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Nuggets from the Urdu press

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Nasibo Lal in trouble

According to Khabrain, folk singer Nasibo Lal, while singing at Gujranwala Arts Council, allowed fuhush (obscene) dancers like Alisha, Khushboo and Lashana, to perform lasciviously in front of a local audience. People responded with great enthusiasm although the event was against the rules of decency. They repeatedly performed bhangra while ignoring ideology of Pakistan.

Milosevic and Osama

Historian of Afghan jehad Raja Anwar, writing in Khabrain, said that if Milosevic could be brought under trial in an international court why couldn`t Pakistan or any other state ensure that Osama bin Laden is brought before an impartial court? He could be punished only if found guilty. Raja Anwar wrote that Afghanistan had given nothing to Pakistan but kalashnikov culture and was not willing to make any concession, not even on the Durand Line.

Mufti Shamzai`s fatwa

According to Nawa-e-Waqt, Mufti Shamzai of Karachi`s Banuri Mosque issued the fatwa that when the Americans land in Pakistan his followers should immediately take over the country`s airports. Fifty thousand followers did bayat-e-jehad (pledge of war) on his hand. He said anyone fighting on the side of Christians against Islam would go to hell.

Sharif brothers part ways

According to daily Din, Nawaz Sharif and Shehbaz Sharif fell apart in their hideaway in Saudi Arabia and that Shehbaz Sharif had bought a residence of his own separately from the family still led by Abbaji. The paper opined that since Shehbaz had decided to part ways with the family he may lose Saudi financial help.

Pakistan`s paradox

Renowned columnist Nazeer Naji wrote in Jang that Pakistan had a strange history of upheavals. Bhutto, a liberal, chose a fundamentalist officer General Zia for promotion to army chief, who overthrew him and converted Pakistan into a fundamentalist state. Bhutto was a secularist but spent more time banning alcohol in Pakistan and apostatising the Ahmedis to please the mullahs. The initial paradox was that Jinnah was a secular leader who was opposed by the mullahs, but later Pakistan was to be moulded in the vision of not Jinnah but mullahs. Then General Zia chose Nawaz Sharif as his heir but in 1997 he was elected for his economic policies; instead he chose to enforce shariat after coming to power. But for a man devoted to shariat he chose General Musharraf, a non-Islamist, to head the army. General Musharraf who toured the cantonments to defend Nawaz Sharif for sacking an earlier chief, was later to remove Nawaz Sharif. And an Islamist army was now ready to get rid of the jehadi mullahs and rid the state of fundamentalism. Nawaz Sharif was opposing his anti-Taliban policy from Saudi Arabia although his brother chief minister Punjab Shehbaz Sharif had clearly said during his tenure that the Taliban were training the terrorists targeting Pakistani leaders.

What will Pakistan give?

Famous columnist Irshad Haqqani wrote in Jang that Pakistan and the US had discussed the matter of Pakistan`s offering landing facilities during the invasion of Afghanistan but there was no discussion on territorial rights. But General Hameed Gul, through a letter, said that he had trimmed his anti-Musharraf position when assured by him that neither land nor landing facilities would be granted to the American troops.

US to take intelligence help

Famous columnist Hussain Haqqani wrote in Jang that during the Afghan war the Americans used Pakistani intelligence to fight the Soviet Union but this cooperation was not really beneficial; but this time, he hoped, it would be more fruitful. This was a crucial point of time in the Pak-US relations.

Osama wanted me killed!

Leader of the PPP Ms Benazir Bhutto said in daily Din that Osama bin Laden paid Nawaz Sharif of the PML ten million dollars to topple her from government through the device of a no confidence vote. She said that Osama also planned to get her killed, but his plans failed twice.

Present land holding against Islam

According to daily Din, Council of Islamic Ideology came to the conclusion that the present land holdings in Pakistan were against Islam and must be undone because the child born in the house of a feudal lived in luxury while the one born in the house of a poor man was deprived. In the past, land reforms were undone by the Federal Shariat Court on the question of annexation of land without payment of market price.

Beaten up for singing `mahiya`

According to daily Pakistan a police officer ASI Shameem Gondal of Malka Hans had the habit of following a lady school teacher singing the mahiya songs of Mansoor Malangi loudly to seduce her into thinking of love. But the school teacher suddenly took off her burqa and started beating him up with her shoe. Other school girls accompanying her joined in and also beat him up with their shoes. After the beating it was discovered that one tooth of the thanedar ASI was broken but he was allowed to go only after he swore on a copy of the Quran and made the school teacher his sister.

It is not aunt`s home!

According to Nawa-e-Waqt, ex-ISI chief General Hameed Gul said that after the Taliban shot down two unmanned spy planes of the United States, the Americans were bound to run away from the battle field. He said all would soon be well because defeating the Taliban was not khala ji ka ghar (easy as being in one`s aunt`s home).

Zia wanted Afghanistan

Quoting a journalist once close to General Zia, Maqbul Sharif, daily Pakistan wrote that General Zia did not want the Russians to leave Pakistan at the end of the Afghan war. He wanted the question of a new government in Kabul resolved before their exit. In fact he wanted to send Pakistani troops to Kabul in the same manner that India had sent its troops to East Pakistan.

Jehadi organisations are fake

Quoted in Jang, ex-ISI chief General Javed Ashraf Qazi said that 90 percent of the organisations engaged in jehad in Kashmir were fake. Hew said leaders like Maulana Fazlur Rehman and Maulana Samiul Haq were interested only in amassing funds and advancing their political ends. If they were sent to Afghanistan to fight they would jump out of the bus and run away. He said in the past the Taliban were warned many times that because of them Pakistan was being labelled a terrorist state but they did not listen.

Israel did it!

Talking to daily Pakistan, Sipah Sahaba chief Maulana Azam Tariq said that those who attacked New York and Washington should be sought in Israel and India because Osama bin Laden was blameless. He said if Afghanistan was attacked he would issue fatwa for the murder of Americans and Israelis. He said America wanted to attack Pakistan`s nuclear installations while pretending to attack Afghanistan. He added that there would be civil war in Pakistan if Islamabad continued to support the Americans.

Hekmatyar will join Taliban!

Editor Ausaf Hamid Mir wrote that if Pakistan were to sever relations with the Taliban in the wake of similar action by the UAE and Saudi Arabia, it will force two offended Afghan leaders, Hekmatyar and Sayyaf, to join the Taliban and make an anti-Pakistan alliance. This new alliance will stop the advance of the Northern Alliance but Pakistan would be forever deprived of the friendship of its precious Afghan brethren.

Allah will answer Mulla Umar`s call!

According to Khabrain Mulla Umar of Afghanistan had prayed to Allah for special intervention against the American attack, as a result of which Allah had sent down a storm off the coast of Karachi as a sign. Before this, Salahuddin Ayubi had also prayed like Mulla Umar and his prayer was heard and a Christians army was caused to be gharq (sunk) by Allah.

A Lahori heir to Afghan throne speaks out!

According to daily Din, Ashraf Durrani of Lahore was discovered to be in the line of descent of Ahmad Shah Abdali Durrani who established the first Afghan empire. Ashraf Durrani formally laid claim to the throne of Afghanistan and stated that the Afghan people were not satisfied with the government of the Taliban. He also laid claim to the diamonds presently owned by the Queen of England and said that the diamond had belonged to his ancestor Shah Shuja.

Allama Iqbal`s joy

Famous historian Dr Safdar Mehmood wrote in Nawa-e-Waqt that Allama Iqbal would have been overjoyed to see that the civilisation of the West was no longer obsessed by women but by a bearded man called Osama bin Laden.

Ms Mazari is anti-America

According to Ausaf, former chairman of the state-run Institute of Strategic Studies in Islamabad, Mr Niaz A. Naik, wrote to the Foreign Office saying that the present chairman of the institute, Dr Shireen Mazari, was anti-American and was harming the interests of Pakistan by writing against the United States. The paper said that upon an inquiry made by the Foreign Office, ex-foreign minister Agha Shahi stated that she had criticised the United States while defending the interests of Pakistan.

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mb_kumar #63 You should have stopped while you were ahead with your post #62 (people would never have found out the waste of chemicals between your two ears - trillions of brain cells, and this is all you can come up with!!).

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I fully agree with you and understand the plight of Afghan people. Being a Muslim country what Pakistan has done to Afghanistan is really disgusting. This is the same going on with Kashmiris, Mohazirs but I don`t understand why people, in general, don`t understand the attitude of this pakistani generals. This is wholly because of Punjabi generals and their attitude towards people of the region. I think they are only good for their own people how far I am not sure. Besides that I sincerely doubt, they are good for any one. Get rid of Pakistani punjab and whole probem will vanish like smoke in the air. I urge people of pakistan and of this region to understand the ambition behind these zeal before falling into their trap.

This is a test

PS:
Just a small paradox. If I am not mistaken, in the last Presidential election, the larger portion of the Muslim American vote went in favor of the Republican party(which encompasses the US right) ?

saminashah #48

I too find that families who have been in the US for a while have this divisive tendency. Others I have met who are more recent immigrants from India are determined to uphold the nonsectarian flavor in their activities. Thats one reason why I am totally opposed to NRIs funding sectarian activities and helping propagate their own skewed perspectives back in India. GoI needs to be shaken awake really fast to take action in this regard.

Re Arafat, I think he came to get support for `Zionism as racism` at the Durban conference. I think it was followed by an urgent visit from an Israeli emmissary. I havenot been following this but IMHO Indian govt. is walking a rhetorical tightrope on the Israel-Palestine issue after being traditionally opposed to Israeli interests for many years, and is likely to goof up and end up offending both sides so I wish that issue would get settled soon.

Re Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine, I agree with you. Re India and Pakistan being friendlier, that may certainly make a solution to Afghanistan easier, but I personally donot believe it will happen in this generation unless there is some decisive event like the present crisis :(.

sadna #72 you write ``I think most religions teachings in their essence aim for the same things.``

I think we can agree on that. One wonders then, why those who claim to be the most ardent devotees of these various religions do not observe their respective faiths in peace and tranquility. And why instead they aim to create mischief everywhere with their guns, stones, and insults. Perhaps they really are not as ardent devotees as they claim to be!!

Just wanted to say, that US must provide solid proof for Osama,and if found guilty,then should face a trial.

US should`nt uze forcez against him.

Becauze, DEAD OSAMA, IZ MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE LIVING ONE...

US must not commit this mistake.. Or, will have to face its after effects

Arrested Development

Hey! Not guilty this time.

But the time zone where I live shows that I was just delayed by two days. Can`t help. Their were certain emergencies, so I didn`t have the luxury of surfing through chowk and couldn`t read your oh so arresting reply earlier than I did.

Mona

urstruly #71 since you too seem somewhat challenged, I will try to explain to you what people of average intelligence would understand from my earlier response below. That is, I had said that the quotes from the Quran you provide reinforce what I have said, and do not negate them as you seem to think. I have explained this further below by taking the terms you have been able to come up with through painstaking research (I have numbered them to link them to my explanation on each):

``

1. As a witness (to testify about Allah)

2. The bearer of good news

3. As a warner

4. An inviter to God

5. And a guiding beacon.

6. He(pbuh) was sent out of mercy from Him towards the whole world.

7. He (pbuh) was blessed with a great gift, the gift of great moral character.``

Now ask yourself:

1. Witness: Is a witness responsible for how his/her testimony is interpreted?

2. Bearer of Good News: A bearer of news of any kind is a messenger.

3. Warner: I already mentioned this.

4. Inviter: Is an inviter expected to drag people in anyway if the invitation is not accepted?

5. Beacon: Does a beacon drag people to itself, or simply let them decide how they want to deal with the light.

6. Sent as mercy: this is simply irrelevant.

7. Moral character: Having a good moral character does not make a man responsible for other people`s moral character as well.

You really are an idiot!! You cant even read simple words and get them through your head! Better stick to posting insults to hindu chowkies (some of them will be perfectly happy to respond in kind, I am sure, while most will simply give you the attention you deserve).

Sadna,

Thanks for the article. I read it and it was interesting (the one by Mr. Naqvi, right?)...I find myself having discussions with people who are so ambivalent about the role of the U.S. media.

It is true that the US has thus far, shown unprecedented restraint(I am used to the knock`em-sock`em administrations) and indeed this has proven to be wise and have positive reverberations in countries such as Bangladesh. Lets hope it continues.

regards

Samina:

you would be a moderate Republican or a conservative Democrat...if you want I could send you some of the platforms some progressive South Asian American groups organize on. While the Dems and Reps are virtually indistinguishable lately, there are some shining individuals who seem to instinctively gravitate towards a greater decency, and I don`t want to overlook them. What is your opinion?

Well. as far as mainstream politics are concerned, I like to think of myself as a fiscal conservative and a social liberal(with limits). However, I am not familiar at all with South Asian politics in the US at all, except in the form of lobbying/pressure groups for India/Pakistan, which in anycase are divisive.

Unlike Asian, Latino and African American political groups, I really don`t see any future for South Asian groups because, at least to the uninitiated like me, they seem to care more about India/Pak rather than political needs here in the US. I am, however, talking about lobbying groups above.

Your platforms seem to be more in tune with our needs here and now. I`d definitely be interested in something like that, at least to learn what they stand for.

Regards

Stuka

Sadna:

Whose misfortune was it to beget me? Clearly my parents ofcourse..Who did you think? ;)

``In some ways, the Afghan Communist rulers were the only halfway decent government the Afghan people have had for a very long time.

Although Hafizullah Amin and Noor Mohammed Taraki (I knew I would remember his name eventually) were not particularly nice people (the murder of Daoud Shah and his entire family, as well as the ruthless use of the secret police against suspected opponents was much worse than anything done by Daoud Shah, himself no angel), they at least had the aim to move Afghanistan out of barbarism.

Under them, the average Afghan woman had for the first time some hope of living a real life.``(Fuzair)

Accurate assessment, Fuzair.

Pretty much sums up what Afghanistan was before all this -- and what it could have become -- before it ended up in the clutches of a monster cyclop mulla omar.

It`s interesting how history repeats itself in Afghanistan.

Whatever happened to progressive reform minded king Amanullah Khan -- happenned to the communists as well.

There is something in the Afghani bread that can turn even the progressives and communists into fanatic zealots.

sadna to stuka:

``ali1 begat ali1 thats clear. No offence but whose misfortune was it to beget you?``(sadna)

a not so ``pure`` brahmin may be? Another one for you, stuka!

Arrested Development

Oooooh,Oh! So very, very sorry. I am still living in a time wrap. Can`t just get away from the sweet old childhood crap. Must have offended your sensibility. I apologise and thank you for making me realise that I need to be a Cynic No.1 to survive.

Cynic No.1, how does that go for a Bollywood title.

Mona

Stuka,

Um...you would be a moderate Republican or a conservative Democrat...if you want I could send you some of the platforms some progressive South Asian American groups organize on. While the Dems and Reps are virtually indistinguishable lately, there are some shining individuals who seem to instinctively gravitate towards a greater decency, and I don`t want to overlook them. What is your opinion?

regards

Sadna,

Hey!What I had meant was the right wing in the U.S.. In the same way that middle class Muslims are loath to question the domestic anti terrorist policies that will undoubtably marginalize immigrant and undocumented communities here in NYC, several more conservative middle class Indian-American communities are joining in the patriotic fervor. There are Indian (Sikh, Hindu) community leaders who have said things like, er, ``We are not Muslims, we are Sikhs, we`re with you. We`ve been fighting against Muslims for hundreds of years...`` ( a quote from an older Sikh gentlemen who was concerned about these divisive tactics of self protection). I guess that I take South Asian coalitioning for granted; the Hindus/Sikhs/Muslims I work with feel that we must stand together...

In terms of Arafat...I am not his greatest fan. I think he`s quite frail at this point. Hopefully a more progressive leader will emerge from this crisis; I`d like to see Hanan Ashrawi being considered. The other thing is, I`m not sure of Arafat`s visit to India. Was it the usual making the rounds visit, or was it to receive political support? How does the Indian govt. feel in terms of Palestinians? How do NGOs stand on the issue of the occupation? I ask these questions sincerely...

That bin Laden and his ilk are not to be trusted is clear. I myself am at a loss in suggested how to address this problem in a way that doesn`t target a civillian, peaceable population. But maybe a greater mind should have a go at it...In any case, two situations should be addressed because they are so reprehensible; Iraq and the Occupied territories. My hope is that Afghanistan gets some of the well deserved support it needs (preferably from the US, USSR and Pakistan) and that Pakistan heads toward a more democratic, secular direction. Is it so impossible for India and Pakistan to develop a friendlier relationship?

regards

Stuka #43
``What I meant was that it is their misfortune that they begat Ali#1.``
ali1 begat ali1 thats clear. No offence but whose misfortune was it to beget you?

Sorry about the typo on the Czechs. Prague Spring was in 1968, of course.

Re: SameerJB and Ali1

At the risk of getting in the middle of a private brawl, perhaps some clarification for both of you is in order. Many Eastern European nations rose up in revolt against the Russian (aka Evil) Empire. A partial list, from memory, would be E. Germans in 1953 (not sure of exact date), Hungary 1956 and the Czechs in 1956. Force, or the threat of it, was used to also cow down the Czechs in 1948 and the Poles also, I believe, in the 1950s.

However, the Afghan case is somewhat different, although the Afghans are also the only anti-Soviet forces who had a safe haven and very strong external support. The coup in 1978 was really a palace coup, done without the knowledge or approval of the USSR, since Daoud Shah had been installed in 1973 with the help of the Afghan Communist Party (either the Parcham or the Khalq faction, I can never keep them straight). Against Soviet advice, who based it on their experience in Central Asia, the Parchamis (I think that was the faction in charge: Hafizullah Amin and the man he murdered later on, whats his name?) insisted on a series of very radical reforms that insured a widespread rebellion against the central government. What were these reforms? Some truly unIslamic ones:

1 Abolition of the Islamic Waqfs.
2 Compulsory female education.
3 Stopping the payment of ``stipends`` (i.e., bribes) to the various tribal maliks and assorted pirs, faqirs and other religious leaders.
4 Radical land reforms to give land to the tillers.

It is only AFTER these reforms had been announced that you have mass uprisings against the Communist government. Prior to this, the common Afghan or his malik could not have cared less who ruled in Kabul as long as the maliks were paid off and left alone. Incidentally, this is not the first time that the Afghans have thrown out a progressive government: Amanullah Khan was removed in the interwar period when he attempted to implement fairly radical reforms.

BTW, the Afghan resistance was on its last legs and the Soviets had almost pacified the country by the mid-1980s when the Americans decided to ship Stingers to the Mujahideen. This ended Russian air superiority and convinced them that the war was unwinnable with the current extremely low level of Russian troop strenght: approx. 115,000, down considerably from the troop level immediately after the Russian invasion. In contrast, the Americans in Vietnam in 1968-9 had just over 550,000 soldiers (not counting the Army of the Republic of Vietnam and 200,000 Montagnard Highlanders armed, trained and commanded directly by the CIA).

In some ways, the Afghan Communist rulers were the only halfway decent government the Afghan people have had for a very long time. Although Hafizullah Amin and Noor Mohammed Taraki (I knew I would remember his name eventually) were not particularly nice people (the murder of Daoud Shah and his entire family, as well as the ruthless use of the secret police against suspected opponents was much worse than anything done by Daoud Shah, himself no angel), they at least had the aim to move Afghanistan out of barbarism. Under them, the average Afghan woman had for the first time some hope of living a real life.

Regards.

Samina

``A logical partnership, but the progressives I work with are working on organizing platforms that challenge these agendas within South Asian American communities.``

When you say ``progressives``, what exactly does that mean with reference to mainstream American politics. I like the Republicans, specifically the moderate, bro-business, pro-choice faction, not the far right Christian conservatives. Would that disqualify me from being ``progressive``?

Sadna / Nasah:

What is wrong in having chooda?/chamaar forefathers or even being a chooda/chamaar?``

Well, ahem ahem, uh, well, actually, there is nothing wrong in being a chooda-chamar. What I meant was that it is their misfortune that they begat Ali#1. Actually, yes, that`s what I meant. No disrespect to Choodas/Chamars, who happened to be Ali#1`s forefathers, I just extend a lot of sympathy to them.

I`ve seen this article in many places. It is tremendously compelling. If people have questions about the events since September 11, I often refer them to this article.

I, too, am neither a hawk or pacifist - no rational person truly wants war, especially misdirected war. Osama does, but he is not a rational person. Yet cowardice at this moment would also be wrong and dangerous for Americans and other innocent people around the world.

The best thing we can do as life-loving civilians is be prepared to help one another when things start blowing-up.

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saminashah #34

You might find this interesting:
http://www.indian-express.com/ie20011005/ed5.html

saminashah #34
``Unfortunately, I have read and heard reports from progressive sources and South Asian Americans who live and work in Hindu middle class communities that the Hindu right wing is really aligning itself with the US and Israel right wing``

Do you mean the present government of India? As far as I understand it, the Indian government`s support of the US in its current campaign `against terrorsim` is nonideological. Its been generally the practice in India, to call all-party meetings to be briefed on international stances. Recently building national consensus become a matter of necessity for the Indian government in power which is a coalition of 23 parties with a shaky majority in Parliament. Hey as I said elsewhere, even Musharraf had a meeting with the leader of the Indian opposition. When Musharraf invited the Hurriyat leaders to tea in n Delhi, the main opposition party consulted the government before decided whether to attend.

btw, India and US have had joint cooperation on terrorism for the last 1-2 years at least. You have to understand, bin Laden-inspired or connected groups have been operating in India for quite a while. Just because they happen to be Muslim and BJP happens to be `Hindu-oriented`, doesnot mean India should ignore bombblasts in trains or IEDs blowing up civilians in Kashmir.

The warming of relations with Israel, may be partly ideological and partly realpolitick. But Arafat was in N Delhi just this year, if I remember right. The way I understand it, India has been countering the semi-heavy?(I donot know much about these things) artillery of jihadis in Kashmir(which obviously come from across the border) with only handheld assault weapons. I believe politically, India cannot use heavier weaponry to fight the jihadis and match their artillery, so it has to learn better techniques, and have better equipment, which is where Israel can help. The previous Defence Minister George Fernandes even went to Vietnam to link up with their expertise on this subject.

So I believe its pragmatism more than ideology.

I also believe its much more than ideological concerns or even the crassest of self-interest guiding international reactions and actions all over the world post 9/11. I think most countries recognise its a race to prevent bin Laden and his soul brothers from strengthening their network getting their hands on stuff like biological and nuclear weapons.

I think most of the world has understood that they(bin Laden and his ideological brothers) are not the sort of people who look for guidance toward universal humanist principles. Nor will their(bin Laden`s and his ideological brothers`) actions be guided by reasoned rational conclusions from weighty arguments waged in open and free public forums, when they decide how they should use these weapons.

Sadna to Stuka:

``What is wrong in having chooda?/chamaar forefathers or even being a chooda/chamaar?``

Sadna got you on this one, Stuka. L’em see how you extricate yourself out of this.

Stuka #36

What is wrong in having chooda?/chamaar forefathers or even being a chooda/chamaar ?

Apart from their unique good fortune of being the objects of disdain of people like you, that is?

SameerJB:

Don`t mind Ali#1. He is still suffering from the complexes of his chooda chamar forefathers.

hijack Drama WAS ATTEMPT TO LINK WITH ILLEGAL BANNING OF S.I.M.I.







OZHIKODE: Kerala state president of the banned Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) K T Muhammed on Thursday took strong exception to the alleged attempt by the authorities to link Wednesday`s ``hijack drama`` with the ban on the organisation even before the details of the hijack were available.

The reported claims by authorities that the hijackers could be those who were against the ban on SIMI, even before getting details, was part of ``the game plan by the Centre to defame the organisation and project it as an extremist outfit,`` he said in a statement here.

The move was significant as the government was finding it difficult to place detailed proofs to endorse its ban before the proposed tribunal, he said, alleging that the ``Government is trying to foist charges to keep the ban on.``

Claiming that the efforts were on by the Centre to link SIMI with any extremist activities in the country, Muhammed said the organisation would fight the ban legally.

Sadna

Thanks for your support...I`d rather have you on my team than not.

The U.S. government is really using this time of confusion and pain to pass a broad base of laws that will be punitive for immigrants and people of color. For example, the detentions, surveillance, charity donations, the threat of deportation. And while we have the Pakistani govt. ambivalently cooperating with the US, it seems that a potentially dangerous situation is likely in Pakistan viz the pro-Taliban minority. Unfortunately, I have read and heard reports from progressive sources and South Asian Americans who live and work in Hindu middle class communities that the Hindu right wing is really aligning itself with the US and Israel right wing. A logical partnership, but the progressives I work with are working on organizing platforms that challenge these agendas within South Asian American communities.

The conversation on Chowk tends not to stray from the box in terms of examining a lot of strongly held prejudices against Muslims/Hindus, etc. You see the same polarities represented on each message board, the same unexamined arguments. On the other hand, I know of ONE Chowkie who is reading Said to understand a differing viewpoint...so I guess theres hope.

regards

ylh #22 ``Since Chowk doesn`t value what is really important anymore, writers like myself have been forced to take refuge elsewhere...``

Oh the tragedy! (violin please).

Oh the shame!! (more violin please).

Just like Abdus Salaam, one day you will get the Nobel Prize and all chowk citizens will hang their heads in shame (remember to put in a good word for me in your memoirs though - for posterity`s sake you know).

PS I will get to the article you pasted too perhaps later on...

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If you want to be informed of BEHIND THE SCENE actions of FBI,CIA,MOSSAD,Counter TERRORISM,ASSASINATION without tear or blinking of eyes of the same grand presidents whom Jery Farwell & Pat Robertson bless with New & altered polluted BIBLE ,IN THE NAME OF GOD,whom shamless sinner ,in public crying for GOD -hypocrites

http://geocities.com/americanterrorism/

ali1 reply 25

``Ah... It is so difficult to explain the concepts of freedom, liberty and honor to Punjabis like you, SameerJB. ``

Lets exclude Punjabi sikhs in this shameless category.

saminashah #24
``NOW I understand why there are certain Chowkies who make all kinds of whinging excuses for the versions of democracies we are seeing at work.``

Not to worry, just name them and we`ll go get `em ! :)

Did i not say TERRORISM linked with U.S. Foreign POLICY ?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/011004/6/bfeo.html



Women must work to temper U.S. `cowboy` response to terror crisis, says group

By STEPHEN THORNE



Click to enlarge photo

OTTAWA (CP) - Canadian women should focus on tempering America`s ``cowboy-inspired`` response to the terrorist attacks in the U.S. and push for justice through the courts, a major women`s group said Thursday.

The Canadian Women`s March Committee also defended the right of Sunera Thobani, a well-known feminist, to make a controversial link between the attacks and U.S. foreign policy. Thobani, former head of the National Action Committee on the Status of Women, told a conference on Tuesday that Canadian women should not be coerced into supporting a U.S. foreign policy that is ``soaked in blood.``

The March Committee emphasized that women have more pressing issues to address than blame.

``War is not the answer to the atrocious crime against humanity committed on Sept. 11, 2001,`` said the group, which says it represents a majority of women`s organizations across Canada.

NAC vice-president Denise Andrea Campbell said Thursday that Thobani broadened discussion on the issue and put some context to the attacks.

``We really support her right - and, actually, all Canadians` right - to ask: why is this happening?`` Campbell told a news conference.

``But on behalf of women across the country . . . we are certainly more interested in looking at the immediate issue at hand, which is: how do we respond to what has happened?``

The committee opposes what it calls U.S. President George W. Bush`s ``vengeful and war-mongering response`` to the attacks. It says the world should follow United Nations guidelines and seek justice in courts of law.

``We expect our governments to lead through compassion, justice and respect for the dignity of all people,`` said the committee declaration.

There is no justification for a full-scale military response to the attacks under UN-defined grounds of self-defence, said Andree Cote, director of law reform at the National Association of Women and the Law.

``It`s so very dangerous in times like this to have unilateral, cowboy-inspired actions that will create possibly a lot of deaths of innocent civilians and international unrest,`` said Cote.

Thobani, a women`s studies professor at University of British Columbia, called the United States ``the most dangerous and the most powerful global force unleashing horrific levels of violence`` in the world today.

Her remarks were condemned by politicians and others as outrageous.

Cote said the reaction to Thobani`s statements has been more troubling than the statements themselves.

``I think this is one of the reasons that we`re opposing war,`` said Cote.

``It creates a climate of intolerance; it creates a climate where basic civil liberties can be violated, where basic freedom of expression is put in jeopardy. We`re very worried by this type of thing.``

She said media and other responses to Thobani`s speech harkened back to the 1950s era of U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy, who conducted a witchhunt for phantom communists, destroying many innocent lives in the process.

``We want to have a democratic discussion on how to solve this horrible crisis,`` said Cote.

Campbell described Canada`s response so far as an encouraging reinforcement of the country`s traditional values of humanitarianism and peace.

Ref Fatuous #: 22

So, I suppose you want me to believe that the hearts of Arab mo-fo`s who flew planes into the WTC Towers bled for the Vietnamese, Cubans, Hondurans, Nicaraguans, Koreans and all other people oppressed by the US.

How come the Vietnamese, Cubans, Hondurans, Nicaraguans, Koreans and all other people oppressed by the US didn`t fly even one plane into any US building in the last 50 years?

And why is it that your Pakistani black heart bleeds for the Palestinians and attempts to whitewash the crimes of the Islamic Ummah?

Pea-brained idiot!

And all of you who were posting articles about how it was all a Jewish conspiracy because 4,000 Jews who worked in the WTC Towers did not show up for work and thus escaped death? Isn`t Pakistan, by the same logic, the ONE AND ONLY LOGICAL CULPRIT, being the largest recipient of benefits such as lifting of all sanctions?

What is the difference b/w Pakistanis and Afghans in terms of their representaion at the state level?

In a way there is no difference b/w Afghans and Pakis. Afghans have Talibans (ex-American-lovers) on their heads, and we have Paki Army on our heads. They can not get rid of Taliban type jahil and self-righteous ppl, and we can not get rid of Paki military type `jungjoo` and self-righteous ppl, who like to get involved in every conflict around the world without seeing their size.

But atleast there is a big differnce b/w Taliban and Paki Army. No one can in this world can say that Talibans hand over their declared guest to an arrogant and threatening army (This is Pathan culture, of which they r rightly proud of). But an attorney in USA (back in 95-96) has said that `Pakistanis can sell their mothers for few bucks` (in context of handing over Ramzi Yousuf to USA without any legal process).

No wonder why Pakistani Army is again pimping their mother land.

RE: Sameer JB # 3

[``Why did Afghans fought against Russians? All the problems of Afghans lie in answerinig this simple question.

How many Hungarians, Czech, Poles etc died to get rid of Russian occupation? What made Afghans a special case. The answer is illiteracy, faith, blind following, tribal culture``]

Why did Americans fight against the British?

Why did Algerians fight against the French?

Why did Vietnamese fight against the Americans?

Why are Kashmiris fighting against the Indians?

They are all illiterate, tribal people I think.

Why have the educated, cosmopolitan Punjabis never fought against any occupier?

Ah... It is so difficult to explain the concepts of freedom, liberty and honor to Punjabis like you, SameerJB. But think... if it wasn`t for the ``illetrate, tribal and blinded by faith`` George Washington, scums like you wouldn`t be enjoying the fruits of freedom today.

But hey, maybe you would`ve been happier to have been raised in Sardar Lehna Singh`s harem and scrubbing his horses for a living.

The US spent two billion in fighting the USSR in Afghanistan. They allied with militant Islamists like bin Laden, as they allied themselves with drug traffickers in the eighties. They destroyed the Afghani landscape and orchards. They did not put a single penny into the Afghani infrastructure. And then they washed their hands and walked away on one of the poorest nations in this world.

Not only will the ``war on drugs and terrorism`` last for many years, but the trafficking and terrorism will increase, as the US continues to make unscrupulous deals with questionable allies.

On the upside, my dear hawks, weaponry sanctions have been lifted from both India and Pakistan. We can expect to see an escalating amount of tension and saber rattling on the border between India and Pakistan next year, all superboosted by new US military toys! Also, it has been reported that the BJP-led Indian government has been less than protective of their Christian and Muslim minorities. NOW I understand why there are certain Chowkies who make all kinds of whinging excuses for the versions of democracies we are seeing at work. This is their version of democracy at work, not ours. Ah, the joys of pragmatism.

Re: Deepika Reply #17

#############################################

Indian minister says reported hijack a false alarm: NEW DELHI, Oct 4: A reported hijack of an Indian plane on a domestic flight Air Boeing 737 from Bombay to New Delhi was a false alarm, Indian Civil Aviation Minister Shahnawaz Hussain said today. ``It was a false alarm. The confusion arose between ATC Ahmedabad and the pilots,`` Hussain told reporters, adding that all passengers had left the plane safely.

#################################################

Dont get me wrong i mourn death of 9-11 tragedy ,just as mine

BUT I DO THE BURNT ALIVE VIETNAMESE,KOREAN,NAPALM OVER PALESTENIANS HOUSE,STARVING IRAQI WOMEN & CHILDREN TOO

Those who were also father,sister,mother,sons & daughters but not repeatedly flashed every 5 mins for 3 weeks.Do our mind need repititons to FEEL?

Ever since the United States Army massacred 300 Lakotas in 1890, American

forces have intervened elsewhere around the globe 100 times. Indeed the

United States has sent troops abroad or militarily struck other countries`

territory 216 times since independence from Britain. Since 1945 the United

States has intervened in more than 20 countries throughout the world.

Since World War II, the United States actually dropped bombs on 23

countries. These include: China 1945-46, Korea 1950-53, China 1950-53,

Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-60, Guatemala 1960, Congo 1964,

Peru 1965, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia 1969-70, Guatemala

1967-69, Grenada 1983, Lebanon 1984, Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s,

Nicaragua 1980s, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991-1999, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998,

and Yugoslavia 1999.

Post World War II, the United States has also assisted in over 20 different

coups throughout the world, and the CIA was responsible for half a dozen

assassinations of political heads of state.

The following is a comprehensive summary of the imperialist strategy of the

United States over the span of the past century:

Argentina - 1890 - Troops sent to Buenos Aires to

protect business interests.

Chile - 1891 - Marines sent to Chile and clashed with

nationalist rebels.

Haiti - 1891 - American troops suppress a revolt by

Black workers on United States-claimed Navassa Island.

Hawaii - 1893 - Navy sent to Hawaii to overthrow the

independent kingdom - Hawaii annexed by the United

States.

Nicaragua - 1894 - Troops occupied Bluefields, a city

on the Caribbean Sea, for a month.

China - 1894-95 - Navy, Army, and Marines landed

during the Sino-Japanese War.

Korea - 1894-96 - Troops kept in Seoul during the war.

Panama - 1895 - Army, Navy, and Marines landed in the

port city of Corinto.

China - 1894-1900 - Troops occupied China during the

Boxer Rebellion.

Philippines - 1898-1910 - Navy and Army troops landed

after the Philippines fell during the Spanish-American

War; 600,000 Filipinos were killed.

Cuba - 1898-1902 - Troops seized Cuba in the

Spanish-American War; the United States still

maintains troops at Guantanamo Bay today.

Puerto Rico - 1898 - present - Troops seized Puerto

Rico in the Spanish-American War and still occupy

Puerto Rico today.

Nicaragua - 1898 - Marines landed at the port of San

Juan del Sur.

Samoa - 1899 - Troops landed as a result over the

battle for succession to the throne.

Panama - 1901-14 - Navy supported the revolution when

Panama claimed independence from Colombia. American

troops have occupied the Canal Zone since 1901 when

construction for the canal began.

Honduras - 1903 - Marines landed to intervene during a

revolution.

Dominican Rep 1903-04 - Troops landed to protect

American interests during a revolution.

Korea - 1904-05 - Marines landed during the

Russo-Japanese War.

Cuba - 1906-09 - Troops landed during an election.

Nicaragua - 1907 - Troops landed and a protectorate

was set up.

Honduras - 1907 - Marines landed during Honduras` war

with Nicaragua.

Panama - 1908 - Marines sent in during Panama`s

election.

Nicaragua - 1910 - Marines landed for a second time in

Bluefields and Corinto.

Honduras - 1911 - Troops sent in to protect American

interests during Honduras` civil war.

China - 1911-41 - Navy and troops sent to China during

continuous flare-ups.

Cuba - 1912 - Troops sent in to protect American

interests in Havana.

Panama - 1912 - Marines landed during Panama`s

election.

Honduras - 1912 - Troops sent in to protect American

interests.

Nicaragua - 1912-33 - Troops occupied Nicaragua and

fought guerrillas during its 20-year civil war.

Mexico - 1913 - Navy evacuated Americans during

revolution.

Dominican Rep 1914 - Navy fought with rebels over

Santo Domingo.

Mexico - 1914-18 - Navy and troops sent in to

intervene against nationalists.

Haiti - 1914-34 - Troops occupied Haiti after a

revolution and occupied Haiti for 19 years.

Dominican Rep 1916-24 - Marines occupied the Dominican

Republic for eight years.

Cuba - 1917-33 - Troops landed and occupied Cuba for

16 years; Cuba became an economic protectorate.

World War I - 1917-18 - Navy and Army sent to Europe

to fight the Axis powers.

Russia - 1918-22 - Navy and troops sent to eastern

Russia after the Bolshevik Revolution; Army made five

landings.

Honduras - 1919 - Marines sent during Honduras`

national elections.

Guatemala - 1920 - Troops occupied Guatemala for two

weeks during a union strike.

Turkey - 1922 - Troops fought nationalists in Smyrna.

China - 1922-27 - Navy and Army troops deployed during

a nationalist revolt.

Honduras - 1924-25 - Troops landed twice during a

national election.

Panama - 1925 - Troops sent in to put down a general

strike.

China - 1927-34 - Marines sent in and stationed for

seven years throughout China.

El Salvador - 1932 - Naval warships deployed during

the FMLN revolt under Marti.

World War II - 1941-45 - Military fought the Axis

powers: Japan, Germany, and Italy.

Yugoslavia - 1946 - Navy deployed off the coast of

Yugoslavia in response to the downing of an American

plane.

Uruguay - 1947 - Bombers deployed as a show of

military force.

Greece - 1947-49 - United States operations insured a

victory for the far right in national ``elections.``

Germany - 1948 - Military deployed in response to the

Berlin blockade; the Berlin airlift lasts 444 days.

Philippines - 1948-54 - The CIA directed a civil war

against the Filipino Huk revolt.

Puerto Rico - 1950 - Military helped crush an

independence rebellion in Ponce.

Korean War - 1951-53 - Military sent in during the

war.

Iran - 1953 - The CIA orchestrated the overthrow of

democratically elected Mossadegh and restored the Shah

to power.

Vietnam - 1954 - The United States offered weapons to

the French in the battle against Ho Chi Minh and the

Viet Minh.

Guatemala - 1954 - The CIA overthrew the

democratically elected Arbenz and placed Colonel Armas

in power.

Egypt - 1956 - Marines deployed to evacuate foreigners

after Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal.

Lebanon - 1958 - Navy supported an Army occupation of

Lebanon during its civil war.

Panama - 1958 - Troops landed after Panamanians

demonstrations threatened the Canal Zone.

Vietnam - 1950s-75 - Vietnam War.

Cuba - 1961 - The CIA-directed Bay of Pigs invasions

failed to overthrow the Castro government.

Cuba - 1962 - The Navy quarantines Cuba during the

Cuban Missile Crisis.

Laos - 1962 - Military occupied Laos during its civil

war against the Pathet Lao guerrillas.

Panama - 1964 - Troops sent in and Panamanians shot

while protesting the United States presence in the

Canal Zone.

Indonesia - 1965 - The CIA orchestrated a military

coup.

Dominican Rep- 1965-66 - Troops deployed during a

national election.

Guatemala - 1966-67 - Green Berets sent in.

Cambodia - 1969-75 - Military sent in after the

Vietnam War expanded into Cambodia.

Oman - 1970 - Marines landed to direct a possible

invasion into Iran.

Laos - 1971-75 - Americans carpet-bomb the countryside

during Laos` civil war.

Chile - 1973 - The CIA orchestrated a coup, killing

President Allende who had been popularly elected. The

CIA helped to establish a military regime under

General Pinochet.

Cambodia - 1975 - Twenty-eight Americans killed in an

effort to retrieve the crew of the Mayaquez, which had

been seized.

Angola - 1976-92 - The CIA backed South African rebels

fighting against Marxist Angola.

Iran - 1980 - Americans aborted a rescue attempt to

liberate 52 hostages seized in the Teheran embassy.

Libya - 1981 - American fighters shoot down two Libyan

fighters.

El Salvador - 1981-92 - The CIA, troops, and advisers

aid in El Salvador`s war against the FMLN.

Nicaragua - 1981-90 - The CIA and NSC directed the

Contra War against the Sandinistas.

Lebanon - 1982-84 - Marines occupied Beirut during

Lebanon`s civil war; 241 were killed in the American

barracks and Reagan ``redeployed`` the troops to the

Mediterranean.

Honduras - 1983-89 - Troops sent in to build bases

near the Honduran border.

Grenada - 1983-84 - American invasion overthrew the

Maurice Bishop government.

Iran - 1984 - American fighters shot down two Iranian

planes over the Persian Gulf.

Libya - 1986 - American fighters hit targets in and

around the capital city of Tripoli.

Bolivia - 1986 - The Army assisted government troops

on raids of cocaine areas.

Iran - 1987-88 - The United States intervened on the

side of Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War.

Libya - 1989 - Navy shot down two more Libyan jets.

Virgin Islands - 1989 - Troops landed during unrest

among Virgin Island peoples.

Philippines - 1989 - Air Force provided air cover for

government during coup.

Panama - 1989-90 - 27,000 Americans landed in

overthrow of President Noriega; over 2,000 Panama

civilians were killed.

Liberia - 1990 - Troops entered Liberia to evacuate

foreigners during civil war.

Saudi Arabia - 1990-91 - American troops sent to Saudi

Arabia, which was a staging area in the war against

Iraq.

Kuwait - 1991 - Troops sent into Kuwait to turn back

Saddam Hussein.

Somalia - 1992-94 - Troops occupied Somalia during

civil war.

Bosnia - 1993-95 - Air Force jets bombed ``no-fly zone``

during civil war in Yugoslavia.

Haiti - 1994-96 - American troops and Navy provided a

blockade against Haiti`s military government. The CIA

restored Aristide to power.

Zaire - 1996-97 - Marines sent into Rwanda Hutus`

refugee camps in the area where the Congo revolution

began.

Albania - 1997 - Troops deployed during evacuation of

foreigners.

Sudan - 1998 - American missiles destroyed a

pharmaceutical complex where alleged nerve gas

components were manufactured.

Afghanistan - 1998 - Missiles launched towards alleged

Afghan terrorist training camps.

Yugoslavia - 1999 - Bombings and missile attacks

carried out by the United States in conjunction with

NATO in the 11 week war against Milosevic.

Iraq - 1998-2001 - Missiles launched into Baghdad and

other large Iraq cities for four days. American jets

enforced ``no-fly zone`` and continued to hit Iraqi

targets since December 1998.

These * *100 * * instances of American military

intervention did not include times when the United

States:

(1) deployed military police overseas;

(2) mobilized the National Guard;

(3) sent Navy ships off the coast of numerous

countries as a show of strength;

(4) sent additional troops to areas where Americans

were already stationed;

(5) carried out covert actions where American forces

were not under the direct rule of an American command;

(6) used small hostage rescue units;

(7) used American pilots to fly foreign planes;

(8) carried out military training and advisory

programs which did not involve direct combat.

U. S. Government Assassination Plots



Following is a list of prominent foreign leaders whose assassination

(or planning for same) the United States has been involved in since

the end of Second World War. The list does not include several

assassinations in various parts of the world carried out by anti-Castro

Cubans employed by CIA and headquartered in the United States:

LIST A: NON MUSLIMS

1949 - KIm Koo, Korean opposition leader

1950`s - CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of numerous political figures in

West Germany

1955 - Jose` Antonio Remon, President of Panama

1950`s Chou En-lai, Prime Minister of China, several attempts

on his life

1951 - Kim Il Sung, Premiere of North Korea

1950s (mid) - Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader

1955 - Jawar Lal Nehru, Prime Minister of India

1959 and 1963 - Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia

1950s-70s - Jose Figueres, President of Costa Rica,

two attempts on his life

1961 - Francois ``Papa Doc``Duvalier, leader of Haiti

1961 - Patrice Lumumba , Prime Minister of Congo (Zaire)

1961 - Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic

1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam

1960s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, more than

15 attempts on his life

1960s - Raul Castro, high official in government of Cuba

1965 - Francisco Caamanao, Dominican Republic opposition leader

1965 - Pierre Ngendandumwe, Prime Minister of Burundi

1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France

1967 - Che Guevara, Cuban leader

1970 - Salvadore Allende, President of Chile

1970 - General Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile

1970s and 1981 - Gen. Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama

1972 - General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence

1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire

1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica

1983 - Miguel d`Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua

1984 - The nine commandantes of the Sandanista

National Directorate

1980`s - Dr. Gerald Bull, Canadian Ballistics Scientist

assassinated by Mossad in Belgium.

Partial List of Muslim Leaders Assassinated or

Attempted Assassinations

1950`s Sukarno, President of Indonesia

1957 Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt

1960 Brigadier General, Abdul Karim Kassem, Leader of Iraq

1980-86 Muammar Qaddafi, Leader of Libya, several plots and

attempts upon his life

1982 Ayatullah Khomeini, Leader of Iran

1983 General Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan army Commander

1985 Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadllallah, Lebanese Shiite Leader

(80 people killed in that attempt)

1991 Saddam Hussein, Leader of Iraq

Reference: Blum, William, ``KILLING HOPE - U.S. Military and

CIA Interventions Since World War II,`` Appendix III

U.S. Government Assassination Plots, page 453,

Common Courage Press, Monroe, Maine 1995. ISBN 1-56751-052-3

Very likely Victims :

April 4, 1979 - Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Leader of Pakistan, for pursuing making

of

Nuclear Bomb.

August, 1988. General Ziaul Haq, Military Leader of Pakistan.

1995 - Murtaza Bhutto, Son of ZUlfiqar Ali Bhutto, Anti-American

would-be Leader - Pakistan.

March 25, 1975 - King Faisal of Saudi Arabia through his Nephew, Saudi

Arabia

for imposing 1973 Oil Embargo.

August 24, 1999. Mullah Mohammad Omar, in Kandhar, Afghanistan.

|

``À``List of Known Assassination Plots

1950`s Sukarno, President of Indonesia

1957 Gamal Abdul Nasser, President

2001 Since early this year more than 40 Palestinian leaders assassinated

through surrogate Israel.

Here is an interesting article. Please read.

http://www.timesofindia.com/articlelist.asp?catkey=-21289bullsht=enormous

Grateful India celebrates Powell`s statement

NILANJANA BHADURI JHA

NEW DELHI: Celebrations broke out and sweets were distributed in the streets of the capital after US Secretary of State Colin Powell denounced the ``terrible terrorist act that killed innocent civilians`` in Kashmir.

Foreign Secratary Chaptila Iyer told reporters that India was ``pleased`` and ``indebted`` for Powell`s kind words. ``We have been trying to draw the world`s attention towards Pakistan sponsored aatank-waad in different parts of India but we have been ignored so far``, she said.

Foreign Minister Bhadwant Singh sounded even more positive. ``Our coming generations will be grateful to Colin Powell``, he said. He also said that India has asked all of its states to provide 5000 kunwari kannhya (virgins) each for the American soldiers, if they ever decide to use the Indian bases and facilities. He said that we would have done ``more`` but for the precarious male/female ratio in the country`s population. In response to a question he said that we can always ``provide`` Shammi Kapoor and Prem Chopra if there is a battallion from San Francisco`s Castro district.

He contemptously dismissed a reported statement by Maulana Manhoos Azhar in which the Maulana had accused the Indians of being a nation of castrated eunuchs which was not willing to fight its own wars. ``He has been in our custody for 3 years and we have repeatedly checked his shalwar. He is a casarated eunuch himself``, Bhadwant Singh said. ``In fact both of us played eunuch-eunuch on our flight to Kandahar``, he recalled.

Dear Priya,

Thanks for making Tamin Ansary`s letter available to us. The ways in which we can help to educate ourselves and the U.S. public about some of political, historical, social and economic realities attendant to Afghanistan involve a little commitment on our parts, esp. in the U.S.A.. If you are part of a university community, go to events or lectures that discuss some of the issues being discussed in Tamim`s letter. If you are not involved in a college community, find relevant groups and get involved in amd sponsor/organize opportunities for public rational discourses. Push your university or spiritual/religious/social/political community centers to invite speakers who will offer little heard viewpoints as Tamim`s. And then go and be a part of the dialogue.

Priya, are there organizations to which we can offer our assistance?

regards

hi

Ahmed Rashid has spent 23 years of his journalistic career, writing on Afghanistan. His book on Taliban got published recetnly, incidently, before much was triggered by that Frakestein monster that our Pak military has produced. This milittary of ours works under the assumption that 60% ethinic majority has the

right to dominate the whole country. And they did

their best to apply this rule in Afghanistan in the last 2 decades. And they ended up pimping

their homeland and prestige for `few` (well, they

would even question that!!!) bucks. On CNN, a

shameless smile spread on the face of General

Musharraf, when Amanpur asked him about the `deal`

with USA.

Anyway, here is Ahmed Rashid`s address---an

eye-opener, i should say about this frankestein army:

I am deeply grateful to the Council of HRCP, its

elected representatives and members for awarding me this coveted prize. I would especially like to thank HRCP Chairman Afrasiab Khattak, General Secretary Hina Jilani, Director I.A. Rehman as well as Asma Jehangir and Dr Mobashir Hassan. I have no words to describe my feelings at the moment because this is for the first time, after more than 20 years in journalism, that a Pakistani organisation with such enormous credibility as the HRCP, has acknowledged my work, on covering Pakistan, Afghanistan and Central Asia. No amount of international recognition can make up for being acknowledged in one`s own country, in one`s own home and by one`s own peers who I so deeply respect. I am

deeply moved and enormously grateful. HRCP`s work in increasing awareness about human and minority rights, poverty and political and press freedoms in Pakistan has no parallel.

I would also like to pay tribute to Nisar Osmani, a journalist of impeccable credibility who faced down three military regimes and who was a mentor and a friend to so many young, aspiring journalists like myself for decades. We have every reason to remember him here today as Pakistan goes through another period of turmoil and crisis. I would also like to pay tribute to the other two recipients of this prize Zamir Niazi and Razia Bhatti of Newsline who advanced

the cause of a free Press, investigative journalism and support for the democratic process. I would also like to thank my parents and my sisters who have been a constant source of inspiration and especially my wife Angie and our two children who have put up with my long absence from home.

I have covered the brutal, tragic conflict in

Afghanistan for the past 23 years. That conflict also took me to Central Asia for the first time in 1988. My persistence has been due to the enduring courage, warmth and formidable character of the freedom-loving Afghan people who today, even after all these years of

war, are still facing an unprecedented assault on

their independence, culture, history and faith in

Islam as a religion of peace and equal rights for men and women. But my persistence in sticking to this story for so long has also been my desire to journalistically write about and unveil the secretive decision making process of Pakistan`s Afghan policy over the past 23 years. During the past ten years Pakistan has been involved in the war in Afghanistan alongside one or another of the Afghan factions and most Pakistanis have been unaware of this involvement

and the implications it is having in the body politic

of our country. This is what I would briefly like to

speak to you about today.

Much as I respect and admire the Afghan people, as a

Pakistani I can only want, first and foremost, the

best for my own country. For too long we have all

stood as silent spectators and watched as Pakistan`s

political and economic development and progress is

sacrificed on the altar of a foreign policy wanting to

support one or other Afghan faction and committing

excesses of interference, which has only encouraged

other neighbouring states to step up their

interference in Afghanistan.

Pakistan played a heroic role in supporting the Afghan

people`s resistance to the invasion by Soviet troops

in 1979. At great risk to its own integrity Pakistan

hosted millions of Afghan refugees, allowed its soil

to be used for Western military supplies to the Afghan

Mujahideen and internationally advocated the

territorial independence and integrity of the Afghan

state. Why is it today that every ordinary Afghan you

speak to has not a kind word to say about Pakistan? In

fact since Kabul fell to the Mujahideen in 1992 our

policies have created a wave of criticism and even

hatred for Pakistan amongst many Afghans. The majority

of Afghans blame us for being the single biggest

contributor to the continuing war in their homeland.

Today we stand isolated in the community of nations

due to our Afghan policy. We stand isolated in the

region as all our neighbours condemn our policies,

while they send munitions to opposing factions in

Afghanistan.

Let us not beat about the bush here. For the past ten

years successive elected and non-elected governments

in Islamabad have poured munitions and logistic-

backing in support of first one and then another

Afghan faction. Quite separately during the past seven

years, between 50-60,000 young Pakistani militants

have gone to fight in Afghanistan. Many have died

there never to return, many have participated in the

worst ethnic and sectarian massacres that have taken

place in Afghanistan`s history. Pakistani interference

has contributed to the enormous human suffering in

Afghanistan.

Pakistani munitions have helped destroy Afghan cities

and villages and given the justification for other

neighbouring countries to do the same. I ask you here

today, with such policies have we embraced the Afghan

people or have we created more hatred for ourselves

and tension in the region. As Afghanistan`s largest

neighbour, should Pakistan have a policy and a role as

a peace maker by treating all Afghan ethnic groups

equally or should we continue to take sides in their

war?

Today Afghanistan is utterly destroyed, there is no

functioning state, the humanitarian crisis there is

the gravest in the world, the country is the center

for the export of Islamic extremism across the region,

terrorism, heroin and weapons. The reason is not the

fault of the poor Afghan people, but the ambitions of

a handful of ambitious warlords and the continued

interference of outside powers who fuel this war. I

can safely tell you, cut the supplies of military

equipment to all sides and the war machines will dry

up within months.

What has been the result of these policies for

Pakistan`s internal dynamics. In the 1980s we suffered

from the spread of what was then called ``the

Kalashnikov culture``. Today I do not need to tell you

that the situation is much worse. For the past ten

years every single ministry in Islamabad, every single

domestic policy programme, even our desperately needed

economic revival are partially being held hostage by

our Afghan policy - whether it is trying to encourage

foreign investment, dealing with the sectarian issue,

promoting modern educational programmes or ending our

diplomatic isolation. As citizens don`t we have a

right to know how much of our money is being spent in

Afghanistan, ntervening in a useless war? We should

also remember that the much talked about process of

the ``Talibanisation of Pakistan`` is not purely an

Afghan phenomena. This process started in Pakistan

where some Afghans attending religious schools imbibed

an interpretation of Islam that was against the ethos

of our founding fathers. I have shown in my book how

we exported this process to Afghanistan and now it is

being re-exported back to us. We should not blame the

Afghans for this, we should blame ourselves and

correct our mistakes.

Why are we pursuing such policies? We are told that we

need a friendly regime in Kabul so that we can acquire

``strategic death,`` counter India in the region,

promote Islam — but what kind of Islam I ask you–and

that the whole world is wrong by crtiticising us and

we alone are right. I have consistently argued that

stability, progress and self-respect in Pakistan

cannot come from pursuing the chimera of strategic

depth in foreign fields. That is first built at home

with modern, progressive policies and a foreign policy

aimed at making friends and creating new markets. We

need peace in our borders, democracy, education, jobs

and a rock solid economy to give our people faith in

the country. In the 1965 war against India, Iran

provided us true strategic depth by allowing our war

planes and ships to use their ports and airbases, but

today Iran is bitterly antagonistic to Pakistan

because of our Afghan policy. Today, the Central Asian

Republics are busy extraditing all Pakistanis, be they

businessmen, traders or students accusing them,

unjustifiably in most cases - of promoting radical

Islam and unrest in their countries. India has now

fully jumped into the Afghan fray by providing

military equipment to an opposing Afghan faction. I

ask you, is this the way to make friends or create new

export markets for our goods or tame the dangers of

sectarianism and religious extremism or promote

democracy?

How can a country like Pakistan faced with such

monumental economic, ethnic, sectarian and political

problems justify its policy of involvement in the war

next door? This has only been possible because of the

total silence and acquiescence of Pakistan`s

politicians, the partial silence from civil society

and the media and the insistence of the military in

maintaining the status quo while refusing to consider

policy alternatives. These are the kind of issues I

have been raising for the past ten years. What is

desperately needed today is courage by all Pakistanis

to question where these policies are taking us and to

demand information and debate of what they mean for us

and the future of our children.

I would like to end now, but not before offering an

apology. In my personal and humble capacity I would

like to apologise to the brave Afghan people for the

consequences of Pakistan`s recent policies in

Afghanistan. I would like to unconditionally apologise

for the deaths of countless Afghans, which have been

caused by Pakistani interference. I would like to

apologise for the part that we have played in the

destruction of your cities, your culture, your

traditions and your freedom to choose your own

government. As a small tribute to the Afghan people I

would like to return this award of Rupees 100,000 to

the HRCP, with the stipulation that they use it for

the benefit of Afghanistan`s suffering women and

children. This award is named the courage in

journalism award.

Let me assure you that I am not in particular

courageous. I have just tried to do my job while

covering a war, the end of which I consider as a vital

to Pakistan`s stability, progress and self-respect in

the international community. I hope you and other

Pakistanis, in particular the silent politicians, have

the courage to speak out so that we make friends not

enemies beyond our borders and build a truly stable,

democratic and progressive homeland

Thank you for your patience.

Bangladesh return to fold of islamists coalition rather than meaning less pandering to Calcutta based Expatriate bangal,planning to control this independent country under its haegemony

http://independent-bangladesh.com/news/oct/03/03102001ts.htm#A1

http://independent-bangladesh.com/news/oct/03/03102001ts.htm#A1

Massive victory for BNP-led alliance

Alliance gets two-thirds majority

by Special Correspondent

The BNP-led four-party alliance won a landslide victory in the eighth parliamentary election by bagging 202 seats out of 299, according to unofficial results announced by the Election Commission yesterday.

With more than two-thirds majority in the House the alliance is poised not only to form the next government but also has enough strength to change the Constitution without support from the opposition.

The BNP that waged movement and fought the October 1 election jointly with the Jamaat-e-Islami, Jatiya Party (Manzur) and the Islami Oikya Jote is pledge-bound to form a coalition government with them after the announcement of official results through a gazette notification by the government.

The BNP has a share of 186 seats and the Jamaat-e-Islami 16. The Awami League won 62 seats while the Jatiya Party (E) got 14 seats and Independents 3. JP (Manju) and Krishak Sramik Janata League of Bangabir Kader Siddiky got one seat each.

The Election Commission will hold re-election in 16 constituencies where polling was postponed due to violence or other irregularities. There would be fresh election in the Cox’s Bazar-3 constituency where election had to be postponed because of the death of the BNP candidate, Advocate Khalequzzaman, during electioneering.

This is for the second time that the BNP got such a massive mandate. In the 1979 parliamentary elections, the party captured 207 seats out of 300.

The Bangladesh Awami League secured 293 seats out of 300 in the 1973 elections, official records show.

The results of Bandarban constituency are being airlifted from remote centres as those were delayed due to inclement weather.

A total of 1,933 candidates, including 1449 from 52 political parties, contested the election from 299 constituencies. In 1996, 2,574 candidates contested the election.

In the last election, 81 parties were in the fray. This time 37 women contested for 47 seats, as against 36 in the last general election.

BSS adds: Begum Zia, who is poised to be the next prime minister of the country, won all five seats she contested attaining the highest number of votes in a Bogra constituency.

Most of the heavyweights of Bangladesh Awami League (AL), including party chief Sheikh Hasina (in one seat), presidium members and former ministers had to undergo the pains of defeat in the general elections.

But a few of them, who contested from more than one seat, also got the taste of victory.

AL President and former Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina contested from five constituencies but was successful in four seats. Presidium member Abdul Momin, Suranjit Sengupta, General Secretary Zillur Rahman and former MP Sheikh Helaluddin, succeeded in one seat each, although they contested from more than one seats.

The party’s organising secretary and former Home Minister Mohammad Nasim contested from three constituencies but was defeated in two seats. Presidium member and former Industries Minister Tofail Ahmed contested from three seats but lost all.

Chief whip of the last Jatiya Sangsad Abul Hasanat Abdullah lost both the seats he contested.

But defeat could not touch Abdur Razzak, presidium member and former Water Resources Minister, who fought in two constituencies and won both. Former Commerce Minister Abdul Jalil staged a comeback as parliament member winning for the first time after 1971.

Much talked-about former AL MPs Joynal Hazari, Dr. Iqbal, Kamal Majumder, Moqbul Hossain and Shamim Osman were all defeated.



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Mumbai-Delhi plane hijacked

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

By: A Chalomumbai Correspondent



October 4,2001



An Alliance Air Boeing 737 flight from Mumbai to Delhi was hijacked late tonight, acccording to Civil

Aviation Minister Shahnawaz Hussain. The Minister said a hijack distress call had been received by the Air Traffic Control (ATC) in New Delhi where the plane had landed at around one A.M.

The Alliance Air is a subsidiary of the Indian Airlines. The plane is now parked at an isolated bay runway 27 of the airport. Police and fire vehicles have rushed towards the site. Unconfirmed reports put the number of passengers on board the flight at 52.

Nobody wants to ``Let Our Friend Pakistan Down``

It`s ``Our Friend Pakistan`` itself -- that insists on going down -- with its jihadi criminals running amuck -- inside and outside the borders -- with no rule of law -- while professing to fight a phony war against terrorism.

`To get any troops to Afghanistan, we`d have to go

through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first.

Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I`m going.`

Looks like people just dont watch CNN.

Gopal: Why is race so important to you?? If it helps - the original bloodline of all of us was a two inch tall mammal that scurried around hiding from the dinosaurs. If that is going too far back, then we can jump 64 million years and lo and behold: the first little monkey climbs down from the tree in the Rift Valley in Kenya. He was great...great granddaddy to you and to me, and to Nicole Kidman and to Sonny Liston too. Hope this helps you solve your need to find a bloodline.

Ras, that was a beautiful poem. Thank you!

``The invasion approach is a flirtation with global war between Islam and the West.``(Tamim Ansari)



With all the civility and and decency that I can muster right now -- under the circumstances -- I would have to say that the above mentioned statement/article is full of asinine crap and shitty anal ysis.

Don`t Let Our Friend

Pakistan Down

By LANNY J. DAVIS

nce again, Pakistan has stepped up to the line at the request of the U.S. — at great risk to itself. And once again, the question must be asked: Will the U.S. remember, not only at times of peril, as now, but during fair weather?

Based on history, the answer is, unfortunately, unclear. Perhaps this crisis will finally convince U.S. policymakers there are better ways to treat a friend, even one whose system of government is at times not entirely to our liking.

Make no mistake, the courageous decision of Pakistan`s leader, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, to support the U.S. campaign against Osama Bin Laden, including likely military action against Afghanistan`s Taliban, puts the nation itself — and the general personally — at great peril.

Since its founding more than a half-century ago, Pakistan has attempted to establish a pro-Western, moderate government that respects secular values, similar to Turkey`s model. But in recent years, especially after the fundamentalist takeover of Iran, Pakistan has been threatened by Islamic extremists seeking to exploit poverty and illiteracy as the fuel for anti-Western hatreds.

Now Pakistan is in a far weaker position to resist these extremists, who look to Bin Laden as thei