India’s Communal Gamble

Abbe Stukia

Bapu is m.ale and other male4 can threaten him like two steag fighting over female doe in’; jungle. But man cannpot argue with Lajwanti bevcaujse ladies so man`s izzat becomes badnaami if raise hand;s against the/M;. SAMJHA? THEY CAN SAUY PLAIN TRUJTHS WHAT BAPUY CANNOT SAY!!!!

Wheat is youR IZZAT IF ARGUE4 WITH THEM, hain?????!!!!!! Do you wear CHOOORIES AND M.AHNDI LIKE MADONNA?????

Don’t talk,to Bapu if you want Lajwanti to be quj,iet. Bapu is weak, hE IS NOT IHN CONTROL!!!! AND OTHER ALS,O CORRUPTE3D.!!!!!!!n Ask nme nicely lik.e gentleman if you want, but I advice; you stay out of, women’s disagreement or;; you are like ;Americans in Afghahnjstan stuck; in quagmere.

Amnd Samina

Don’t evemn say words like hijabn withy DIRTY MOUTH TH,AT EATS PORK DRINK ALCOHOL AND TAKING DURGS!!!!!!! all a big haram and no ,no in Islam – Firsty study mazhab properly thEN COME AND TAL;K OK Donb’t preternd to; know anything, we can all see your kafir hart

And don’t try to hide behind Frangi or Stuk;qa tHIS TIME!!!!!! AREH YOU AFRAID OFE PEOPLE HEARING BLA;CK, TRUTH ABOUT YHOURSELF????!!!!!!!

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Aslam Beg predicts

According to Khabrain ex-COAS General (Retd) Mirza Aslam Beg said that America will carpet-bomb Afghanistan after which the Taliban will become helpless. The Americans will destroy the Taliban and bring to power a broad-based coalition government in Kabul. After that the country will be split in small states which the Americans then will manipulate into fighting among themselves.

`Parpota` Sheikh Chilli

According to Ausaf, ex-president of Azad Kashmir and leader of Muslim Conference, Sardar Qayyum, said that America had always stood by Pakistan and that the Taliban should hand Osama bin Laden over to them. Those who accused America of being a fickle friend were nothing more than parpota of sheikh chilli (great grand children of a famous day-dreamer).

Imam Mehdi and Afghanistan

According to Khabrain, in the light of a hadith, the black-turbaned armies from Afghanistan will join the forces of Imam Mehdi. The armies of Rome will confront the armies of Madina and ask for men wanted by Rome, but Madina will refuse to give them up.

Don`t befriend Christians and Jews!

Famous cleric Dr Israr Ahmad wrote in daily Pakistan that Sura Maida in the Quran asked the Muslims not to befriend Christians and Jews because they were joined against Islam and that whoever befriended them would be one of them. Earlier the cleric had written that civil war in Pakistan would be useful in bringing Islam to the country.

Pakistan`s `halala` with America

Leader of JUI Balochistan Hafiz Hussain Ahmad told Khabrain that Pakistan was a divorcee of America but the Taliban had made it possible for America to do halala with it and take it back in wedlock. He said if Ahmad Shah Massoud had been alive he would have fought against America. He also said that Allama Tahirul Qadiri was a sarkari maulvi and calling him wise was contempt of court (because of stricture passed against him).

Filmstar turns out to be 34!

According to Khabrain famous filmstar Mira, who is 21 officially, had turned out to be 34 on the basis of the birth certificate made in Malir Karachi in 1967. She shifted as a two-year-old to Sheikhupura and her ID card was given the false year of birth as 1977. This discovery was supposed to affect her market value.

America`s real target!

Editor Ausaf Hamid Mir wrote in his column that after Zahir Shah had been brought to Kabul American troops will invade Afghanistan. Iran had become aware of this and was now issuing statements because once the American troops are stationed in Afghanistan they will not go away but use that platform to take their revenge on Iran. After that the Americans will realise that their real friend was not Pakistan but India because of its bigger market and they will ask Pakistan to end the jehad in Kashmir calling it terrorism.

America will use chemical weapons!

Quoted in Insaf, Pakistan`s nuclear scientist Sultan Bashiruddin stated that the United States will use chemical weapons during its invasion of Afghanistan, which will have sinister effect on Pakistani territory too. He said that America had already planned the bombing and is prepared to use lethal chemicals.

Don`t pay income tax!

According to Insaf 55 percent of the businesses in Pakistan were running without paying income tax. Most traders when contacted pretended not to know what income tax was and put forward their ignorance of taxation as an excuse not to pay taxes.

Mulla Umar married Osama`s daughter

According to Khabrain, the ruler of Afghanistan Mulla Umar married the daughter of Osama bin Laden in 1998 and there were rumours that Osama bin Laden also married the daughter of Mulla Umar. Mulla Umar is 40 years old and sits on his charpai while holding his cabinet meetings. He wrote important orders on bits of papers and called himself a servant of Islam.

Taliban don`t have good generals

Quoted in Insaf, ex-COAS General (Retd) Jehangir Karamat said that America will not land its own troops in Afghanistan but will use the Northern Alliance as its spearhead. He said Rashid Dostam could organise the Alliance and that there was no good generals like him with the Taliban. He said Taliban were in the interest of Islamabad and any other government in Kabul could increase Pakistan`s problems, and that the Frontier was safe because of the Taliban.

Juma Namangani bigger threat

According to Nawa-e-Waqt, Juma Namangani of Ferghana Valley in Tajikistan was a bigger threat to the world than Osama bin Laden because he had two thousand warriors with him and was operating in a region in the Pamirs that was not easily accessible. He threatened the life of the Uzbek president Karimov. He made money from drug smuggling and took handouts from Osama bin Laden and wanted to bring about a Taliban-style order in the Central Asian republics. (He went secretly to Tajikistan from Pakistan after shaving off his beard).

America will stay back

Famous poet columnist Zafar Iqbal wrote in daily Pakistan that even America was not able to conquer Afghanistan and the bases he got in Pakistan, Tajikistan and India, will make it possible for it to act against its old rival China. The Americans will stay back in the region, including Kashmir, which dispute they will resolve in their own favour. The great poet wrote that America will get bogged down in Afghanistan and will become so khwar (humbled) that its global thanedari will be exposed as impotence.

Jehad against America`s friends

Pakistan`s most powerful cleric Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai of Banuri mosque was quoted in Khabrain as saying in Islamabad`s Jamia Farooq Azam that his men will do jehad not only against America but also against its allies. He said Pakistan`s rulers who were allied with America will not be tolerated. OIC should do something but, if not, it should keep its resolutions with itself. He said `nobody`s father` would be able to change the syllabi of the madrasas in Pakistan.

Afghan ambassador`s funny name

Daily Pakistan reported that famous editor Altaf Hassan Qureshi asked Afghan ambassador Mulla Abdus Salam Zaeef why his name was zaeef which meant `weak`. On which the ambassador replied that the human being was a weak entity and it was proper to acknowledge this weakness. Famous editor Altaf hassan Qureshi then opined that perhaps the name was originally zaif which meant `guest`.

Just like us

Columnist Beg Raj wrote in daily Din that the Americans thought that since all those named in terrorist acts were Muslims America should get rid of its Muslims. He said this was just like Pakistani behaviour in 1993 when Babri mosque was destroyed in India. Pakistanis burnt all the mandirs. On little suspicion, Pakistanis were known to have burned entire Christian settlements in Pakistan, and when the rumour spread that the Jews had occupied the Kaaba mosque, Pakistanis had burnt the American embassy in Islamabad while the government stood aside as a spectator and President was riding a bike in Rawalpindi as a publicity stunt. He wrote that on the one side America was sending food for the starving Afghan people, and on the other the Taliban were kicking the UN charity organisations out of Afghanistan.

Myths about Afghan history

Columnist Mustansir Javed wrote in Jang that contrary to the assertion that the Afghans were never defeated by anyone, history actually showed that they were never free of the dominance of great powers. In 1840, the British blundered into Kabul after putting forward the claim of Shah Shuja to the throne of Ahmad Shah Durrani, arrested the pretender Dost Muhammad Khan and sent him to India. The sons of Dost especially Akbar Khan put the British army to the sword. After that the British ruled through remote control and money, but Sher Khan wanted more and turned to Russia. The British marched into Kabul in 1878 and after defeating Sher Ali put his son on the throne. Soon after that, the British took control of the Afghan foreign policy through a treaty. The Afghans kept killing each other while their princes visited India and were regaled lavishly by the British. Habibullah came to power in 1907 but was killed. His son Amanullah who went to war with the British but was defeated. After Bacha Saqao`s fundamentalist takeover, the British sent Nadir Khan to take care of him. He defeated the Bacha and hanged him.

JUI prepares 1.4 lakh new warriors

According to daily Pakistan, JUI had prepared 1.4 lakh new Taliban in its seminaries. The Afghan soil had produced Mehmood Ghaznavi and Ghori and destroyed the Russians. The main seminaries supplying the Taliban were run by Maulana Samiul Haq, Fazlur Rehman, Mufti Shamzai, Abdul Ghani, Nur Muhammad, and Muhammad Yusuf. In 1992 when Mulla Raketi started his mischief in Afghanistan the Afghan youth turned to Pakistani seminaries. When Mulla Raketi abducted DC Quetta, the Taliban from the seminaries took action against him. These were supplied by Fazlur Rehman and Muhammad Yusuf.

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Layman 263,

If pakillstan army were professional at any time, as the romairs and YLH insist, it is aubelievable that it could decline so fast. The reality is that it was a typical latin army from the beginning, as demostrated by bangladesh and kargill invasion.

Now they are so much used to to the good life that they dont want to even do what they are supposed to do, to fight. The jihadists have taken over this role.

In a way it is understandable, if the madrassas are delivering a certain number of jihadists per year looking for shehdad, at least pak army is helping them by letting them onto kashmir and to the northern alliance.

The imbeciles of india talking of peace talks with pakistan fails to realise the importance of jihadists. In karachi they are killing one another. Any of the alleged peace talks have to have a componenet for jihadic venting, a concept which will be very difficult for the parties to accept.

Even in the anonymity of chowk no pakistani dares to criticise jihad. In every muslim majority country, jihadists are there and at present they are being channalised to kashmir. Last year jihadists from six countries were killed in kashmir.

A more intense jihadic war in afghanistan is the only short term hope for india. In the long term, it is only iraquisation and ``dial a shehdad``. There has never been a quite islamic frontier in history and the indian imbeciles talking of lahore and agra are just that, imbeciles.

Reply Urstruly # 266

“My Indian Muslim brothers and sisters, as a Paksitani, I am standing in front of you, today, ashamed, broken, and beat. I have lost my own country to neo-colonialists recently. I am sorry, I can not be your savior, your Mahmood Ghaznavi, your Salahuddin. But I assure you that the phoenix will rise from its ashes; I assure you our mothers and sisters are not sterile to stop giving birth to another Mahmood, another Ghauri, another Salahuddin. The flame is burning. Only one candle, no matter how small it may be, is always enough for all the darkness of the universe.”

Mrs Peron,

I’m sorry to point out that you’ve forgotten your lines again. They start:

“Don’t cry for me Argentina….”

Learn them properly and the show “Evita in Hijab, or how you CAN have nihari for breakfast every day and still fit into the burqa you were married in” will certainly enjoy the success it deserves on its current tour.

Your fan,

Zafar

Reply Hobbyty # 257

Hobbs

Interesting post.

“…recall that the experience of secularization is not a new one. It was thought that religion would not survive secularization in the West. In Euro-Asia, a tragic experiment of secularization without religion was effected for some 70 years, if my numbers are correct. As soon as the experiment was over, religions not only emerged intact, but also look at the growth of the Orthodox Church and Islamic revival.”

But has the re-emergence of religiously based identities in Eastern Europe been an entirely good thing. In many places – former Yugoslavia, Chechnia – it has resulted in unmitigated disastor. It has been murderous for minorities and deeply corrupting for majorities. Muslims, for example, were far safer in Godless Yugoslavia than they have been in any of its successor states since, including the Bosnjak portion of Bosnia. I cannot believe that what has happened has been good for the Serbs either, or how they deal with difference withing their “own” society.

“Try and kill religion all you like, has not worked before or ever. Even your question “just universal moral principle” is call to fill that spiritual void; consider, where was such language and concepts first developed if not in religion?”

Secularism doesn’t kill religion, it merely does not allow any particular religious establishment to play a dominant role in public life. And yes, morality was first articulated by way of religion, but does that mean that it must remain confined within a religious paradigm? I would say not.

I do not understand the difference between subjective and objective secularism as you use these terms in your post. Please explaim.

“Secularism is an example of modernization (a response to increasing complexity), in which differentiation of religion from economic and political institutions.”

The revival of religiously based identities is a reaction to change – fear of change if you will.

Zafar

Paksitani terrorists killed in Afghanistan. Time to celebrate.

Indians watch this video about why Pakistanis financed by Musharraf may be behind NY attack.

http://www.geocities.com/massoudafghan.geo/pakistani_taliban_leader_.html

Did you read salon article about Pakistani women going Taliban way?

Pakistan banega Afganistan. I cant wait.

Ref Zafar Al-Talib #: 222

[you manage to lob in a post which:

1 Implies that you think that Muslims are fundamentally different from other Indians]

Can you tell me where I said so?

[2 Clearly states that in your opinion Indian Muslims are present in India only on the sufferance of Indian Hindus and not as of right in their own country]

My rhetorical questions usually do get the dander up of Muslims. But why don`t you read it carefully and see if I actually suggest such a thing.

[3 Makes no recognition of the fact that Indian culture is composite whole which includes the religious and social traditions of everyone who lives there, including Indian Muslims]

No, I only point out for the benefit of YLH that there used to be a pre-existing culture in Northern India before the arrival of the Islamic thugs known as the Sultans of Delhi and that it doesn`t have much of an external manifestation today because of his personal heroes such as Babar, Akbar and Aurangzeb.

[and usually

4 Throws in some gratuitous abuse of Islam and the Koran.]

He deserves it. Also, at least the fact is that Hindus managed, with the help of Lord Bentinck and other Britishers to abolish sati, and through reformers such as Ram Mohan Roy encouraged widow re-marriage and through Arya Samaj tried to eliminate over-dependence on rituals. On the other hand, it is those `satanic verses` in the Koran that demand the killing of the kaffirs and taking of their wives as war booty that are still not condemned, except sotto voce, by moderate and liberal Muslims. That, my dear Zafar, is a fact that hangs like a millstone around the neck of all Muslims. You also have to accept the fact that the women in your household enjoy freedoms in India that would not be granted to them in Peshawar or most Muslim countries, such as to dress as they please and mingle with persons of the opposite sex in public places without being beaten up by a so-called religious police.

[There’s a term of ridicule for subcontinental Muslims who base their current self image on a spurious idea of a golden age when Muslims ran everything and built the Taj Mahal.]

You mean, Mughal-wannabe`s?

[You seem to be equally committed to living in the past rather than the present, only instead of going on about imagined glories you dwell on historical wrongs done to one set of dead people by another set of dead people. What is the word for such a person? And what’s the point?]

Historian. The point is to pull up people of YLH`s ilk when they start ranting and raving.

By the way, it is those historical wrongs and fears about retribution that created Pakistan in 1947. So don`t tell me that 54 years later, I should forget that this history was used to divide our country, to cause millions of deaths, to uproot several millions more, and to sell into sexual slavery thousands of hapless Hindu women who had the misfortune to live in today`s Pakistan.

No, I don`t blame Indian Muslims. I blame Jinnah, Liaquat Ali Khan and a host of other thugs who have ruled Pakistan.

[1 Do you think I am fundamentally different from you because of my religion?]

No.

[2 Do you think I am less Indian than you because of my religion?]

No. My history lessons are directed at Pakistanis and people like Studebaker who consider India to be the belly of the beast.

[3 Do you think your culture is different from my culture? How so? If we’re both Indian don’t we share the same Indian culture?]

Only when it comes to religious matters, which to me is purely personal, though there might be some typical public celebration such as Diwali, Dussehra or Eid.

[If you answer, please don`t try and assign blame for your views to things some vague entity called ``the Muslims`` allegedly do. You`re writing these posts, not ``the Muslims``. You are responsible for what you write, not ``them``.]

I merely point out that ``the Muslims`` as a whole hang together, be it in supporting the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas or in explaining the root causes of people flying planes into buildings. I know you are NOT one of them and you know enough that none of my diatribes are aimed at anyone but the obscurantists among ``the Muslims``.

[The term “co-religionists” also usually comes up in your posts – generally coupled with an invitation to subcontinental Muslims to take responsibility for the actions of people from places like Afghanistan or Sudan – in fact to take responsibility for the actions of just about anybody but themselves from just about any country but our own. (Pakistan for Pakistanis, India for Indian Muslims.) Instead of staying in a midieval mindset that sees the world as “co-religionists” of this or that or falana, don’t you think you owe your fellow nationals a little bit more decency? (Dislike Aurangzeb all you like – I’m not challenging your view of history – just be conscious that he’s DEAD and Indian Muslims who are around today are not him.)

To be frank, I have come to expect this kind of attitude (and uncultured aggressiveness) from a very few of the less enlightened Pakistani posters on Chowk. It’s embarrassing to hear the same kind of stupidity from a fellow Indian.]

As a polemicist, one cannot be writing caveats all the time to exclude a Zafar or person of similar mindset. My writings point out that India tries its best to create conditions for the advancement of all its citizens, however imperfect those might be today. I can also see that a lower-middleclass or poor Indian Muslim probably has more grievances than a rich or upper-middleclass Muslim but then so does a Hindu or Christian in similar socio-economic circumstances, a fact that seems to escape the attention of our Pakistani cousins. I also point out that Indian Muslims must help themselves and not expect handouts from anybody including the government.

My dear Zafar, let us remember one thing: Muslims have the choice to advance to the modern age or go back to the 7th century. At least in India, they have role models in other communities such as Hindus, Parsis, Christians and Jains that show them that education and hard work and a willingness to adapt to the modern world are the keys to success. What role models do they have in any of the -stans?

Regards.

Dua Dar BaargaaH Rahmaani Baraaye Haalaat e Mazloomi -yi Musulmaanaan-e-Hindustani

786

Ya Allah apne Mahboob kay waastay Hindustaan kay mazloom aur majboor MusulmaanoN ko, jo kal tak taaj pehne huwe thay, aaj ki tawq-e-ghulaami se nijaat day. Aur dobaarah aulaad e Mahmood o Iltamush o jaan-nisaaraan e Babur o Aurangzeb o Timur ko takht-nasheen hone ki tawfeeq ataa farmaa de.

Ya Allah unke bachche bachche mein woh jazbaa paida karday ke woh phir apne azeem ush-shaan abaa o ajdaad ki yaadein taazah kardein.

Ay Sultan e Arz o Samaa beh MusulmaanaaN e kishwar-i Hind imdad kun!

Iltijaa mikonam zi sadaqa Sultan e Hind, imdad kun!

Az azmat-e-Ghaus-e-Saqalayn arz mikonam een dua raa

Beshanu duay-am ba tufail e-Sayyid al Saqalayn Khudaa raa!

Dua Dar BaargaaH Rahmaani Baraaye Haalaat e Mazloomi -yi Musulmaanaan-e-Hindustani

786

Ya Allah apne Mahboob kay waastay Hindustaan kay mazloom aur majboor MusulmaanoN ko, jo kal tak taaj pehne huwe thay, aaj ki tawq-e-ghulaami se nijaat day. Aur dobaarah aulaad e Mahmood o Iltamush o jaan-nisaaraan e Babur o Aurangzeb o Timur ko takht-nasheen hone ki tawfeeq ataa farmaa de.

Ya Allah unke bachche bachche mein woh jazbaa paida karday ke woh phir apne azeem ush-shaan abaa o ajdaad ki yaadein taazah kardein.

Ay Sultan e Arz o Samaa beh MusulmaanaaN e kishwar-i Hind imdad kun!

Iltijaa mikonam zi sadaqa Sultan e Hind, imdad kun!

Az azmat-e-Ghaus-e-Saqalayn arz mikonam een dua raa

Beshanu duay-am-ba tufail e-Sayyid al Saqalayn Khudaa raa!

Urstruly, don`t you ever get tired of your buffoonry.

Ek

How far from Balda Road?

Urstruly:

You call it the ``faults of the forefathers``. Another of your paki tricks, from the divide

and rule baggage. Come on, stop trying, you were never good at it. Try divide and get ruled...as has happened in Afghanistan.You are happy that your forefathers gave you Pakistan, but you lie ``ashamed,broken and beat``. You have lost your country as u say. Indian Muslim in nowhere near your stage of desperation and penury. So much to your forefathers insightful decision making.

Ghaznavi and Ghauri were born in pakistan? Whoah....were they Punjabis?

Man when r u coming to kashmir? May be one of those Indian army bullets will take

you to the land of virgins...{you call it heaven}.

Pheonix will rise from the ashes;flame is burning...Haallo aap kehna kya chahtey hain?

One candle is enough for the darkness of the Universe...? Yeh gaye saarrey galaxies, nebula, stars(red,white and dwarf)...

Hail the new Guru. I am sure Makhfi will believe you. Aren`t YOU?



In the mean time something more for you to shed tears.Let`s see if u can.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/251001/dLAME79.asp

I couldn`t help laughing at Mushy`s statements,

``We are not wearing bangles...``

{Kshama kar dijiyega, hamein kahan maloom tha.}

So much Urstruly,Ylhish and sarwarish.

eeks...but sarwari tho bangles pahenti hongi.

enzoy

Pullu

sigalph235 # 221

Since you mentioned your grandparents migrated to

Chittagong,I assumed that you also lived there.But

you have clarified the matter.That is the reason

you were unaware of SPS.

Regards.

Eklavya #228

Bhai ! kyun sharminda karte ho.Me and Guruji..yeh

taab,yeh majaal yeh taaqat kahan mujhe :)

In persian,Hast (also pronounced as Ast) is used

for both ``is`` and ``are``.

Regards.

You cry baby! When was Marx a historian? The South Asian muslims better come to grips with the fact that they are converts from Hinduism. Stop forging articfial links with the invaders.

When you cite Marx and imperial historians to denigrate India`s ancient history and its pluralistic religious tradition namely the Vedic Sanatan Dharma/Hinduism, you yourself are creating communal tension.

Accept A Common Civic Code, repeal Article 370, and modernise. South Asian muslims are in great trouble because of their unwillingness to identify with their real tradition.

#252 Zafar Al-Qaeda (just kidding!)

It`s easy to say we want uniform laws. The question is whose laws for which. This is where the problem lies. Muslim inheritance laws tend(ed?) to be better than hindu laws when it comes to women, for example. We really need to come up with some sort of consensus as to what laws we want. After all women are greater than 50% of voters and they can decide just as anyone else what they want. To some extent you can pass laws (assuming they are not too controversial) and hope that society`s attitudes change over time to lend weight to those laws. In many cases tho there has to be a willingness in the society to change and reform before there can be laws that solidify those changes.

I believe, having heard of a few among relatives and acquaintances, that dowry deaths have indeed increased. Laws haven`t helped to any noticeable extent and they won`t until society really, really sees dowry deaths as a scourge that must go.

Passing laws in fact may help hide the ugliness. I can sit here and lecture the pakis that we have enlightened laws but so long as we don`t have enlightened people, these feel-good laws could only lull us into thinking that we have done something.