None of this rationality, however, is to be seen in the decision to bomb Afghan cities because the Afghani government (repeat: government) is harbouring the alleged (again: alleged) mastermind of the Sep 11 attacks. Not all of us are able to rationalize the civilian loss of life as `inevitable`, since the bombings are far from inevitable, or even the last resort.
``America is trying to understand why there is so much hatred in some section of muslim population and it is doing it by teasing out the problem and discussing it (sometimes i feel they are overdoing it!).``
Americans (the `people`; not the State Department folks) are given to introspection, sometimes excessively, as you suggest. But I wonder how many are given the opportunity to properly introspect, without propaganda and misinformation streaming in from the idiot boxes (for eg. how many Americans know how many Iraqi civilian lives were lost in Desert Storm? and how many Kurds?)
``OBL says that unless Palestine problem is solved, US will face terrorism. His last warning included Kashmir also (courtesy ISI, i suppose).``
Oh please... know `milking` when you see it. You sound almsot as silly as the Bush and Blair administrations which now claim that his recent warning to Muslims and children to `stay out of tall buildings` etc. amounts to proof of his complicity!! Hello? The Jaish-e-Muhammed claimed responsibility for the attacks five weeks ago!
``The question then is: Can a terrorist act of a magnitude seen on Sept 11 in New York (or for that matter, any terrorist act) be justified by saying this should not have happened but then USA has neglected the Palestine problem. It is like saying that USA had it coming. ``
Sridhar, adding a ``but`` does not necessarily amount to a jsutification. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the US had *something * coming, but *this * was totally not on the cards, and that`s what keeps it terribly wrong.
``I have said in the past that terrorism as a means of addressing one`s grievance is wrong, be it LTTE or Kashmiri jehadists or any other. The reaction to violence is always more violence and innocent lives are usually lost. We have already seen US response. Today i saw on T.V how some innocent Afghani lives were lost due to a misdirected bomb-hit. This was inevitable. Roaches like OBL will actually try to take advantage of this.``
You are right... avenging terrorism with terrorism will not work in the long run.. and that is another reason why Sept 11 was totally wrong (stratgestically as well as morally).
``I suspect, Palestine is the name OBL is using to bring forth a reaction from muslims. I see that the silent majority who are supposed to be against OBL`s policies are doing nothing. Why do they not come out in large numbers and speak out against OBL and his acts of terrorism? Why does not Musharraf organise a large demonstration (100 fold stronger than any pro-Taliban protests we have seen so far)in favor of US-led coalition. He just cannot do it and i will explain why so.``
My views fully concur with yours on this. The reasons you put forward for Mushy`s inaction are ominously true, IMO, though there IS a lot more he could have done to at least keep Ossama from becoming a hero, if not prevent America from being the villian, in the eys of the masses. The electronic media could have been put to far better use to highlight the unIslamic nature of Ossama`s (alleged) actions.
``I have said in the past that terrorism as a means of addressing one`s grievance is wrong, be it LTTE or Kashmiri jehadists or any other. The reaction to violence is always more violence and innocent lives are usually lost. We have already seen US response. Today i saw on T.V how some innocent Afghani lives were lost due to a misdirected bomb-hit. This was inevitable. Roaches like OBL will actually try to take advantage of this.``
``...This may make Mushy`s condition precarious. If he is forced to use violence, he risks being overthrown. A fundoo may take over. There is no way to know how India and Israel may react if nuclear facilities fall into a fundoo`s hands. This has a potential to blow up into a major war.``
Rest assured the day the fundoos take over will be the day (or the day before, at the most) that US bomber level our Nuclear facilities. And that will be at least a few days before the fundoos would have been able to get down to working out the intiricacies of detonation. So chill!
``What should Mushy be doing then? While he is cleaning his house off all Taliban elements, he should be mending fences with India so that lines of communication are open and even if he falls we know that the nuclear facilities are safe.``
Sounds simple enough. I you somehow subtract all the decades of intese distrust and animus between the two nations, that is. :)
`` Do we see Musharraf making any conciliatory getures? I do not think so. He warned India to lay off initially. Then we hear that a suicide bomber (belonging to Jaish-e-Mohammed, a terrorist organisation that has its base in Pakistan) has rammed a car into J and K assembly killing a lot of civilians.``
Hey wait a minute... This could just as justifiably be seen as the autonmous operational nature of the J-i-M.
``India warns but does not react militarily to the attack on the assembly. Israel, in the same situation, would have bombarded all the training camps.``
Unfortunately, Israel does not have enemies with nukes to pose threats... or indeed with conventional weapons enough to pose an unsurmountable counter attack.
``... That is why it is so essential that Pakistan has a true people`s democracy which will show the Army its proper place and go about the business of mending fences with India. Kashmir problem can be addressed in a diplomatic manner.``
I wish I, or most/any Pakistani shared your optimism on this matter. it is at least encouraging to know that at least *some * Indians see the issue as a bilateral one.
rgds,
PM
rsridhar
``While muslims all over the world have condemned the act on Sept 11, it pains me to say that most of them have done so with a rider, so to say. ``Yes, what OBL did was wrong but...``. This ``but`` is usually followed by the palestine problem. Some have even chipped in with the unsolved Kashmir problem.``
Unless you believe, as George Bush would have us all, that people are kinda born terrorists, that they and their terrorism have absolutely no history, you will will have to expect some `buts`. These riders do not necessarily justify an act, but certainly put it in some sort of a context that goes beyond simple conceptions of Good vs Evil (which, again, American leaders have been trying to sell us ever since the start of the Cold War. Other leaders too, but then, we don`t subscribe to their world views, so that is not an issue for us.
Incidentally, Ossama`s main gripe with the US is it`s prescence in the Holy lands-- its support of what he regards as an unholy leadership there and in other MidEast nations. The Palestinian issue is a close second.
You write: ``I see Palestine problem as a failure of American foreign policy. Why should innocent civilians from more than 50 countries pay with their lives as a result of that failure?``
The attack was on America. Casualties from other nations were incidental and probably not thought of by the terrorists. In any case, it is strange that you should bring in the question of other nationalities. (Innocent) Civilians are innocent civilians, period.
``In the past month, i have seen images of destruction wrought forth by a madman who justified his acts in the name of God.``
Not accurate. Perhaps you have bought into Bush`s rhetoric hook, line and sinker. The madman justified his acts in the name of revenge and as an ultimatum. Big difference.
Incidentally, I would like to hear your opinion on the bombing of Baghdad by another madman ostensibly to do away with yet another madman. In the end, 100,000 (that`s roughly 15 times 7,000, btw) civilians lost their lives while the second latter madman was allowed to end another 10,000 lives, as the first madman walked way with his economic interests secured. I suspect you will have an even more difficult time not attaching a `but` rider to this one. (here`s some help: ``BUT we didn`t have the spectacle of jets slamming into buildings, horrendous fireballs, people jumping off the 80th storey and crumbling skyscrapers all brought to us live in our living rooms in THAT human catastrophe. All we saw was some nighttime AAA fireworks, and demonstrations of (the one out of every 19) Cruise missiles that hit their targets in `surgical` strikes. And we heard that the war was not against the civilians, and believed it, even after news of the true extent ofthe damage became known. We still cracked jokes about how the ``Mother of all Wars`` turned out to be nothing but the Mother of all defeats.
Now on to Israel. You say that `the Palestinian problem is a failure of American foreign policy`, and suggest that diplomatic solutions be pressed for. Oh that the failure was merely one of diplomatic errors. When Israel marched into Lebanon in 1982, with their shiny new weapons acquired through generous Aid from the US, and knowing fully well that the US would not intervene, nay would support them, 16,500 Lebanese lost their lives futiley resisting them (that`s rougly two and a half times the Spet.11 death count). May those who identify with the Lebanese and have a common enemy in Israel not justifiably use this as another `but`, if not a justifiable `because`?
``I have also seen why they say America is the greatest democracy. America has tried to come to terms with this tragedy in a rational manner.``
Wait a minute.... Yes, if you`re talking about the aerage American on the street, yes, s/he shows a commendable degree of tolerance and willingness to forgo anger. None of this rationality, however, is to be seen in the decision to bomb Afghan cities because the Afghani government (repeat: government) is harbouring the alleged (again: alleged) mastermind of the Sep 11 attacks. Not all of us are able to rationalize the civilian loss of life as `inevitable`, since the bombings are far from inevitable, or even the last resort.
``America is trying to understand why there is so much hatred in some section of muslim population and it is doing it by teasing out the problem and discussing it (sometimes i feel they are overdoing it!).``
Americans (the `people`; not the State Department folks) are given to introspection, sometimes excessively, as you suggest. But I wonder how many are given the opportunity to properly introspect, without propaganda and misinformation streaming in from the idiot boxes (for eg. how many Americans know how many Iraqi civilian lives were lost in Desert Storm? and how many Kurds?)
``OBL says that unless Palestine problem is solved, US will face terrorism. His last warning included Kashmir also (courtesy ISI, i suppose).``
Oh please... know `milking` when you see it. You sound almsot as silly as the Bush and Blair administrations which now claim that his recent warning to Muslims and children to `stay out of tall buildings` etc. amounts to proof of his complicity!! Hello? The Jaish-e-Muhammed claimed responsibility for the attacks five weeks ago!
``The question then is: Can a terrorist act of a magnitude seen on Sept 11 in New York (or for that matter, any terrorist act) be justified by saying this should not have happened but then USA has neglected the Palestine problem. It is like saying that USA had it coming. ``
Sridhar, adding a ``but`` does not necessarily amount to a jsutification. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the US had *something * coming, but *this * was totally not on the cards, and that`s what keeps it terribly wrong.
``I have said in the past that terrorism as a means of addressing one`s grievance is wrong, be it LTTE or Kashmiri jehadists or any other. The reaction to violence is always more violence and innocent lives are usually lost. We have already seen US response. Today i saw on T.V how some innocent Afghani lives were lost due to a misdirected bomb-hit. This was inevitable. Roaches like OBL will actually try to take advantage of this.``
You are right... avenging terrorism with terrorism will not work in the long run.. and that is another reason why Sept 11 was totally wrong (stratgestically as well as morally).
``I suspect, Palestine is the name OBL is using to bring forth a reaction from muslims. I see that the silent majority who are supposed to be against OBL`s policies are doing nothing. Why do they not come out in large numbers and speak out against OBL and his acts of terrorism? Why does not Musharraf organise a large demonstration (100 fold stronger than any pro-Taliban protests we have seen so far)in favor of US-led coalition. He just cannot do it and i will explain why so.``
My views fully concur with yours on this. The reasons you put forward for Mushy`s inaction are ominously true, IMO, though there IS a lot more he could have done to at least keep Ossama from becoming a hero, if not prevent America from being the villian, in the eys of the masses. The electronic media could have been put to far better use to highlight the unIslamic nature of Ossama`s (alleged) actions.
``I have said in the past that terrorism as a means of addressing one`s grievance is wrong, be it LTTE or Kashmiri jehadists or any other. The reaction to violence is always more violence and innocent lives are usually lost. We have already seen US response. Today i saw on T.V how some innocent Afghani lives were lost due to a misdirected bomb-hit. This was inevitable. Roaches like OBL will actually try to take advantage of this.``
``...This may make Mushy`s condition precarious. If he is forced to use violence, he risks being overthrown. A fundoo may take over. There is no way to know how India and Israel may react if nuclear facilities fall into a fundoo`s hands. This has a potential to blow up into a major war.``
Rest assured the day the fundoos take over will be the day (or the day before, at the most) that US bomber level our Nuclear facilities. And that will be at least a few days before the fundoos would have been able to get down to working out the intiricacies of detonation. So chill!
``What should Mushy be doing then? While he is cleaning his house off all Taliban elements, he should be mending fences with India so that lines of communication are open and even if he falls we know that the nuclear facilities are safe.``
Sounds simple enough. I you somehow subtract all the decades of intese distrust and animus between the two nations, that is. :)
`` Do we see Musharraf making any conciliatory getures? I do not think so. He warned India to lay off initially. Then we hear that a suicide bomber (belonging to Jaish-e-Mohammed, a terrorist organisation that has its base in Pakistan) has rammed a car into J and K assembly killing a lot of civilians.``
Hey wait a minute... This could just as justifiably be seen as the autonmous operational nature of the J-i-M.
``India warns but does not react militarily to the attack on the assembly. Israel, in the same situation, would have bombarded all the training camps.``
Unfortunately, Israel does not have enemies with nukes to pose threats... or indeed with conventional weapons enough to pose an unsurmountable counter attack.
``... That is why it is so essential that Pakistan has a true people`s democracy which will show the Army its proper place and go about the business of mending fences with India. Kashmir problem can be addressed in a diplomatic manner.``
I wish I, or most/any Pakistani shared your optimism on this matter. it is at least encouraging to know that at least *some * Indians see the issue as a bilateral one.
rgds,
PM
#599 Posted by sattar2 on October 15, 2001 8:28:55 pm
Urstruly (#513):
Good Professor, I am detecting a subtle, but a critical shift in your “newer” interpretation of jihad by sword here!
Earlier I had objected to your interpretation of “fitnah” as “polytheism”, which you attempted to justify on basis of protecting Islamic ideology in a “Muslim” state. Basically this would have meant that Hindus and Christians residing in a “Muslim” state must be killed or driven out, unless they accept Oneness of God. Such use of force would be cruel and barbaric, and has no basis in Islam.
It is good to see that you are now interpreting “fitnah” not merely as “polytheism…” but rather as “…forced reversion to polytheism”. Now, there is a huge difference in these two interpretations. “Polytheism” is a belief in multiple Gods, against which jihad by sword cannot be justified. However, “forced reversion to polytheism” is an act of oppression against which jihad by sword may be justified under certain circumstances.
You have finally fixed your error, without admitting that you actually made one. And that’s just fine and dandy. I can accept your “newer” interpretation as a potentially valid one.
Asad Sattar
Good Professor, I am detecting a subtle, but a critical shift in your “newer” interpretation of jihad by sword here!
Earlier I had objected to your interpretation of “fitnah” as “polytheism”, which you attempted to justify on basis of protecting Islamic ideology in a “Muslim” state. Basically this would have meant that Hindus and Christians residing in a “Muslim” state must be killed or driven out, unless they accept Oneness of God. Such use of force would be cruel and barbaric, and has no basis in Islam.
It is good to see that you are now interpreting “fitnah” not merely as “polytheism…” but rather as “…forced reversion to polytheism”. Now, there is a huge difference in these two interpretations. “Polytheism” is a belief in multiple Gods, against which jihad by sword cannot be justified. However, “forced reversion to polytheism” is an act of oppression against which jihad by sword may be justified under certain circumstances.
You have finally fixed your error, without admitting that you actually made one. And that’s just fine and dandy. I can accept your “newer” interpretation as a potentially valid one.
Asad Sattar
#598 Posted by shammi on October 15, 2001 8:28:55 pm
Re: Harimau
Dalits defy temple ban (IN 21st CENTURY INDIA)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1556000/1556464.stm
Dalits defy temple ban (IN 21st CENTURY INDIA)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1556000/1556464.stm
#597 Posted by shammi on October 15, 2001 8:28:55 pm
Re: Rsridhar #570
``...I must confess i never knew that non-hindus are not allowed in Puri or Pushkar. I do not think that is correct. Can you please furnish me any proof of that?...``
Personal experience at Pushkar (sorry no weblinks), when the local guide informed us of that. Although my visit was for purely crass (tourism) reasons, and not for any spritual ones, I was still disappointed that in our secular land such trite still reigns supreme in certain pockets. I do not know what the offical policy of the temple complex mgmt. board is. I did, however, see some European also hanging around. Presumably, they were either geniunely Hindu, or impostors -- no way to tell -- just indicates the stupidity of such a policy.
Bong-Dongs has already mentioned the policy at other places, and ZZ has tried to defend it by more trite such as ``jagannath temple is not a tourist spot...It is not the purpose to let foreigners move around with camers clicking on `how cute` idols. it is a place of worship...``. I will believe ZZ when I can see the audited financial books of Tripuati and other rich temples.
``...I must confess i never knew that non-hindus are not allowed in Puri or Pushkar. I do not think that is correct. Can you please furnish me any proof of that?...``
Personal experience at Pushkar (sorry no weblinks), when the local guide informed us of that. Although my visit was for purely crass (tourism) reasons, and not for any spritual ones, I was still disappointed that in our secular land such trite still reigns supreme in certain pockets. I do not know what the offical policy of the temple complex mgmt. board is. I did, however, see some European also hanging around. Presumably, they were either geniunely Hindu, or impostors -- no way to tell -- just indicates the stupidity of such a policy.
Bong-Dongs has already mentioned the policy at other places, and ZZ has tried to defend it by more trite such as ``jagannath temple is not a tourist spot...It is not the purpose to let foreigners move around with camers clicking on `how cute` idols. it is a place of worship...``. I will believe ZZ when I can see the audited financial books of Tripuati and other rich temples.
#596 Posted by Zahra on October 15, 2001 7:07:01 pm
Tahmed:
Your Creative Skills are doing pretty well. :)
Binifer:
Rather than wasting your time on this board, I suggest you prepare for the nice songs that should be sung as well as looked into for mehndi dances. In fact, I just attended a family wedding in the last few days, and it was a positive diversion from the mess we are in: Anthrax, War, Suspects, Terrorism, News, Media, Pagal Pun right and left... I heard a few sweet songs just last week. Usually, mehndis back home are far more festive and interesting, but many times well prepared mehndis here are also elaborate and nice and provide you with an opportunity to bring back the flavor of back home`s festivity.
Two songs, that I found very sweet and worth jumping up and down, are listed below. There are many others besides the following that I had discovered during my brother`s wedding late last year and insallah am planning to look into for a dear cousin early next year. But the ones below are real pyara ones.
I)
- Gulaa`n Gorian Dae Wich Toae`[depression]
Usaan Mur Gayae Vae Oye Oye
Oye Hoyae Duhai Pae Gayee
KuRi Kud KaE Kalejaa - Lae Gayee [Gone with the wind :)]
II)
- Totae Totae Ho Gaya
Dil...
Totae Totae Ho Gaya [I just heard this a few days back and am not very familiar with the lyrics but I liked the tune very much]
PS: By the way, you better have good songs for your shadi ready as the guests are more interested in hulla-gulla and dhol dhamaka than seeing the formal part of the marriage. Sorry, but that`s the reality.
Take Care and Best Wishes!
Your Creative Skills are doing pretty well. :)
Binifer:
Rather than wasting your time on this board, I suggest you prepare for the nice songs that should be sung as well as looked into for mehndi dances. In fact, I just attended a family wedding in the last few days, and it was a positive diversion from the mess we are in: Anthrax, War, Suspects, Terrorism, News, Media, Pagal Pun right and left... I heard a few sweet songs just last week. Usually, mehndis back home are far more festive and interesting, but many times well prepared mehndis here are also elaborate and nice and provide you with an opportunity to bring back the flavor of back home`s festivity.
Two songs, that I found very sweet and worth jumping up and down, are listed below. There are many others besides the following that I had discovered during my brother`s wedding late last year and insallah am planning to look into for a dear cousin early next year. But the ones below are real pyara ones.
I)
- Gulaa`n Gorian Dae Wich Toae`[depression]
Usaan Mur Gayae Vae Oye Oye
Oye Hoyae Duhai Pae Gayee
KuRi Kud KaE Kalejaa - Lae Gayee [Gone with the wind :)]
II)
- Totae Totae Ho Gaya
Dil...
Totae Totae Ho Gaya [I just heard this a few days back and am not very familiar with the lyrics but I liked the tune very much]
PS: By the way, you better have good songs for your shadi ready as the guests are more interested in hulla-gulla and dhol dhamaka than seeing the formal part of the marriage. Sorry, but that`s the reality.
Take Care and Best Wishes!
#595 Posted by bong_dongs on October 15, 2001 11:41:19 am
Ref #tahmed321
Hey man, you totally misread me. The ``pandas`` in Puri are an absolute abomination. ``Praying in peace`` is the last thing they know how to do, fleecing tourists in the name of religion is more to their style. Putting an end to their power would be a great service to hinduism. It will make you (in my eyes atleast) a great defender of hinduism.
Hey man, you totally misread me. The ``pandas`` in Puri are an absolute abomination. ``Praying in peace`` is the last thing they know how to do, fleecing tourists in the name of religion is more to their style. Putting an end to their power would be a great service to hinduism. It will make you (in my eyes atleast) a great defender of hinduism.
#594 Posted by tahmed321 on October 15, 2001 11:12:26 am
bong-dongs #589 ``Hey, ylh, tahmed etc wanna come along we`ll storm the temple at Puri and put the moron ``Pandas`` (priests, but disgrace to the word) in their place).
Thanks for the invitation my friend. The hate-muslim club has indeed been quite active recently I see. This club, in case folks are unaware, is as follows:
Chairman of the Board: Jay Thakeray;
President: (Vacant, numerous contenders)
Secretary for anti-Muslim Propaganda: audio-video-stolen-goods-reseller;
Secretary for Abusing Shankar and Cat Fighting Females: Rsaxena;
Secretary for Moron Rights: Ranasher;
Secretary for Pollution Distribution: Harimau;
Secretary for Ensuring Continued Pollution Generation: Urstruly (Visiting Pakistani Scholar)
Secretary for Self-Flagellation (Visiting Pakistani Scholar): Hamidm
However, I think one does not form a hate-hinduism club in response to a hate-islam or hate-muslim club. Let the Pandas pray in peace.
Thanks for the invitation my friend. The hate-muslim club has indeed been quite active recently I see. This club, in case folks are unaware, is as follows:
Chairman of the Board: Jay Thakeray;
President: (Vacant, numerous contenders)
Secretary for anti-Muslim Propaganda: audio-video-stolen-goods-reseller;
Secretary for Abusing Shankar and Cat Fighting Females: Rsaxena;
Secretary for Moron Rights: Ranasher;
Secretary for Pollution Distribution: Harimau;
Secretary for Ensuring Continued Pollution Generation: Urstruly (Visiting Pakistani Scholar)
Secretary for Self-Flagellation (Visiting Pakistani Scholar): Hamidm
However, I think one does not form a hate-hinduism club in response to a hate-islam or hate-muslim club. Let the Pandas pray in peace.
#593 Posted by rsaxena on October 15, 2001 11:12:26 am
Re: PM
Dude, you`re getting boring now...
Re: Binifer
Dude, you never became interesting...try harder, and if you can`t, stop stalking me from board to board with your lame attempts to start a flame throwing match.
Dude, you`re getting boring now...
Re: Binifer
Dude, you never became interesting...try harder, and if you can`t, stop stalking me from board to board with your lame attempts to start a flame throwing match.
#592 Posted by bong_dongs on October 15, 2001 11:12:26 am
ZZ
``jagannath temple is not a tourist spot. it may have become one. but that is not the purpose to let foreigners move around with camers clicking on `how cute` idols. it is a place of worship``
yeah, but i guess you have no problem wandering through the Notre Dame or the Sistine chapel happily clicking away, why this double standard? Hey and if the pandas can make a few more bucks fleecing the foreigners maybe they`ll leave us alone :-)
``jagannath temple is not a tourist spot. it may have become one. but that is not the purpose to let foreigners move around with camers clicking on `how cute` idols. it is a place of worship``
yeah, but i guess you have no problem wandering through the Notre Dame or the Sistine chapel happily clicking away, why this double standard? Hey and if the pandas can make a few more bucks fleecing the foreigners maybe they`ll leave us alone :-)
#591 Posted by Gowardhan on October 15, 2001 11:12:26 am
Winning and losing the war PM way.
Country P launches an operation with clear purpose of doing thing O
Country P gets whacked, can`t do O. Has to struggle to save its life.
Country P claims it won the war because it saved its life.
Anybody who points out otherwise is a bonehead.
Long live YAWN logic.
Country P launches an operation with clear purpose of doing thing O
Country P gets whacked, can`t do O. Has to struggle to save its life.
Country P claims it won the war because it saved its life.
Anybody who points out otherwise is a bonehead.
Long live YAWN logic.
#590 Posted by Binifer on October 15, 2001 9:38:20 am
Chachashankar on that saxena:
(After getting regular butt whippings from scout, I see you have developed the good sense of not getting into a fight with another Pakistani lady.)
love the way you get under his skin.totally awesome.
(Those tigresses are beautiful as they are ferocious. Oops I`d better quit, before anNy starts whacking me with her pigtails:)..)
lolol.
dont worry about her. all bark and no bite at all. harmless doll :)
tc,
Binifer
P.S= hey remember i asked you to have your muslim bhabhi and hindi bro come down and have a talk with my parents to lemme marry my muslim boyfriend? u never got back ;) but im getting married soon. if ure in town (small possibility) drop in k?
(After getting regular butt whippings from scout, I see you have developed the good sense of not getting into a fight with another Pakistani lady.)
love the way you get under his skin.totally awesome.
(Those tigresses are beautiful as they are ferocious. Oops I`d better quit, before anNy starts whacking me with her pigtails:)..)
lolol.
dont worry about her. all bark and no bite at all. harmless doll :)
tc,
Binifer
P.S= hey remember i asked you to have your muslim bhabhi and hindi bro come down and have a talk with my parents to lemme marry my muslim boyfriend? u never got back ;) but im getting married soon. if ure in town (small possibility) drop in k?
#589 Posted by Neptune on October 15, 2001 9:38:20 am
Zafar #596
Ahhh.... why do I still have this hesitation about rifling through somebody`s drawers.....
Ahhh.... why do I still have this hesitation about rifling through somebody`s drawers.....
#588 Posted by sigalph235 on October 15, 2001 9:38:20 am
re zafar 597
Aap galat samjhe. I meant I have to have shudh Brahmin as Prime Minister. Yeah, you can have the Vice and Hedonism portfolio as part of the Deputy PM`s job.
Aap galat samjhe. I meant I have to have shudh Brahmin as Prime Minister. Yeah, you can have the Vice and Hedonism portfolio as part of the Deputy PM`s job.
#587 Posted by Aisha_Sarwari on October 15, 2001 9:38:20 am
Stuka.
``YLH patriotism is composed of love for Pakistan, while Sarwari`s is composed of hatred for India. Two distinct mindsets, the former to be respected, the latter to be regarded with contempt.``
Does this mean if there was no India I would be indifferent towards Pakistan?
``YLH patriotism is composed of love for Pakistan, while Sarwari`s is composed of hatred for India. Two distinct mindsets, the former to be respected, the latter to be regarded with contempt.``
Does this mean if there was no India I would be indifferent towards Pakistan?
#586 Posted by PM on October 15, 2001 9:38:20 am
re. Rsaxena #who-cares
``The frustration and anger you are seeing from PM ...``
And you accused ylh of `projecting` somewhere!?!
Here`s a helpful link... www.m-w.com.
You`re more than welcome.
``The frustration and anger you are seeing from PM ...``
And you accused ylh of `projecting` somewhere!?!
Here`s a helpful link... www.m-w.com.
You`re more than welcome.
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