Afghanistan Reflections

Urstruly (34):

Forget the economy for now... I`m just glad some Talibs are getting a well deserved thrashing.. and that Pakistan has officially drawn the line on Islamic extremism and their supporters... Lets see how things progress.. theres alot more to happen in the coming days.

Stuka #21: The US will have difficulty in its anti-terrorism campaign because of certain self-contradictions. If we take the criteria of a terrorist to be someone who targets civilians, then the US has been the biggest terrorist of the 90s. This fact pinches pro-US groups, but it is a fact. The biggest terrorist of the 80s was the Soviet Union.

According to UNESCO, 300,000 innocent civilians have died in Iraq due to US actions. According to the Ramsey report, the figure is even higher.

``The annual number of deaths of children under age five grew more than tenfold from 1989 to 1999. Total deaths of children under age five from these selected causes alone during 1990 to November 1999 is 502,492.`` (Ramsey Clark, ex-Attorney General of USA, http://www.iacenter.org/rc12600.htm)

USSR killed over 1 million people in Afghanistan alone in the 80s. It used exploding toys, dropped from aircraft, to kill young Afghani kids. So by all definitions of terrorism, the US and USSR have been the two biggest terrorist nations. No if ands and buts about it. In human history, the superpowers of the time are always the biggest killers of innocent civilians, because they have to do so to maintain their superpower status.

This of course, does not justify the killings of WTC. However, it does put things into perspective, and points out some of the reasons behind the motiviations of the Arab terrorists. Until the US clears these contradictions, it will not be successful in its anti-terrorism campaigns. Bombing places is just going to intensify this campaign.

Due to this, the US needs to tread carefully. If it bombs any country outside Afghanistan, things will get out of control. Unfortunately, the people in the US state dept. are so naive when it comes to the rest of the world that they start believing their own media.

I am not quite sure how the US is going to handle Egypt and Saudi Arabia. It obviously cannot get rid of the govts., since they are strong US allies. At the same time, it cannot bomb those two countries. Assuming that they are the two headquarters of terrorism, bombing Iraq or Afghanistan isn`t going to solve the long term problem.

If I were the US, I would do the following:

- Move troops out of Saudia Arabia, and let the events take there own course there. It is quite possible the Royal family will get overthrown. However, if it does, and their are American troops there at the time, the US will get the blame.

- Stop bombing Iraq, and lift the sanctions against them. These are the two biggest acts of terrorism currently being carried out in the world. How can the US expect anyone in the Middle East to listen to it on terrorism, when it is itself killing 5,000 babies a month in Iraq (Please read UN figures if you don`t believe me).

- Get the Ariel Sharons of the world to accept the peace agreements that were agreed to in Oslo, etc. These people keep replacing the soft-line Israeli leaderships, whenever peace gets close.

- Let democracy take its course in places like Egypt and Algeria. If Islamic govts. come into power (which they will in Algeria), work with them. They will only be hostile to the US, if the US attempts to stop democracy in their countries.

- Establish close contacts with Iran. It is the only genuine democracy in the religious Muslim world. It is also non-Arab. I think Iran and Pakistan are two good potential long-term allies for the US.

- Support Pakistan in the long term. It is still one of the most pro-US countries in the Muslim world.

Once the US does all of the above, not too many people are going to complain if it attempts to carry out its, ``crusades`` against the terrorists. However, until that time, there will be too many contradictions in the US stance, to be able to successfully carry out its counter-terrorism campaigns. It is just going to produce more terrorists.

Ras sahab says:

``But before all that happens, those responsible for the mass murder of September 11th need to face justice. ``

And who will be made responsible to throw Taliban type ppl on Afghanistan and kiling thousands of ppl? Pakistani general is still saying that Pushtoons r 60% of Afghanis. So his dream of imposing pathans on Afghans (as punjabis r on Pakistanis) is still continuing.

And this is not just todays`s policy. Ever since the soviet invasion, American arsenals r channeled to just pathans groups of ISI/CIA liking. In this endeavour, relations with Iran worsened. And in order to prepare more muscles, all sorts of religious schools cropped up in cities like Karachi. The ppl studying there have nothing to do with Karachi, but they r tehre to kill shias, courtesy Pakistani army and its intelligence agencies.

Banjaara

``You are either a dreamer or simply stupid``.

I plead guilty to both. Keep your faith, the underlying reasons for the lack of unity and hostility is differing visions based on what they have been exposed to.

Could those people raise hand who were actively soliciting the idea that Paksitan will benefit economically out of this debacle? Are they still here? Excuse my uncouth eyesight but I dont see dollars running towards Paksitan. Debt is still there. Soon it will quadruple when Generals will start taking lions` share. Hello, any one out there? Or are you just too happy to see the murder of the innocent, the people you love to hate? Is that good enough for ya? anyone?

re Field Marshal(Hon.) ROmair`s babblings:

If you had an iota of self-respect you`d keep away from Chowk for a couple of months. Wasn`t there a 1000 word scholarly treatise from you(and some of your sypathisers) disputing my contention about the Islamic tendencies of the Army generals? The sidelining of the Islamist generals is the most important news coming out of Pakistan in the present imbroglio. The diehards won`t fade away into the night though. This is just the beginning.

later

-sac

P.S: Fuzair you mentioned ballroom dancing. You forgot to mention how the red light area was patronised by the officer corps since they couldn`t get dates even for official functions ;)

Shammi

I had the leadership of the founder of Pakistan in mind.

Also the story about Gen Mahmoud and Omar Sheik - the story was picked up from Press Trust of India, therefore, I`ll reserve judgement on it`s veracity, till I see it confirmed by FBI or a legitimate US paper.

Romair # 18

``Musharraf, the wily Delhi-born Muhajir that he is, has made all the right moves, at the right time.``

Now this is the patronising attitude of our superior and brave people of the Punjab that makes

them so popular from Bangladesh to Sind,from Karachi to Quetta :)))

hobbyty # 15

`` Afghanistan`s future is now recognized as being one in which it`s partnership with Pakistan, can lead it to unity and prosperity and brotherhood.``

Please go to Hayatabad in Peshawar to see the reality of unity,prosperity and brotherhood amongst the Pakhtoons of either side and their mutual hatred.You are either a dreamer or simply stupid.

Regards.

Assalamalaimum

Great writing as usual.

Aisha

SameerJB #16
`` In his judgement what were the implications of Kargil operation? My feeling is that NS-US cooperation was through IB (intelligence Bureau) of Pakistan which is under civilian control and not part of military.``

Sameer, no Indian journalist was allowed to be present at the news conference :).
Yes, it may have been the IB not the ISI which he mentioned. The transcripts of the news conference I couldnot find, but maybe some part of the video is available (in the box on the right):
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/10/09/ret.chinoy.otsc/index.html

btw, many people are wondering about the same things, you may have noticed:
http://www.dawn.com/2001/10/08/fea.htm#4

Re the clerics and the Army, well, no other member of the family, only a wife can divorce the husband :). I cannot help wondering, however, whether its a permanant estrangement. Perhaps noone really knows at this point of time.

Re: Stuka #22

I know this is going to come as a complete shock to some at Chowk but until the 1965 War, ballroom dancing (though not wine appreciation) and equitation classes used to be compulsory at Kakul (the Pakistan Military Academy). Some of my uncles still know how to waltz though the foxtrot and actually riding to hounds is probably beyond them now!

Regards.

Romair #14:

``A lot of the people who attained Shahadat, during the Kargil conflict, were around the same seniority as me. The strategic benefits of such an operation is a separate debate. I don`t hink Nawaz Sharif should have ordered it. It was a mistake. However, one thing I can tell you with quite a bit of certainity, the young officers of Pakistan who fought in this battle all blame Nawaz Sharif for sacrificing their colleagues. They do not blame Musharraf. In their opinion, either Nawaz Sharif should not have ordered the operation, or he should not have backed off, after so many Pakistanis had been killed, while achieving their objective.``

I`m glad you showed more guts than your lying govt in admitting (even if only implicitly) that Pak soldiers were involved in Kargil. Your govt tried to pull wool over the eyes of its own people and that of the rest of the world by saying that Kargil was by indigenous `freedom fighters`, just as it is lying about only Kashmiri `freedom fighters` fighting in Kashmir, `no terrorist camps in Pakistan`, `only moral and diplomatic support to Kashmir` etc etc.

More power to you.

Romair:

I think that Saudi Arabia is probably heading towards an Iran-type revolution, too. The only difference is that they do not have anything as hated as the SAVAK. The Saudi regime may just stick around -- but the cards are stacked against them. The situation in Egypt is probably scarier -- more people, and more poverty than SA.

In Pakistan, too, unless Musharraf introduces democracy, the distance between the ruled and the rulers is going to grow, not shorten. And unless Musharraf stems this tide, he may find himself in the same position as Mubarak (except that Mubarak gets a lot of US aid to bribe troublemakers in his country).

Hobbyty: ``For the second time in it`s History, Pakistan has a leadership that has in mind the supreme interests of the Pakistani nation...``

When was the first time? I am curious

SameerJB:``Once out of military, their ``smartness`` disappears as you can notice among the writings of a large number of below average and sometime outright stupid articles in Pakistani newspapers by retired military officers...``

Actually, my personal favorite is the Defence Journal (`Remebering our Warriors` section) which has the same standard list of insipid questions for each military `luminary` (e.g. Tell us about your early life, parents). Some of the answers are hilarious (I kid you not!!), e.g: `Wheat was sold at 1 1/4 rupees a maund. (40 Kilo), Meat 1/4 rupee a seer ( Kilo), Milk - 10 seers for one rupee. Pure desi ghee - 1 1/4 seer for one rupee. Chicken weighing one seer for about four annas (1/4 rupee).` All this in a professional military journal:)

Anyway, this story recently ran in the Dawn about the fired ISI chief. The last line is very chilling:

``Informed sources said there were enough indications with the US intelligence agencies that it was at Gen Mahmud`s instruction that Sheikh had transferred 100,000 US dollars into the account of Mohammed Atta, one of the lead terrorists in strikes at the World Trade Centre on Sept 11, it adds.``

http://www.dawn.com/2001/10/09/top13.htm

Romair/Fuzair:

The only people who

are going to get promoted now in the Army are the wine drinking,

dining and dancing types like himself (this was already the case in

the Air Force and Navy).

Would this mean reciprocal membership benefits in our respective Defence Service officers Institutes?? ;)