Declaration of Jehad

Sigalph:

We are not on the same page regarding the issue under discussion. Sorry, I do not intend to discuss this matter any further with you.

Polite Wishes.

re RanaRansher #132

The picture in the link below complements your poetry.

http://members.aol.com/mcmelectronics/freep/pepsi.jpg

re zahra

``I expected a better understanding from a person of your caliber. ``

My understanding is limited by my principles-I am a libertarian. Even if the China case is made in semi-humor, I find China`s (and earlier India`s) policies to control family size and gender to be patently immoral and in contravention of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. From there to state-supported and state-mandated abortion is but a small step. Your call for women who cannot do such and such not to `bear a male child` is rather chilling. Something similar, if not same, was called for by an ancient Egyptian ruler a few thousand years ago.

A child, male or female, is a gift of God. I have seen and known too many frustrated couples who would have given anything they had for the blessing of a child. Look them in the eye and tell them that they should avoid having a boy.

Better still, sometimes read a poem or two that Ghalib composed when his `male child` Arif died in utter infancy.

Ever since the world turned its attention on Islamic terrorism, all that the Muslim world has offered is myriad interpretations of Jihad. Nobody has cried unequivocally that Jihad is outdated, voilent and barbaric, much less declaring it totally inhuman and against basic tenets that govern humanity. With every passing day the world gets few more quotations and few more interpretations of a supposedly ``hallowed``

tradition. When a principle has been moulded to such a form that its original intention itself is suject to debate, then it`s time to relgate such a principle to obscurity. Jihad is the bloody sword of Islam (whatever its origin) and unless

it is realised that it has outlived its utility(if any) like many other medieval traditons, it will keep confronting the rest of the world. And the mullahs will continue to hold sway over the masses with the fear that Islam is in danger or that the world is out to get them.

Pullu

``Beauty in the shadow of violence`` - By Holland Cotter, Art/Architecture Section, 10/07/2001 Sunday Section.

I am just posting the ending very well written passage. The rest of the article can be read on the website.


``If you look, you can find the seeds of zealotry in Islamic art just as surely as you can in Christian art: in exclusionary emblems, in flashes of messianic fervor, in an insistent control of objects and images that can be used in many ways. What you will also find, though, are the tools of transformation: generosity, patience, intellectual alertness, a thirst for balance and a trust in the fragile beneficence of beauty that is both actively utopian and utterly reality-based, as the experience of art should be.``

kambakhtoN

apne Jihad meiN khud hi jal ja
tu aisaa diwaana ban jaa

Stuka #129

hear, hear!

Sigalph:

I expected a better understanding from a person of your caliber. By promoting a ban on the male babies, I am not bashing men. I am trying to point out the pathetic upbringing they receive from the women. In short, women should realize their role: producing a child is very different from raising one. Our country should put a ban(like China did)on those families who are unaware of the role they play in their kid`s life. Ok, now, China did not put a ban for that reason, but there was a ban to control the population. I wanted to use China`s example to appreciate the step of implementing a ``ban.``

I am not sure if you have read the poem on: if a child learns x, he becomes y. There are about 10 or 15 characteristics that were identified. It`s a very sweet poem; and I have seen it at my aunt`s house, when I was a teen-ager. I used to find that very appealing. My aunt was a widow with three sons; and when I look back, I do realize the efforts and sacrifices that must have gone into, raising the three accomplished sons.

Lastly, I will sum it up: If the women, do not realize, the role, they play, in the upbringing, of their male-offsprings, then they should not bear a male child.

There will be an addendum to this post. And I expect you to come up with a few questions.

-later

Zafar:

Where were you boss? I have been missing your presence on Chowk. Vacation? You have been given the responsibility (unasked ) of reining in the said cyber warriors, so please grace us with your presence and shame us with your rectitude and calm demeanour.

Zahra,

Thanks! Unfortunately I`m a bit far off. It looks like a very interesting agenda, do pl. attend if you can and tell us about it.

What is there to be scared of, though? I would myself be cautious in taking what they say at face value for two reasons. Firstly, they may have a slightly different perspective from ordinary people because they may have their own ideological blinkers on. Secondly they may tend to sensationalize things a bit because it happens to be their ``bread and butter``.

But, without knowing anything specifically int his regard about these organisations and individuals listed, I think its great that there are such organisations which are active in these fields. I`m sure there will be some useful stuff like facts collated, or information from their field work and experience and scholarly insights.

Reply Tahmed # 35

``What is the foundation of Islam??``

Um...Minister Sahib....could it be submission to God, aka peace?

Looking forward to your correction

Zafar

PS Did I miss it, or has your question elicted fewer responses than it should have from our cyberwarriors?

zahra,

You are the first pakistani from the very first days of chowk to say categorically that honour killing is evil. Many do not realise the importance of traeting the weaker members of society, women and children fairly. When taliban came to power and killed the shias and appropriated their wives, the world did nothing, when they banned the women from education and started killing them, it was declared question of sheria law interpretations. When a society collectively, through the institutions start attacking the minorities and the weaker members, you know for sure that it is on a path of distruction.

Now look at pakistan, look at what new things have been introduced to the TNT creation. Huddod ordinance, evidence laws, blasphemy laws, legitimisation of honour killings. All these are attackes on the weaker, done by a society that sorry, Zahra, you are a part of. How many articles have any of you ( i mean the educated women of pakistan) have written to voice your opposition. Zeejha on interpreting an accomodating jihad, bina sha on a hindu girl being married to a dog, aisha sarwari on something equally trivial, some other female journalist on paki mangos.

If some changes do not take place at the institutional level relating any of the aspcts mentioned above, it may not be very far when bonbs will be raining on pakistan. Women are the miners canaries, when they fall over, the end is not very far. Not more than ten years for pakistan as we know it. Iraquised pakistan, what shall we call it, Raquistan.

I recognise that you all belive that nuclear bombs will protect you all from everything, but I do believe that knocking of the few paki bombs will not be much of a problem.

Regards and best wishes to do something to save your country.

re zahra

You will love this line from PJ ORourke:

``This is why women do so well in business: the business world was created by men; men are babies; women are GOOD with babies!``

But, please why this non-stop man-bashing. Or are you on your internship with NOW or another femnazi outfit? Ban male babies? Are, ladke nahin hue to maikhana aur bazar-e-husn kaise chale ga?

Neptune #118, ``South-east-asia??? What have the poor chaptas done now to deserve this?``

You know what we mean ;)

The chaptas are a nice bunch, they don`t meddle in anyone`s affairs. Wish they were cuter though.

Just kidding.

Sadna:

I am not sure of your whereabouts, but if you would like to attend the following, do look into it! Such sessions also scare me to death :)

Take Care.

PS1: Scout, Aicha, Sarwari, Yasser, Solitude, Omar and Studebaker: please do look into the following.

PS2: Sac, agur tum yeh note purho toa koshish kur kae wahan puhunch jana takae tum bhee kuch add kur sako aside from collecting the bahishti zaewars(jewelry).

PS3: MR. JB rather than siding with Sac`s efforts to collect bahishti zaewars, I suggest you also add your vichaar to the following and listen and learn.

WOMEN OF PAKISTAN AND INDIA: RIGHTS, ECOLOGY, ECONOMY, AND NUCLEAR
DISARMAMENT
October 25-28, 2001
Westfield State College
Westfield, MA

ORGANIZED BY THE GLOBAL WOMEN`S HISTORY PROJECT AT WESTFIELD STATE COLLEGE

THURSDAY OCTOBER 25
7pm -- Opening Remarks and Keynote Address: ``Confronting Our Own Reality,
Making Our Own Peace``
Urvashi Butalia, Kali for Women
Nighat Saeed Khan, Women`s Action Forum
Delegate from Kashmir TBA
Introduction by Dr. Amrita Basu, Amherst College

8:30pm -- Reception

FRIDAY OCTOBER 26
9:30am -- Welcome

10:00am to 12:00 noon -- Presentations by Delegates
Nuzhat Kidwai, War Against Rape
Ajitha Kunnikkal, Anweshi Women`s Counseling Center
Ayesha Khan, Anti-nuclear Movement
Kalpana Sharma, Anti-nuclear Movement
Prema Vora, Sakhi

12:30pm to 2:00pm -- Lunch

2:00pm to 4:00pm -- Workshop Sessions
Nuclear Disarmament
Resisting Violence: Women`s Organizing at the Grassroots

SATURDAY OCTOBER 27
9:00am to 12:00 noon -- Presentations by Delegates
Asha Bajpala, Tata Institute of Social Sciences
Urvashi Butalia, Kali for Women
Nighat Saeed Khan, Women`s Action Forum
Beena Sarwar, Journalist
Farida Shaheed, Shirkat Gah
Delegate from Bangladesh, TBA

12:00 noon to 1:00pm -- Lunch

1:00pm to 2:30pm -- Plenary Session, TBA

3:30pm to 5:30 pm -- Workshop Sessions
The Global Economy and Its Impact on Women
Religion, Communalism, State

7:30pm -- Performance
Nataraj Performing Arts of India presents ``A Glimpse of India`` dance
concert, by Ranjanaa Devi and Nataraj Dancers

SUNDAY OCTOBER 28
2:00pm to 4:00pm -- Special Session
``The Meaning of Religion and Politics in Everyday Life: US, India,
Pakistan Perspectives``

REGISTRATION: $25
Lunch provided for $5/meal
Low income and group rates available
For more info call (413)572-5580
Childcare may be provided -- for more info, call (413) 585-1045
Conference participants who wish to bring children aged 12-17 may do so at
no additional charge

TO REGISTER CALL (413)572-5580
FOR MORE INFO ON THE GLOBAL WOMEN`S HISTORY PROJECT, VISIT
www.1.WSC.MA.EDU/GWHP

Jayaprakash Jee:

I think you are ghoomo-fying in chakkars here. I have told you myself that a law could not be implemented against a cursed practice inspite of having an elected government. What does that say? I hope that you have the eyes to read between the lines.

Your arguments are pretty clear to me, unfortunately you are not willing to concur with my ending suggestion. That says a lot! Unlike you, I know the mindset of people from my origin damn well. Just by implementing a law you are not doing a favor to them. Yes, a law should be there! But, there is much more to it. When your upbringing is screwed up, how the hell are you going to abide by any definitive regulation? How would you even understand that? Think!!! Women have created these monsters themselves!

I hate to indulge in any argument that brings(India vs Pakistan) issues and how things are done in one place and cannot be implemented elsewhere. I just quoted a scenario that I came across. I did not like what I was told as I did not want to hear that. Probably, I wanted to assume perfection and reality was way too far from there. In fact, in the past few years, all my perfection-oriented themes in life are coming down to ground zero. A pretty rude awakening!

Do not ever assume that any sane Pakistani will side with silly and ridiculous practices of Honor Killings. Crime is a crime and has to be dealt with seriously. But this sense comes with prioritizing one`s agenda in life. Ironically, that`s something we are not very good at. Despite our family values and goody-good stuff, our social frame-work is becoming shallow and weak. Nations who want to progress have to have some defined core values that are true for everyone.

Lastly, I am a strong proponent of banning male babies(or giving them to monks)in the subcontinent for a decade or so. I want you to bless my suggestion by saying, ``May your suggestion bring peace and harmony in the area.`` I would appreciate that! Please say that three times.

Polite Wishes.