Benazir Bhutto in Sacramento

Bong-Dongs:

``I remember Mr Hamdani having some doubts about the Javed Nasir - SGPC link. The following from the latest TFT might help:``

Javed Nasir had no connection with SGPC(Shiromani Gurudwara Prabandhak Commitee). He was made President of PGPC (Pakistan Gurudwara Prabandhak Commitee)This whole idea of PGPC came from one crook called GS Dhillon who lives in Washington DC. There has been some progress though in co-ordination with SGPC in recent past, hopefully improving the situation for Sikh pilgrims.

Sameer:

, I would grant you, stuka, shankar and at least 500 other intelligent Indians honorary citizenship of Pakistan and kick out 500mullahs to Afghanistan.

The feeling is very much mutual janaab, about you and and many others.

THIS WHAT YOUR NEIGHBOURS THINK OF YOU PAKIS & MUSLIM-iSLAM IN PARTICULAR.

SWEET TALK MAY TEMPORARILY MAY PUT YOU TO SLEEP,BUT YOU MAY NOT WAKE UP ALIVE .TRY TO LISTEN TO SOME UNPALATABLE ,HARSH,HURTFULL NOISE SOMETIME ,IT MAY KNOCK YOU TO YOUR SENSES



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[] Religion and civilisation - II Hindu



INDEPENDENCE BROUGHT some relief, but the age-old issues have yet to be resolved in this era of globalisation. A tradition-bound society, with its multi-faceted personality, is still struggling to reconcile tradition with modernity. True, India adopted a democratic and secular Co...

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Sat, Nov 03, 2001





[] Arab Muhameed? on Religion and civilisation - II [] Lal Salaam on Religion and civilisation - II [] INDEPENDEN CE BROUGHT? on Religion and civilisation - II [] peter_repeater on Religion and civilisation - II [] Only Koran on Religion and civilisation - II [] Tricky Arab Muslim on Religion and civilisation - II [] Sonic on Religion and civilisation - II [] iluvindia on Religion and civilisation - II [] Aditya on Religion and civilisation - II [] why? on Religion and civilisation - II

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Sat, Nov 03, 2001





[] Arab Muhameed? comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

Muslims lie! Muslim cheat. Muslims invade some one else country & kill people of that land but they want to keep Mecca as pure muslim land!

Pakistan - pure land of Arab islam!

Hasan the muslim from Arab Mecca lies, cheats, and forgets history of India. As a muslim he can think only Baber - holy Baber. For him history of India starts from a muslim. Hassan is a sleek jhiadi blames only Hindus. Indirectly what he says is submit to Mecca islam & muslim.

He blames Hindus for all the trubles in India - typical muslim invader lier. He should not blame Hindus for every thing. Hindus are not the one going to Mecca and claiming as Hindu holy land saying jhiad. .

Hasan the sleek muslim lier wants to twist the history of India as a typical muslim who lies saying Allha is the only God anf Mecca Prophet is the only prophet and Koran is the only book!

Intolerent imperialist racist muslim invader terrorists terrorized India for 900 years.

.

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[] Lal Salaam comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

create what the historian Romila Thapar characterises as `syndicated, semitised Hinduism`

Sounds like she is talking about the commie pinko pseudo secularism that she espouses.

Hasan carefully skips over the first Indian holocaust, the Islamic invasion of the subcontinent. The numbers of lives decimated and the wide spread destruction of the Hindu cultural heritage in the North is unparalleled. The second holocaust before and after partition pales in comparison.

It speaks volumes to the resilency of the Hindu civilization that it managed to survive the initial millennium-long onslaught, unlike other classic civilizations like the Persians or the Egyptians or Babylonian/fertile crescent civilizations.

Hasan needs to take a long hard look at Pakistan and Bangladesh to understand why the secularism he clings to has nothing to do with Muslims or a ``syncretic`` society, but everything to do with the Hindu culture and civilization being dominant in India.

There is an unfortunate backlash among many Hindus because of the unceasing hostility of Muslim Pakistan, and the belligerent uncompromising attitude of many Indian Muslims. Add to this unsavory mix ``Hindu`` pseudo-seculars who are only happy to shrilly condemn any minor Hindu infraction, while sticking their heads in the sand at Muslim (and in many cases, Christian) anti-secular behaviour. Post Your Response | View Responses | Coffeehouse| Forward





[] INDEPENDEN CE BROUGHT? comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

INDEPENDENCE BROUGHT what? Freedom for muslim Pakistan to form islamic republic Jhiadi state , Hindu cleansing in Pakistan area, later in Bengladash, then in Kashmir! India got struck with islamic civil law, jhiadis who can order Indians what movies to watch, where to go, what book to read, tell Indians where ever Mecca invader Baber walked becomes Mecca holy place and watch Pakistan flags fly in mini Pakistan! Last one Arab Mecca muslim telling Indians how to think and how to obey Arab Mecca.

Muslim Pakistan wants again islamic conquest of India and part of new muslim empire! Pakistan the new Baber!

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[] peter_repeater comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

oracle: the use of the handle ``Mushirul Hassan`` does not prove that the author is blowing his own horn. Moreover, the author spells his name as `Hasan` and not `Hassan`.Post Your Response | View Responses | Coffeehouse| Forward





[] Only Koran comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

Muslims in India - `` A tradition-bound society`` obey only Arab Mecca Koran not Indian constitution.

Only Arab Mecca Muhameed and Baber can tell us what muslims can do.

- A tradition-bound society

Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and Taliban have - A tradition-bound society & multi-faceted personality,

Muslims are - A tradition-bound society - only islam only Allha.

``era of globalisation`` Koran belives in it.. Mecca, Pakistan and muslims in India belives in it.

That is why muslims in India hack Hindu priests head in Hindu Temples of Kashmir!

That is the reason muslim Pakistani killed millions of Hindus in Bengladash before the war . - holy war

Globalization of Allha is good for all - jhiad - holy war.

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[] Tricky Arab Muslim comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

``India`s agony over religion is not yet over. The sacred rivers flow from their sources up in the Himalayas, but their water is contaminated by the bodies killed in caste and Hindu-Muslim violence. The road to the sacred sites is wide open, but it is fouled by the casteist and communal publicists. The bell rings in the temples and the mosques, but the

politics of hate has reached their precincts. ``

Arab muslims in India never do any thing wrong.

All the evil in India are due to Hindus of India.

There is no blood flow in Pakistan! because ? Arab Islamic state of Pakistan! They killed Hindus & kicked out Hindus and no Hindus are in Pakistan. Pakistan is a islamic republic.

So get rid of all Indian Hindus from India. & make it as Arab Mecca Islamic state of India..Arab Mecca Islam is secular & only muslim man is a secular person.

Only Baber from Mecca. Only Arab Allha! Only Arab Muhameed India only for muslims like Pakistan! That is real path to modern secularism.

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[] Sonic comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

Mr. Why

are you serious ?

India was, is and will be secular.

We gave

so much understanding and patience to

all religions and people - only problem

is this is not a one-way-street dude.

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[] iluvindia from west columbia, SC comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

i second what Aditya said..and also we want true ``secularism`` not just lip service..tell me why are Muslims first to oppose Uniform Civil code. why don`t they realize Country comes first. religion should be within the four walls of their home.

Learn to love country. One should be proud of being an Indian first and then Muslim /hIndu etc etc

Jai Hind !!Post Your Response| View Responses| Coffeehouse| Forward





[] Aditya from West Lafayette IN comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

Mr. Why

You should read well before you comment. Nobody here is against secularism. We are pointing to the distortion of historical facts. Shame on you dude.Post Your Response| View Responses| Coffeehouse| Forward





[] why? from themoon comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

Can`t see anything wrong with Mushirul Hasan`s well-written article. Guess the Sangh parivar has so succesfully brain-washed Hindus into this feeling of insecurity in their own country that they can`t stand anything but the most right-wing Muslim bashing stuff.

Shame on these guys! Secularism is India`s weapon against Pakistan. Use it well instead of breeding revolt in India by continually blaming Muslims for everything.Post Your Response| View Responses| Coffeehouse| Forward





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[] Religion and civilisation - II Hindu



INDEPENDENCE BROUGHT some relief, but the age-old issues have yet to be resolved in this era of globalisation. A tradition-bound society, with its multi-faceted personality, is still struggling to reconcile tradition with modernity. True, India adopted a democratic and secular Co...

Posted by: Mushirul Hassan| [14] Comments | Post Comment | Forward





Reader Comments



Fri, Nov 02, 2001





[] Aditya on Religion and civilisation - II [] anti-Hindu newspaper on Religion and civilisation - II [] oracle on Religion and civilisation - II [] TrueIndia! on Religion and civilisation - II

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[] Aditya from West Lafayette IN comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

Ah! That reads like a passage straight from the history textbooks written by the despicable marxistsPost Your Response| View Responses| Coffeehouse| Forward





[] anti-Hindu newspaper comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

i am not surprised that this crappy article has appeared in the anti-hindu Hindu newspaper....it has commie editor like N.Ram...why bother reading it??Post Your Response | View Responses | Coffeehouse| Forward





[] oracle comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

What a complete sanitization of Muslim atrocities against Hindus during Mughal rule! Why does the author not mention forced conversion and massacres of Hindus and widespeard temple destruction during this time period?

If Islam was ``quick to adapt itself to the local cultural and social milieu`` than why did they commit these atrocities? Islam never adapted or contributed to Hindu civilization, its goal was to wipe out all remmants of non-Islamic culture, as described by VS Naipal in his book ``Excursions among the converted peoples``

Furthermore, this article is a perfect example of Huntington`s ``clash of civilations``. How appropriate that an article written by a muslim living in India seeks to distort Indian history by leaving out any fact which would cast Islam in a bad light. I suggest that the author read Rushdie`s essay in the NY Times and encourage introspection among muslims rather than recreating Indian history.

Incidentally, I love how the author toots his own horn by posting his own articles on Sulekha.

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[] TrueIndia! comments on Religion and civilisation - II (Hindu)

True India adopted terrorist Mecca Allha Muhameed Koran in Indian constitution. Mecca Arab Allha and Muhameed only ! India is a slave of Arab civilization and land of cowards!

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tahmedsaab

even dressed ugly she came across as impressive with her now humble and friendly now im something attitude..also she spoke very propah..clipped accent..charming see thee...but ure right about her being a bad leader...sad no, how with everything on her side, she still screwed us over so bad when she could have made such a big difference? id personally love to see her fry (stay away soyaoil)

Reply #: 10 Zico

``[Sorry dyslexic one, thats where you just showed your backside to everybody, because I wrote it all myself, which makes you pathetic and a fool.``]]



Zico .

JUST ZIPP IT, ZICO or ZIPPO

I can sue according to American with Disability Act1991 you moron

And Dyslexic Happen to be your President ,idiot

Some Talented Dyslexics

Inventors/Engineers/

Scientists: Albert Einstein

Thomas Edison

Alexander Graham Bell



Artists: Leonardo da Vinci

Walt Disney



Military/Political

Strategists: General George Patton

Winston Churchill

Woodrow Wilson

Performers: Cher

Whoopi Goldberg

Danny Glover



Athletes: Greg Louganis

Bruce Jenner

Jackie Stewart

Having dyslexia won`t make every dyslexic a genius

Re; ylh

blah blah blah...more if-and-but arguments

ylh;

No need to apologise. Pakistanis are having some trouble facing the truth these days. Its just a little fun, anyway. You have got to have a sense of humour, surely, being a Paki in the USA today?

Bhardwaj (illiterate)#

``But you plagarised it from posting in SULEKHA ,which would have been alright ,if you had given the due credit of copy rigt or acknowledgement``

Sorry dyslexic one, thats where you just showed your backside to everybody, because I wrote it all myself, which makes you pathetic and a fool.

just kidding Pakistanis

Too bad! We are still obsessed with hero worship, waiting for our hero coming on a horseback and delivering us from our miseries. Today he is Ataturk wannabe, tomorrow a feudal queen. We should support institutions of people power rather than individuals.

Shammi: Sometime I wish you were a Pakistani. Your posts make lot more sense than utopian dreamers of my homeland. If I had a way, I would grant you, stuka, shankar and at least 500 other intelligent Indians honorary citizenship of Pakistan and kick out 500mullahs to Afghanistan.

Re: Asim Hayat:

``...IRONIC THAT SHE HERSEFL WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ``TALIBAN``...``

I do not believe that any civilian PM of Pakistan has ever had control over the ISI or Pakistan`s nuclear/Kashmir policies. You can blame Bhutto for a lot of the things, but perhaps not the Taleban. Even Musharraf seems not to have full control over the ISI -- did you read the Washington Times` story?

I remember Mr Hamdani having some doubts about the Javed Nasir - SGPC link. The following from the latest TFT might help:

``General Javed Nasir is out of Auqaf after a disastrous tenure and an abortive gamble with the setting up of Pakistan`s own Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee.``

Re : Ras Siddiqui

Ms Benazir Bhutto has many duppata - carriers, in the many Pakistani men who admire her and support her. You, Sir are simply one of them despite having been duped, tricked, deceived, robbed of your dignity and honour by an embezzler par excellence. and that too a woman. Granted she is much smarter than her supporters, but then again someone has to support her, someone has to lavish her unmerited praise by writing exaggerated tributes, someone has to ask her to come back and take a crap all over them. Better them than me, Sir!

That is the reason that the Pakistanis at Stanford for a chnage became organised enough to arrange for a ``lifting of the veil behind the monstraous face``. I think the Stanford american community went away with a better persepective of our first Islamic national swindler(ess?). Thye certainly felt curious as to why there was a barrage of questions being directed against the duppata clad (ex-miniskirts wearing fashion chic of the 70`s in Ney York), and those too by Pakistanis.

ON TOP OF ALL HER SHAMELESS SELF GLORIFICATION AND DENIGRATION OF MY COUNTRY AS AN EVIL PLACE GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT FOR HARBOURING TERRORISTS SHE HAD THE UNMITIGATING TEMERITY TO SUGGEST THAT SHE HERSELF WAS THE TARGET OF TWO ASSASINATION ATTEMPTS BY THE TALIBANS. IRONIC THAT SHE HERSEFL WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ``TALIBAN``. IRONIC THAT SHE MANAGES TO DUCK HER QUESTIONS OF HER INEPTITUDE IN REFORMING THE COUNTRY FOR THE BETTER TWO TIMES, NOT ONCE. IRONIC THAT EDUCATED FOOLS LIKE YOU STILL WOULD LOVE TO LOOK UP TO THIS, THIS DEMAGOGUE TO WREAK HAVOC ON THE REMNANT WEALTH WITHIN PAKISTANI EXCHEQUER, IRONIC THAT YOU WOULD LET HER LOOSE IN ARRANGING FOR GENOCIDE OF A PEOPLE, WHO ARE NOT AS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE ENCONSED IN A COMFORTBALE LIFESTYLE MILES AWAY IN SAN JOSE. IRONIC THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN HOW THE COUNTRY SHOULD BE RUN, FROM THE COMFORTS OF YOUR LIVING ROOM. IRONIC THAT YOU CAN STILL PRAISE HER AFTER ALL THE EVIDENCE IN SWITZERLAND, AND HER MILLION DOLLAR PURCHASES OF DIAMOND NECKLACES FROM HARRODS. SHE IS NO DIFFERENT THAN YOUR LOHAR MIAN. ALL THESE CROOKS NEED TO BE PURGED, from the country.

PAKISTAN WOULD RATHER HAVE A KEMAL ATA TURK WANNABE AT ITS HELM THAN FEUDAL DYNASTY ``LOSER``.

Sincerely,

Asim

P.S How did you benefit from Bhutto`s rule! I know we all suffered during her times, despite my elevated expectations as a young man that i attributed to this notorious ``daughter of the East``.

RE: Reply #: 90 ylh

``If you really think we Pakistanis are obsessed with you guys and not the other way around, what are you doing on this board... and why is it that there are Indians on every Pakistani site, but very few pakistanis ever go to Indian sites?

There is only one nation in the subcontinent which is obsessed with the other, and that aint Pakistan.``

Believe me, I was out of all boards on the net until Kargil which brings me back to my contention that you guys have to stop biting when we Indians are not looking. It`s not nice. ;-).

It seems to me that your feudal mentality of wanting to own everything around you will not go away even with education. The net isn`t your grandfather`s property. Why don`t you go back to your village or wherever you come from in Pakistan and ply your penchant for ownership on the Haris or whatever. It ain`t gonna work on the net.

YLH:

Have you read the analysis in the Friday Times, the one by Khalid Ahmed, specifically where he talks about the ISI brigadier involved in the Bombay bomb blasts, and the resultant current residence of Dawood Ibrahim in Karachi.

Would you care to refute that analysis with facts that you may have. You can take the easy way out and give me 10 gaalis, but I am talking about a specific article, in a Pakistani magazine. If you like, I can post the relevant portion on Chowk, or need be the whole article.

Re: YLH

These are confusing times. Two years ago, when the crisis was not grave, I criticized Musharraf`s takeover. Now, that that crisis HAS become grave, and in large part due to unaccountable ISI`s meddling in Afghanistan , Musharraf is indeed the lesser of two evils - dictatorship vs. fundamentalist takeover. But, make no mistake, it was a lack of democracy that brought Pakistan to the current impasse, in the first place.

Today, there was an article in the Washington Times that the White House knows about the help that the certain agencies of the Govt. of Pakistan still continue to give Taleban. (http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20011102-22061210.htm)

That is the reason why Musharraf has no choice -- he HAS to kow-tow to the US, or else make Pakistan a US target. This is the end result of bankrupt foreign policy authored by those in uniform. They have mortgaged Pakistan`s sovereignty for the promise of an unreliable, stubborn ally. A democratic regime would have not punched above its weight, and would have kept Pakistan`s national interest in consideration, not some rogue agency`s. Today, Pakistan is at an abyss. It is Musharraf or ?. There are no institutions as a fall back option. That is why, even though the person of Musharraf may be good, the Office of President (former CE) is is in disrepute. What may appear to be expedient now, may very well sow the seeds for a disaster tomorrow. That is why I am so uncompromising on basic representative democracy. ONCE THIS CRISIS IS OVER, THE US MUST PRESSURE MUSHARRAF TO RESTORE DEMOCRACY. HE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BACK OUT OF HIS OCTOBER 2002 COMMITMENTS.

Arrested Psycho,

Even before you can see inside anyone else, you have revealed to us all what lies inside you - absolute filth.

You give psychos a bad name. The only explanation you need offering is one for your nauseating existence. Spare us your ``expertise.`` There might be a collective puke on Chowk.