A Decision to Regret

MashaAllah!

http://dailynews.netscape.com/mynsnews/story.tmpl?table=n&cat=50600&id=200110231615000241190

Samina:

``The ``liberals`` are the ones who remind the members of a democratic society that our civil and constitutional rights should not be switched around like cable channels, they ask us to look at the history of our interactions with the rest of the world, and they remind us that a democratic society contains people who have many opinions and not just one. ``

I understand and appreciate the role of liberals. One may have competing visions, and yet have love for one`s country. However, I object to the simplistic pushing of emotional buttons by talking of My Lai and Kandahar, just to portray the US as an evil nation which it is not. I can just as easily push someone`s else`s emotional buttons by taking sound bytes and visual imagery to raise a whole different set of emotions. If the Blame America First brigade were to balance their criticisms with the positives, I wouldn`t feel so bitter. Hope you understand where I am coming from.

Regards

Stuka

TAHMED:

``But let us stop expecting a country of 250 million (the US) to be the nanny for a billion muslims and a billion Indians and a billion Africans around the world.``

Very True.

Ali#1:

``Now go suckle Osama`s nuts. That will treat your Islamist nausea.``

Please answer this very sincere question of mine. What do you stand for? You give gaalis to Indians, you give gaalis to Pakistani moderates who are not extremely hostile to India. You also give gaalis to Islamists.

Who do you NOT give gaalis too?

Questioningly

Stuka

hello

jay

....... thanks for reminding me why, inspite of being a heretic and an apostate, i still hate the horrible hindoos with a passion that scares and shames me ........

......... the only thing you guys are good for is going out and having a drink with, getting down and dirty and using the b-word without which it is impossible to make a decent philosophical argument .........

cheers

Ferozk 46,

That is a very good response and my respect and regards to you. Now you want advise from the devil.

Simple, the educated of pakistan should take pride in reporting the truth about pakistan, post more of translations from the urdu, about the blasphemy laws implementation, about the anti- india rallies of mullah asghar of the hijack fame. It is only by reporting the truth, the ugly side of the society that there can be an improvement.

I say this from experience, as part of a generation that brought about significant changes to my society in kerala. If there is one saying in every keralite knows is `` kerala is a mad house``, that aws the words of Vivekanada a hindu revivalist, in 1905 about the caste system in kerala. And the most recent tribute to his words is a legislation five years ago by the marxist governement that if a lower caste person is called the trditional malayalam word that has been in use from the beginning of time `` pulayan or cheruman``, all the the person has to do is report to the police and the police has to charge the person with an offence, and the accused has to defend that he didnot call him that name. I know of a recent case where this happened. The lower caste has to be called `harijan` the name given by one M.K. Gandhi.

Ferzok, you can see, this is an extreme case, where it is legislated to get rid of a word. This is what an educated population can achieve, may be it has gone too far.

Now ferzok look at the articles and posts by pakistanis, after more than three years of harping about the passport application in pakistan, at last a new comer, shammi puts up the catual text of what is in the application about ahmadia.

What prevented you from posting it so far, ferzok, and there in is the hopelesness of pakistan, there in is the betrayal of pakistan by the educated. What you see in my posts is the indignation towards the educated, the failure of people like you to understand the implication of the great ex-pectations that the nation has on you.

To a pakistani, pride in his country is in white washing it to the international media. I remeber the words of YLH when i pointed out the nasty reality of pakistan in a hoodboy article, `` well, hoodboy is still a patriot``.

For a keralite Vivekanada is the gretaes reformer, because he said such nasty things about kerala and the caste system, he has given us a weapon to beat every reactionary to pulp, but to a young pakistani, `` hoodboy is still...yes stilll`` and that is the fundamental problem. You dont know who is the enemy, who is the friend. A confused nation, and even the educated are not trying to solve anything.

regards

jay

A FIRE TO REGRET

US helicopter came under fire in Pakistan: Pentagon

AFP

Tuesday, Sep 11



A US military helicopter came under hostile fire in Pakistan over the weekend while refueling at a Pakistani airfield during an operation to recover a second helicopter that had crashed on the night of a commando raid into Afghanistan, the Pentagon disclosed Tuesday.

The helicopter was hauling the disabled helicopter from the site where it had crashed Friday night and had stopped to refuel at a Pakistani airfield en route to a forward base, said Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke, who said the incident occurred Saturday.

``While there, they took hostile fire, aborted the refueling, returned fire and departed,`` she said. ``There were no casualties among the US crew and no reports of casualties on the ground.``

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Of all the strange statements one hears on the daily India-Pakistan circuit, the ones I find the strangest are various threats of wars between the two countries. The interesing part is one will very rarely hear any Indian or Pakistani, on Chowk or other places, who was/is in the military, advocate an open attack on either Pakistan or India. At best, they will talk of covert gurreilla type attacks. But never of one Army crossing into the other country. Yet various civilians talk in these terms, as if they were part of an Indian or Punjabi movie.

Perhaps I have missed out on something, but the last time I checked, Pakistan and India possessed nuclear weapons. And now we know they work. I assume they are quite a bit more powerful than the Hiroshima variety.

So while I play out various war scenarios in my mind, while Windows in rebooting, I keep ending up at the same result. A nuclear war between the two countries, if any Army crosses their borders or LOCs openly, in uniform. The times vary in each scenario, but the end result is the same.

There is one single scenario, under which there may not be a nuclear war, i.e. as the threat of a nuclear conflict gets closer, India (or the US) is able to carry out an air or cruise missile strike against the Pakistani facilities, thereby keeping the war conventional.

However, to those who want to try the above, I wish them best of luck. Because I don`t think it can be done. Has anyone ever even seen a picture of the Kahuta facility, much less even flown over it successfully. I had a friend who deviated very slightly from his flight path, one fine morning, slightly a few degrees towards Kahuta, for a short while. Five seconds after he landed, he received a call from an Air Marshall, ready to fire him. In the early 80s, I was reading a book, in the middle of the night near Sargodha, and all of a sudden, F-16s and Mirages started taking off, left and right. The grapevine next morning revealed that Israelis had attempted a raid on Kahuta. Saudi radars, operated by Pakistanis, had detected it, and within minutes, half the PAF was up in the air. Don`t know if the whole story is true, but I have never seen so many aircraft take off in one go in my life, so quickly.

So there may not be too many things Pakistanis are good at. But they are good at a couple, like bowling in-swingers, flying planes, and protecting nuclear facilities. Three talents Pakistanis seem to be born with, for some reason.

And if the rumours are correct, nothing is actually in Kahuta, anymore. Is everything really under the KRL cricket stadium ground, off Islamabad highway? Think about it, how many countries have a nuclear research laboratory, with a first class cricket team, that employs players like Shoaib Akhtar? The cricket team is a front, to make the cricket ground look legitimate, I tell you....

So before anyone gets too excited about soldiers crossing LOCs and borders, please keep in mind, the end results of these scenarios is a nuclear war, in which both countries will meet their respective God.

The only conflicts between Pakistan and India, in the future, will be of the economic economic and gurriella variety. The former on the Bombay and Karachi stock exchanges, and the later in Kashmir, with a few Indian explosions thrown in at areas like Lahore and Karachi. If India wins both, the Kashmir movement (call it freedom or terrorist) will be suppressed for quite a while. If Pakistan wins one, 1/3rd of Kashmir will become independent.

So the stakes are high enough as it is. No need to start crossing borders with soldiers. I hope people Farooq Abduallah et. al. have their visas to America in their pockets, if they actually want to take the above actions. Because in the resulting scenario, only the Indian and Pakistani expatriates will survive.

narain #59 Your post raises some important issues. The dynamics of real life are beyond the control of our fingertips as we sit to write on chowk. However, the internet (and chowk in our case) provides a magnificent opportunity for thoughtful Indians and Pakistanis to do exactly what you say: ``understand each other slightly better, and develop some basic empathy for each other``. And indeed there are many chowk posters (both Indian and Pakistani) who demonstrate character by remaining civilized and thoughtful despite the possibility offered by anonymity to right garbage. Others, on the other hand, demonstrate character of a different kind by using chowk to engage in insults and put-downs. Will chowk (and internet) prove to be a basis for Indians and Pakis developing empathy and understanding, or will it prove to be a south asian cyber-sewer? Much depends on how clearly those who share your views (count me among them) are willing to stand up to those on the other side of the line (the ``polluters``). And of course, to contribute to positive discussion.

ali1 #54 ``I admire the fact that he is trying to understand the Quran himself... ``

Praise from ali1!! I never thought I would live to see this day. Now I can leave chowk in peace (sorry, dont plan to go yet though).

And perhaps that is the reason my interpretations of the Quran are sometimes weird: they are based on what I see plainly written in the Quran, not what the mullahs and muftis and pirs and maudoodi and scholars would assure us God really meant to say.

Since if one read what the Quran has to say, one would realize that the Mullah Has No Clothes. Ha! Ha!

re: AAmir # 76

AAmir bhai,

We will have to wait for another Nobel laureate, Gary Becker, to analyze how asymmetric information distribution shapes the relationship between men and women. Women - the sellers - always have more information than men - the buyers.

Please, folks, dont let`s your imagination run riot. I am raising an economic issue from a purely scholarly point of view.

All offers for a joint research paper are welcome.

Re: Jay # 73/74

I would agree with you that education, or a lack of education rather, is a serious problem in Pakistan. This problem will be solved and it will take time. The biggest problem in Pakistan is an inability to admit mistakes and once we, as a nation, start admiting our past mistakes, we will start solving our common problems.

Re: tahmed321

The problem in Afghanistan cannot be solved within the parameters you have suggested, which are quite logical. Like I said in my article, the internal stability of Afghanistan resides in the interests of its neighbors; once they are agree on a Afghanistan peace settlement there will be peace in that country.

I agree with your other contentions. I agree with the military application of power to attain political objectives, but I disagree that military power can always solve Afghanistan`s problems.

Re: narain

You are correct in assesing that Musharraf is the best option India has in settling the issue of Kashmir.

What I really find interesting about India urging the United States to tackle the problem of terrorism in Kashmir is that it seems to suggesting, ironically, a third part mediation.

My advice to the Indians and Pakistanis would be to solve the issue of Kashmir, before the United States gets involved. :)

Ciao

Sadhna #41

http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=149019

“But from India we have talked a lot about Jaish-e-Mohammad`s activities and how Pakistan is supporting it. We have done extensive coverage on that group and India`s concerns on the Kashmir issue,`` said Reena Golden, Executive Vice President, CNN International, reacting to criticism of its coverage in the aftermath of the September 11 terror strikes in the US and the US attacks on Afghanistan.”

“Golden, an Indian American, said Amanpour had said she was on a media tour organised by Pakistan officials and she could not clarify herself as to the veracity of Pakistani claims.”

….nasah….you mentioned a while back about having a daughter who’s the vp of cnn…..is this her?