Afghanistan Reflections

Ras, I answered you sometime ago, but it got published under a different thread. I think I know what happened, but anyway, I apologize for the mix up.
regards
Iqbal

sameerjb and fuzair?

What's this? A blast from the past?!

Dear Saqeba N. Iqbal,

Could you please tell me which article of mine

this information was in?

I also do not have your email address.

My apologies for any inaccurate informtion.

Ras

Mr. Siddiqui,

I would like to point to a factual error in your piece. My father, Air Chief Marshal (Retd.) Muhammad Anwar Shamim, has never been in prison for drugs, or any offense, ever. He has served honorably, and retired with honor. I would be grateful if you will provide this correction to whomever was your source of misinformation about my father. If not satisfied, please email me and we can discuss your sources.

Thank you,
Saqeba N. Iqbal,
Attorney At Law

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WHO WOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MURDER OF INNOCENT TALIBAN AND INNOCENT AFGHANIS IN THE NAME OF JIHAD? – ALTAF HUSSAIN

London – 27 November 2001

Mr Altaf Hussain, MQM Founder and Leader, has said that the righteous ulemas (religious scholars) must issue a fatwaa, according to the jurisprudence (sharia, principles of Qisas & Diyat) as to who would be held responsible for the murder of innocent Taliban and innocent Afghanis in the name of Jihad? Either on the Taliban or those who created Taliban, preached them of jihad, trained them, armed them and sent them to Afghanistan and deserted them after the announcement of US attacks following September 11, 2001. Mr Hussain was addressing a gathering of ulemas, belonging to different schools of thoughts, maslak and fiqahs, at the Iftaar at Khursheed Begum Memorial Hall in Azizabad, Karachi on Monday. Members of MQM Coordination Committee and former members of Provincial and National Assemblies also attended the Iftaar.

Speaking on the situation in Afghanistan, Mr Hussain said that as a result of the war against terrorism, numerous innocent Afghan youth, elderly, women and children are being murdered, who are neither Taliban nor the ones who created the Taliban. Whereas those who created Taliban, preached them of jihad, trained them, armed them and sent them to Afghanistan to end Rabbani’s Government, have now deserted the Taliban after the announcement of US attacks following 11 September 2001. Mr Hussain said that the righteous ulemas (religious scholars) must issue a fatwaa, according to the sharia, principles of Qisas & Diyat, that who would be held responsible for the murder of innocent Taliban and innocent Afghanis in the name of Jihad or as a result of the US and Allied bombing? Either on the Taliban or those who created Taliban, armed them in the name of jihad, funded them, trained them, sent them to Afghanistan and deserted them in the time of need.

Mr Hussain asked what kind of role was it that three days before 11 September, it was being declared that the Taliban Government is independent and autonomous, we recognise them and the world should also recognise them, however, the Taliban is deserted and abandoned within a day after 11 September, when the US announced to act against the Taliban. Similarly in 1971, the Pakistani Army deserted hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis in Bangladesh, who sided with the Army to save Pakistan. After 30 years, millions of stranded Pakistanis are miserably living in the Red Cross Camps. The borders of their own country has been closed for them. He asked, who is responsible for the sufferings of these stranded Pakistanis, their sisters and daughters? Similarly, during the Pakistan Movement, the Muslims of Minority Provinces were hoodwinked in the name of two-nation theory. They were misguided that Pakistan would be the nation for all the Muslims of the Subcontinent. However, after the creation of Pakistan, the borders were closed for the Muslims of the Minority Provinces and they were left on their own in India. Who would be held responsible for bloodshed of millions of Muslim youth, elderly, women and innocent children during the struggle for the creation of Pakistan?

Mr Hussain said that today, the US officials are stating that if Osama Bin Laden or Mullah Omer are given refuge in the tribal areas of Pakistan then those areas would also be bombarded. Mr Hussain asked that who would be held responsible if innocent civilians would die as a result of this bombardment upon tribal areas? Mr Hussain said that where are those who were daily protesting against United States, carrying out processions armed with kalashinkovs and were announcing to wage jihad along with the Taliban? He said that Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Maulana Fazl-Ur- Rehman, Maulana Sami –Ul- Haque, Maulana Noorani and other so-called religious and jihadi leaders, who were claiming to support Taliban. They should have gone along with their convoy to Afghanistan and laid down their lives alongside the fighters of the Taliban to prove the truthfulness of their claims. He said that for the past 54 years, to serve their own interest and rule, the Pakistani Establishment, imprudent civil and military rulers have formulated defective policies and as a result, Pakistan is now in a position, where it has no friends in the South Asia Region.

Referring to Benazir’s India visit, Mr Hussain said that uproar was raised when he expressed his wish to write a letter to the Muslims of India and inform them of the plight of Mohajirs and innocent Sindhi people in Pakistan. He said that in the past when he had said that he would visit India and meet with the Muslims of India, venomous columns were written against him, he was branded as an Indian agent, however, what would the people say on the Indian visit of Benazir? Mr Altaf Hussain said, “when Army Generals, High Officials, political and religious leaders, intellectuals and even Benazir could visit India then why could he not go there? I have also been invited to visit India and from the Sajjada Nasheen of Hazrat Khwaja Nizam Uddin AulyaRH to visit the Dargah in Delhi” and also by the Gaddi Nashhen of Khawaja Sahab of Ajmer Sharif. Addressing all the ulemas, Mr Hussain sought for their permission to visit India to visit the Dargah of Hazrat Nizam Uddin Aulya and the Darbar of Khawaja Sahab at Ajmer Sharif, other revered personalities and to meet the Muslims of India. The ulemas unanimously replied that he should visit India.

Mr Altaf Hussain said that MQM is the only political party of the country, which is practically struggling for sectarian harmony amongst different schools of thoughts, maslak and fiqahs. Everyone respect each other and embrace each other. He said that we believe that no one is allowed to coerce their fiqah or maslak upon others. Everyone should stay on their fiqah, maslak and belief; and must not provoke others fiqah, maslak and belief. Mr Hussain said that the one who believes in the Oneness of Almighty Allah and the Prophethood of Mohammad (PBUH); and worship Allah Almighty, keeps away from dishonesty, fraud, mischief, provocation – the Allah Almighty accepts his worship. Those who confront people against each other in the name of fiqah or maslak, they are neither the friends of Islam nor of the fiqah or maslak. He said that until yesterday, he was the only one and now the entire world is stating that in Pakistan it is not the ulemas who are responsible for spreading sectarian tension, in fact it is the Establishment of the country, which orchestrated sectarian massacres and attacked the mosques and imambargahs killing innocent people.

He further said that the Establishment through their agents targeted the Shia people, particularly the Shia ulemas and intellectuals. He said that he has always condemned the barbaric killings of innocent people despite the fact that he was dubbed as Shia agent, accused me of taking money from the Iranian Embassy, some said that Altaf Hussain is himself a “shia” and his real name is Altaf Hussain Jaffri. He said, “if promoting sectarian harmony amongst Muslims is termed as “shia” then I am proud of being a shia.” He said, “If I say that do not murder of Hindus without any reason and for this I am labelled as Agent of Hindus. If I say that in your city or country, it is wrong and immoral to damage the worship places of the Christians, Parsees and people of other religion; and if I were labelled as the Agent of Jews and Christians, even then I would consider these allegations as an honour. Similarly, if we speak of Muslims and I say to Shia and Sunnis to respect each other, do not damage each others mosques or imambargahs; and I would not mind if I am labelled as the Agent of any fiqah or maslak.” Mr Hussain said that on the Day of Judgment, everyone has to answer to Allah Almighty. The Allah Almighty on the Day of Judgment would decide whether I am wrong or those who accuse me are wrong. He said that the Allah Almighty is not only the God of Muslims but also the God of Universe. He loves all His creations, feeds them either they be Muslims, non-Muslims or an animal.

Mr Hussain said that if it is legitimate to label each other as ‘infidel’ on the basis of fiqah or maslak then the portrait of Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah must also be removed because he was not of the same fiqah or maslak as of the Taliban. In fact, he was a Khoja Asna-e-Ashri Shia. Allama Iqbal RH had written eulogies paying tributes to Hindu God the “Ram” and “Guru Nanak”, then why “Rahmat-u-Allah-o-Alayeh” is written after his name.

Mr Hussain said that we should establish a Forum comprising of scholars of all sects and jurisprudence to proliferate religious tolerance and harmony amongst the people of all sects and schools of thoughts to ensure that no one is termed wrong on the basis of dissent. Only God is empowered to send a dead either in haven or hell and no “Scholar “Mullah” is empowered to issue certificates for heaven and hell. He expressed his thanks to all the religious scholars present in the Seminar for co-operating with the MQM for promotion of religious tolerance.

Re: SameerJB,

Yusuf Khan is a Ranghar settled in Sindh. I don`t think that he can be called Sindhi speaking as such but if his family is from Rural Sindh, he may well speak Sindhi (which is not the same thing, of course!).

Re: Syed Ahmad,

Thanks for your detailed posts. However, I don`t think that the Army is quite as heavily Punjabi as you think it is. Of the five districts that are the tradtional recruiting areas for the Army, two are in NWFP and three are in Punjab. I believe the Army is about 70-75% Punjabi and about 15-20% Pathan. The Punjabi proportion has gone up and the Pathan down in the past decade or so mainly due to the very high migration of Pathan manpower out of Pakistan to the Middle East. Another issue related to ethnicity is how to categorize AK recurits: punjabi or kashmiri? Given that I`ve never met any kashmiri speaking JCOs/NCOs/ORs in the Army, my guess is that they would be categorized as Punjabi speakers.

There is also a fairly large contingent of Seraiki speakers (Mianwali and Bahawalpur districts) who also get lumped into the Punjabi category. There are also something on the order of 15-18 Northern Light Infantry Battalions in the Army which are Shina/Burushkazi speaking, so there is a fair ethnic mix but it is a clearly Punjabi Army. However, the officer corp is less ethnically homogenous and more representative although (Pathans excepted perhaps) all the non-Punjabi officers do learn to speak Punjabi. I knew an ethnic Sindi officer from Shikarpur dist who spoke good Punjabi because, as he said, you have to be able to speak to your men and they don`t speak Urdu or Sindhi!

Sindhi recruitment in the Army has greatly improved since the early 1980s when you had Sindh Battalions with no ethnic Sindhis in them! Some of the battalions are now almost up to their full 50% Sindhi quota and, wonder of wonders, some Punjabi officers have even learned a smattering of Sindhi!

As far as ethnic prejudice against Bengalis is concerned the Army in the 1950s went so far as to, for example, reduce the minimum height requirement for Bengalis in an effort to increase the Bengali proportion in the Army. There was a great deal of anti-Bengali prejudice in the Army but that did not stop a Bengali being promoted to Lt. Gen. (a VERY senior officer in pre-1971 days; his name escapes me now) or to have the Army`s strategic reserve in 1971 commanded by a Bengali officer (Maj. Gen. Bachu Karim). So things are far from perfect in the Army but it is still as close to a meritocracy as we have anywhere in Pakistan (although the various `nets` do make a big difference up to about Lt. Col/Col rank).

Regards to all.

Fuzair #163: Abdul Qadir Baloch is Balochi Baloch from Makran coast. Similarly VCOAS Yusuf Khan is a Sindhi. I do not know if he is from Punjabi or Pashtun settlers in Sindh or a Sindhi Sindhi.

Regarding next COAS should be taken as a wild guess because many of the current generals will retire in next 5-10 years, the time Musharraf seems to be intersted in staying as president and COAS, just like Zia. My guess is to look for a current maj. general as the next potential COAS, perhaps Qureshi. Kidwai or Syed??

My typo... The coitere in 71 was Hamid khan, Peerzada and Gul Hassan - ( i had erroneously typed in Hamid Gul)

re: Fuzair.....

[This meant that Gen. Mahmood and Usmani retired. Pretty simple. I personally thought he would have picked Usmani, since they are the closest. And Aziz is considered more of a hardliner]

The only interesting part is the resignation of Mahmood (and the fact that Musharraf has replaced Muhajirs with non-Muhajirs; both Mahmood and Usmani are Muhajirs).]

Lt Gen (Rtd) Mahmood Ahmed is from Dera Ismail khan....

Gen Shahid Aziz hails from Azad Kashmir

Lt Gen (Rtd) Usmani is a Mohajir.... ( Hyderabad Deccan)

[ I never said that all the four major ethnicities of Pakistan have equal representation in the Army. Its a simple fact of that the PakArmy`s ethnic compositon is overwhelmingly Punjabi. What my point was that the COAS of the Army is not a figurehead. He is really in charge of the Army, albeit he has to ensure that his politburo, the corp commanders and PSOs, are in sync with him. The point was that counter to the uninformed image put forward by people such as Ayesha Jalal and Tariq Ali, Pakistan Army does not equal Punjabi Army. The reality is a little bit more nuanced than these folk wish to acknowledge.
Incidentally, one of the corp commanders is, I believe, an ethnic Baluch: Abdul Qadir Baluch. Could someone who knows check this out? Is he Baluchi Balcuh or Punjabi Baluch? life, as a result of its proportion of the total population, ]


Abdul Qadir baluch – comes from the costal areas of Baluchistan – and is the first ethnic Baluch in the history of Pak army to get 3 stars…..
Fuzair you assetion is incorrect. Punjab forms 55% of Pakistan’s population - The Army Consists of over 85% ( 55% pop)from the Punjab. – 10% from The NWFP(12% pop) and the remainder 5% of the remaining minorities of Sindhi (16%) , Baluch (4%) and the mohajirs (10%) faTA & Kashmir(3%)
As a matter of fact the recruitment of the jawans is done on purely ethnocentric lines ( which was British policy_ primarily from the Districts of Rawalpindi, Jhang, Jheluim, Chakwal , gujranwala and Lahore..) – with a preference for familial relationships in the forces……
There is a marginal presence from the Saraiki belt, Baluchistan - Sindh and the Urban areas of the so-called Mohajirs., The Army has to its credit tried to recruit ethnic Sindhis …. But Sindh does not have a strong tradition for military service – consequently their numbers in the army remain low….
The Army has resisted Govt attempts to impose a ethnic quota for recruitment – claiming it will impact the efficiency of the forces…. Ironically the Army has been one of the strongest proponents of the same quota in the civilian sector – a fact which was detrimental to the Mohajirs and was used as a political ploy by the MQM…….
The Army in 50’s and 60’s practiced systematic and endemic discrimination against the East Pakistani’s ( Bengal) – and it was Mujjib who wanted to transfer Naval Headquarters to Chittagong…. – Subsequent army operations in 71- Bengal, 75- Baluchistan, 85- Sindh late 80’ FATA and in 91- Karachi were quite bloody with hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. Thus the state of Pakistan has murdered more Muslims than the Govt of India. – consequently the army is looked upon with deep suspicion in the minority provinces
Pakistan’s Army General staff is usually competent at the division and Corps level – and despite the ethnocentric biases and the provisional undercurrent in Pakistani society – promotions upto two or three stars are generally on Merit with the usual allowance for favoritism. However there is endemic discrimination against the Ahmediyya’s and the Christian minority community in promotions to the Gen staff ( Zia & post era) –

Ironically the PAF ( air force) has produced excellent Chiefs like AM Asghar Khan and Nur Khan…..
Pakistan Army chiefs…were generally quite poor until fairly recently –usually cronyism plays a major part…

Pakistani Army Chiefs have hardly been exemplary individuals……
1. Ayub Khan had a dubious record in the Punjab Boundary force but his appointment by Liaquat was based on political considerations and connections – His subsequent Siphonging of US economic and military aid and generous land grants - made his son Gohar Ayub a Dollar billionaire ( as reported by the MUsharraf Govt) ,
2 Gen Musa _ the Army chief under Ayub Presidency was generally considered a mediocre ( but honest) yes man…and events in the 65 war proved that

3 Yahya was a thoroughly honest and professional tactical officer – but was diasterous as a President and CIn C during the 71 War. Faily to grasp basic concepts of Military strategy…
His actions in East Pakistan were highly conterversial within the Army and led to several resignations incl Admiral Ahsan and Lt Gen Yakub Khan. – who refused to follow genocidal orders later followed by Generals Tikka Khan, KK NIazi, and Jerhanzeb Arbab

4 The coitere at GHQ of Hamid Khan, Peerzada and Hamid Gul were a bunch of blithering idiots although Haimd Gul was considered a good tactician ( although admitted none of them were financially corrupt) The Hamoodur Rehman Report after the 71 war gives a scathing report of the army mindset and its ethnocentric biases, and gross incompetence in both tactical and strategic levels, of the General staff

5 Tikka Khan was perhaps the worst choice as army Chief ( a Bhutto appt) – This man was a genocidal maniac – popularly known as the Butcher of Dacca by the International Press Corps…. In any civilized country he would have been given the death penalty.
7. Zia ul Haq – prominent known for his countermanding of orders in using Pakistani forces in Jordan to suppress the Palestinian revolt. ( Black Sept ) – He was subject to summary Court Martial for insubordination – charges were later dropped because of Bhutto…
Zia – ( a mediocre officer) incidentally was promoted by Bhutto for being the most compliant general- Zia started the Islamist trend in the army to relieve some of the ethnic tensions by giving it an Islamic purpose…. The Islamist Generals like Javed Nasir, Hamid Gul are products of this Islamization,,,,.

Zia along with the his fellow Generals Akhtar Abdur Rahman and Aslam Beg - had an open season on corruption. Each one of them became dollar billionaires ( or their progeny)……Fazle Haq was opening profiteering from the heroin trade as Governor of NWFP……Substantial members of the general staff ( with few exceptions ) were on the dole of civilian kickbacks or army contracts….
6 Credit must be given to Asif Nawaz, Waheed and Kakar for serving honorably and for cleansing the army General staff……- which incidentally has been the least corrupt during the MOST corrupt democratic tenures of Sharif and Benazir
An Air Chief – Anwar Shamim in prison for drug smuggling – Naval Chief Mansoorul Haq ( until recently) absconding after receiving huge kickbacks from arms manufacturers….
7 .Musharraf seems tame by comparison Incidentally he was selected not for his ability by Nawaz but for his ethnicity ( he was a Mohajir – with no threatening constituency in the army) – and atleast on the surface seems to be honest – and so are most of the General officers……( only time will tell). Certainly the present junta seems to be on the right track…- Although the Islamist tilt in the Army manage to induce some sense of professionalism ( and rooted out corruption) it also created a more radical General staff which Musharraf has attempted to tame.,..-

re: Bhardwaj # 162

Bhardwaj, caste comes in many forms. A religion can be a caste, ethnicity can be caste, economic class can be a caste if it suggests or ordains that we confine our interactions and relations to that caste.

These castes exist in our minds, and don`t go away just because we are in India, Pakistan or the Great Britain, or whether we are Hindus, Muslims, or Christians.

Re: Bhardwaj`s post

I never said that all the four major ethnicities of Pakistan have equal representation in the Army. Its a simple fact of life, as a result of its proportion of the total population, that the PakArmy`s ethnic compositon is overwhelmingly Punjabi. What my point was that the COAS of the Army is not a figurehead. He is really in charge of the Army, albeit he has to ensure that his politburo, the corp commanders and PSOs, are in sync with him. The point was that counter to the uninformed image put forward by people such as Ayesha Jalal and Tariq Ali, Pakistan Army does not equal Punjabi Army. The reality is a little bit more nuanced than these folk wish to acknowledge.

Incidentally, one of the corp commanders is, I believe, an ethnic Baluch: Abdul Qadir Baluch. Could someone who knows check this out? Is he Baluchi Balcuh or Punjabi Baluch? ;-)

Reply #: 154

``Fuzair

Regards.

PS: I included the ethnicity of the last few Chiefs as a counter to the usual propaganda that the Pakistan Army is a Punjabi Army. ``]

Fuzair,

May be it is true as you say that there is equal representation in Pak army of Sindh,NwFP,Mohajir,but your example is`NT.

First top position can`t be filled by qouta but must have the brain & capability for such head positions.

ALSO,it was Nehrus complaint that even as head of Govt.He did not have the power to appoint a peon!

I dont care what it is ,but for Pakistans integrity ,if such disparity exist ,it will be very bad for the morale of its citizen.If nothing else ,having the advantage of casteless system,Pakistan should have been much more cohesive ,united & ``plural`` than India