Jihad: Paradoxes and Defining Moments

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You are talking about the idealistic version of Islam. The reality is quite different. That is what the original author was alluding to.

Why are most Islamic societies, be they pro or anti Western, so oppressive? Why is it that democracy doesn`t come naturally to these societies. I can only blame it on an inability to reconcile with the age or reason.

You say Israel discriminates on a racial basis. What`s the difference between it and most Islamic countries which discriminate on the basis or religion? Have you heard of Pakistan`s blasphemy law and how it`s been used against it`s religious minorities?

Re: the price of Oil: I thought the Arab countries made sackloads of money in the last two decades, so where is the plunder? If there is any plunder it is due to the likes of Saddam Hussein and the Iranian nuts who squandered this money on megalomaniacal tendencies. The price is what the market will bear. People used to pay $300-$400 for VCRs a few years ago; today you can get them for less than $100. I don`t see the Japanese declaring Jihad on the rest of the world for plundering their electronics.

And secular democracy is not anathema to ANY society of whatever religious compulsion.

All it says is that people choose their own leaders (which is in the highest traditions of Islam) and people can go about their daily chores without big brother telling them what to do as long as they don`t cause harm to anyone else (which is what great thinkers of all relgions including Islam did). This is the only way the curiousity of the human race can be satiated, not by forcing everyone to wear long beards and stifling clothes etc..

I could go on and on but you get my point.

Dear Urstruly,

`Take for example, Pakistan, where rulers and people are standing on opposite ends of a spectrum

as far as issue of supporting Americans in their alleged war against terrorism is concerned.`

Urstruly if you still cant see the pragmatism in supporting the US in this war, then I must say I was wrong in my estimate of you.

Furthermore, I am not sure how you can claim that people of Pakistan stand on opposite ends from the rulers in this war. From what I understand a great majority of them stands by the side of the President !

Urstruly,

Can I suggest `Shame` by Salman Rushdie... Please give it a reading with an open mind.

-YLH

Apologia par excellence!

Interesting...

``Even the most rabid anti-Islamists grudgingly admit that Islam had already introduced the Geneva Convention in 6th century``

........ so it must be assumed that the treatment meted out to the jews after the battle of khandaq was an aberation and that the taliban were wrong in using it as a guideline when they captured mazar sharif ...

......... we can go on to talk about nagasaki, my lai, hiroshima, sebernica, chittagong, kashmir, sabra and shatilla .... but two or more wrongs don`t make a right ......... no one is perfect ..... and really, it is quite immaterial what is written in books and treaties - what matters is how the followers of the ideology interpret and implement it ....... communism as envisioned by marx and engles was better than anything god and gabriel could come up with, but it wrought nothing but misery and suffering ......

.....islam is as good or bad as any other religion, but the way the islamists interpret it and want to foist it on humanity is frightening .........

One doesn`t even need to read this article to know what garbage must be in here. The stench can be picked up without reading.

Bush Sr. Apologizes To Son For Funding Bin Laden In `80s

MIDLAND, TX— Former president George Bush issued an apology to his son Monday for advocating the CIA`s mid-`80s funding of Osama bin Laden, who at the time was resisting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. ``I`m sorry, son,`` Bush told President George W. Bush. ``We thought it was a good idea at the time because he was part of a group fighting communism in Central Asia. We called them `freedom fighters` back then. I know it sounds weird. You sort of had to be there.`` Bush is still deliberating over whether to tell his son about the whole supporting-Saddam Hussein-against-Iran thing.





P.S. its a pun with whole more fact than average news papers !!!!!!!!!!!!



U.S. Vows To Defeat Whoever It Is We`re At War With

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so now there are variety of JEHADs??... suit yourself..?? whatever one likes...Who choses what?? Is there a lisence required to intitiate the Jehad..Or any Bin Laden can start it...When there is a injunction required...Just hire a clergy (Mollah) to issue a fatwa...Dont we find some thing fake & fradullent about it...??..You guys dont belive me..Just look at your prsent and past history...full of jehadi stories..

Urstruly...when allied forces were fighting against Hitler....was it Jehad or no ...fighting against tyrant by your definition !! yaa allah sirf muslman ki malkiat hey....Khudda sirf muslman ka hey baqi tou sab faltou hain and they will go to hell...does it make any sense to you....is n`t it this religion fraudlent...??Bar -khurdar jhanum ki Dua karo..you will be in good company with Newton, Einstine,Ghandi ...at least I would like to go there where these ``Kafirs`` will be...tum janut mey rehna...in good company of Osma Bin Laden...and many like him...

Urstruly, there is an ideological battle going on between radical Islam and the rest of the world which includes moderate muslims. The people who support radical Islam want everyone to follow their fanatical way of life. They justify this dream by using the terminology of Jihad. Well, if they want to prove their point, let them implement their vision in Afghanistan and show that it works. Bin Laden and his gang have a lot of money. Why don`t they build schools, hospitals and create jobs in Afghanistan ? Let them create a society that is half way decent and we can consider the theological basis after that.

The reason the Western countries are on top of the world is because they have created an outstanding system that works. People from all parts of the world, including muslim countries want to migrate to the west and live there. No one has to force them to make this decision or terrorize them into recognizing the value of the ideology. In contrast, Afghanistan which is the epicenter of these so called jihadis, is a stone age nation where life is unbearable for normal human beings. It is pure hell on this earth which is being justified on the basis of Islam. The tragedy is that instead of doing something about this black hole, these people have the megalomania to ask others to follow their footsteps. Do they take us for fools ? Decent people all over the world need to get together and root out this evil curse from humanity, starting with Afghanistan.

Urstruly says: ``Any social scientist and anthropologist will attest to this fact that imported ideologies almost always are doomed to fail. The demise of communist ideology throughout the world and pathetic condition of (Secular) Democracy throughout the third world attest to this fact.``

Explain how an imported ideology called Islam, which is native to Arabia, came to be seen as the hope of the people in a place called Pakistan and a number of other countries far removed from the Arab milieu of the 7th century.

Urstruly says: ``An adopted ideology only becomes imbedded in a society if it is already harmonious with its cultural norms or when it is modified as such. The foundation of any ideology always lies within the society and not without.``

Perhaps there is hope for Pakistani society after all. The nominally Muslim people of Pakistan will choose from Islam what is relevant and harmonius to their cultural norms and reject the regressive, radical and fundamentalist interpretation of Islam (as practised by the Taliban) that seems to be masquerading as the `real` version of Islam.

ylh

a) In the civilized world ( excluding Pakistan ) wether the people are standing with the ruler or not is determined through elections and not by the pronouncements of Shri Musharraf and Shri YLh. Does this concept sound alien to you or are we going to hear that the holy book introduced democracy in the 1st century just like it introduced something in the 6th century? How did Shri Musharraf know that the people are behind him as stated in CNN?

Was the Bangladesh struggle a Jehad?

If the KAshmiri Hindus lauch a struggle against Pakistan govt in POK , can that be equated with Jehad?

Urstruly, I wonder if you would first go ona jihad to get justice in Pakistan before propagating the need for, and supporting, jihad in Kashmir and other remote parts of the world.

Lets us see the injustices in Pakistan:

(a) honour killings of women

(b) slavery (bonded labour)

(c) disparties and depravities in the society

(d) equality liberty etc etc in Pakistan.

Unless we sort out the priorities, there is no point in doing a jehad anywhere else in teh world. IF Pakistan is in trouble, the rest of the world will not come to the aid of Pakistan. (the last couple of years is a testimony of this).

But then I guess, going by Urstruly`s past form, I will be labled as a woolyy liberal (if he is in a generous mood), or worse.

interactors please do not give me a list of stuff regarding India. I do not care what India does or doesnot do. I do not view Pakistans situation through the prism of India. I am interested in and bothered abut what Pakistan does to itself.

EDUCATION JIHAD,

This article is the type that should sent a chill through the spine of any one. The defense of jihad is no different from the defense of nazi killings by the neo-nazis, the defense of the caste system as the natural order of things, or the extolling of sati as the greates feminine virtue.

No doubt urstruly, even in the anonymity of chowk cannot expect live another day if he were to say that jihad is irrelevant in the modern times. may be the educated pakistanis should come to kerala and listen to the muslims who say with out fear that jihad is an out dated idea.

This shows that education, even of the baba black sheep variety cannot bring any progresive ideas to the monoreligious environs of pakistan. It only provides the sophistry to spin the barbaric ideas into some legitimate human rights framework