A Letter Home

I pity Jumping Jack when he has nothing to say but must jump around a like chicken without its head.

I showed a long article detailing the hatred and lies taught to Pakistani children at every level in Pakistani government sponsored schools. Jumping Jack shows these evidences of how Indian history being like his Pakistani crappy history.

Main *proof * is Mr. Udaykumar`s wisdom. No background on the abilities, qualifications of this Mr. Udaykumar. What evidence does this great authority and social scientist provide, we will see.

[Although the Congress tried to promote secularism after Partition, the textbooks reflected anti-Pakistan prejudices]

Show me where. Talking is cheap.

[The Indian Bharatia Janata Party (BJP) in the1990s ushered a new era of the communalism, and the textbooks reflected that trend,]

Show me. Where?

[``in Madhya Pradesh the BJP government re-wrote the entire textbooks from nursery to the post-graduate level with a Hindu emphasis.]

Show me, Mr, Udaykumar. Where?

[History books projected Hindu rulers such as Rana Pratap and Shivaji as heroes and Muslim rulers such as Aurangzeb as villains``.(Udayakumar, 1999)]

Finally Udaykumar, man who has no evidence, spills his bias. Bias is revealed as dishonesty at worst. Aurangzeb is not a villain because he was muslim ruler. He is villain because he was a bigot who brought ruin to his own dyansty by religious fanaticism and imposing hated Jazia tax on hindus. Indian history praises Akbar, Sher Shar Suri, Tipu Sultan sky high. Udaykumar wants us to love the fanatic Aurangzeb only because he was Muslim? (Ylh`s hero but ylh preers dying aids stricken feminine old men). Rana Pratap and shivaji were local heros who defended their kingdom with bravery. Making their fight only Hindu-Muslim shows Udaykumar`s mind. Udaykumar will be excellent *historian * for Pakistan because he also will hate local Sindhi and Punjabi ancestors who fought the invading armies. That is Pakistani history!

End of Jumping Jack`s argument. Finished. No more India history to expose. Desperate he turns to Pakistani`s pet subject Babri Masjid

RSS schools teaching wrong facts.

RSS SCHOOLS ARE NOT INDIAN GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS, YOU IDIOT. Did the article I showed mention what evil is taught in Paksitani Madrassas turned killer factories? It showed what books sponsored by Pakistani ``government`` teach.

End not only of Jumping Jacks history arguments also of Masjid arguments. What does the little twerp do now?

Jay is bad, gowardhan is bad, kill them.

End of Jumping Jack`s argument.

sadna

(Tell me the time and place, if you are so serious about getting rid of me.)

u tell us. id love to see what a female so stubborn and articulacandyte looks like

Also a phadda between you and yasir should make for interesting viewing

YLH:

Thank you for giving the URL to the Daudpota article. It made interesting reading.

Shammi: I agree with you about taking the emotionalism out of international discourse. Where I disagree is your assertion that only the refugges carry emotional baggage. I also disagree with the assertion that refugee emotions are by and large negative.

Shammi/YLH:

In college, I did my internship at the Oberoi`s, New Delhi. While working at the front desk I learnt that:

1. The particulars of all foreignes, except those of of Pakistan and People`s Republic of China, were supposed to be sent to the FRRO(Foreigner Regional Registration Office) within 24 hors of Check In.

2. The particulars of citizens of Pakistan and PRC were to sent to the nearest police station within 12 Hours. The Police would then send one constable to sit around in the looby and to keep an eye on them.

Well-heeled Pakis, basically that means anyone staying at The Oberoi`s, would use the Havildar as a Guide, and tip the chap a few rupees.

Re: sadna #251

``...Tell me the time and place, if you are so serious about getting rid of me...``

Outside Lahore Airport on October 2, 2002 when YLH returns to Pakistan. The `akhara` will be the Corps Commanders front lawn in Lahore Cantt. I will be the referree.

And what about Eqbal Ahmed`s article : Roots of Violence, in which he analyzes the `Khilafat` Movement.... and Gandhi`s role in it... its from the same book, or are we just selectively quoting the book Sadna aka Gowardhan?

And what about Eqbal Ahmed`s article : Roots of Violence, in which he analyzes the `Khilafat` Movement.... and Gandhi`s role in it... its from the same book, or are we just selectively quoting the book Sadna aka Gowardhan?

PS In the book that Sadna aka Gowardhan mentioned, I can see atleast 2 names who taught me History in school, one is Rubina Saigol and the other Nadeem Qaiser.

Furthermore, these authors put together a book called Pakistan Studies a Political Economy which is now the accepted text for Pakistan Studies for O levels and A Levels, and not the book that authors mention in their article.

Sadna,

Your claim was as you admit `No woman in entire NWFP` ... the article your posted spoke of `Dir and Malakand` divisions. Now Maybe you need a Geography lesson but Dir and Malakand divisions form up less than 10% of NWFP. Your lie was that no woman in NWFP was allowed to vote. If you still think you didnt lie, then I rest my case.

As for Dir and Malakand, it is like saying that somewhere in Nagaland women are still burnt alive and so entire North East India has a women`s rights problem.

Now coming to your education policy comments, no one has denied that Pakistan`s educational policy but to use that as a weapon in your anti-Pakistan propaganda is a bunch of nonsense. SImilarly India faces the same problems. Furthermore, you people dont have any integrity. Have you read Prof Hoodbhoy`s collection of Articles? He has an article about the subcontinent History, and his view is on the dot with my view of History, and his criticism of Pakistan`s history writing is same as mine... yet, I on the other hand am accused of being brainwashed by the imagined `Islamic fundamentalists`.

Have you and Mr Gowardhan had the opportunity of reading chap 5 of the same book?

http://members.tripod.com/

ylh #248

OK, you want a fight. I didnot lie about the women in NWFP. After making the statement about `not a single woman in NWFP`, I posted the Dawn article which talked about `not a single woman in xyz districts`. So how could I be lying or even intending to lie? You on the other hand denied even the Dawn article`s authenticity if I remember right.

And why are you calling me a liar now? Are you saying Gowardhan and I are lying about the article on Pakistani education policies? You are free to read it on the website I referred to and the rest of the book and contact the people named as authors to check the authenticity yourself. Calling us liars doesnot wash.

ylh, and other chowk posters, since you hate me so much, why keep using my name in your posts, repeatedly calling me bigot, twisted and talking of my biting the dust ? If the reason is that you want me to take your insults, threats and your hatred seriously, I consider you extremely cowardly for issuing these threats on an anonymous forum. Tell me the time and place, if you are so serious about getting rid of me.

Re: YLH

I think that if you travel outside of the metropolitan areas, you are required to report to police stations daily (am I wrong?). Anyway, stay in touch -- one day I will definitely visit Pakistan, and you, sir, will use your sifarish to waive the requirements for me. I am nevertheless delighted by the special offer to Indian citizens. But, I am not about to wait in line outside the Pakistan embassy in Delhi (people camp overnight there, you know?).

Re: Stuka

This article below is the sort of stuff that is unlikely to emanate from refugee politics laden with emotional baggage:

``India US debate `deliverables```

http://in.news.yahoo.com/011101/16/17z9m.html

sadna,

what do you think I am going to forget that you lied about women voting in NWFP just because you praised my post addressed to Mr Burns?

Your insults, spites, and underhanded tricks have been noted, and shall be rectified or rewarded in due course of time ... I shall have my vengeance.

-YLH

eklavya,

Point taken... sorry about the harsh words earlier. Honestly, whatever differences I might have with Tahmed and whatever I might say to him in anger, my admiration for him, and my pride in him as a Pakistani is not hidden but very well known, as is my admiration for you.

tahmed,

Sorry about the confusion. I thought your post was in response to 219 in which I tried very hard though severely curtailed by the lack of words, to explain my position on Nationalism vis a vis Globalism...

I hope now you understand where I stand on the issue of globalism and nationalism. Indeed I believe in a world of free markets and porous borders... to me the Quranic verse

`We made you in nations so that you may know each other`

is the ultimate truth.

Gowardhan: `Show me`

Sir you are the prime example of fanaticism bigotry and revisionism that Indian educational system has produced... you and your `good vs evil` view is the root cause of World`s problems...

A COMPARISON OF PAKISTANI AND INDIAN REVISIONISMS:

(We know ofcourse as usual Gowardhan will retreat)

You say Pakistani educational system has been guilty of revisionism. I say yes ... it has been.. it has tried to portray an `Islamic` image of Jinnah which has no roots in reality... but then again you attack the Pakistani educational system for creating `YLH` and because YLH says Jinnah was secular and that Pakistan should be secular. Well

time to open your eyes, YLH`s sources of information and books are neither Pakistani nor Muslim, they are British, American, or Indian.

You grow up on a diet of revisionism in an educational system one of the directors of which is a confessed Indian communal murderer of the Partition times....

You say `show me` ... I say `you show me` ... Pakistani books like `First Steps in our history` a book designed for Elementary school Kids in Pakistan has nothing but Praise for Gandhi and other Indian leaders... and that book was printed by Pakistan Military Accademy presss... can you show me one Indian book that acknowledges Jinnah`s role in the Congress from the years 1906-1920 ?FORget any fruitful analysis of the reasons behind why a once ardent nationalist turned communal. Can you show me one Indian text book which mentions that Jinanh was once known as the `Best Ambassador of Hindu Muslim Unity` and none other than your own leaders like Gandhi and nehru called him that... or were they liars... and if they were not liars then something is seriously wrong with your educational system.

You are taught to hate Pakistan. Pakistan you are told is an anamoly... but I dont care what you think of Jinnah or Pakistan... yet if we have a different perspective, we have the right to that perspective. Remember your own `Gandhi` said truth is relative.

PAKISTAN:

Yes Zia times tried to `Islamicize` Pakistani educational system, and that had perverse consequences for Pakistan ... but then your logic doesnt make sense... Zia`s educational books said Pakistan is the creation of Islam... but when I say that Pakistan`s creation has secular socio-political reasons, you say I am brainwashed by Pakistani educational system, a system which I never even attended.

The truth is that India is the least of the concerns of Pakistani books ... the problem of revisionism exists in Pakistan but it has nothing to do with India... it has to do with Pakistan itself...

It is perhaps best summed up in Isa Daudpota`s article `Joint Indo-Pak History textbook`

http://www.chowk.com/bin/showa.cgi?qdaudpota_sep2600



QUOTE:

History has been used to churn out a certain myth about the struggle thatled to the creation of Pakistan. Though leaders of All-India Muslim League or Mr M.A. Jinnah never used the word ``Ideology of Pakistan``, a new subject has been introduced in the schools and colleges of Pakistan just to propagate the official distortions of history.



THIS SUMS UP THE PROBLEM WITH PAKISTAN`S REVISIONISM ... Pakistan`s revisionism is self destructive and not `India obsessed`. We have conjured up an `ideology` of Pakistan which Jinnah and his ilk didnot have in mind. THIS IS EXACTLY what YLH HAS BEEN SAYING! On the contrary, essentially there is no difference between the officially propagated view of History by Pakistan and the view of History that GOWARDHAN adheres to .. the only difference is of values... Zia`s Pakistani Ideology holds Islam to be the Most perfect system ... Gowardhan`s view holds Islam to be the most negative destructive force... Both views are extreme and wrong, just like their essentially common view of Ideology of Pakistan.

INDIA

Now let us come to India:

India`s revisionism is essentially of `Anti-Pakistan` and `Anti-Muslim Variety` variety.



Although the Congress tried to promote secularism after Partition, the textbooks reflected anti-Pakistan prejudices. The Indian Bharatia Janata Party (BJP) in the1990s ushered a new era of the communalism, and the textbooks reflected that trend, ``in Madhya Pradesh the BJP government re-wrote the entire textbooks from nursery to the post-graduate level with a Hindu emphasis. History books projected Hindu rulers such as Rana Pratap and Shivaji as heroes and Muslim rulers such as Aurangzeb as villains``.(Udayakumar, 1999)



And Hindu `Madrassahs` teach Violence and Bigotry too From Hindustan Times:



``.thousands of Rashtriya Swayam Sewak schools are teaching a brand of history, especially where it concerns the Babri masjid demolition and the

minorities, which does not always apply either an objective methodology or a factual historical paradigm. Instead, it is loaded with crass communal overtones. Clearly, the sole purpose of this reinterpretation of historical facts is to indoctrinate and poison young minds with a prejudiced vision of the past. For instance, the textbook curriculum of the Vidya Bharati AkhilBharatiya Shiksha Sansthan, which is affiliated with the RSS, has claimed that the Babri masjid was not a mosque because Muslims `have never till today offered namaaz there`. Other fantastic revelations state that from1528 to 1914, 350,000 `devotees of Lord Ram have laid down their lives to liberate the Ram temple` and that foreigners invaded Sri Ramjanambhoomi notless then 77 times. In terms of the contemporary history of modern India, the textbooks state that November 2, 1990, will be inscribed in black letters `because on that day the then Chief Minister, by ordering the police to shoot unarmed kar sevaks, massacred hundreds of them.` All this, of course, is complete nonsense - packed with lies and untruths.`` (The Hindustan Times, June 6, 2000)



And ladies and gentlemen hence we have people like Jay and their bigoted Hindu fanatic posts such as

` That is incorrect, the fact is that I dont care a damn about pakistan. But I like paki bashing,

and that is all. I usually do not make any personal remarks, it is invariably on the monstrocity called pakistan, and mostly caricatures of ideas. Now let us talk of ramadan, and there is talk of stopping the bombing during ramadan. This a western notion, where the religious festival of christmas is enjoyment and merry making,relaxing and getting drunk. Ramadan is the opposite, it is the time of masochist torture, starting with no male- female sex, to fasting and sleep diprevation`

Notice how Islam is almost always identified with Pakistan... Indeed, more than Pakistan it is Jay`s hatred for Islam that is speaking. I always said, as Jinnah himself proclaimed manytimes, TNT is not a desire but a fact, a fact which is imposed on us by people like Jay, RSS, and the Hindu fanatics.

In order to have peace in the world we have to kill them all, we have to kill Bin Laden, we have to kill Qazi Husain Ahmed, we have to kill Maulana Sami ul Haq, we have to kill Naqshbandi, we have to kill Gowardhan, and we definitely have to kill Jay.

And then Humanity will have a shot at peace.

-YLH

Fundamentalists adopt Gandhian Methods:

We all know that civil disobedience is a disease rampant on the streets of Pakistan, now another facet has been included.... `Qazi Husain Ahmed of Jamaat e Islami issues call for boycott of US made goods` ... and the Drama unfolds.. after all for the Jamaat e Islami, Gandhi was much more of a religious figure than anyone else.