A Time for Renewal

Faiza,

I agree with you that the word secularism has many shades of meaning ranging from ardent atheism, materialism, to positive religious pluaralism.

In some ways, the meaning different ``secular`` societies tend to emphasize is a function of time and their peculiar conditions. We Indians, you and I included, need to constantly ask ourselves what particular meaning of secularism we need to underline in pursuit of peace and progress for us as a people. I am glad you are already doing so.

Best.

hamid, nasah

re: ``allah hafiz``

I agree; ``allah hafiz`` drives me batty...when I started to hear it used by the more pious in our community, the perverse little impish voice in my soul started to allahisize every word I could think of. Walking down the street, naming the birds,(sparrallahow) trees,(oakalla) stores...but let me not needlessly offend. Confessed to my umma jan, and she laughed, and tried to look disapproving...

regards

Re: Eklavya #607

Javed Akhtar is from Lucknow? I thought he was born in Gwalior and lived his early life in Bhopal before moving to Bombay. His father, Jan Nisar Akhtar, was from Gwalior and his mother from somewhere in UP (Barabanki??).I could be totally wrong though.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-102001money.story

Interesting article. Apparently, indicates money was transferred to an individual who flew to Pakistan therafter.

Ya-Baker:

Have already been out there. But inshallah plan to explore some other places before the end of this month.


Hamidm:

I am keen to learn on your progress. If there is none, kindly have the ``basic`` courtesy to inform. Please spare the readers your usual giberrish; it is becoming boring and shows that you are stuck somewhere very badly.

Grow Up, Bhaloo Senior!

PS:Interestingly, Ralph Lauren has a special going on for Polo Fragrance. I was at the Bloomingdale`s the other day, and guess what: I found three very cute bhaloos together in one box. That was the purchase with a purchase. :) I was walking in my own thoughts, when suddenly my devilish eyes got lit :D yak-na-shud-teen bhaloo in one box. Even the prefume brands realize to honor the bhaloos as bhaloooooooooooooooooooos!
I suggest all the senior, junior, massoom, makkar, ayyar, chalak, and others should checkout this special deal. Preference will be given to golden bhaloos as the cute bears represented the massoom aur sehmae hoyae` golden bhaloos.

Good Luck

Reply #: 561

dost-mittar

``Why do you think only Hindus should know Hindi or Sanskrit? you too can be proud of your ancestor who wrote Shakuntala or Meghadoot...no less impressive than Shakespear`s work.``

I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly. How many of us, growing up in India (especially North),have not seen Mirza Ghalib, the serial on Doordarshan in which Naseeruddin Shah played the lead role. It never ever occurred to me,watchint that serial, that this was a muslim thing. Culture can never be limited. It should be allowed to flow freely. Culture never can threaten anyone`s security. Guns and wrong ideologies can.

It is only a communal mind that sees sanskrit as ``hindu`` and urdu as ``muslim``. This mistake is very common and at times all of us have done it.

During almost 10 centuries of ``hindu`` rule when Buddhism spread in India, all the buddhist works and masterpieces were written in sanskrit (by people like Nagarjuna, Ashwaghosha). Today, English has replaced Sanskrit as the language of the elite. Can we then say that English is a christian language since it is mostly spoken by christians?

Sridhar

Re:Reply #: 575

Faiza,

In continuation of my post let me add that secular India does not care much about bearded muslim clergy issuing fatwas. If this is what Shahi Imam wants to do he should move to Pakistan, where i am sure he will have a big following. Freedom of Speech comes with responsibility. At a time like this when the whole world is condemning OBL and Taliban, this guy is supporting them. What a shame!

Sridhar

Faiza,

Oooops! The confusion arose from my poor grasp of English grammar rather than my ignorance. By Lucknowi bro I meant MY bro. See, Shabana is more like my bhabhi :)

Re:Reply #: 575

Faiza,

``Bokhari is holding more sway on Indian voters than Shabana.``

Really,

I did not know this. May be you can post some proof to substantiate your above statement. As Shabana Azmi herself has said, last time this punk supported a candidate during elections, that guy lost his deposit. Shahi Imams in India in this day and age are a disgrace. This guy should either be air dropped into Kandahar to continue his fantasies with OBL or should be dumped in the Arabian Sea. His issuing statements supporting Taliban is a cheap political stunt and nothing more. Like most other religious leaders in India, he should keep his mouth shut.

Shabana Azmi has been a rebel with a cause. She is a fine actress, a respected parliamentarian and one of the few (the other being Sunil Dutt)who has tried to do something for the slumdwellers of Bombay. I know a lot of people will scream foul here but hey, at least she has tried to identify herself with their cause. I do not hear Shahrukh Khan or Amitabh Bachchan doing anything worthwhile for the poor and downtrodden.

So, Shabana Azmi is not a true muslim. Is that what you said? How do you know she does not practice Islam? Even if she does not practice her religion, I am not sure if she really cares. She is a good person and that`s what matters.

Sridhar

nasah

you ask ....``Is there any room for REFORMS in Islam in making it -- more like a personal/spiritual religion -- instead of staying as a marshallalized political religion?``

........ of course there is - because if islam does not change it will go the way of other absolutist and totalitarian ideologies like communism .......but it will take a few hundred years, long after you and I are gone ....in the meantime we have to suffer the indignities of sajida, hadood laws, islamic banking and mandatory circumscision ......

....... of course, as individuals, there is nothing to stop us from practising a more reasonable, loving and tolerant version of islam ...... i might even have the perfect receipe :

....namaz, twice a year with great fanfare and complete with achkan and topi; fireworks on shab-i-barat; distribution of halwa on eid-i-milad-un-nabi; three fards namaz-i-maghrib on shab-i-mairaj; an annual visit to data sahib or bari imam ( take your pick); recitation of the kalima when confronted by demons in the closet, or under the bed; using assalaam o alaikum as the standard greeting and khuda hafiz for good-byes (not the silly pia-issued allah hafiz); using mashallah when praising a beautiful woman, followed by a mandatory chasm-i-baddoor................. that, i think, should do it - unless you want to include fasting on juma-tul-wida and hanging a kali-handi on your newly constructed house to ward of jinns and other evil spirits ...........

Shaban Mubarik !

Faiza,

Secularism plays a very large role in the consciousness of America. Separation of the Church from the State is a basic, even if constantly fought over, tenet here.

I am not sure what you mean by ``no country uses secularism the way India does.`` Can you please clarify?

Thanks.

EK

Chowkies,

I am saddened to hear about the Taj Mahal; my ummi jan`s family is from Agra and we were hoping to take her there. Hopefully, we will be able to.

Rsaxi

What makes you think tree huggers don`t wash, yaar? I should introduce you to some of the South Asian tree huggers I know-they`re quite heartbreaking...and CLEAN! And SMART! And then, my dear Lacroix-nose thumbing friend, you`d be in a lot of trouble, wouldn`t you? I`ve seen it happen many times...

drumz

thanks for the downlow...haven`t heard either of these groups, will get to it...

Dost Mittar:

I was watching last night that Ossama`s family will be on CSPAN 3:00 am EST(Sunday Morning). Previously, I have talked about this Ataa Fellow who was one of the hijackers and his family pictures were all over the place in the NY Times.


A General Note:
Jean Sasson, the writer of Princess and Sultana`s Daughter, was on CSPAN and talked about the life of women in Saudi Arabia. I do not want to cover the details of the book review, but I want to mention one point that she articulated very well. She was told by a wise woman that the most important thing for a woman is the geography where she grows up. Jean Sasson gave her own example. She belonged to one of the poorest families in her town in Alabama. But she grabbed various opportunities and did well in life. She has lived in Saudi Arabia for 12 years or so. And studied the women very well.

The other ironic part was, ``the abundance of alcohol,`` that was mentioned during her talk. She mentioned that she has never seen that much alcohol in her life that she came across in Saudi Arabia.

Dear hamidm:

yet -- ``and in the end stuck dawood wher he belongs - on the third shelf between kinglsely amis and pg woodehouse``.

So why didn`t you throw dawood away, eh? -- there you`re caught in broad daylight prowling the Chowk as an -- ADHA MUSSULMAN!

As they say ``once a Muslim always a Muslim``.

I agree with you hamidm about ``understanding`` Quran.

And if my friend tahmed will forgive me -- I did spend quite a lot of time reading the turjumas and the tafseers as well -- honestly speaking, it sounded so bland, incoherent, rambling and contradictory that it actually shook the foundations of my belief system -- so I stopped doing that -- and stayed with the lyricism of the Arabic text.

The question that I would like to ask you hamidm and tahmed is this:

Is there any room for REFORMS in Islam in making it -- more like a personal/spiritual religion -- instead of staying as a marshallalized political religion?

Besides removing Islam from politics like a fly from a bowl of milk -- if I were a Martin Luther of Islam -- the first two things that I would like to do are: -- I would get rid of Haj as a primitive ritual of idol worshipping -- that was replaced by a CUBE 1400 years ago including stone throwing on a pillar called Satan!! -- and remove SIJDA from Namaz because it is too demeaning and very IMMODEST for Muslim WOMEN.

Now may I hear, satire aside, what is your idea of reform in Islam, hamidm? Or is this a lost cause?

I think tahmed has summarized his in the previous post.

hasan

LONDON–When the United States went to war against the Taliban in Afghanistan last week, Pakistan launched a simultaneous anti-Taliban campaign as well – within its own borders.

President Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan’s military ruler, has made it clear he’s ready to crack down on those who try to undercut the government’s support for the anti-terror coalition.

Last week he moved quickly to do that, placing the leaders of religious parties under house arrest, suppressing demonstrations and deporting Afghan refugees who took to the streets.

Many madrasas, the religious schools that trained Afghanistan’s Taliban, were shut down indefinitely. By the end of the week the military had managed to keep control in the streets.

But it’s clear that de-Talibanizing Pakistan – a country that has increasingly bowed to the will of a vocal religious parties in recent years – is going to be far from easy, says a Newsweek report.

Given the fact that he leads a military regime,

General Musharraf’s first concern was his own military brass. Since 1996 army has been the Taliban’s biggest supporter abroad. So just as American planes started bombing Afghanistan on October 7, Musharraf mustered support among key generals to reshuffle the top command. Lt.-Gen. Muhammed Aziz was shifted from his post as the powerful corps commander in Lahore to a ceremonial position as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Most important, Gen. Mahmood Ahmad, the influential chief of the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate – the country’s CIA – was replaced with a moderate, Ehsanul Haq. (Mahmood should have been in line for the powerful post of Vice Chief of Staff of the Army, and resigned in protest when a more junior officer got it instead.)

Mahmood had presided over Pakistan’s military support for the Taliban, and though he changed his position on them after September 11, military observers say he didn’t change fast or far enough for Musharraf’s liking.

“Musharraf now has a team that is totally with him and totally committed,” says retired Gen. Talat Massoud, a former chief of staff “If anyone has different views, they are no longer in the Army.”

At the same time, the general can lay claim to the support of mainstream political parties, most of which are otherwise bitterly opposed to his undemocratic rule.

The largest demonstration in Karachi last week was sponsored by the Muttahida Qaumi Movement, which brought 20,000 supporters onto the streets to support the anti-terrorism fight.

Even the Pakistan Peoples Party, led by former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, who lives in exile while facing corruption charges at home, has voiced support for Musharraf.

“All (mainstream) political parties (except PML-N)are supporting what the government is doing,” says Gen. Rashid Qureshi, Musharraf’s spokesman. “This has never been a very extremist society”.

He has a point. Despite the influence they wield over national social policy, religious parties commonly draw only a few percentage points in elections in Pakistan.

The loud and at times violent demonstrations that are broadcast daily by international news organisations tend to be small – none larger than 5,000 people in a country where mass protests of 100,000 are common.

The government blames the unrest on a small group of hard-liners, dominated by Afghan refugees and stirred up by religious parties.

In Quetta, which was racked by anti-American riots on October 8, a much larger – and peaceful –rally was held by anti-Taliban royalists on the same day.

Of the 150 arrests in Quetta, 130 of them were Afghan refugees – who were deported with their families within days, according to Rashid.

On the other hand, it’s hard to gauge how far mainstream politicians, speak for their constituencies, when they themselves no longer have much influence under Musharraf’s regime.

A Gallup poll commissioned in Pakistan by Newsweek suggests that Musharraf has just barely managed to persuade most Pakistanis to support him: 51 per cent approve of his decision to back the United States. But the depth of that support is extremely weak: 83 per cent of Pakistanis sympathise with the Taliban (compared with only three per cent for the United States).

Only two weeks earlier, after the September 11 attack, Gallup soundings suggested only 40 per cent support for the Taliban in Pakistan.

So Musharraf cannot rest easy.

When American planes began arriving at two Pakistani air bases last week, in Jacobabad and Pasni, the government was quick to deny that any American troops were aboard. “It’s a very dicey situation,” says a former general who is close to Musharraf. “Things could still get out of control – and the longer it goes on, the worse it will get.”

Right now American and British war planners are refusing to set any time limit on military action, speaking of operations that could drag on into next summer.



If that happens, it may be a good thing for the anti-terror coalition that Pakistan is ruled by a friendly military dictatorship, rather than what could well be a hostile democracy.(Nation)

OBL activities remind me of activities of Charles Manson, who is in prison and serving time now.

Thanks