A Time for Renewal

I don`t know why ppl dont get this staright?

All religions sux, Islam does more.

Simple, isnt it?

MaheshG and harish,

First of all, let me clarify something. I DO NOT support war in the name of religion. Get it?

Secondly, the Kashmiri people want their independence, and the majority of them happen to be Muslims. So were the Bengalis....so what`s your point? What matters essentially is their right to self determination. It is their land, not India`s not Pakistan`s. GET IT?

Secondly, you guys should just accept the fact that Pakistan exists, for better or for worse.

There is no point lamenting that.

And please don`t bring up Kashmir on every board.

It`s pathetic.

To harimau and other hate-monging Indians rearing their ugly heads on Chowk:

I know it hurts seeing the West try to understand Islam for a change, despite your squirmings, but please keep your temper tantrums to yourself.

To Eklavya other nice Indians:

God bless you for being true, peaceful, and loving to everyone and not judging or spreading hateful propaganda about Muslims and Pakistan.

THANKS

Ref saminashah #: 119

[Bush asking American school children to save money to donate to starving, endangered Afghani children is an obscene irony. We are bombing one of the most landmine filled countries in the world. This country is on the verge of official famine, therefore the US is showering packets of food that the UN relief effort has dismissed as inadequate and nutritionally unsound. And we are bombing them, after our history with them. I`d like to know what is admirable about any of this- the purity of young who will save money maybe, but then one day they will be able to read newspapers and history books. So even they will know that they have been exploited.]

The US is showering food packets on Afghanistan. It is all vegetable and cereal (no meat because question of non-halal meat may arise), has 2200 calories (enough nutrition for 1 day for an adult male) and I can`t understand why anyone would classify it as nutritionally unsound. Considering it is food similar to the one given to American servicemen, you would expect the full complement of vitamins and minerals too. On the other hand, the Taliban is reportedly demanding $28 or so per ton of relief supply being shipped into Afghanistan by UN Aid agencies, Pakistan is sitting on the food supplied by UN and refuses to register new incoming refugees who thus become ineligible for relief, and you are questioning if the Americans are doing the right thing. They are doing a far better thing than your GoP or the Taliban, that is for sure.

The little girls who give a dollar or more toward the relief of Afghan children are the same ones who, 15 to 60 years later, march wearing a scarf in solidarity with Muslim women. The values they are raised with causes them to identify with civil rights for all. Exactly what is the treatment of Christians in Pakistan for a single Pakistani to have the nerve to say that America is anti-Islam? What is your record.

I have said this before and I will say it again: in the minds of Muslims, it is one rule for the Muslims and the exact opposite for all others. And you all have no shame in accepting help when you need it desperately and then biting the hand that feeds you.

There ought to be a limit to namak-haram.

Sharia giving all the power to women makes proud debut in another part of ummah

Nigeria ready to stone its first woman to death. She is pregnant.

Read about liberating power of sharia

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-000081790oct13.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dworld

Will they murder her with her wearing a burka or not? It will be more fun watching her die if no burka was there.

Since many such stonings of women empowered by sharia will follow, they should alternate.

stoned to death with burka

stoned to death without burka

stoned to death with burka

so on.

When a government stones a woman stoned to death a day

It defends sharia and keeps vice away.

Long live sharia

Sharia gives woman all the power.

Long live ummah.

Death to America.

Death to Kafirs.

Long live Taliban.

Long live Mulla Omar

Long live Bin Laden.

Long live karachi murderers.

Are we still slaves:



As odd as this may sound to many in the US, I think the Islamic country that has most based its decisions of principles is Iran. One may not agree with these principles (I do not agree with many of them), but they have been applied consistently. Iranis were killed in great numbers by Iraq, yet in the Iran-Iraq war they refused to support the USA. Iran almost was in a state of war with the Taliban, yet it has again refused to assist the US in attacking Afghanistan. One can disagree with many of the stances Iran has taken, however one cannot accuse it of hypocrisy.

Currently, Saudia Arabia is somewhat of a de-facto head of the Islamic group of countries. However, the Saudi society is so polarized in a contradictory anti and pro-US camps (pro-US Royal family basing its legitimicy on an anti-US Wahabi religious leadership), that within twenty years of so, I think there will be an anti-US revolution there, like the one in Iran. The country that should be the natural leader of the Islamic world is Pakistan. However, it has had poor leadership and weak economies, and thus could not make an impact. The country that eventually will moderate itself and become the leader, in my opinion, is a democratic Iran.

Having said that, it is quite interesting to see how much of an inferiority complex us desis have in regard to the US. Indians and Pakistanis use the US as the benchmark of righteousness and wrongfulness. While this is true in economic affairs, it is not the right standard in foreign policy-related moral issues.

India has, according to an Indian author, been, ``gyrating its hips`` to attract the US towards itself in its current conflict. The US, just two months ago, considered Pakistan a pariah state. Now Pakistan is ally no. 1. India was ally no. 1 two months ago, and is now ally no. x + 1. This should make it clear that the US (and most other countries) foreign policies are not based on morality or principles. They are based on self-serving interests.

If the above is true, then why are Pakistanis and Indians so interested in using the USA as their moral benchmark. If the US declares a country, organization, person to be evil, why do Indains and Pakistanis automatically consider this to be the truth. If all Pakistanis cry out that NS and BB are corrupt, why is that the Pakistani (and Indian), ``intellectuals`` only take notice when the New York Times declares the same.

The US, in and of itself, has no legal right, much less a moral right, to declare the goodness and badness of anyone, in international affairs. The only organizations that have this legal right are the UN, International Court of Justice, International Criminal Court (which the US does not support), etc. If the US were to declare India or Pakistan a rogue state, does that make them one? Does it hold up in any international court?

Yet, us desis jump up and down when the US makes a positive comment about us. And, we celebrate when our enemies receive a neutral or negative comment. Realisticly, we must fear being on the bad side of the US, since it is much more powerful than India and Pakistan combined, ten times over. But why do we use the US as our moral yardstick also, specially in foreign affairs.

In short, we (Indians and Pakistanis) are still suffering from a national inferiority complex. Perhaps, we can learn a few things from the Iranis.

tahmed321 #129
``sadna (who has written trillions of posts, and all she is saying is that Pakistan deserves to go down the tubbes)``

Which posts say that? I am not even on this board.

MaheshG #134,

Would you pat me on my back too if all I did was search the internet and the media for anti-Indian articles and posted them here? There are many out there you know.

I`m just not as pathetically obsessed with India as suxena, sadna and the gang are with Pakistan.

re: Aamir # 130

``Tell what to read at this time bah bah black sheep ya hail mary god dy gum jesus ........

kon se surah yaad kiye bure waqt ke liye yasin yaad hai fatiha ya ayat qudsi ??``

Bhai saab, ho sakta hai usko dono aatein hon - ba ba black sheep and fatiha. She seems to be smarter than you and me.

Ref scout #: 140

[To harimau and other hate-monging Indians rearing their ugly heads on Chowk:]

I know YOUR definition of love, woman. It is flying a plane loaded with fuel into a building occupied by civilians. So long as you get women in the West to wear a scarf to show their solidarity with you, you will continue to support the destruction of human life and culture by adding if`s and but`s to your condemnation of murder. On the other hand, the day they throw you out of the US and send you back to the Land of the Pure, you will lament the loss of civil rights in the US while simultaneously denouncing it as the Great Satan.

[I know it hurts seeing the West try to understand Islam for a change, despite your squirmings, but please keep your temper tantrums to yourself.]

Oh, no! You are wrong. We want the West to understand Islam, including all those verses about killing the kaffirs, taking their wives and properties as war booty, destroying their places of worship, etc. Come out and deny those verses exist in the Quran! Let us see how you explain those verses.

As for plausible deniability in other crimes, did you watch CNN just around 10:30 pm tonight? Mansoor Ijaz, a Pakistani who has spent 18 months in back-channel diplomacy between Pakistan and India after Kargil, came out and said that the Kashmir issue has been Arabized by Pakistan and the terrorists (his own words) are outsiders. Deny that with a straight face if you can.

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/oct2001-daily/14-10-2001/main/main3.htm

Musharraf among patrons of Rabita Trust: US

By Amir Mateen

WASHINGTON: US authorities say President Pervez Musharraf was one of the patrons of Rabita Trust, a charity organisation whose assets have been frozen by the US because of its links with Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda organisation.

US officials said on Friday they had warned Musharraf of the impending order against the Rabita Trust and encouraged him to disassociate himself from what they described as its founder`s links to Al Qaeda.

The new list of 39 individuals and groups, which adds to 27 identified in a White House executive order last month, also named Jaish-i-Mohammad and four Pakistani individuals. The Rabita Trust has helped resettle refugees from Bangladesh to Pakistan for three decades. It had President Musharraf, among many other prominent Pakistani philanthropists, on its board. The main charge against the Rabita is that its secretary-general, Wael Hamza Jalaidan, was allegedly an original founder of Al Qaeda along with Osama bin Laden.

Some of the names enlisted by US authorities - including those of bakeries and corner honey shops -- may have raised some doubts about its credibility. Nevertheless, the naming of a havala dealer, Haji Abdul Mannan confirms about the impending crackdown on hawala and hundi dealers all over the world, particularly in Pakistan. US authorities are investigating if Al Qaeda used hundi system for their transactions.

Besides, Mufti Rashid of Al Rashid Trust, there are the names of Mohammad Zia and Dr Amin al Haq, described as an Afghan-born doctor practicing in Pakistan. He is believed to be security coordinator for Osama. The diplomatic sensitivity of Musharraf`s relation to the Rabita Trust was evident in the State Department`s handling of news inquiries about his role. A report in The New York Time said US officials initially drafted a standard response noting Musharraf`s involvement and making clear he was a well-respected figure with no knowledge of what it called al Qaeda`s `infiltration` of the trust. But later dropped any reference to Musharraf from its prepared response.

A State Department official said the Rabita Trust is ``a highly regarded Islamic trust with several prominent board members``. ``Our feeling is that Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda deliberately infiltrated the Rabita Trust and corrupted a reputable organization,`` the official said and added: ``We don`t think the prominent people who have their names on it were aware of the infiltration.``

It acknowledges that Rabita Trust is affiliated with a Pan Islamic organisation Rabita Alam-e-Islami, which is known in different countries with different names. In Pakistan, they have links with Jamaat-i-Islami. US authorities claim it has a multibillion-dollar budget financed by many wealthy Saudis.

Many Muslims scholars have protested over the accusation. Mustafa Alani, a British expert on Islamic groups, expressed shock that the US government listed the Rabita Trust, given its ties to a revered, decades-old charity. ``I am surprised, to say the least,`` he told The Times. ``This could turn into a witch hunt. This will make many Islamic foundations very nervous,`` he added.

The Treasury Department said the Rabita Trust`s secretary-general is Wa`el Hamza Jalaidan, whom it described as ``logistics chief`` and co-founder of Bin Laden`s organisation. Jalaidan lived in Arizona in the early 1980s and headed an Islamic centre there before joining Bin Laden in the fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan, terrorism expert Emerson said.

The list also names some of the biggest names in Saudi Royal family and may affect the US relations with Riyadh. It names Yasin al-Qadi, a Saudi businessman who has run a foundation with trustees that have included some of the kingdom`s most prominent families.

The Washington Post points out that the new list puts increased pressure on both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, two countries whose help the United States has solicited in its war against terrorism. Today`s list, says the report, ups the ante by naming individuals and groups tied to countries considered vital in the alliance against terrorism.

Oct-13-01 22:43:5 EST Reply #: 142

Gowardhan

Sharia giving all the power to women makes proud debut in another part of ummah

Nigeria ready to stone its first woman to death. She is pregnant.



GOBAR,

There are 40 million Sex workers in Infdia

5 laks of bride burning through oput India in 5 years

20 million foeticides of female foetus in 5-10 yrs after ILLEGAL USE of gender identifications by ultra sound

Woman beaten to death by husband

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

HT Correspondent

(New Delhi, )

AFTER YEARS of harassment for dowry, a young woman was beaten to death by her husband at her house in Narela, North West Delhi yesterday. The incident occurred in the presence of her elderly in-laws who did not step forward to help her. North-West district police have arrested the victim`s husband Balwan, his father Dulichand and uncle Ramkrishan. The 20 year-old victim`s younger sister Anju saw her brother-in-law physically assaulting Manju in his room. When she attempted to intervene, she was shoved aside and Balwan shut the door of his bedroom on her face. During the next 60 minutes, Manju`s pleas of mercy fell on deaf ears while her sister pounded helplessly at the locked door. The incident occurred at 5 pm yesterday. anju had been married to Balwan, who has been in cable business for four years. Both sisters had been married into the family in the same year. ``Apparently, Manju had been harassed for dowry over this period. There were allegations of continuous demands for money by Balwan`s family,`` said R P Upadhyaya, DCP North-West. Last evening, Manju had just returned home from her father`s house when her husband Balwan, accosted her. According to the police, Balwan had asked his wife to bring a specified sum from her house. However, Manju could not comply with Balwan`s demands completely and brought a lesser amount. Enraged over this, Balwan picked up a fight with his wife and soon the matter came to blows. As Manju screamed in terror, her sister Anju came rushing out of her own room and asked Balwan to stop. ``She even attempted to intervene, but Balwan shoved her aside and she sustained bruises in the process,`` said Mr Upadhayaya.

Harimau,

In all your unpleasantness, the gift that keeps on giving, you seem to not understand plain English. The bombing that the current Bush administration has embarked on is not considered the wisest nor humane solution to the terrorist attack on the WTC. There are many Americans WHO DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS POLICY. Similarly, there are many Pakistani Americans WHO DO NOT AGREE WITH PAKISTAN`S POLICY TOWARDS AFGHANI REFUGEES.

As for the food packets, gee whiz, lets look at the possibilities; 1. the taliban could confiscate and destroy whatever packets are being dropped down. 2. an Afghani woman, child or man could try to get a packet and find it successfully 3. an Afghani woman, child or man could try to find a packet and get blown up by one of the many landmines still in Afghanistan,

Harimau-knock it off. You know the history. You and your yahoo friends also know that these food packets are a ruse. Several relief agencies have deemed them inconsequential in ameliorating the impending famine. If the US and Pakistan stick around to help rebuild Afghanistan after this latest destruction of a people, they will have finally done right by everyone.

As for my being American, for once and for all, I am being particularly American in demanding less violent solutions-thing is, you know it and just can`t stand it. And that ultimately is your problem, should you have the soul to struggle over this with.

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HINDIAN GENES CAUSE EARLY ONSET (69)SENILE DEMENTIA

Naipaul calls Taliban a vermin, favours its ouster







ONDON: Nobel literature Prize winner V S Naipaul has described Afghanistan`s Taliban militia as `vermin` and said it must be overthrown.

In an interview published in The Sunday Telegraph, the writer of Indian descent expressed his contempt for the Muslim fundamentalists who have brought terror and misery to Afghanistan`s 23 million-strong population.

Naipaul who is one of the foremost British writers of the 20th century, has raked up a controversy in the past with his critical writings about Islam, but, until now, has refused to talk publicly about the war in Afghanistan.

This weekend, however, while visiting the Cheltenham Festival of Literature, which he is attending with his Pakistani wife, he broke his silence when asked about his views on the Taliban government.

``They are absolute vermin,`` said Naipaul`s wife Nadira Khannum Alvi and Naipaul agreed with her assessment. ``I think they are as awful as they appear,`` he said.

When Naipaul was asked whether he believed that the overthrow of the Taliban government should be a war aim of America, Britain and their allies, Alvi intervened again and said: ``absolutely.``

Once again, Sir Naipaul agreed. ``I hope so,`` he said, adding ``I think there should be a profounder aim: They should stick to this idea which they announced at the beginning of getting rid of terrorism generally.``

( PTI )

re saminashah

``If anything is slightly amusing about this entire shameful sacrificing of an impoverished people, its your hackneyed responses;``

As to whose responses are hackneyed, we must let others decide. In the non-Taleban world, public opinion does count a little bit.

``.. I could almost time an underboiled egg to the amount it takes to think about profound insights you offer...``

You need to get a better timer. May I suggest going to SEARS or your local hardware store?

``...do you get them out of Dubya`s handbook for the morally bankrupt?``

That is my President you are talking about. Yeah, he is morally bankrupt and your icons in Kandahar and Gaza Strip the reincarnation of Archangel Gabriel himself!

``... or is it Falwell`s book of How to Achieve in America What those Godless Talibanis Acheived in Afghanistan...``

Yout tell me. I don`t read the books written by known bigots. Obviously you do.

``For the record, I am invested in giving back to the country that I know, to the people I know daily rise above the dehumanizing pap our institutions try to serve us,``

America`s institutions are not perfect. They are not dehumanizing pap either. Is there a better place? And if you find America so dehumanizing, why not consider going to a more human place?

``... to the ideals of being a humane society and a citizen of the world.``

As the Abe Lincoln said, America IS God`s last best hope for mankind. It is hypocricy to promote humanity and global citizenship while refusing to condemn unconditionally the barbarianism of the Taleban and its ilk.

``... And I learned that in my Jesuit university from professors and priests who learned it from Gandhi, MLK,``

Neither of them were Jesuits or Roman Catholics by the way. Not that it matters.

``... and the rest of the humane world. See how the circle works?``

Obviouly their humane world did not include the thousands of Americans who risk life and limb to protect you and I from the bad guys everyday.

``... Shame on you for thinking you could anyone with that nonsense. ``

In the immortal words of another President Bush, I WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR AMERICA. A thousand years of such shame than condemning the Stars and Stripes.