Military Action Begins in Afghanistan

Re semipreciousme #: 97

[Ali1:

“I DONT WANT ANY MORE AFGHANS IN MY PAKISTAN. PAKISTAN`S BORDER WITH AFGHANISTAN MUST BE FENCED RIGHT AWAY”

….i agree….2.5 million and counting is much more than pakistan can handle esp when there are already so many poor of our own]

So much for the Ummah! Use your zakat to help pay for the relief of those poor Afghans.

On the other hand, you want to take in 7 million Kashmiris so long as they bring the dowry of land.

RSaxena #49 ``So now even the beehive on her head is India`s fault? Or mine? Give it a break man.``

I never said anything about the woman`s hairstyle, and you are merely twisting what I said: ``I guess you should know about hurting behinds. Your remarks on the other board about the hairdo of the Pakistani ambassador when she came on Oprah Winfrey were of the kind that could only come from either a catty woman or a man with similar inclinations...``

...you may continue polluting chowk with your ``Oh how I hate those silly Pakistanis`` posts. Maybe Jay Thakeray and Moron Ranasher will join you too and the three of you can wiggle the night away.

I thought I will share this glitter of hope in such endless dark nights of despair with the wonderful ``Chowkies``. Keep dreaming...

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/oct/10jk.htm

Well for the moment consider the following (you can do the resaerch - these are available in most news reports (print as well as tv, interviews as well as reports) - afterall we are all reporters/journos etc. Remember I said elsewhere- Musharraf did not side with the Americans because of National ietrest or some sense of justice - he did it because it was conviniennt for the establishment and the elite.

(a) it was convient that there was a fire in the army HQ - only paper was lost apparently. What sort of paper was it that was lost!

(b) JeM man, Fazloor telephoned the ISI chief about the Srinagar blasts - there are apparently telphone intercepts

(c) apparently the heroin stocks and processing facilities of the ISI were not destroyed completely by the people in charge - it was supposed to be a hamfisted operation - and the NGOs going into those areas found these out (perhaps the members of the same NGOs were also preaching to thepeople christianity)

(d) (this next point is just speculation and has no factual basis - it cannot be ascertained without data).Many well-informed persons in Pakistan believe that the terrorist strikes in the US were actually carried out by the Al Jihad of Egypt with the collaboration of the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HUM) of Pakistan. (Note: HUM has mutated as well)

(e) leading members of the ISI new about the money transactions of the terrorists, and may have participated in it!

Note all of this has been said in public and is available in print. Think about the implication and ramifications of the above even if 3 out of the five are true. And realise the precarious situation.

For sometime, even if indians on chowk cannot do so, learned and intelliegnt pakistanis should get over the india fixation, and trying to out do each other in their support of the establishment and current elite, and think about the problems ahead. And the role models or beacons for a road map are so few and far between that I am afraid unless you look to elsewhere, you will not find signposts to get out of the current quagmire.

The game is no longer Kashmir or afghanistan. Its time most realised that.

Ali1:

“I DONT WANT ANY MORE AFGHANS IN MY PAKISTAN. PAKISTAN`S BORDER WITH AFGHANISTAN MUST BE FENCED RIGHT AWAY”

….i agree….2.5 million and counting is much more than pakistan can handle esp when there are already so many poor of our own…as for the fencing of borders, the mountains make it really hard….bbc the other day was saying that even with the borders sealed, about 200+ afghanis a day are still entering pakistan through the mountains…..

Musharraf shows political skill

WASHINGTON, Oct. 10 (UPI) -- Why did President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan purge his army command this week?

He did so, according to most interpretations in the U.S. media, to prevent anti-American generals from blocking his pledged cooperation with the United States in its current military operations against al-Quaeda terrorist bases in Afghanistan.

But the moves did too other things, too. They greatly strengthened the already massive clout of Pakistani generals and secret service chiefs who have been backing the long and bloody guerrilla war against India in neighboring Kashmir. And, most of all, it further cemented Musharraf`s steadily growing grasp on power in the nation where he seized it, supposedly as an interim measure, two years ago.

Musharraf`s purge Monday even took the job of his powerful intelligence chief, Gen. Mahmoud Ahmad. At least four other prominent officers were also sacked or forced into premature retirement.

Three of them were longtime allies of Musharraf who helped him topple Pakistan`s last civilian government almost exactly two years ago in October 1999.

There were, indeed, good reasons to see many of Musharraf`s moves as eliminating extremist supporters of the Taliban from within Pakistan`s ruling military power structure. Ahmad and Army Deputy Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Muzzaffer Usami had both resisted Musharraf`s decision to cooperate with the United States in its military operations in Afghanistan, the Washington Post reported Monday.

But there are also reasons to be skeptical that eliminating strong sympathizers for the Taliban was Musharraf`s only—or even his main—motive for the reshuffle.

First, Musharraf has not declared an open season on the Taliban. On the contrary, the very same day that the top level military purge was announced, the Pakistani president also publicly revealed that he had warned President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair not to use their airstrikes to militarily aid the Taliban`s last remaining serious military foes in Afghanistan, the embattled Northern Alliance. And so far, Bush and Blair appear to be heeding his warning.

Second, several of Musharraf`s sackings and promotions in the purge may well be at odds with the interpretation that he was out to purge Taliban sympathizers from key positions.

He retained as foreign minister, Abdur Sattar, who has been an enthusiastic defender and supporter of the Taliban over the past two years. And Sattar does not have a significant independent political base and certainly does not have serious clout in the army.

Musharraf even promoted Lt. Gen. Mohammad Aziz Khan, an open and strong sympathizer of radical Islamic groups within Pakistan sympathetic to the Taliban and Osama bin Laden, to become chairman of Pakistan;s joint chiefs of staff.

The Washington Post dismissed the significance of this appointment in its report by saying that the position of chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was ``little more than a figurehead.``

That is certainly, the current U.S. Conventional Wisdom. But then, the current U.S. diplomatic and intelligence Conventional Wisdom on Pakistan over the past two years has been wrong on virtually every major issue.

It was taken by surprise by Musharraf`s military coup, by the tough line he has taken since, especially on Kashmir, by the effective support that Pakistan has continued to channel to the Taliban and by the speed, effectiveness and determination with which Pakistan publicly tested its nuclear weapons and declared itself a nuclear power before that.

Therefore, when Musharraf singled out one of the most prominent sympathizers of the Taliban and bin laden by promoting him to the very top of the Pakistani Army`s command structure, it may well prove premature to immediately conclude that the subject of the promotion had, in effect, really been demoted.

A similar example of U.S. analytical myopia appears to be at work in the widely accepted description of Lt. Gen Ehsanul Haq as a ``moderate.`` Musharraf appointed Haq as the new Pakistani intelligence chief. He has been described as far more ``moderate`` than his predecessor.

But Haq is also an ethnic Pashtun and that makes him of the same tribal group as the backbone of Taliban support in Afghanistan. Taliban power is based overwhelmingly on the Pashtuns, the most numerous and powerful of Afghanistan`s tribal groupings. And ethnic solidarity among them is proverbially strong.

Musharraf is often described in superficial American press reports as being a blunt general, inexperienced in political wiles. But he has in fact shown exceptional political acumen since taking power two years ago. And the pattern of his sackings and reappointments Monday, and the way in which they were presented to the Western, especially the American, media, suggests that he is also adept in having his cake and eating it.

The moves one Musharraf very favorable press comment for supposedly ``reining in`` and firing ``extremists`` and ``hard-liners`` and replacing them with ``moderates.`` In fact, it is by no means clear they did any such thing.

But what the moves did do was greatly ease the international, especially U.S. pressure on Musharraf to crack down on sympathizers of the Taliban and bin Laden in his own army and intelligence power structures. And they also further strengthened his position as ruler of Pakistan.

Within his own country, Musharraf has established himself as the man who has the skill and determination to keep the American colossus from either declaring war on his country or destabilizing it by forcing his government to take radical actions that would outrage many millions of Taliban and bin Laden sympathizers there into mass violence that could lead to revolution or civil war.

Musharraf was even able to use the reshuffle to ease into retirement several senior officers of comparable stature to him whose support had been crucial in his seizure of power two years ago. With them in retirement, his own stature is comparably enhanced.

In all that, he proved himself to be a lot smarter, more skilful and subtle than the ``simple soldier`` he is so often reputed to be.

Copyright © 2001 UPI. All Rights Reserved.

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Shammi:

``...Statements by a top Indian official in interviews today and on Monday that suggested that India might, under certain circumstances, consider a military strike against Pakistan...``

There is a saying in Punjabi:

Kehney vich kee harz hai?

and one in Hindustani:

G_nd mey dam nahi, ham kissi sey kam nahi..

Apply both statements to the NYT article, to see the actuality of Indian attack on Pakistan.

The ``IT Coolies`` of India have done it again...did someone say recession? One of the few Nasdaq-listed companies to be doing well...

{{Infosys Q2 profit up 31% yoy, beats fcast

BANGALORE, Oct 10 (Reuters) - Infosys Technologies Ltd, India`s second-largest software services exporter, on Wednesday reported net profit jumped 31 percent in July-September from a year earlier, beating market expectations by a whisker.

Nasdaq-listed Infosys (NasdaqNM:INFY - news) said net profit rose to 2.016 billion rupees ($41.89 million) or 30.39 rupees a share, from 1.540 billion rupees a year ago. Total income rose 45.74 percent to 6.5 billion rupees.

That exceeded the median net profit forecast of 1.94 billion rupees, up nearly 26 percent, in a Reuters poll of 14 brokerages. The poll estimated a 35 percent rise in net sales to 6.29 billion rupees.

Bangalore-based Infosys, which had forecast total income of 6.25 billion-6.4 billion rupees, announced the results before the start of trade on Indian bourses on Wednesday.

Infosys also announced an interim dividend of 7.5 rupees per share.

On Tuesday, Infosys` shares closed nearly one percent higher at 2,415.40 rupees on the Bombay Stock Exchange -- down 65 percent from their 2001 high of 6,988 rupees on January 22, but up 12 percent from the calendar low of 2,156 rupees last week.

(US$1 equals 48.12 Indian rupees)}}

Re:Reply #: 62

hariharan,

Thanks for your post. Fire in an army H.Q in islamabad destroying files? Why am i not surprised? I remember this is not the first time. When after the Afghan war, USA wanted the rest of Scud(?)missiles back, one depot that was supposed to have stored these missiles was destroyed in fire. Uncle Sam was told that all the missiles were destroyed. These missiles resurfaced in Kargil.

If India and Pak can leave behind their animosities and start afresh, it will be the best thing to happen and this may be the best time. Pakistan`s ruler has a unique opportunity to flush out the terrorists. Will he have the courage to give up his jehad policy in Kashmir. Considering that he has been under a lot of pressure from the fundamentalists, how will he proceed once the latter is taken care of? Pak may need a lot of prodding and encoragement from USA. USA stands to benefit also from this rapproachment between India and pak. It will have a huge market and the political stability it needs before big companies can invest in the subcontinent.

Sridhar

Re:Reply #: 57

Amit,

Please share with some of us who are ignorant as to what is going on with Bilal Ahmed. I hear he is ill. What is wrong? If it is not too much of a trouble, some people who know his e-mail address may post it on chowk so i and other well wishers can convey our regards and good wishes to him.

Sridhar

WITH DEAR FRIENDS LIKE THESE, WHO NEEDS ENEMIES?

Musharraf will meet his end soon: Jamaat

Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf would meet his ``end`` very soon for supporting the United States in its war against Afghanistan, a top opposition leader warned on Tuesday.

The days of Musharraf`s military regime are also numbered because it has lost the confidence of the people, Jamaat-e-Islami chief Qazi Hussain Ahmed said.

``The Muslim ummah (world) is grieved with the US attacks but our government, which claims it is an Islamic one, is supporting these attacks,`` Online news agency quoted Qazi as saying.

He said he had contacted other Pakistani religious and political leaders to chalk out a joint strategy against the government and the US attacks on Afghanistan`s ruling Taleban.

``Musharraf is not correct when he says the nation is with him and only a small minority is protesting against his policies. The fact is that the nation is very grieved and Musharraf will soon met his end,`` Qazi said.

``Anti-US and anti-government demonstrations and protests will continue until America stops air strikes against Afghanistan,`` he warned.

It appears that investigators are succeeding in establishing a link between Al Qaeda and Jaish-e-Mohammed led by Maulana Masood Azhar (of Indian Airlines hijack, and recent attack on civlians near J&K assembly infamy). The investigation is inexorably leading towards the ISI and...:

``...Another key figure on the money trail is Ahmed, also known as Sayiid Shaykh...`` (Washington Post, US Ties Money Trail to Al Qaeda, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17934-2001Oct6.html)

``...Ahmed Umer Saeed Sheikh, who is reported to have wired $100,000 to Mohammad Atta, one of the hijackers involved in the attack on the World Trade Center in New York on September 11, was arrested by the Delhi police in November 1994 for kidnapping four foreigners. He was released from the Delhi`s Tihar jail and taken to Kandahar along with Maulana Masood Azhar and Sheikh Ahmed Zargar in exchange for the release of the passengers of Indian Airlines IC 814 flight held hostage in Kandahar by five hijackers...``

(The link between US terror attacks and IC 814 hijack, http://www.rediff.com/us/2001/oct/10ny23.htm)

``Informed sources said there were enough indications with the US intelligence agencies that it was at Gen Mahmud`s instruction that Sheikh had transferred 100,000 US dollars into the account of Mohammed Atta, one of the lead terrorists in strikes at the World Trade Centre on Sept 11, it adds (DAWN)``

http://www.dawn.com/2001/10/09/top13.htm

I fully concur with this Indian American Muslim`s (Mustafa Saied) view, we the silent majority should step up and be counted. We should as an American citizen not allow this extremist view right in our neighborhood n cultural centers or mosques.

``...Muslims living in this country and enjoying its freedoms should stop tolerating hate-filled speeches against the West in its centers and houses of worship. Now is the time to discourage anti-social elements within the Islamic centers and mosques. IT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE TO SIMPLY SAY THAT THEY DO NOT AGREE WITH EXTREMIST RHETORIC (uppercaps are edited by me). Individuals have a responsibility to voice their concerns and put the pressure on the community to stop tolerating it.``

Following is the link

http://www.msnbc.com/news/635263.asp?0dm=V1ERO

Reply # 63 concerned

[``Afghanistan`s Taliban militia received help in preparing their defences ahead of US air strikes from a group of renegade Pakistani military intelligence officers, a report claimed on Wednesday.``]

DRDO`s latest invention, the vibra-alert is working fine it seems.

Jai Kaali Maa ki.

Re: Hobbyty

``...Only because the mandarins refuse to allow these people access to the legitimate economy....``

The refugees have already burdened Pakistan -- do you want to see it grow? Would it not be far better for the authorities to work towards creating conditions in Afghanistan to prevent this from happening in the first place (e.g. removing Taleban many years ago) than to provide them jobs in crowded Pakistani cities where they will compete with the locals? The refugees could pose a security threat in the future.