Jihad: Paradoxes and Defining Moments

Re: Libra:

Perhaps you did not know that the people of Kashmir have the right to elect their own legislature and their chief minister (who controls all the security forces in the state). So, what you call `state-sponsored terrorism` is really controllable by the people, is it not? All they need to do is throw out the politicians. Of late, whenever there have been elections held there, they have been accompanied by threats of violence against voters issued by the Jaish-e-this, or the Laskar-e-that. Just yesterday, over 30 people were killed outside the J&K legislature.

YLH:

I have read your posts and appreciated them. The paradox is that Jinnah`s vision of Pakistan was that of a state for Muslims and not that of a Muslim state, the intellectual premise of that vision never really trickled down to the masses. IMO, it was Liaquat`s pandering of religious sentiment that set the ball rolling.

Interestingly, Pakistan is the only country where the secularists and the Islamists have never clashed openly, with the former usually giving way to the latter. If you examine other predominantly Muslim countries, this clash has taken place at one time or the other. The Baathists of Iraq and Syria, the Algerians etc have all had to suppress the Islamists. Iran and Saudi Arabia are theocracies where the voice of secularists has been suppressed by the Muslims. Pakistan has been fortunate in avoiding a blatant clash of visions till date.

Do you think that such a fundamental clash of visions will take place? If not, how and why do you think Pakistan is different from other Muslim states.

Dear Zahra (Reply #: 576 on another board)

``By the way, I completely forgot that we were talking about Dilli than Dehli or Delhi. Of course, I have read about Dilli in the sad stories of Mir(The Poet), specially after Nadir Shah ruined Dilli.``

You are completely correct it is Dilli. You are the second person to mention about Meer on Dilli. Is there an English translation that I can get?

Nadir Shah committed this act from the balcony of the famous and beautiful Moti Masjid in Chandni Chowk. We read about this Katl-e-Aam in our 7th grade books. I have walked under the balcony of this beautiful masjid so many times, and wondered why would someone not spare the religious spot for such an act.

Just next to this masjid is a famous Kotwali where two suns of one of the Sikh gurus were held. On my last trip in 1997 I discovered that this Kotwali is now part of the famous Gurudwara Sisganj adjacent to it. It is very interesting that Kotwali separates the famous Masjid and equally famous Gurudwara.

``There are a few points that I am not mentioning right now - kind of leaving some thoughts unsaid. And it`s important that they should be mentioned and understood - I will come back when I have more time to think and write on those.``

Please do write your thoughts down. All good thoughts must find expression.

``PS: You had some mention of ``astrology`` - I am not sure of that, but ...``

You had mentioned that I would ``tupko-fy``, hence my fear of another astrologer.

Anil

Re: YLH

``...It definitely had to do with saving Muslims from Political and cultural oblivion, ...``

Do you think that Muslims in India (even with their truncated numbers after partition) are in political or cultural oblivion? Two Presidents, Supreme Court justices, governors, etc. Or in cultural oblivion (most of the S. Asian muslim musicians, poets, singers, actors, directors, are Indian (not Pakistani or Bangladeshi)).

Dear dost-mittar (Reply #: 580 on another board)

``First time that I learnt the actual name for the disappearing language of Chandni Chowk and Koocha Ballimaaran.``

This language is beautiful and musical to listen. I wonder if anyone has tried to compile an anthology.

``Ghantewallah is indeed an institution, as is the Jalebiwallah at the Dariba nukkad.``

This Jalebiwallah is also an institution. As I have grown I have seen now the third generation running it. This nukkadwala owns all the adjoining buildings.

``Back in the sixties, some people revived an old Dilli tradition,called ``Phool waalon ki sair``. Do you know if it has been continued?``

I left Delhi in 1970, I know in sixties, some people tried to revive this tradition.

Best regards

ANIL

Can I just add a quick summary to Urstruly`s generally excellent post if I may be so bold?

Excluding jihad-al-Nafs (fighting against one`s ego and baser carnal desires) --which is Jihad al Akbar and the basis of Sufism--and dealing only with what Urstruly defined as Jihad bil Sayf (Jihad with the sword) it can be said that the fuqaha have divided this jihad into two broad categories--offensive and defensive jihad. Now offensive jihad can only be declared by a legitimate political representative of the Muslim Ummah (traditionally the khalifah or the sultan) and since no Islamic state with such a leader exists today (the last such ruler was the great Ottoman Sultan Abd al Hamid II rahmatullah alayhi) it follows that until such a time as the khilafat is revived such an offensive jihad cannot be launched legitimitely from an Islamic viewpoint. This leaves the defensive jihad. There is no doubt as Urstruly pointed out that such jihads exist in Kashmir, Chechnya, Occupied Palestine, etc. and are legitimate from a Shar`iah point of view as they involve Muslims trying to liberate their land and property from oppression by the infidels or if a non-Muslim army invades a Muslim land in which case it becomes incumbent upon all Muslims in areas represented by increasing concentric circles from the land under attack to rush to its defence (i.e. if those immediately affected cannot do jihad, those nearest must act, etc. etc. till it encompases all the Muslims of the world). IN EITHER TYPE OF JIHAD THOUGH THE DELIBERATE KILLING OF NON-COMBATANTS IS TOTALLY FORBIDDEN AS IS DESTROYING PLANTS, TREES, KILLING ANIMALS ETC. Therefore the atrocity on September 11th was totally against Islam and a heinous and barbaric act which all Muslim scholars of all schools have condemned except for a tiny lunatic fringe of the Wahabi sect. BUT, AS SHAYKH NUH KELLER POINTED OUT IN A RECENT ARTICLE IT SHOULD BE MADE CLEAR BY ORTHODOX MUSLIMS THAT WAHABISM HAS NO CONNECTION WITH ORTHODOX ISLAM WHATSOEVER. And therefore to condemn all Muslims for the acts of a lunatic fringe is wrong...

I hope this has made it a bit clearer insha Allah...

Allahuma mansuril mujahideena fi kulli maqaam. ameen. bi jaahi sayyid al aalameen alayhi salaatosalaam.

Pakistan is fighting for opressed Muslims in Kashmir??? Here is India`s Minister of State for External Affairs, Omar Abdullah, A MUSLIM, smacking Pakistan in the media.

Oh but I forget, every Indian Muslim who speaks for his country is not a real Muslim.

``India fast running out of

patience: Omar Abdullah

Minister of State for External Affairs Omar Abdullah on Tuesday warned Pakistan that India is fast running out of patience, but ruled out any hot-pursuit of Pak-trained militants in Kashmir for now.

Addressing a press conference in the wake of Monday`s terrorist attack on the Jammu and Kashmir state assembly building in Srinagar, he pointed out that Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee had written to US President George W Bush about Pakistan`s continuing involvement in terrorist activities in Jammu and Kashmir.

Referring to the attack, Abdullah said: ``A terrorist organisation, Jaish-e-Muhammad, has claimed responsibility and has even named one of the terrorists involved in the attack, Wajahat Hussain, a resident of Peshawar in Pakistan.``

Jaish-e-Mohammad is headed by Maulana Masood Azhar, one of the three terrorists who were released by the government in exchange of 167 passengers of the hijacked Indian Airlines flight IC 814 in December 1999. ``

YLH:

It appears that your advice that the Kashmiri struggle should adopt constitutional methods is now increasingly important (after Sept. 11, and the Jaish-e-Mohammed attack on the J&K legislature):

US Says War on Terrorism Includes Kashmir (BBC)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1576000/1576294.stm

Terrorism in Kashmir will not be ignored, US tells India (AFP)

http://in.news.yahoo.com/011002/6/15w8f.html

YLH:

Also this:

U.S. says campaign will pursue Kashmiri militants (Reuters)

http://in.news.yahoo.com/011002/64/15wda.html

The means are just as important as the ends.

YLH #96

``...Simple Answers...``

Thank you for acknowledging the substance of so much of how we Pakistanis and Indians tend to want from each other. Yes, there are no easy answers.

re ylh

``Rushdie is an extremely educated man ...

Yes he is and I have enjoyed some of his works thoroughly. My first ever letter to a newspaper was defending his Satanic Verses(Bangladesh Observer).

That said, your take on Taslima Nasreen`s qualifications is rather sophomoric. She is, far from what you imply in `educated`, a very reputable physician and a well respected gynaecoligist. Her writings are a matter of personal taste. Her `education` is beyond reproach.

re ali 121

Yeah, that is the preorogative of a democracy. DOn`t get any ideas buddy. It is the BANGLADESH Nationalist Party(BNP) not the Pakistan Muslim League that won. If some Indians are somewhat sad, Pakistanis shouldn`t be too ecstatic either. Need I remind you that the BNP was founded by that great Hero of the War of Independence, the late General Ziaur Rahman?

FACTS ABOUT SRINAGAR ATTACK,

Around srinager hindus are nearly fifty percent, the number killed are mostly muslims which suggest that the hindus had prior warning and as such it is the work of RAW.

The car was an old ambassador, and it is well known that no pakistani, I mean no pakistani would drive one such mostrocity and let alone be found dead in one. Pakistanis, especially jihadists prefer pajeros, and again is an indication of the RAW hand.

Ear witnesses to the scene say that the bomb exploded with a kabooom, and it is well known that jihadic bombs because of the religious sanctions always explode with a `alaaahoom``. Definitely the bomb was a kafir bomb.

Once again the indian police have failed to produce the photo and home address of the alleged pakistani, which is the final conclusive proof of the RAW slander campaign.

The above are from a secret memo by General Ramair, a pet name for Rama Iyer, the last hindu general in the pak army.

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the car bomb in kashmir is not the act of any organistaion who is invloved in jehad in kashmir.. jesh- mohammad has already said they `ve nothing to do with it...INFACT THIS IS AN ACT OF INDIAN AGENCIES TO INVOLVE PAK AND BRACKET IT WITH THE RECENT ACTS OF TERRORISM IN USA........SHAME ON U INDIANS

LEARNING FROM YLH,

Now at last I know, `bin` and `abu` in names are essentially urdu in origin, which was later adopted widely by the arabs. I remeber the `abu nidal` group in the palestine, must be thirty years ago, and now I know, the namee is essentially half urdu. Thanks YLH.

Turkey is a great secular country, a woman was prevented from taking a position in the govt because she was wearing a hijab, I agree you consider this as great when compared the pakistan based laskers are throwing acid on women in kashmir for not wearing one.

Turkey is a great secular country, amuslim cleric, a US citizen, was arrested for starting a madrassa in turkey, i agree this is the ultimate symbaol of secularism when compared to pakistan were a teacher is arrested for suggesting that if mohammed started islam, then his father could not have been a muslim.

YLH, may be it is time you learn to understand the difference between individual actions and institutional guidelines. There will always be deviant individuals, but institutions need not support those deviant behaviour. As an educated person you have an obligation to point out those institutional faults, leave the individuals.

There will always be homicide, but if the law of the land says that if the victim is a woman, then no crime is committed, then there is a problem, and that is the case in pakistan.

Now that you are a researcher, always quoting, can you get me some detail of the lahore high court ruling that declared honour killing as legal. Many say that pak legal system is derived from the british, I am curious to know what aspect of the british system will justify killing.

At the risk of being attacked by sac, my daughter is a QC, and is very interested in the judge,ent.

regards

jay.