A Decision to Regret

Sherdil:

I apologize for the lack of clarity. (There goes my recommendation to CNN :))

Boss, as far as I am concerned, it is you over the facile, superficial observation of Christina Amanpour, any day. I really look forward to your posts, and enjoy reading them. Keep them coming.

Re: Romair #384

``...US ground troops are getting an international reputation, amongst militaries, as being sissies...``

A worse reputation than even the Pak army after it backed off Kargil, or that it continues to send infiltrators who hide behing civilians while conducting attacks? More to the point, sissiness (or churiyan pahenna) are archaic concepts in modern warfare. Heck, to destroy a standing army (Iraq, Kosovo) without shedding much of your own blood is THE POINT, is it not?

Feroz # 390

LOL Good One dude...

Lessons From The Fast For Peace

V.K.Tripathi

The three days fast, organized by Sadbhav Mission at Rajghat Delhi, to cool

down passions and to bring in efforts to stop Afghan war, ended on October

28. We lived on water alone. Jasbir Singh Arora, an engineer in Railways,

would drink water only once in 24 hours, while I drank lot of water. We felt

little weak on the second day morning. Besides that our vitality continued

the same as it was on the first day. On the third day I distributed flyers,

sang ghazals in full volume and talked to visitors for the whole day. Jasbir

emanated the message of nonviolence with great conviction. I realized that

fasting for a day is more difficult than continuing it beyond that. It may

be helpful for those who are overweight to fast for three days on water, to

bring down the fake appetite that motivates overeating, and then have a

reduced diet, as one feels appropriate for oneself. Of course fasting for a

nonviolent cause is a source of inner strength too.

Dr. Riaz Ahmad (Delhi University) and Dr. A. K. Sharma (IIT) fasted for two

days and Dr. J. Parashar (Engg. College Vidisha) and Prof. Iqbal Ansari

(convener Inter-Community Peace Initiative) for one day revealing great

strength and commitment. Anuj Tripathi was the youngest to fast in Maryland

USA for one day, reinforcing his concern for the masses.

We drew a lot of people including Miss Nirmala Deshpande, a prominent

Gandhian, Mr. Rabi Ray, ex-Lok Sabha Speaker, Mrs. Jaya Srivastava,

President Ankur, Mr. Syed Shahabuddin, ex-MP, academics from Jamia Millia

Islamia, JNU, IIT, Delhi U. and schools, journalists and social activists.

Many people from abroad expressed their solidarity. Mr. Nafis Ahmad Siddiqi,

lawyer Supreme Court and Ajay Sahay, a Gandhian, mobilized many people. Many

newspapers published our news. We gave memoranda to PM and President.

We learnt following lessons from the fast.

1) Police permission for even purely nonviolent protests of Government

policies is extremely difficult to have. We were forced to leave the venue

on the first day. Next two days we were allowed after great persuasion. The

laws coming in the garb of curbing terrorism will practically end the civil

right to protest. This must be opposed.

2) Most people cutting across religious lines liked our flyer and our stand.

They realized that the Afghan war is killing innocent people and must stop.

3) Some people wanted the war to finish all the terrorists even if innocent

people too were killed. We should see what is happening in Kashmir, why

bother about Afghan people. Some others would say that Bin Laden and Taliban

have no proven hand in September 11 incidents then why are they being

targeted to be finished. If they were enforcing codes of conduct on their

women, then that is their culture. The Afghan people can rise if any thing

is wrong, why outside interference?

Both these positions are grave signals. The Hindu extremists are filled with

hatred towards Muslims and are pleased with their killings in the war. On

Kashmir issue they believe it is a terrorism unleashed by Muslims against

Hindus. They do not distinguish between terrorists and masses. To these

people I must mention that i) Out of 50,000 people killed in Kashmir in last

12 years, an overwhelming majority were innocent Muslims. Three lakhs Hindus

also migrated from there due to disturbed conditions and fear. So did 40000

Muslims who were affluent. ii) Only 1084 militants of foreign origin (183

Afghans, 884 Pakistanis, and rest others) have been killed so far in Kashmir

(The Hindu Report), which is a small fraction of total number of militants

killed in 12 years, reflecting that cross border terrorism is only one part

of the problem. Kashmir terrorism is interwoven with alienation of Kashmiri

masses, caused by political wrongs and policy to suppress militancy by force

without using intelligence to isolate militants from innocent people. When

innocent people get killed for terrorists, people get alienated. The

Government must bring out a white paper on Kashmir to remove ignorance and

cool down passions. iii) In rest of India, except North East and Tamilnadu

where ULFA and LITTE are active, terrorist menace is nowhere near communal

menace.

To the Muslim extremists I must tell that Osama Bin Laden and Taliban have

been the fighting forces of US till 12 years ago, knowing full well the

designs of super powers. There was Israeli aggression on Palestinian camps

in 1982, killing 17500 people, but they kept mum. They have left only one

option before the youth - to join fighting squads, which is below human

dignity. Human beings are not meant for violence. They must develop into

creative and sensitive persons and learn ways to resist evil without killing

their souls. The atrocities on women are another serious crime. Thus there

is no rationale in glorifying Taliban or Laden, Nevertheless, Afghanistan

has a right to sovereignty and that must be respected. Further, the war,

compounded by winter and famine, would cause massive innocent killings,

hence it must be opposed. Shouting slogans in favor of Laden only defocuses

attention from war and strengthens the culture of the gun.

I would like to dwelve little deeper on this issue. In pro-Osama slogan

shouting people I see two classes. One, a small minority who like

fundamentalist ideology. Second, those who feel that Muslims, over the

years, have been subjected to humiliation and violence in India (during

temple movement), as well as outside (Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine).

In the outside violence US and other powers played major roles. The same

powers are now singularly targeting Islamic terrorism giving an opportunity

to communalists of other colors to humiliate Muslims. They feel Osama and

Taliban are symbols of defiance against the US might. This notion is born

out of desperation and must be genuinely addressed. Branding these people

antinational and putting them behind bars just for distributing flyers

against war is unfair. They must be guided to recognize the real problem in

Afghanistan and that is to stop innocent killings right away and then

bringing in a pro-people sovereign government. Unless this position is

articulated well enough and Government changes its stand on war this could

burst into a communal storm.

3) Fast motivated many people to look at war in perspective. However, to

make a dent in Government policy more determined and widespread movement is

required.

Re: Bijli

So, I see you are fudging the issue by counterposing whether or not Bin Laden is really guilty, and further still by dragging in Subhash Chandra Bose. Well, I am no expert on Bose or Bin Laden. I do not make any assertions about their guilt (or lack of it), or cirumstances for disappearance (in the case of Bose). So, I DON`T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING. You made an assertion, SO PROVE IT.

Re: Hobbyty #382

Do you read The Economist? If not, please do. It will disabuse you of the notion that Western media is implacably hostile to `anything Islamic`. In particular, read the survey called `Understanding Islam` in their August 4, 1994 issue. It is available on www.economist.com to subscribers (but some surveys are available for free), but most libraries should have a hardcopy. That particular survey is absolutely the best set of articles that I have read on understanding Islam.

Also, a few days ago, the NY Times Science section had a long article on Arab/Islamic science in the Middle ages. It was anything but hostile to Islam.

You seem to think that strong editorial content in reportage is a bad idea -- it is bad if the editors are nitwits. On the other hand, if they know what they are writing about (as Economist and NY Times often do), then it adds a lot of value to news.

Besides, just the sheer quantity of western reporting and media on Islamic issues makes it impossible to pass judgment in passing, as you seem to be doing. Sure, there is trash, but there are also gems.

Interesting insight:

``The Great Game, With India and Pakistan as Leading Players

November 2, 2001

Sunanda K. Datta-Ray IHT

Calcutta - By reiterating that India will not allow any Taliban presence in Afghanistan`s postwar government, Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee has confirmed by implication that, instead of easing tension, the recent visit to South Asia by Colin Powell brought into the open a new version of the Great Game. At issue is who will rule the bleak Afghan wasteland once the war is over.

The main contestants this time are India and Pakistan. As always, the contest has nothing to do with Afghan welfare and everything to do with strategic ambitions.

Apart from the Osama bin Laden factor, the outcome is of special interest to the United States. Afghanistan`s strategic location offers a convenient route for pipelines to carry Central Asia`s huge reserves of gas and oil to Arabian Sea ports, thus reducing U.S. dependence on the volatile Gulf. .The anti-Taliban forces themselves are starting to show their differences. An example is the withdrawal by the Northern Alliance from an agreement with exiled King Mohammed Zahir Shah on a loya jirga, or grand council, to decide on Afghanistan`s future governance.

India, like the United Nations, recognizes the alliance as Afghanistan`s de jure government. This despite the fact that the alliance does not physically control more than 10 percent of Afghan territory and issues statements from its embassy in Dushanbe, Tajikistan.

From there the alliance declared recently that it still wants a loya jirga, but not until the Taliban have been routed. Afghans could then choose their loya jirga representatives in a general election.

The alliance suspects that Secretary of State Powell may have reached a secret understanding with emissaries of both the ex-king and dissident Taliban factions during his visit to Pakistan. The alliance rules out U.S. plans for a nominally UN peacekeeping force led by Turkey after the war. But its main objection, shared by India and Russia, is to any postwar role for the Taliban.

There is an old saying that Afghans never surrender, they only switch sides. The alliance suspects some Taliban leaders of planning to do just that, and believes that this may be acceptable to Pakistan and the United States. Any rift between the alliance and the ex-king could mean a diplomatic setback for India and Russia.

But the alliance`s overall position serves the principal purpose of putting an end to the monopoly control that Pakistan has exercised in Kabul since its protégés, the Taliban, drove the alliance out of the city in 1996.

India has always seen Afghanistan as an important strategic buffer. It regarded a neutral and secular government there, such as during the king`s 40 years on the throne, as the best guarantee of its security. .The alliance is composed of Tajiks, Uzbeks and other tribes that spread out into Central Asia. It lacks Pashtuns, who form the support base of the Taliban. The Pashtuns, 40 percent of the total population, are concentrated in southern Afghanistan along the border with Pakistan.

India and Russia now recognize that however much they might want the Northern Alliance in power, it can only be part of a broad-based coalition.

Hence the intense diplomatic activity by New Delhi and Moscow to forge cooperative links between the alliance and the ex-king, who, being himself a Pashtun, can make the Tajik-dominated alliance more credible in Afghan eyes.

Pakistan`s objective is to prevent just this and ensure that a reconstituted ``moderate Taliban`` regime is installed after the war.

Ultimately, oil might be the determining factor in Afghanistan`s political future. Petroleum deposits in the Caspian basin reportedly amount to hundreds of billions of barrels. They were the focus of sustained U.S. diplomacy during the Clinton administration. .Of five pipeline routes that were then mooted, Unocal`s proposal to link Charjou in Turkmenistan with the Pakistani port of Karachi via Afghanistan and build a gas pipeline all the way to India made the most sense in terms of geography, costs and revenue.

Despite Western overtures, the Taliban would not play ball. Now the alliance and the ex-king are anxious to do so. No doubt, other contenders, including some in the Taliban, are equally busy behind the scenes, preparing for the military war to finish and the struggle for political power to begin in ernest.

As always, the interest of outsiders concerns what would-be Afghan leaders promise to global realpolitik, not what they can do for 25 million cruelly suffering Afghans. The Great Game goes on.

The writer, a former editor of the Indian newspaper The Statesman, contributed this comment to the International Herald Tribune.``

Anny:

Please do not ask anyone to go for any apology. OK! And any one who dares to talk about ``mutual apology`` will get a slap right across his face followed by jootian!!!

You are living in a fool`s paradise:a rogue cannot become a saint. Similarly, a male b * * * * *d[there are quite a few on Chowk]cannot write sense. This * * * became more obvious as he has been writing under different names. There are a few others, Pakistanis of course, who deserve equal jootian for the trash they produce: What is ali1? What is sac? What is hamidm? I have ignored nonsense many times as I do not find it worthy of any attention. But I think if you do not express your disgust on the written nonsense, people see that as sign of weakness than anything else. As Chowk has a VERY little MALE % with a backbone and any brains, therefore it`s becoming essential to kick such elements in their weak shins. Duffers are not capable of producing anything else, except for chanting about their insecure little male-hood[that`s the only thing they can hold on to. Isn`t enough though!]. While a eulogy is being written in the honor of male-sickos on Chowk, I would also like to applaud the women who bore the above mentioned three stooges!

Lastly, do not get carried away by reading the sweet talk of any sick element[Bapu, Shah and for that matter ``half-dead`` StudeBaker]. A person`s substance NEVER changes. Just like the ones who speak aborrent and disgusting language with words abae[repulsive] and bhai[sickos] would stay in their disgusting and sick world till their death! You cannot do anything. Just accept their repulsive identities and move on! You cannot interact with a repulsive and sick male thinking that he will be a saint while he is in conversation with you and will go back to his original self later on. This will be the height of stupidity.

As far as ``Chowk Staff`` is concerned, they are in the same category of disillusionment. If a website manager cannot manage the contents that are spilled on their website and allows trash, then they become a party to it. All the more reason they need to be taken to task as well[i.e. a legal action would wake them up pretty soon]. Their incompetence is becoming pretty obvious and probably should be defined in their charter. That way, the interactors will have to take a stand, if they have the time and interest. Apparently, it`s way beyond Incompetent Chowk Staff`s capabilities to manage this site, which is becoming a full-fledge trashy-male-zone, and they should not burden themselves with something that`s beyond them.

!

Re: Sherdil

Thanks for your ``breaking updates`` and I really appreciate your feedback. I agree with you that the sofa warmers of Pakistan need a wake up call and they need to reassert their voices back in the political arena.

I agree with you and I need to clarify one point. What was the reason behind the aborted US Ranger raid? There are rumors that the Taliban resistence was greater than expected and what is this rumor about the Taliban holding Americans inside Afghanistan?

Re: Jay

Jay, in all honestly, I am the wrong person to be suggested and told that Americans should have opted for India over Pakistan. As I recall, India offered its help to the Americans, but the United States refused. My recommendation to you would be to ask Washington, why they opted for Pakistan over India in this crisis. I think that they would be in a better position to answer your question.

I might be wrong on this count, but as far as the United States was concerned, a neutral Pakistan would have been a liability and not a benefit to Washington; hence, the United States` binary question to Pakistan - are you with us or against us. India has, the last time a I checked an atlas, no adjoining land area with Afghanistan and even if they had hosted the United States` forces, as you would have liked, they still would have to fly through Pakistani airspace to attack their targets inside Afghanistan. Unless, off course, the Indian diplomats and their lobbyists could convince the Pentagon to base their military assets in India and take a detour through the Central Asian Republics, while attacking Afghan targets and thus, entirely by-passing Pakistan.

Secondly, the United States` army, notably the Rangers, have in the past trained with the Pakistani Special Services Group in mountain warfare at Pakistan Army`s High Altitude Warfare School, just outside of Kakul and has a close working relationship with the Pakistanis. What the Pakistanis could offer, and what the Indians could not, was the ability to offer the Americans ``advisors`` who would be able to train the US Rangers, when they would have to go in and track the Taliban.

I agree with you, India can offer the United States the logistical support, but India can not offer the United States the ace card and that is, what the Taliban combat tactics would be like and how are the Taliban going to deal with an American ground presence in Afghanistan. Pakistani ISI created the Taliban`s logistical network and they have the information, which the United States, on how to destory it.

Having said this, I still think that India should ask its diplomats in Washington to base their assets in India and to use India and not Pakistan. I think that your diplomats, who are very fluent in the english language, could use this skill of theirs to argue, with the Americans, that India should be given a land access to Afghanistan by re-drawing the map of the region, and if possible moving a few mountain ranges in the process. I think that the Americans would love to hear the Indian proposals on this subject.

On the point of the nuclear weapons in the United States for safety reason, I think that India has nothing to worry if its intentions are honorable and if it is not, it would be better to have them in Pakistan. :)

Ciao

sherdil

any suggestions on how the sofa warmers can be heard?

thanks,

anNy

Some interesting words from Ayaz Amir:

``To be sure, inviting destruction is no sign of wisdom. So it is possible to fault the Taliban for their foolhardiness. But this is not the whole truth. Even in the US it is now being admitted that in various ways the Taliban had signalled their readiness to be flexible on the question of Osama bin Laden. The Americans were just too angry, or too arrogant, to read those signals or give them the importance they deserved. The Taliban were left with no option. They could either have let their noses be rubbed in the dust, which is what accepting American demands would have amounted to, or stood up to American threats.

That they chose the honourable course, if also the more difficult one, is a tribute to their spirit. Far from demoralizing them, American bombing has only strengthened their resolve while we have been left to cite the Treaty of Hudaybia - in which the Prophet, on whom be peace, made peace with the infidels of Makkah.`` (DAWN, Pakistan)

Until and unless the US overcomes its fears of risking its own soldiers in conflicts (US ground troops are getting an international reputation, amongst militaries, as being sissies), it will continue to create international imbalances, which will lead to terrorism.

The US should have either agreed to a third country trial of OBL, or it should send in its ground soliders. I always had a very low opinion of US foreign policy strategists` capabilities of making policies outside the Warsaw Pact domain (I have a pretty high opinion of the US soldiers, however). And my opinions have gone down furthur. The US state dept. is one of the most over-rated institutes in the world.

So much power, so much money, yet so little wisdom. If anyone hasn`t had a chance to meet some of the bozos there, that make life and death decisions for, ``unimportant`` countries like Pakistan and India, I suggest you go and meet a few. You will be surprised by their lack of knowledge. The only Americans I have met who have some understanding about Pakistan, are some of the diplomats who actually lived in Pakistan, and took time to discover the country. The American commentators on TV, and the US state dept. dunces, who couldn`t tell Faisal Town from Faisalabad, are more a part of the problem, than a part of the solution, in this, ``war against terrorism.``

Get ready for the start of a huge carpet bombing campaign in Afghanistan.

Bin Laden calls ``civilian and military Pakistanis to overthrow Musharraf!!! -- says

bin Laden`s TV station -- al jazeera.

Addressing ,`` the statement in the name of bin Laden appears to call for the overthrow of Pakistan`s president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, whose government supports the U.S. campaign against the ruling Taliban militia in Afghanistan.

The bin Laden statement depicts the war as a battle between religions - something President Bush has said it is not.

````The world has been divided into two camps: one under the banner of the cross, as the head of infidels, Bush, has said, and one under the banner of Islam,`` the bin Laden statement says.

``The Pakistani government has stood under the banner of the cross,`` the statement continues. ``Adherents to Islam, this is your day to make Islam victorious.``

Question:

How much clout as a king maker, bin Laden -- a foreigner -- has in Pakistan?

Will Qazi Sahib obey bin Laden`s edict and over throw Musharraf?

Is this a signal to his Al Qaeda cell in Pakistan army to go ahead and depose Musharraf -- the plot thickens.

Will the Chowki Generals throw some light on the subject.

Dost-mittar, I did not write very clearly regarding the report on Mazar-e-Sharif and the US special forces - I apologize for the lack of clarity. (There goes my recommendation to CNN :))

The report of the retreat of the US rangers was when they tried an assault at Kandahar (this link says pretty much what the original report did: http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=101531). At Mazar-e-Sharif the retreat was of the Northern Alliance, where they were unable to take on the Taliban (this was the recent assault a few days ago). Musharraf is talking with the other parties here (PML, PPP etc) to broaden the base of his government. That might take the wind out of the sails of those parties who were protesting against him.

Soysauce, I don`t know much about the ISI so I`m not sure I am the right person to answer your question. According to Manzoor Ijaz, the ISI operated as a government within a government, talked Musharraf out of a face to face meeting with Mullah Omar in the early days (because Musharraf could have talked Mullah Omar into seeing sense and avoided this war) and has hampered intelligence. From news reports it seems to me that before Sept. 11, the early policies conducted by them were designed to provide Pakistan with strategic depth (re: Afghanistan, as Feroze has so clearly presented) and to help the freedom struggle in Kashmir. It may have made short-term sense at the time (because Pakistan had absolutely no `friends` in the world, was under crippling sanctions for most of the decade, was fast going bankrupt thanks to Benazir and Nawaz) All I can say and hope is that the men in it and other agencies of Pakistan must have only one single goal: and that is the stability and well-being of Pakistan. Our conduct and policies must reflect this.

Tahmad and Eklavya, I think the `silent majority` needs a secondary leader (Musharraf being primary) who can rouse them. A person who is respected across all social strata in Pakistan and looked up to because of their actions and beliefs. Which is why I thought Edhi or Cowasjee would be such good choices.

Musharraf has several other fronts to battle, all at once. The PML has announced they will join the Jamaat to protest against Musharraf , which is why Hashemi is under arrest as well. Indian troop movements in Kashmir were followed by their troop commander Gen. Nanavatty`s threats of war. Given all of that, Musharraf is going to meet Bush. Which points to him feeling secure enough to leave the country.

Something else to consider regarding the latest letter from Bin Laden - it is pertinent in one respect: It directly addresses Pakistanis. Not the extremists, who already support him, but the much larger Muslim cross-section who he sees as potential supporters. If the war drags on, my thinking is that he will point out that as Muslims in the past have done, so they - a small Muslim force - is beating a superpower. From Pakistan`s perspective (and from the US) by winning quickly that danger is averted.

Nuggets from the Urdu press



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America`s `baira` will be `gharaq`

Famous warrior and chief of Lashkar-e-Tayba Hafiz Saeed told Nawa-e-Waqt that there will be baira gharaq (shipwreck) of America at the hands of Allah. He said it was the religious duty of all Pakistanis to come to the defence of the Islamic government of Afghanistan. He said the crusades were on and the Christians would come to grief. He asked General Musharraf why he agreed with the American bombing of airports and power stations in Afghanistan since they were not hideouts for the terrorists. Mufti Shamzai of Banuri mosque in Karachi ruled that the government which supports the Americans should be toppled.

Mulla Umar is nuts

According to daily Din, Mulla Umar the caliph of Afghanistan was mentally sick and was given to bouts of madness during which he screamed like a child. It was his routine to lock himself inside a room which his followers thought was a kind of maraqba (spiritual vigil) but in fact he tried to hide his madness.

Journalist who ate five times a day!

According to Khabrain British journalist Yvonne Ridley writing about her arrest at the hands of the Taliban intelligence agency said that the statement of the Afghan spokesman that she was given five meals a day `because she was used to eating all the time` was false because she was not given any food and that she was on hunger strike during her captivity and had eaten only after being released. She added that she was made to walk 80 miles.

Mulla Umar`s teacher held

According to Khabrain, Mullah Umar`s teacher, 67 year old Maulana Ghulam Sarwar, was picked up in Quetta and held in custody by the Pakistani police. The teacher, after being arrested, immediately declared jehad on America. The arrest was made hours after the beginning of the American attack on Afghanistan.

Dr Israr`s pearls of wisdom

Quoted in daily Din, Lahore`s famous cleric Dr Israr Ahmad said that the attacks in New York and Washington on September 11 were carried out by the Jews. Next, the Jews will destroy Masjid-e-Aqsa in occupied Jerusalem. He said Israel will finally be conquered by the combined power of the mujahideen from Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Gul sways lawyers

According to daily Pakistan, ex-ISI chief General Hamid Gul told the Lahore High Court bar that the terrorism in America was actually the work of Americans and Jews. He said America wanted to end the power of China and Pakistan. After Afghanistan, America would end Pakistan. After his speech, the lawyers became extremely emotional and shouted that he should lead their procession against the government, but the office bearers of the bar succeeded in containing the fiery passions of the true Muslim lawyers.

Astrologers on Taliban crisis

According to Khabrain, a handful of astrologers in Lahore expressed conflicting views on the future of the on-going American attacks on Afghanistan. Almost all of them said that America will fail and that the Taliban will win and the Muslim world would unite, but disagreed in detail. One said that Pakistan will emerge from its own crisis in 2002, and another said that Osama bin Laden would leave Afghanistan but Mulla Umar would lose power in 2001.

A bungalow for Mulla Umar

Famous columnist Nazeer Naji wrote in Jang that Osama bin Laden came to Afghanistan and took control of it and in return built a bungalow for Mulla Umar. After that he got rid of Mulla Umar`s Afghan guards and appointed a new guard comprising the Bengali warriors of his organisation, Al-Qaeda. These were salaried men who had learned to hate Pakistan.

Jesus writes to Christians!

Columnist Ismail Qureshi wrote in Nawa-e-Waqt a letter from Jesus to his Christian followers wherein Christianity was accused of having imposed crusades on Muslims and then exploited the Muslim world in the 20th century, building its World Trade Center with the usury extracted from poor Muslim states. Then Christ sent ghaibi (invisible) power which destroyed the World Trade Center, after which Christianity declared war on poor Muslims. Jesus said that he could not remain quiet on this injustice and asked Christians to reform themselves and do penance.

The name of Osama bin Laden

Daily Nawa-e-Waqt wrote in its Sare Rahe column that Pakistan foreign minister Abdul Sattar returned from Doha and held a press conference at Lahore State Guest House but carefully avoided naming Osama bin Laden while the world was talking about him and President Bush was waking up at night crying Osama, Osama! The column called on the Taliban ambassador in Islamabad Mulla Zaeef to rename himself Mulla Qavi (powerful) because that was what was needed against the Americans. His name Zaeef means weak.

Gen Aslam Beg speaks again

Quoted in Khabrain, ex-COAS General Mirza Aslam Beg said that if the Americans sent land troops in Afghanistan tau oos kay hosh thikanay ajayen gai (will be brought to its senses). The last time he said this during the Gulf war, the Americans landed and Saddam Hussein was quickly defeated. But the genius of General Beg has remained undimmed in the service of Pakistan. Ex-ISI chief, General Hameed Gul said in Khabrain that America will never send land troops into Afghanistan. He said OIC was murda (dead). Maj-Gen (Retd) Tajamul Hussain Malik said not so originally that America wanted to take hold of Pakistan`s nuclear weapons and give them away to some other country. He said the war against the Taliban would be a long one and the Americans would run away after seeing dead bodies.

Praising great actresses

Film producer Khwaja Pervez wrote in Khabrain that a statement by actress Reema, Mira, Resham and Saima that they would die for Pakistan was a great gesture of self-sacrifice for the country even though the statement was the work of a destitute journalist sitting at his desk. He said Reema had made Pakistan famous by doing colossal shopping in America, thus picking up its economy and making it beholden to Pakistan. He said the debt of the tawaef (courtesans) was great on Pakistan since they sang all the TV songs. They should now be sent to America to persuade it not to kill the Afghans.

India will remember its `nani`

Quoted in Khabrain, General (Retd) K.M. Arif said that if India attacked Pakistan it will be made to remember its nani (grandmother). He said the Americans had superiority in the air but if they sent land forces into Afghanistan, then the Taliban will have superiority over them. Two superpowers (Britain and the USSR) have had themselves already defeated in Afghanistan. General Hameed Gul said that the Americans will soon learn the rates of atta and daal in Afghanistan.

Parachinar refuses asylum to Afghans

According to Khabrain, the tribal people of Parachinar in the Kurram Agency refused to offer asylum to the Afghan refugee fleeing their country `because the last we did that the Russians attacked us and killed 12 of us`. Seeing this, the political agent set up three refugee camps in the lower part of the Kurram Agency.

Osama like Napoleon and Quaid

Astrologer Abdul Wahab told Khabrain that the thumb of Osama bin Laden was like the thumbs of Napoleon and the Quaid-e-Azam. He said Osama was under threat till November 4, after which he will be safe. According to his lines, Osama was incapable of attacking America but he had a personality that attracted human beings like honey attracted bees. Osama did not bow in front of anyone and was a man of great determination, but he would meet a sad end.

`Reema lao!`

According to Khabrain a local theatre in Lahore was nearly put on fire by an angry crowd after film actress Reema failed to turn up in a show arranged in her name. After Reema failed to appear, the crowd shouted Reema Lao (bring Reema) and began to damage the property of the theatre. The administration said that though the show was dedicated to Reema there was no pledge by them to bring her to the theatre. After this the crowd tried to set fire to the theatre.

Americans eat sleeping pills

Great columnist Muzaffar Bukhari wrote in daily Din that America was worth pitying because 20 percent of the Americans were clinically mad and the rest took sleeping pills to go to sleep. He wrote that the Americans should read the following line of Allama Iqbal: tu agar mera nahin banta nan ban apna tau ban (if you can`t be mine be your own person).

Hekmatyar joins whom?

According to daily Insaf great Afghan leader and former ISI favourite Glubuddin Hekmatyar joined the Taliban with his men and all the weapons he had got from Pakistan`s ISI during the Afghan war. He was keeping the weapons as buried cache somewhere in Afghanistan. Other reports said that Hekmatyar had joined the Northern Alliance.

Mulla Umar`s family killed

According to Ausaf, the wife of Mulla Umar, one daughter and two sons, got killed during the American air attacks. The sons were injured on the first day of the attack. His close relatives were also either injured a or were killed by the American bombs falling on Kandahar.

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Shammi

Print and television news media in the West seem to have these attributes n common:

Ownership/management by individuals who are ideologically hostile to anything Islamic other than complete obedience to the agenda of Western Liberal secularism.

Journalists and opinion writers who are committed to promoting Western secular liberalism, as they defined it. That is to say that is more left, than center.

Strong editorial content in the reportage.

I find it amazing that in a competative field, all major media outlets have the same thrust in their reportage of foreign affairs. Given that a war is taking place and that these outlets have an interest or a sense of nationalism. Yet these do not explain how is that the so called ``free`` press, sing from the same notes so to speak. Partisan publications such as ``The New Stateman`` make no bones about their political stand, and I respect that because it is up front and honest. I find the so called mainstream outlets are unwilling to acknowledge their agenda and their bias.

Is it unreasonable to offer dissent towards these outlets and their editorialized version of ``News``?

Chowk Staff:

I think you need to ban this ba$tard[Bapu, Shah and his kids] who is writing under different names alongwith the few sick male perverts on Chowk. I understand there are a few who enjoy sick jokes and trashy posts, but majority does not write and interact here to learn about the trashy men and their thought process. You need to kick out your editors for allowing such posters. This is not the first time. This is becoming a routine -- off and on!

I strongly feel that you also need to change your motto from ``A place where all can think, write and read`` to ``A place where only trashy South Asian Men can come forth with their porn thoughts and upbringing, thinking that they are sitting with their family women.`` Hope you`ll accept the honor with open arms!!!


General Note:
I skimmed through the gutter post after reading Anny`s instructions to the ba$tard. I have never cared to read trash and trashy posters on Chowk any way, but ended up skimming through the poster`s post. I am glad that he confirmed my belief that a good number of South Asian males should have been aborted than delivered. It`s a mistake stupid women do, to deliver retarded male kids out of equally retarded males, and create a cancer for the society. Great, we have a living proof on board.

Lastly, just to reemphasize for all times to come: Any male who uses the language ``abae``` deserves proper jootian. I simply abhor this verbiage. And if I ever came across this verbiage again then the person will receive proper treatment. Now, I am sorry I won`t be doing that favor myself as my jootas are pretty nice and expensive, I won`t waste them on trash. Hope the point was well-noted!