In Search of the Moderate Muslim

Romair #416

….well said….

Reply #: 454

Romair

``Do or Die For the Pakistani Religious Parties``

``The current uprising of the religious parties is thus now, a battle for their own influence, and dare I say survival, then a battle for the survival of Pakistan.``

Would you go further and discuss this little jihad/power struggle within the ranks and how it falls along economic lines? Who are they?

Can you give us a demographic? Rich? Poor? Middle Class? Or, are there no combined, meaningful economic factors at all? Thanks

...why is romair obsessed with india?...most of his drivel on chowk, including this article, is focused on india...why oh why this inferiority complex?...

Sorry, Eklavya, one more at:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/nov/07gp.htm

Eklavya, I found something for you at,

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/nov/07bangla.htm

Ekalavya #438,

``Those problems, if any, should be resolved at the local level, along with the cooperation of progressive Bangladeshis. Whether your report is true or not, such broadcasts serve to sensationalize religious issues, and create resentment where resentment may not be entirely justified. No one is helped in the process.``

Dear Eklavya, this is sad and duplicity, especially when it is coming from you. If you do not know what is happening in Bangladesh aftermath of the election, you should keep quiet. There are people in Calcutta, whose realtives are the victim of these latest atrocities in Bangladesh, you should go and talk to these people. How come you can see every single problem that exists in India? but bestow your saintly advice to someone who is merely reporting what is really happening in a neighbouring country, by which West Bengal is continuously affected? Apparently the situation this time around is much worse than 1992 riot after Babri Musjid. The problem will not go away since people were not paying any attention, when the problem was in its bud. While you constantly fight(in cyber space) to the causes of minorities of India (which is admirable), should you not be senstive also to those people who are being constantly told to go to their country (India)? The least you could do is to shut your mouth since you do not have any power to remove the pains of neither the minority muslims in India, nor the Hindus in Bangladesh. Hasn`t Babu done the same thing which Farzana did? Pointing out the problems, then how Babu`s report becomes a sensational news while Farzana`s is a case worthy your support? See the duplicity?

Regards.

Question for anybody:

I am looking for information on the Mutazilites - who they were, what they believed, what happened to them and why, history, etc.

Can anybody help?

Zafar

PM # 459

Dear PM,

I agree with Bell, and by implication with Weber. Like communism, capitalism too fails to understand the logic and the power of religion. However, Bell takes too passive a view of religion. ``Religion as thread`` metaphor can only take us so far. Religion in the hands of ``religious people`` becomes an active force. It is clear that religion can not be ignored anymore. The key questions now, IMO, PM, are who will control this force, and to what uses this force will be put.

Re romair

``Compare that with the number of seats religious parties win in the three countries surrouding Pakistan, i.e. India, Afghanistan, and Iran.

Comparing India with those three other countries is quite a disingenous sleight of the keyboard. While proportionally the RSS and Shiv Sena may have won more than the JI/JU folks in Pakistan, that is far outweighed by the fact that India is not a `Hindu` Republic while all the other three countries are officially religious polities. I don`t think that there is much of a difference between the bigotry of JI, the IRP of Iran and the RSS/Sena. But what makes a crucial difference is the arena: India is a secular Republic where there are a lot of bigots while the other three countries are theocratic polities with some(Iran), few (Afghanistan) and many (Pakistan) secularists active in the field. The compasrison will be valid when Pakistan aborgates its apartheid election laws, Iran selects a Parsi Chief Justice, and Afghanistan becomes civilized. Until then, India is in a different league whether we like it or not.

Zafar Al Talib # 464

``Mundaa, my knowledge of this is from a rediff article which argued against all subsidies, including the Haj subsidy. (No other country gives one, I think, so why should India have to “buy” the loyalty of a section of its citizens?)``

I also remember having read this article,wherein

the writer tells us about this subsidy business

which was started by Narasimha Rao,after the

destruction of the Babri Masjid to appease the

muslims in general and the Members of the All India Haj Board in particular,who were pocketing

a hefty commission out of each person`s subsidy.

Regards.

Sattar2 sahib,

[Of course, those who have disagreed in the past were declared heretics and apostates and were chased out of their homes … so yes indeed, all “Sunni Muslims” agree with him here].

please name one classical Muslim scholar who was of the opinion that the insulter of the Prophet alayhisalatosalam was not to be killed?! On THIS issue no scholar has disagreed! Ibn Taymiyya, Ibn Hazm and a few others ( a handful out of 1400 years of scholars!!) disagreed with the Sunni orthodoxy on OTHER issues but on this one they AGREED. Ibn Taymiyya even wrote a book on it, ``Al-Sayf al Maslul `Ala Shaatim ar-Rasul`` ! Name one Shi`ite scholar who disagreed on *this * matter? Name one of the Muslim philosophers who disagreed on *this * issue?!

The fact remains that ONLY modernists like yourself-- a a tiny, insignificant minority-- disagree on this issue.

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PM....459

Thanks for the link.

Actual the claim by secular democracies about separation of church & state is not correct.Today,the state continues its assault on church(generic use) in matters of abortion,homosexuality,transplant,blood donation,seat belt use,smoking,liquor sale/purchase restrictions,drug use,polygamy etc etc..actually the list can be very long.It is amazing how we have been anaesthetised by the ``naturalness`` of this all.

.

Are Amish or Quakers ``backward`` barbarians who want to take their society to the brass age?Are their womenfolk & children persecuted & brainwashed that they must dress-up like muslims & are forbidden to use any ``modern`` gadget or machine---and horror of horrors!right in the midst of plenty:where freedom reigns(these days is reined in)supreme & the riches rain so much that no humor is left dry anymore.

Just squeezing out my anguish,nothing serious here folks!

karakoram...461

Thanks for the smileys.

No,that is biblical terminology in english.Iblees & Shaitaan would have been more appropriate.

Others can substitute Rakhasish,Ahraman or mephistopheles.

Wiccans or Satanists can say saint or angel.

I just cannot think of a term Atheist would use because if The One is not there then The Other should also not exist.I guess for them there is no such thing as good or evil-----just relativism.

And that precisely is the idea.To bring up the subject & keep it alive & let one continue to analyse & interpret....in private.

The Question is the Answer!

Thanks again.

to all :

please read this article:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/1100ghazali-truth.html

#460 me

``Methinks if the the situation had been turned around, that is if it were the case of

HINDUS killing SIKHS (the religious identities are essential here), there would have

been prosecutions and punishments. So much for indian secularism.``

What garbage! I meant SIKHS killing HINDUS of course! As punishment i probably should read everything sarwar and Lajwanti post..