India’s Communal Gamble

So what ever happened to the perfect secular democracy of the day dreamers on these boards?

this fellow puts the same one-sided spin on everything that he accuses historians of...hypocrisy crystallized.

The sooner we forget most of the contrived history of medievel india better it is for the country.When you say muslim RULERS ,it does not mean 99.99999999999999999 % of muslims ever were royal or have any inheritence from it or been benefeciary of it.It only puts the muslim on an unsympathetic platform like the czars ,& all the royals who were butchered & deserved to be according to the new socialistic justice for all the persecution of past.

Regardless of kings & queens in india were muslims ,the majority of Muslims of India,NOW, are more close to lower strata of caste system or mainly unchanged from there agragarian livelihood from 100 yrs prior to independence & 54 yrs after the independence.

The few lucky ,talented & reselient who did make themselves into somthing in Calcutta,Delhi Mumbai ,Kanpur ,Jamshedpur,Bokaro,Ahmedabad,etc industrial belts ALL HAVE ONE TIME OR ANOTHER HAVE FACED DEVASTATING PHYSICAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA OF ORGANIZED PRE MEDITATED PLANNED COMMUNAL DEMOLITION in the last 50 yrs somtime more than once.

It is said one should be thankfull in whatever bad situation one finds in.In that respect ofcourse Indian muslims have also air ,water,food,clothing ,health to thank full for .Of course they are better than the tutse tribe in Rowanda & under the gun of Mighty America ,Taleban,BUT THEN EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE.

The sooner we forget most of the contrived history of medievel india better it is for the country.When you say muslim RULERS ,it does not mean 99.99999999999999999 % of muslims ever were royal or have any inheritence from it or been benefeciary of it.It only puts the muslim on an unsympathetic platform like the czars ,& all the royals who were butchered & deserved to be according to the new socialistic justice for all the persecution of past.

Regardless of kings & queens in india were muslims ,the majority of Muslims of India,NOW, are more close to lower strata of caste system or mainly unchanged from there agragarian livelihood from 100 yrs prior to independence & 54 yrs after the independence.

The few lucky ,talented & reselient who did make themselves into somthing in Calcutta,Delhi Mumbai ,Kanpur ,Jamshedpur,Bokaro,Ahmedabad,etc industrial belts ALL HAVE ONE TIME OR ANOTHER HAVE FACED DEVASTATING PHYSICAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA OF ORGANIZED PRE MEDITATED PLANNED COMMUNAL DEMOLITION in the last 50 yrs somtime more than once.

It is said one should be thankfull in whatever bad situation one finds in.In that respect ofcourse Indian muslims have also air ,water,food,clothing ,health to thank full for .Of course they are better than the tutse tribe in Rowanda & under the gun of Mighty America ,Taleban,BUT THEN EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE.

I began reading this article with great interest. After a couple of paragraphs I decided to drop it, thinking that the author was one of those whose ``opinions`` about India regularly show up in Pakistani newspapers, or a contributor to one of the objective websites such as Dalitstan.

Then I noticed the author actually lives in Delhi. That means just dismissing the article doesn`t do anybody any good. So, I will come back and read it, and respond. It is possible the author has something useful to say, and not merely breaking out into a rant that tells us more about him than about India as it stands today.

Welcome to Chowk Mr. Makhfi,

With all the people bashing you, I thought you`ll need a welcome.

Aisha Fayyazi Sarwari

Gret men! weri gret!

India creats a lot of noise about being a victim of terrorism which is reality is a hoax created by the Indian establishment to hide its own record on terrorism and human rights.I have tried to do an analysis of India on these two criteria and would appreciate comments from all shades of opinion.

-India created, trained and supported the LTTE in srilanka,the most gruesome terrorist organisation the world has ever seen.

After LTTE fell out with India another terrorist group the EPRLF was created to destabilse Srilanka.

- India trains tibetian refugees in India and has created the VIKAS REGIMENT in ladakh which comprises soley of tibetians who want to wage war against China.This is a group which opposes the Dalai Lama who wants a peaceful resolution of the Tibetian issue.

- India created the Ikwan group in Kashmir which is responsible for gross human rights voilations ,rapes, custodial killings and massacres throughout the valley.(source Amnesty international)

- Indian Govt. actively supports and protects the Bajrang Dal and Shiv sena in india ,two groups which easily qualify as terrorist organisations.

- India supported the PLO when this group resorted to hijacking and terror tactics.Once PLO gave up voilence Indian support tilted towards Isreal.

- India supported Saddam Hussein and his Baath party before and during the Gulf war when his evil empire was massacring the shais, kurds and the kuwaitis.India still maintains contacts with Saddam if only to destabilise the gulf region.

- India supports the northern Allaince thugs in Afganistan, who were responsible for 60,000 civilian deaths, rapes and looting during their rule from 1992 to 1996.Tis was when Taliban had not been formed and this is the the reason America shuns this group now.

- Indian supported the Serbs and Milosovic during the Balkan war both convicted war criminals.

-Indian secret agency RAW carries out terrorist actions in Nepal,Bangladesh,Burma and of course Pakistan.

- India agencies support the Chakma rebels in Bangladesh and communists in Nepal two groups responsible for voilence in these two countries.

-India terrorist group SULFA in Assam has be implicated in massacres,rapes and human rights voilation in this north eastern state.

- India is the only country in the world where all its minorities ,muslims,sikhs and the christians have regularly suffered massacres and had their properties and places of worship destroyed.

- Indian democratic system does not allow adequate representation to its minorities and only a hindu brahmin can aspire for the top post.Minorities and lower castes usually are given cermonial posts like the president and vice president whcih in reality have no powers.



VIKAS REGIMENT: http://www.flonnet.com/fl1616/16160240.htm

Mindless Chinese provocation? In May, one of the most curious units of the Indian Army saw its first known combat deployment. The Vikas Regiment is commanded by Indian officers but its soldiers are children of refugees from Tibet. The Tibe tan soldiers are hired on fixed-term contracts and take orders from a special political office under the command of the Dalai Lama. In effect, India was doing exactly what it now complains that Pakistan engages in: funding, training and arming a force of foreign nationals with the purpose of waging war against a neighbour.

IKHWAN IN KASHMIR: http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/kashmir/militias.htm

SULFA ASSAM: http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/ASA200142000?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES%5CINDIA

BAJRANG DAL AGAINST CHRISTIANS. http://www.mcjonline.com/news/00/20000515c.htm

LTTE IN SRILANKA: http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19971113/31750493.html

CHAKMAS IN BANGLADESH http://www.ipcs.org/issues/articles/293-ban-zarien.html

NORTHERN ALLAINCE IN AFGHANISTAN:

Read the joint indo -russian statement today and for northern allaince record read the amnesty report.

SADDAM AND INDIA:

Do I have to remind you that Mr.Gujral paid a visit to Iraq just before the gulf war and thats what a US senator mentioned in his report the other day in the US senate when he said that India supported iraq during the gulf war. (source New york Times)

Re: Eklayva

The daily Dung and Yawn write one of these articles everyday in Pakistan. Shouldn`t be anything new, right?

I guess my advice to the author is same I gave to some others. DOn`t like India, then go somewhere else. Afghanistan`s rulers are looking for a few good Muslims.

Muslims were great and tolerant, Hindus are bad and bigoted-that seems to be the general thrust of this article. Frankly, as somebody from Bangladesh, right now (post Sept 11)I am glad it is a ``Hindu`` India next door than a Mughal or other ``Muslim`` India.

At least in India there is court/magistrate and litigation. SOmewhere in ummah-land, they wouldn`t even have bothered with that nicety. Wanna know how disputes about archaeological-religious sites are settled in much of the Islamic world- take a look at Iran (Bahai and Zorastrian sites) or Libya (Roman sites) and of course Afghanistan. The only `litigation` there is the barrell of a tank cannon.

India can be a very communal and bigoted place for non-Hindus. Her record in Bombay, Punjab, and Kashmir reeks of that bigotry. But she is a far, far better than most of the denizens of Islamic `civilization`. And Amen for that!

Shahid,

A warm welcome and many thanks for writing on chowk. It is good to hear brave Indian voices like yours and Farzana Versey`s.

You are a brave soul indeed. In the next few days, you will be called an ISI agent, a Pakistan lover, an Islamic fundamentalist etc. etc. and will get offers of one way tickets to Afghanistan/Pakistan. All this happened to Farzana Versey when she first wrote here. If you are as unlucky as Farzana, you might loose your job/assignments, like she lost her column at Midday India.

I hope for the sake of your safety that you haven`t used your real name.

I will be as provocative as the article.

Fact: People respect only those things which they feel belong to them.

Fact: Muslims continually talk of ``Muslim rule.`` Similar to British talk of ``British Raj.`` Obviously, Hindus will feel that they have achieved liberation from both.

Fact: People hate colonial forces. So, Hindus naturally hate Muslim and British rulers and their monuments. So Kashmiri Muslims hate Hindus and Hindu monuments.

Fact: Their are only 2 possibilities. The whole subcontinent becomes completely secular or India becomes a Hindu state. History will decide.

Once again, typical Muslim victim complex.

Blame your ills on others and live in past.

I think the author has a point. Hindu society has been increasingly playing the religious card. That portends very dark clouds for India.

Personally, I think the BJP & its ideological mentor RSS, is a dangerous party. Militant hinduism is more dangerous to India than militant islam.

Since I left India in 81, my feelings at every visit, is that the standard of living has improved but Indian society as a whole has become less secular. That; in addition to ``wall to wall people`` means more & more communal problems in the future.

Not a good time to be a minority in India (never was), but its worse now.

Do I blame the muslims that many of them wanted a country that ensured they were in the majority?--ABSOLUTELY NOT! There is no doubt in my mind that, in that respect, a muslim would be better off in Pakistan than India.

On the other side of the coin; my feeling is that the creation of Pakistan has solved one problem; but only to replaced by others. There was a civil war between Bengalis & the W.Pakistanis; people are dying of secterian killings. Social problems, combined with religion in politics has created similar social upheavals in Pakistan.

So whats the moral of the story?! Human beings are inherently divisive creatures. In theory; if every single minority in India

was deported --then hindus will cease to be hindus. Then brahmins will fight with other castes, tamilians will fight with maharashtrians, punjabis with keralites & on & on.

Its a good thing Indians have Pakistan & they have Indians. It kinda keeps the two countries from fragmenting even more. Its better to fight ``them`` than to fight with ``one of us``.

Thank God human minds are crazy--it pays my bills. Hey, we shrinks have families to feed too, you know:)

interesting article. but i have to say, every majority religious group in history has been known to destroy minority values. so the Hindus are expressing their share of destruction.

it doesn`t make it right, but it`s also wrong to be so accusatory. Just like the fact that the actions of Muslim fundamentalists shouldn`t be used to judge Islam, the action of Hindu fanatics shouldn`t be used to judge Hinduism or all Hindus.

I really think more Hindus respect Muslim cultural influences in India than you think.

I agree with you on one point though. The Indian government is not as ``secular`` and ``democratic`` as

it pretends to be.

Nothing compared to the West.

Eklavya

`I decided to drop it, thinking that the author was one of those whose ``opinions`` about India regularly show up in Pakistani newspapers`

The articles by Indians I have read in Dawn, Fridaytimes and the News have been by the following writers:

1) M J Akbar

2) A G Noorani

3) Kuldip Narain

4) S Udaykumar

Can you please elaborate on your comment ? Doesnt help to throw out allegations in the air ... especially when its some one like you Raj, someone who has the respect from the otherside.

-YLH

I am rather shocked by comments of Rsaxena, ZZ etc. This guy seems to be a patriotic Indian citizen who is concerned about his own country...

Ironic isnt it that people like Hamidm are heroes to Rsaxena, but Mr Makhfi, Farzana Versey, and even studebaker are `hypocrites` for him. Yesterday some Indian told me that `Arundati Roy` was nothing but a whore... how sad is that? To the same Indian Asma Jehangir was the angel of the first class. The only hypocrites are people like Rsaxena, who clearly are guilty of double standards.

-YLH